PvP Fights Now Be Like:

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@razaelll.8324 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

You just said that Homogenous and Heterogenous States have different properties and therefor, these properties make them meaningful... is that not what you said? Therefor I can sell you a cup of coffee that is truly homogenous and you would buy it, it'll just take you only until universal Heat Death to reach perfect homogeneity, so i'll just take your money first agreed?

Where did i said that ?

i said that what makes 2 states different is their properties

Therefor I can sell you a cup of coffee that is completely homogenous, because a homogenous cup of coffee has meaningfully different properties then a heterogenous cup of coffee. Think you actually need a cup of coffee man.

[razaelll.8324]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@razaelll.8324 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

You just said that Homogenous and Heterogenous States have different properties and therefor, these properties make them meaningful... is that not what you said? Therefor I can sell you a cup of coffee that is truly homogenous and you would buy it, it'll just take you only until universal Heat Death to reach perfect homogeneity, so i'll just take your money first agreed?

Where did i said that ?

i said that what makes 2 states different is their properties

Therefor I can sell you a cup of coffee that is completely homogenous, because a homogenous cup of coffee has meaningfully different properties then a heterogenous cup of coffee. Think you actually need a cup of coffee man.

Where exactly did i said "meaningfully different". you again start the tactic with shifting peoples words.... that dont work on me

you are hopeless case mate. see you around ;)

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@razaelll.8324

Better yet i'll just become a balance dev and sell you balance changes instead.

When i become Dev, I'm just going to nerf all classes, and buff the crap out of warrior. Then 3 months later I'm going to nerf the crap out of warrior, and buff the crap out of Revenant. I'm sure the state of balance in the game will be better and better with every patch!

! My guy you are way out of your depth here. I can run circles around you right now because your logic is so flawed that I can sit here all day and come up with counterpoints on the top of my head that just show how bad the logic is.

[razaelll.8324]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:@razaelll.8324

Better yet i'll just become a balance dev and sell you balance changes instead.

When i become Dev, I'm just going to nerf all classes, and buff the kitten out of warrior. Then 3 months later I'm going to nerf the kitten out of warrior, and buff the kitten out of Revenant. I'm sure the state of balance in the game will be better and better with every patch!

! My guy you are way out of your depth here. I can run circles around you right now because your logic is so flawed that I can sit here all day and come up with counterpoints on the top of my head that just show how bad the logic is.

No one clamed that, this sentence only proves that you don't understand at all what i and Ragnar explained to you. i will again STRONGLY ADVICE YOU to read the conversation again since you obviously don't understand it at all

My guy you are way out of your depth here. I can run circles around you right now because your logic is so flawed that I can sit here all day and come up with counterpoints on the top of my head that just show how bad the logic is.

what are you doing is making your self look stupid. But its okay not everybody can understand what he reads.. Keep trying i am sure you will understand it 1 day or another ;)

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@razaelll.8324 said:i said that what makes 2 states different is their properties

I'm literally selling you balance changes and an immaculate coffee machine based on their properties...You don't want Burn Guardian Meta? How bout' instead I sell you Necro Lich Form Meta! That's meaningfully different then Burn Guardian Meta now isn't it? There is meaning to my changes!

[razaelll.8324]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@razaelll.8324 said:i said that what makes 2 states different is their properties

I'm literally selling you balance changes and an immaculate coffee machine based on their properties...You don't want Burn Guardian Meta? How bout' instead I sell you Necro Lich Form Meta! That's meaningfully different then Burn Guardian Meta now isn't it? There is meaning to my changes!

oo so you acknowledge that burn guardian meta is different than necro lich meta? Nice man you start catching up . keep going you are getting closer.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

This is the most nonsense I've ever seen posted in a single thread in any forum.

This thread needs to be taken to Dr. Phil or possibly have a Netflix original documentary made about it.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@razaelll.8324 said:oo so you acknowledge that burn guardian meta is different than necro lich meta? Nice man you start catching up . keep going you are getting closer.

I can literally sell you any meta I want. Name a meta and I'll sell it to you in a 3 month cadence.

[razaelll.8324]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@razaelll.8324 said:oo so you acknowledge that burn guardian meta is different than necro lich meta? Nice man you start catching up . keep going you are getting closer.

I can literally sell you any meta I want. Name a meta and I'll sell it to you in a 3 month cadence.

what ever you say boss you know best

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@razaelll.8324 said:what ever you say boss you know best

You think I wasn't being serious? Name a meta, and I will give it to you. Tell me what do you want?

