TY for the patch

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

@Grimjack.8130 said:

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Like @Grimjack.8130 stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

this is partly cuz how weaver is designed: you get locked out of 3rd weapon skills and quick attune swaps. i tried bringing this up on ele forums but most everyone was pretty upset by this pov.

weaver has been used effectively in the 3 most recent mATs. anyone who says weaver is bad/useless is spouting nonsense

i play FA and fire weaver as my off class and i can assure u neither of them require u to "look 30s into the future". on FA especially, u have instant access to your burst. 0 clairvoyance required

well ur also not the best ele in the game and ur also not playing sword lr or LR at all apparently so player skill issue

i think we can all agree that the players who make it to mAT finals/semifinals are of relatively equal skill. the fact that u were able to compete as a weaver against players of equal skill as you is undeniable evidence that weaver doesn't take much more skill to play than other meta builds

unless u claim to be 5 times better than every other top player in the game, in which case we have a different problem

[Grimjack.8130]

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

@Grimjack.8130 said:

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Like @Grimjack.8130 stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

this is partly cuz how weaver is designed: you get locked out of 3rd weapon skills and quick attune swaps. i tried bringing this up on ele forums but most everyone was pretty upset by this pov.

weaver has been used effectively in the 3 most recent mATs. anyone who says weaver is bad/useless is spouting nonsense

i play FA and fire weaver as my off class and i can assure u neither of them require u to "look 30s into the future". on FA especially, u have instant access to your burst. 0 clairvoyance required

well ur also not the best ele in the game and ur also not playing sword lr or LR at all apparently so player skill issue

i think we can all agree that the players who make it to mAT finals/semifinals are of relatively equal skill. the fact that u were able to compete as a weaver against players of equal skill as you is undeniable evidence that weaver doesn't take much more skill to play than other meta builds

unless u claim to be 5 times better than every other top player in the game, in which case we have a different problem

yea the skillgap of engi players can be so huge but and oh for revs oh the difference between players is gigantic at times but oh no no no for any other spec in the game it takes 0 skill so the skill gap is very very smol ty forums

[Arheundel.6451]

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

@Grimjack.8130 said:

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Like @Grimjack.8130 stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

this is partly cuz how weaver is designed: you get locked out of 3rd weapon skills and quick attune swaps. i tried bringing this up on ele forums but most everyone was pretty upset by this pov.

weaver has been used effectively in the 3 most recent mATs. anyone who says weaver is bad/useless is spouting nonsense

i play FA and fire weaver as my off class and i can assure u neither of them require u to "look 30s into the future". on FA especially, u have instant access to your burst. 0 clairvoyance required

well ur also not the best ele in the game and ur also not playing sword lr or LR at all apparently so player skill issue

i think we can all agree that the players who make it to mAT finals/semifinals are of relatively equal skill. the fact that u were able to compete as a weaver against players of equal skill as you is undeniable evidence that weaver doesn't take much more skill to play than other meta builds

unless u claim to be 5 times better than every other top player in the game, in which case we have a different problem

Facts can represent a simple addition like 1+1=2....on the other hand we have opinions like 1+1=0.

Facts here are shown by the distribution of professions in game....opinions instead are based on personal experience...a moot point.

The relation between effort and reward should be equal among professions.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

@Grimjack.8130 said:

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Like @Grimjack.8130 stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

this is partly cuz how weaver is designed: you get locked out of 3rd weapon skills and quick attune swaps. i tried bringing this up on ele forums but most everyone was pretty upset by this pov.

weaver has been used effectively in the 3 most recent mATs. anyone who says weaver is bad/useless is spouting nonsense

i play FA and fire weaver as my off class and i can assure u neither of them require u to "look 30s into the future". on FA especially, u have instant access to your burst. 0 clairvoyance required

well ur also not the best ele in the game and ur also not playing sword lr or LR at all apparently so player skill issue

i think we can all agree that the players who make it to mAT finals/semifinals are of relatively equal skill. the fact that u were able to compete as a weaver against players of equal skill as you is undeniable evidence that weaver doesn't take much more skill to play than other meta builds

unless u claim to be 5 times better than every other top player in the game, in which case we have a different problem

Facts can represent a simple addition like 1+1=2....on the other hand we have opinions like 1+1=0.

Facts here are shown by the distribution of professions in game....opinions instead are based on personal experience...a moot point.

