Thief Dead?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

Thief utilities have massive cooldowns (in particular when you consider some of the effects), though. You can't say thief doesn't have a trade-off in this aspect of their initiative system.

Why are yu acting like other classes don't have cooldowns either?Are yu seriously pretending that Thieves having cooldowns is a tradeoff?

And Massive only applies to Thieves Guild.All the other utilities I've mentioned have very reasonable cooldowns.

Thieves only pick fights they

can pick.

Saying they pick fights they

want

is a gross overstatement. Saying they can afford to sit around while simultaneously claiming they're dedicated to side-noding? Which one is it?

Same difference. They are allowed to pick the fights.No other class can do this because if they get jumped, they can't just hold up a stop sign, and run away.

Now enter SA ThiefJust pressing the heal skill disengages them with Stealth. Lol.

Do I like how reliant thief has become on stealth over the past year or so? No. But people would complain about thief regardless of their meta build. It's how things go with these kinda characters across all PvP genres.

The issue people have with Thief has already been laid out : extreme non interactivity.

Previously there was only one tried and true way to encounter a Thief, and that is to jump them and instantly put them down.

That's nowhere near possible anymore on any Thief, bar Glass cannon Berserker Thieves, but even then it's a tough customer because Daredevil increases their durability considerably.

And when people suggest : hey why not cut out Thieves' ability to be an untouchable annoying gremlin and give them some combat viability people get all huffed and puffed up about it.

It's as if Thief mains enjoy not fighting.

Ah, yes. The good ol' good ol' "anything I dislike IS uninteractive". Mobility does not make this game uninteractive. If daredevil increases thief's durability

so considerably,

why are stealth builds so vastly popular compared to s/x in both WvW and PvP? Sure, the difference to Pre-Feb 2020 is noticeable, but thief's glass cannon nature isn't nullified.

If what you're saying is that Feb 2020 patch made thieves fundamentally harder to balance, you're absolutely right. Suggesting that everything thieves do is uninteractive, however, is just plain bull.

To be fair, thief is the least interactive class in the game. This isn't bias speaking, it's quite literally the strength of thief.

When people dislike a build they usually use some other ill defined term like "brainless, cheese, noob carry, zero skill, ect."

In this instance, we have a specific term that well describes the problem at hand. Thief IS uninteractive, so much so that the best strategy when dealing with a slippery thief is to interact with them as little as possible. Overinvesting into a thief kill or trying to prevent a decap on your node as a sidenoder is a perfect way to end up wasting your time and throwing the match. Most classes simply have to accept that if a thief does not want to interact with you, they can simply leave any time they want to, and you cannot prevent them from doing so. If a thief wants a decap, they will often get it even if you have a head start on them (this is especially true on maps like colosseum and forest of nifenhel), and with pre-nerf SB5 you were most definitely wasting your time if you tried to stop it. Your best bet was (and arguably still is) to ignore the thief, let them have the cap and either fight with your team, or head to the node on the opposite side of the map.

I would challenge you to name a class less interactive than thief.

Thief requires brain game. People don't want brain game, they want to mash buttons 1-2-3-4-5-6 , get kills and so on. Framing the entire class as the most uninteractive class thanks to a select few meta builds is quite the move.

So, how do we go from here? Do I select

my

subjective opinion of uninteractive and begin listing...?

I never said that thief didn't require knowledge or skill to play well. In fact, I implied the opposite. "Brainless, no skill, ect." are terms people often use to label builds they dislike (In fact you did it yourself just now by labeling others as button mashers), but I don't believe those apply to thief (as a whole). The term I used was un-interactive, a problem that exists irrespective of how skillful the class is or isn't.

While I cannot deny that some people have used this label incorrectly in the past, subjectivity should not be a factor when determining how interactive a class is. You can gauge it by looking at gameplay patterns, popular build choices, how matchups play out, as well as a variety of other metrics.

Generally speaking the more evades, blocks, and blinds you have, the more damage you can mitigate, the smaller the window your opponent will have to interact with you by dealing damage or landing CC. Likewise, stealth prevents opponents from landing targeted damage, utilizing targeted ports (huge when disengaging from a Prev) and allows you to conceal tells for your more powerful abilities (e.g. Prime Light Beam from stealth pre-patch. Binding Shadow from stealth).

This much is true. Though, it also changes depending on how frail the class is. A sturdy class like Necro can take more hits than a frail class like ele can, so the same amount of dodges would have different levels of power.

The more mobility you have the easier it will be to prevent interactions altogether by disengaging fights that do not favor you.

You can pretty much always prevent interactions anyway though.

Now consider that thief has an abundance of blinds, mobility, stealth, evades (3 baseline as DrD plus utilities and weapon skills). Because it has these tools in its kit, most classes must accept that chasing after a thief, or trying to prevent a thief from doing it's job is a futile effort. The best you can do, shy of playing thief yourself, is try to be more useful elsewhere on the map.