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:This is the most nonsense I've ever seen posted in a single thread in any forum.

This thread needs to be taken to Dr. Phil or possibly have a Netflix original documentary made about it.

?

It boggles my mind that this started with a Family Guy clip.But hey, definitely won't hear any complaining from me B)

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@razaelll.8324 said:

@"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:You can even pretend that Pink in the above example is Mesmer, and Blue in the above is Guardian. So tell me, how are either states qualitatively different from one another? And here's I'll give you a head start on your response:check what is written at the end " No particular state is in more significant than any other" which does not mean " no particular state is any different in any other" making a difference here?

Alright after this i'll stop i promise.

Anyone wanna give me any meta you want and I'll stick it into this meme.

[Vancho.8750]

@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:This is the most nonsense I've ever seen posted in a single thread in any forum.

This thread needs to be taken to Dr. Phil or possibly have a Netflix original documentary made about it.

?

It boggles my mind that this started with a Family Guy clip.But hey, definitely won't hear any complaining from me B)I'm not sure if this thread will become Legendary like "gf left me coz of ladderboard", but there thigh poetry of the writer was the selling point, here is the contents of the argument and the depths of depravity of mathematics. We need the red stamp of approval to hoist it up to the top.

On a serious note, I think the pvp is kinda numerically balanced to the point where mechanical problems are more apparent and we have been stuck in generally the same meta for a long time, so people are just bored. Even though before the whole expansion all hands on deck stuff some of the mechanical changes did end up terrible, they did shake up the game, now everything is settled down and new builds can't squeeze in general play that fast. The game has been balanced around tournaments which nice but maybe just maybe they should look up the general pvp audience and help ease in new players as well as keep old players not fucking bored, which is probably the biggest reason that the population is down . I think they focused way too much on balancing and forgot why they do balancing, cause sure as heck I am not entertained.Also,ALL IS VAIN.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@"Vancho.8750" said:I'm not sure if this thread will become Legendary like "gf left me coz of ladderboard", but there thigh poetry of the writer was the selling point, here is the contents of the argument and the depths of depravity of mathematics. We need the red stamp of approval to hoist it up to the top.

Ha! I mean mathematics is unbiased and universal, but I have no problem using it as a weapon to tear down illogical arguments. It's like wielding Thor's Hammer, If you know how to do some math, you can wield it and use it as a weapon or a shield or an endless amount of jokes. Except I would be the version of Thor that doesn't GAF if someone's feelings get hurt.

I don't wanna compare myself to Einstein, because I'm no where near as smart as him and I won't consider myself as being smarter then anyone else here. But like Thor's Hammer, If you can pick it up, you can use math as an actual weapon

On a serious note, I think the pvp is kinda numerically balanced to the point where mechanical problems are more apparent

Right exactly. the numerical balance changes don't amount to anything because the real way to make meaningful changes are to mechanics, because changes to those are what give rise to increases and decreases in the complexity of a system. I didn't touch on this at all, but if one follows the math, this is the inevitable conclusion one reaches about how to actually change the system in a meaningful way. Cheers.

@"Kuma.1503" said:Hi, welcome to the Guild Wars 2 Forums. As you can see, the smart people are arguing right now. This might go on for a while, so, for now, a brief intermission!

Ragnar be like: Look if I scramble up my food like this I get--

Justice: A mess. And you could've just done that in a different way and gotten the same result.

Ragnar: -Munch- . . . If I did it differently it would taste better... >_<

Justice: Math doesn't care about your taste buds.

Ragnar: Remind me not to hire math as my culinarian.

lol, this sums up perfectly, the story of this thread.

Culinarian : What would you like to eat today gentlemen.

Ragnar : Hi I'd like a Scrambled Egg.

Culinarian : And you sir?

Raz : I'd like it Sunnyside up.

Ragnar : Sunnyside up? Scrambled is Qualitatively better then Sunnyside up.

Raz : Excuse me? Sunnyside Up is better because it's got qualitatively different properties then your scrambled egg.

Ragnar : Culinarian, How much do they both cost?

Culinarian : They are both worth $1.

Ragnar : This means they must be exactly the same.

Culinarian : They are both just egg's, in different states.

Raz : How can they both be worth $1 if the state of Sunnyside up is qualitatively better then the state of Scrambled.