The relation between effort and reward should be equal among professions.

no it shouldnt, its fine to have hard classes, its fine to have easy classes.It means the game will bring in more players, and be over all more fun for more players.Problem is where low effort classes/build beat hard classes with no effort no matter how well you play.In general if you are good at X class. you should be on the same page against Y class if both of you play it well enoughbut it is what it is.

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

@Grimjack.8130 said:

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Like @Grimjack.8130 stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

this is partly cuz how weaver is designed: you get locked out of 3rd weapon skills and quick attune swaps. i tried bringing this up on ele forums but most everyone was pretty upset by this pov.

weaver has been used effectively in the 3 most recent mATs. anyone who says weaver is bad/useless is spouting nonsense

i play FA and fire weaver as my off class and i can assure u neither of them require u to "look 30s into the future". on FA especially, u have instant access to your burst. 0 clairvoyance required

well ur also not the best ele in the game and ur also not playing sword lr or LR at all apparently so player skill issue

i think we can all agree that the players who make it to mAT finals/semifinals are of relatively equal skill. the fact that u were able to compete as a weaver against players of equal skill as you is undeniable evidence that weaver doesn't take much more skill to play than other meta builds

unless u claim to be 5 times better than every other top player in the game, in which case we have a different problem

Facts can represent a simple addition like 1+1=2....on the other hand we have opinions like 1+1=0.

Facts here are shown by the distribution of professions in game....opinions instead are based on personal experience...a moot point.

The relation between effort and reward should be equal among professions.

I have no idea what your first two sentences are supposed to convey. They do not support your 3rd sentence in any way; in fact, they undermine it

The relation between reward and effort is essentially equal, which is what my point was--a point you have failed to refute. The fact that in mAT finals, where players are of relatively equal skill, people are able to play weaver with the same efficacy as other classes proves that it does not require any more skill than other classes/builds

[Stand The Wall.6987]

people are able to play weaver with the same efficacy as other classes proves that it does not require any more skill than other classes/builds

uh, no. there is no correlation between efficacy and skill for any class. in fact, its all over the place. necro i can facetank auto attack ftw, on mes i blow up in 3 sec, weav i can press 100 buttons while the other guy can press 10 and we could end up both having the same amount of hp left.

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

people are able to play weaver with the same efficacy as other classes proves that it does not require any more skill than other classes/builds

uh, no. there is no correlation between efficacy and skill for any class. in fact, its all over the place. necro i can facetank auto attack ftw, on mes i blow up in 3 sec, weav i can press 100 buttons while the other guy can press 10 and we could end up both having the same amount of hp left.

you are not following my logic. if two players of equal skill were to fight, the one playing the more difficult build will lose. However, we see players of equal skill (mAT finalists) playing weaver alongside builds like shiro rene. Guess what? the weaver wins this matchup.

Conclusion: weaver is not harder to play than other meta builds

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

people are able to play weaver with the same efficacy as other classes proves that it does not require any more skill than other classes/builds

uh, no. there is no correlation between efficacy and skill for any class. in fact, its all over the place. necro i can facetank auto attack ftw, on mes i blow up in 3 sec, weav i can press 100 buttons while the other guy can press 10 and we could end up both having the same amount of hp left.

you are not following my logic. if two players of equal skill were to fight, the one playing the more difficult build will lose. However, we see players of equal skill (mAT finalists) playing weaver alongside builds like shiro rene. Guess what? the weaver wins this matchup.

Conclusion: weaver is not harder to play than other meta builds

We get what you are saying, but weaver is made for dueling, while shiro rene is not. ergo, weaver of equal skill SHOULD win the 1v1.

[Noz.4650]

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

people are able to play weaver with the same efficacy as other classes proves that it does not require any more skill than other classes/builds

uh, no. there is no correlation between efficacy and skill for any class. in fact, its all over the place. necro i can facetank auto attack ftw, on mes i blow up in 3 sec, weav i can press 100 buttons while the other guy can press 10 and we could end up both having the same amount of hp left.

you are not following my logic. if two players of equal skill were to fight, the one playing the more difficult build will lose. However, we see players of equal skill (mAT finalists) playing weaver alongside builds like shiro rene. Guess what? the weaver wins this matchup.