This is where the logic falls apart. Thief has

below

average number of evades. They have the same as everyone else, then 1 extra per fight from DD, and 1 on a 50 second cooldown. Compared to other classes that can have multiple evades within 10 seconds ontop of the baseline 2, thats pretty bad. Blind is, likewise, fairly limited, and much lower value than evades. Stealth is just outright worthless for avoiding damage in-combat, since the 1.25 seconds of free hits you give your enemy already outshadow any damage you might prevent, ontop of the fact that stealth, against good players, doesn't even tend to prevent much damage anyway, means that there is no reason to use it in combat unless you want to die.

Now the part you got right is that its pointless to chase after a thief. To compensate for the fact that thief can

never

under any circumstances win an even fight, they have the tools to run away. They kinda need them, mobility is the only reason thief is viable. If their mobility was merely on par with, say, Ranger, Warrior or Revenant, Thief would be a universally troll-tier pick worth reporting for.

In spite of all of this, I still think that thief should be buffed. The reason is that thief's un-interactivity is a double edged sword. Being difficult to interact with is theif's strength, and they are encouraged to play to that strength. However, when a thief does choose to interact with other classes, they are among the weakest at accomplishing that goal, at least according to thief mains. I'm sure you've heard the complaints "Thief cannot 1v1. Thief is useless in teamfights. Thief +1s aren't 2v1's they're 1.5v1's" ect.

Not just amongst the weakest, they're

the

weakest. And yes, that part is accurate. Its why thief is the only entirely unplayable class in 2v2 and 3v3.

When I say "Make thief more interactable" it goes both ways. Broaden the window for classes to punish them, give more classes ways of dealing with stealth, but also give thieves more tools to duke it out when they decide to fight rather than avoiding conflict altogether.

Giving classes ways of dealing with stealth is genuinely pointless because stealth in combat is already terrible. And if you have melee attacks, channeled attacks, AoE attacks, burst attacks or CC, you already have ways (And the only class that has none of these is pretty much Deadeye). The only possible solution is to reduce thieves mobility to average, then give them

massive

buffs to both damage and survivability.

I missed you dude...I remember 4 months ago , saying that stealth wasnt the problem in WvW , but instead they should had nerfed sb5 .

Oh great, the clueless guy is back. No wonder with equally wrong takes.

But they cant nerf it , because it had become hard intergrated part into the game .And now in this thread you are saying they they changed , because they did a failed expiriment and their ego wont allow them to change it back :(.

What are you talking about? SB5 nerf absolutely worked, most of the top tier teams have dropped thief now. Its also terrible at suriving now.

So what now ?What will you sucrifice next , for the stealth ?The dodge of Dredevil trait should not get out or Immobilize ?The 30% damage reduction from the Daredevil traitline ?Shadow Shot' Blind should be like the

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flashbang

in duration (from 5 >1,5 + no longer Unblockable) ?

Shadowstep should not have 2 parts , where you can escape more easily ?

No one is sacrificing

anything

for stealth. They're sacrificing it for

mobility

. And now that mobility is lessened, its time they get things back. Or revert SB5 if they don't want to give thief things back.

Lets recap , our old conversation :a)BalackPowder +Heartseekr , you gain stealth when you jump , not when it ends ... you can see videos on Youtube , that the enemy thief gains stealth when he Heartseeker >jumps animation ...and not near your feet .

A statement you made repeatedly. A statement I proved

multiple

times to be completely wrong. You gain stealth at the end of the animation, after 1.25 seconds, end of story.

a.k.a 0,65 sec ...While the Black Powder has no casting animations , you dont know what the Thief is going to do and prevent him , when he starfing-circiling around you .

It literally has a 0.5 cast time and a clear animation. I know complaining about thief while knowing literally

nothing

about it is your calling card, but come on.

When the Powder it complete , its already too late and reduced the 0,5 sec counterplay and living him 0,15 sec to react .....which in videos games the TOP END reaction is more than 0,215 :P

Still wrong.

b) Combat stealth is extramly useful , just see the Guardians Stealth Runes Traps which people are using lately ...where people whined that they gave him trementous boost in survibility :PIt has the samedelay , before he goes in stealth .(

Just rename Ele Core "Summoned Weapoen" to traps and reduce their casting speed to 0...common .... + their aoes , becomes movable like the gyros and gain increase effect , if they step in other player-friends fields

.....)

For the first time in a very,

very

long time, you said something thats not completely wrong. Its uh, still

almost

completely wrong. What people complain about with Guardians getting traps is that its a class that isnt balanced around stealth getting it. They don't have to do anything special to access stealth, they do so by using the tools they use anyway. They can use stealth to cover up high cast times (Which thief can't because the only one it has, Death's Judgement, has a baked-in reveal). And they have passive Aegis. That is why it is strong on Guardian, not on thief. Because Guardian gets extra upsides, but none of the downsides.

c) If you believe that some1 with use 100-nades , in the location you will land while stealthing > use the Shadowstep mid-air ....it has the"Return" part that last for 15 sec ...if a second 100-nade from a different Enginner is incomeing to your new location .