Culinarian smashes the eggs on the table, the cold yoke dripping onto the floor.

Culinarian : Enjoy your meals gentlemen.

Ragnar and Raz look at each other and in unison they say "This is perfectly balanced."

[razaelll.8324]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"Vancho.8750" said:I'm not sure if this thread will become Legendary like "gf left me coz of ladderboard", but there thigh poetry of the writer was the selling point, here is the contents of the argument and the depths of depravity of mathematics. We need the red stamp of approval to hoist it up to the top.

Ha! I mean mathematics is unbiased and universal, but I have no problem using it as a weapon to tear down illogical arguments. It's like wielding Thor's Hammer, If you know how to do some math, you can wield it and use it as a weapon or a shield or an endless amount of jokes. Except I would be the version of Thor that doesn't GAF if someone's feelings get hurt.

I don't wanna compare myself to Einstein, because I'm no where near as smart as him and I won't consider myself as being smarter then anyone else here.

But like Thor's Hammer, If you can pick it up, you can use math as an actual weapon

On a serious note, I think the pvp is kinda numerically balanced to the point where mechanical problems are more apparent

Right exactly. the numerical balance changes don't amount to anything because the real way to make meaningful changes are to mechanics, because changes to those are what give rise to increases and decreases in the complexity of a system. I didn't touch on this at all, but if one follows the math, this is the inevitable conclusion one reaches about how to actually change the system in a meaningful way. Cheers.

@"Kuma.1503" said:Hi, welcome to the Guild Wars 2 Forums. As you can see, the smart people are arguing right now. This might go on for a while, so, for now, a brief intermission!

Ragnar be like: Look if I scramble up my food like this I get--

Justice: A mess. And you could've just done that in a different way and gotten the same result.

Ragnar: -Munch- . . . If I did it differently it would taste better... >_<

Justice: Math doesn't care about your taste buds.

Ragnar: Remind me not to hire math as my culinarian.

lol, this sums up perfectly, the story of this thread.

Culinarian : What would you like to eat today gentlemen.

Ragnar : Hi I'd like a Scrambled Egg.

Culinarian : And you sir?

Raz : I'd like it Sunnyside up.

Ragnar : Sunnyside up? Scrambled is Qualitatively better then Sunnyside up.

Raz : Excuse me? Sunnyside Up is better because it's got qualitatively different properties then your scrambled egg.

Ragnar : Culinarian, How much do they both cost?

Culinarian : They are both worth $1.

Ragnar : This means they must be exactly the same.

Culinarian : They are both just egg's, in different states.

Raz : How can they both be worth $1 if the state of Sunnyside up is qualitatively better then the state of Scrambled.

Culinarian smashes the eggs on the table, the cold yoke dripping onto the floor.

Culinarian : Enjoy your meals gentlemen.

Ragnar and Raz look at each other and in unison they say "This is perfectly balanced."

So you ran out of "smart" things to say and decided to start memeing with WORDS I NEVER said.

Let me add into it then

Raz : i sell you glass of water for 1 dollar and glass of water with sugar in it for 1,20 dollars

GW2 Einstein: i will take both for a dollar each because both of them are the same thing .... YOU CANNOT FOOL ME I READ GOOGLE

Raz : How can they both be worth $1 if the state of Sunnyside up is qualitatively better then the state of Scrambled.

Quote where i said that 1 state is better than another because of the properties it has i dare you ....

You cant because i never said it, so this is another example of you shifting peoples words to serve your point when you cannot prove it .... disappointing

here is another example of you shifting people's words Rangar never claimed that he can make UNIQUE numerical change nor he talked about unique numerical change ..... disappointinghere i will even quote it for you to refresh your mind.

Again the difference between me and Ragnar's position, is that Ragnar believes you can make UNIQUE local change with numerical changes, which is wrong btw, and my position is that ALL numerical changes have an infinite number of equivalent change, meaning NO change is unique at any and all scale, which is factually and mathematically correct.

so here the difference between you and ragnar is that he believe he can make UNIQUE local change , then suddenly few post later the difference become about is a change meaningful or not

The debate is NOT about whether a system can change, it's whether that change has any meaning,

Hmm .... so at the end did Ragnar claim the he can make unique local change or that making a numerical change to the system has meaning?

but I have no problem using it as a weapon to tear down illogical arguments

It really blows my mind that you believe your self that you proved anything mathematically , wake up call YOU DIDNT. You post a char which you do not understand at all, you shift people's words and then pretend that never happened and then say "i use math as a weapon" ... Are you okay mate, i am staring to get worried about you... Stop making your self look like a clown and grow up ! You can continue be delusional and meme about me or what ever you want, but that wont change the fact that you DIDN'T proved anything at all and cannot handle a person who challenge you to do soo. I think i overestimated you and you are not that smart as i though you would be , disappointing...