Conclusion: weaver is not harder to play than other meta builds

Sorry but none of this makes any sense. The more skilled the players, the less build difficulty matters in the outcome of a particular matchup. At a certain level, it's more about "theory" of the matchup and playing the player, not build execution. A lot of low execution or conceptually easy builds will overperform at lower levels but drop off at higher levels for that reason, and if an easy build also performs well at higher levels, it's usually not because it is easy.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:you are not following my logic. if two players of equal skill were to fight, the one playing the more difficult build will lose. However, we see players of equal skill (mAT finalists) playing weaver alongside builds like shiro rene. Guess what? the weaver wins this matchup.

Conclusion: weaver is not harder to play than other meta builds

you keep on saying equal skill. its pretty much impossible to determine where a players skill ends and the builds strength/ matchup begins. peoples skill varies wildly, and the only way to determine how good they are in comparison to one another is to have them duel on the same builds. even then all it takes is one mistake, a bad day effecting judgment, etc. you are forgetting to factor in a builds matchup vs another thats why your logic is wrong. also like i said build difficulty has nothing to do with its efficacy. core ele/ engi has a ton of buttons but its really bad. core necro has 3 buttons but vs a good thief/ war its dead.

[Fueki.4753]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:the only way to determine how good they are in comparison to one another is to have them duel on the same builds.Even under such conditions, comparing people is difficult.Different people have different biases towards actions.Even in an hypothetically encounter between two people with equal skills and no mistakes done, there ought to be noticeable differences in behaviour, which will affect the performances.

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:you are not following my logic. if two players of equal skill were to fight, the one playing the more difficult build will lose. However, we see players of equal skill (mAT finalists) playing weaver alongside builds like shiro rene. Guess what? the weaver wins this matchup.

Conclusion: weaver is not harder to play than other meta builds

you keep on saying equal skill. its pretty much impossible to determine where a players skill ends and the builds strength/ matchup begins. peoples skill varies

wildly

, and the only way to determine how good they are in comparison to one another is to have them duel on the same builds. even then all it takes is one mistake, a bad day effecting judgment, etc. you are forgetting to factor in a builds matchup vs another thats why your logic is wrong. also like i said build difficulty has nothing to do with its efficacy. core ele/ engi has a ton of buttons but its really bad. core necro has 3 buttons but vs a good thief/ war its dead.

as i have said many times, top mAT competitors are pretty much guaranteed to have relatively equal skill. otherwise the lesser skilled players will be kicked out of the top teams and replaced by more skilled ones

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

people are able to play weaver with the same efficacy as other classes proves that it does not require any more skill than other classes/builds

uh, no. there is no correlation between efficacy and skill for any class. in fact, its all over the place. necro i can facetank auto attack ftw, on mes i blow up in 3 sec, weav i can press 100 buttons while the other guy can press 10 and we could end up both having the same amount of hp left.

you are not following my logic. if two players of equal skill were to fight, the one playing the more difficult build will lose. However, we see players of equal skill (mAT finalists) playing weaver alongside builds like shiro rene. Guess what? the weaver wins this matchup.

Conclusion: weaver is not harder to play than other meta builds

We get what you are saying, but weaver is made for dueling, while shiro rene is not. ergo, weaver of equal skill SHOULD win the 1v1.

yes, which is what is happening right now--weaver kills rene. So what's with the complaint here about weaver being bad/requiring 5 times more skill to play?

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

people are able to play weaver with the same efficacy as other classes proves that it does not require any more skill than other classes/builds

uh, no. there is no correlation between efficacy and skill for any class. in fact, its all over the place. necro i can facetank auto attack ftw, on mes i blow up in 3 sec, weav i can press 100 buttons while the other guy can press 10 and we could end up both having the same amount of hp left.

you are not following my logic. if two players of equal skill were to fight, the one playing the more difficult build will lose. However, we see players of equal skill (mAT finalists) playing weaver alongside builds like shiro rene. Guess what? the weaver wins this matchup.

Conclusion: weaver is not harder to play than other meta builds

We get what you are saying, but weaver is made for dueling, while shiro rene is not. ergo, weaver of equal skill SHOULD win the 1v1.

yes, which is what is happening right now--weaver kills rene. So what's with the complaint here about weaver being bad/requiring 5 times more skill to play?

? You dont have to be better then your enemy if your build counters his, you have to be in an even matchup to be better, Im not going to pretend I know whats good/bad against weaver, but shiro rev doesnt seem remotely close to an even 1v1.