Have a great day and be healthy.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@"razaelll.8324" said:

My guy, it's just a series of jokes based on your own logic. Yea, I'm using your own logic against you. It's a monster you created.

Raz : i sell you glass of water for 1 dollar and glass of water with sugar in it for 1,20 dollars

GW2 Einstein: i will take both for a dollar each because both of them are the same thing .... YOU CANNOT FOOL ME I READ GOOGLE

The reason you can't even come up with any decent joke that actually works, let alone be an actual reflection of the conversation is because the basic logic you are trying to fight for is flawed....which is why it can be torn down so easily.

The extra 20 cents your trying to charge GW2 Einstein, is for the sugar that you added, not how well that sugar is mixed in with the water. Like you could have just given GW2 Einstein a pack of sugar to mix it himself, he would have still given you 20 cents, no more no less.

Like stated earlier, the Culinarian can sell YOU a Glass of perfectly homogenous water or coffee or water-vapor or whatever drink based on it's homogenous/heterogenous state, and you would buy it for a billion zillion dollars based on your logic. Course I can't slight you for having a refined taste in water...If you wanna pay the culinarian all your money, and wait for eternity for the water to become completely homogenous, then be my guest. You are welcome to the Complexity Café at all times, cause it's open for as long as there is a point in you being there.

This is how the Culinarian would respond to you and your flimsy joke:

Culinarian: They are both just drinks in different states. All states it can be in are equivalent, so stop bickering about the price, or whether it's a better drink or not, and enjoy your drink, because what's meaningful is the act of exploring all the different possible drinks we have here at the Café.

He would then pour the water on the table.

Raz : How can they both be worth $1 if the state of Sunnyside up is qualitatively better then the state of Scrambled.

Quote where i said that 1 state is better than another because of the properties it has i dare you ....

Qualitative...it's a word you should probably look up the definition to maybe...I mean it's not like the meme doesn't spell it out quite clearly for you. If you think something is Qualitatively different then another thing, you can then say which one is of better or worse quality. You believe state B is Qualitatively different then A, therefor you should be able to assess that it is either better or worse. I assessed it for you since you didn't say which one. Funny how one person can say something is better then another thing and yet another person can say it's worse at the same time...that's truly a meaningful argument to have isn't it.

You cant because I never said it, so this is another example of you shifting peoples words to serve your point when you cannot prove it .... disappointing

My guy, "shifting words" is not what's happening here. I'm just here applying your logic...because that's how this is supposed to work. If your logic works and argument is sound, you should be able to apply it. The fact that you are saying "well wait wait nooooo that's not what I said" Is just a proof that your logic can't be applied in the way you want without it looking ridiculous.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@"razaelll.8324" Alright, I've had enough fun. But this is gonna end right now.

Here is a video of Leonard Susskind the guy who invented String Theory, proved Steven Hawking wrong over Blackhole Information loss and really just overall one of the best physicists in the field, explaining the proof I showed you on the last page, using slightly more complicated mathematics, one compatible with Quantum Mechanics. I linked this video earlier, but you didn't watch it, obviously, so here it is again, clipped for everyone to see right here.

You want more proof, Well here is the proof from one of the smartest people existing on the planet today.

[razaelll.8324]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"razaelll.8324" said:

My guy, it's just a series of jokes based on your own logic. Yea, I'm using your own logic against you. It's a monster you created.

Raz : i sell you glass of water for 1 dollar and glass of water with sugar in it for 1,20 dollars

GW2 Einstein: i will take both for a dollar each because both of them are the same thing .... YOU CANNOT FOOL ME I READ GOOGLE

The reason you can't even come up with any decent joke that actually works, let alone be an actual reflection of the conversation is because the basic logic you are trying to fight for is flawed....which is why it can be torn down so easily.

The extra 20 cents your trying to charge GW2 Einstein, is for the sugar that you added, not how well that sugar is mixed in with the water. Like you could have just given GW2 Einstein a pack of sugar to mix it himself, he would have still given you 20 cents, no more no less.

Like stated earlier, the Culinarian can sell

YOU

a Glass of perfectly homogenous water or coffee or water-vapor or whatever drink based on it's homogenous/heterogenous state, and you would buy it for a billion zillion dollars based on your logic. Course I can't slight you for having a refined taste in water...If you wanna pay the culinarian all your money, and wait for eternity for the water to become completely homogenous, then be my guest. You are welcome to the Complexity Café at all times, cause it's open for as long as there is a point in you being there.

This is how the Culinarian would respond to you and your flimsy joke:

Culinarian: They are both just drinks in different states. All states it can be in are equivalent, so stop bickering about the price, or whether it's a better drink or not, and enjoy your drink,

because what's meaningful is the act of exploring all the different possible drinks we have here at the Café.

He would then pour the water on the table.

Raz : How can they both be worth $1 if the state of Sunnyside up is qualitatively better then the state of Scrambled.

Quote where i said that 1 state is better than another because of the properties it has i dare you ....

Qualitative...it's a word you should probably look up the definition to maybe...I mean it's not like the meme doesn't spell it out quite clearly for you. If you think something is Qualitatively different then another thing, you can then say which one is of better or worse quality. You believe state B is Qualitatively different then A, therefor you should be able to assess that it is either better or worse. I assessed it for you since you didn't say which one. Funny how one person can say something is better then another thing and yet another person can say it's worse at the same time...that's truly a meaningful argument to have isn't it.

You cant because I never said it, so this is another example of you shifting peoples words to serve your point when you cannot prove it .... disappointing

My guy, "shifting words" is not what's happening here. I'm just here applying your logic...because that's how this is supposed to work. If your logic works and argument is sound, you should be able to apply it. The fact that you are saying "well wait wait nooooo that's not what I said" Is just a proof that your logic can't be applied in the way you want without it looking ridiculous.

My guy i proved you shift my words and making fool of your self, you can deny it all you want but its the truth. You didnt use my logic at all because you still fail to understand what i told you, but continue living in your dream world.

I will do it again

Quote 1 time where i said this:

Raz : How can they both be worth $1 if the state of Sunnyside up is qualitatively better then the state of Scrambled.

You cant because i never said it . I never said that 1 state is better ot worse than other because of different properties, so the quote above is not based on something i said nor my logic , but something which you wish i said. In fact i never talked about states quality so , which means the quote above cannot be based on my logic but only your imagination.

As i said disappointing...

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@razaelll.8324 said:My guy this is over. Watch the video linked above, end of discussion.

[razaelll.8324]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@razaelll.8324 said:My guy this is over. Watch the video linked above, end of discussion.

My guy learn to read before commenting

How do you expect to prove me wrong when you dont even know/understand what i have said... Pathetic.

So now you dip out because you cannot handle a discussion and i proved how you shift people's word just to serve your point, that is even more pathetic...

[Cynz.9437]

You guys can post here all you want with all the arguments and string theory (how did we even get there) but current meta consist of 2.5 classes and is frigging boring.

[razaelll.8324]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@razaelll.8324 said:My guy this is over. Watch the video linked above, end of discussion.

Here another example of you shifting my words

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

You just said that Homogenous and Heterogenous States have different properties and therefor, these properties make them meaningful... is that not what you said? Therefor I can sell you a cup of coffee that is truly homogenous and you would buy it, it'll just take you only until universal Heat Death to reach perfect homogeneity, so i'll just take your money first agreed?

Where did i said that ?

i said that what makes 2 states different is their properties, which is perfectly visible on the char you posted too ...

I dont know are you just hungry for attention, but i am done with you.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@"razaelll.8324" said:My guy learn to read before commenting

Why should I have to read anything you have to say? You provided no "proof" of anything. I provided multiple proofs of my position, This video is the proof given by Leonard Susskind, one of the smartest people on the planet. All your trying to do at this point is bury it under a bunch of your worthless responses.

Watch the video proof, end of discussion. Linked again so your underhanded filibuster tactics don't work.

[Sigmoid.7082]

Can you just agree to disagree and move on...?

[Vancho.8750]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Can you just agree to disagree and move on...?Nah, nah let them fight that is some quality chat pvp, best in years, pvp in game might be boring but this shiz right here is the real deal.