This is not a sentence.

d) If people are gonna use attacks that track you (Rangers Longbow , Necro-Axe) , while you stealtt....it means they wont use it in the duel ...while they wait for you to stealth ...which if you dont , they wont use them >they will do less damage >which means you dont have to stealth

You clearly never played thief. I mean, duh, obviously you never played thief, else you'd know something about it, but this makes it even more painfully clear. A, they can easily kill you without those skills. Their damage is higher than yours either way. B, if they use them, you need to get out somehow, and according to you stealth is the best at that, but completely fails.

e) Blind is useless ? What was the trait from Enginner ,that offer Blind when he dodge and people whined about it and got nerfed ? TWICE ..the Blind part ....ah here it is :

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flashbang

..and its from offensive tree , with 0 survibility , while other classes has in passivly n their weapon attacks:)

Blind is good when its free and fast. Thieves blinds are neither of those things. They tend to not be great.

Lets again , have a healthy-not-cercular-copy-paste-conversation , while i try to sort by my 18 terra animes... so boring task..

There is no way to have any conversation worth having with you. You are proudly,

gleefully

ignorant, and refuse to ever accept that you're wrong. All I can do is repeat the fact that you are wrong, don't know anything about thief, and frankly should never talk about thief until you learn anything.

I didnt ever call you clueless , you pain my old heart :(You really think that you get stealth after 1,25 sec , which you are wrong, you get it at the start of heartseeker animationYou think you are locked and you can do anything , in that 1,25 sec > You can switch weapon to end prematurly the animation to reduce some mini yards and not be the middlelanding position of the 100-nada , or use Shadowstep , or Steal, to avoind 100-nadaWhen you have , to choose an offensive tree ,to get blinds + damage are not free . Lets reduce the blinds duration to 0,5 + the damage from the Shadow Shot + reduce the ini cost to 1 and increase all of them by equiping Acro trait line .People should thank you for nerfing Sb5 , you where themost talkative player going thread to thread , telling that the problem was sb5, instead of stealth and they wouldnt nerf any1 of them ...you wanted to divert other people opinio and backfired :P . (

they will never bring back old Flamethrower 3 to use it over fence, i guarantee it

)Stealth ,gavea tremendous boost in Guardian suvibility , so in combat stealth is useless , is also wrong . If the "pull" is your personal problem, then code it like the DJ and reduce its cd from 40>0 each time he succefully stealths ..still traps will have a cd...and you can freecap the base ...or better yet....go and activates /dodge the traps yourself

"There is no way to have any conversation worth having with you. You are proudly, gleefully ignorant, and refuse to ever accept that you're wrong. All I can do is repeat the fact that you are wrong, don't know anything about thief, and frankly should never talk about thief until you learn anything."(

If we are having conversation , then you wouldnt have time to cheat me with a newcomer in the forums!

)

I read first few sentences of ur post so not commenting on such and also didn't read most of the above posts either but that said u are incorrect about stealth initiating on start of heartseekers animation, the skill was designed to give stealth at the piont of contact so when used on a enemy u still get both the damage and the stealth. If u watch a thief doing the combo he'll leap in the air and as they reach the point they are decending stealth is initiated, not at the start of the animation. I do not honestly know the exact time though so can't attest to the 1.25 cast time.

I am trying to imitate him :PIf i told him to be "good boy" and not harm others , he would ignore me :(There's a line , protecting your class and another going circles so the victim avoids the forums/future whinning

!

8:21 , 9:05

Well as I'm assuming ur a mesmer main im just gonna say this.Mesmers are countered by thieves, get over it as every class has its counters. Yes mesmers should get a dodge back but also its evade/distortion etc potential lowered when receiving thier dodge back. Lastly if u think thieves out burst mesmer than lol as a mesmers burst can almost delete my 25k hp warrior with fighter(toughness rune) in under 1.5 sec, don't care how many cd's are used in that time frame either and all from stealth.....far far higher than and DD can manage. Im not attesting to both classes sustainable damage but from a ambush burst mesmer destroys thief in damage potential. That said that is all that mesmer build can do aside from use its high damage avoidance potential to wait out cd's to attempt that same burst but as far as the damage if that burst is successful it deals far more than any full damge ambush from DD or core even when built for full damage burst.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

Thief utilities have massive cooldowns (in particular when you consider some of the effects), though. You can't say thief doesn't have a trade-off in this aspect of their initiative system.

Why are yu acting like other classes don't have cooldowns either?Are yu seriously pretending that Thieves having cooldowns is a tradeoff?

And Massive only applies to Thieves Guild.All the other utilities I've mentioned have very reasonable cooldowns.

Thieves only pick fights they

can pick.

Saying they pick fights they

want

is a gross overstatement. Saying they can afford to sit around while simultaneously claiming they're dedicated to side-noding? Which one is it?

Same difference. They are allowed to pick the fights.No other class can do this because if they get jumped, they can't just hold up a stop sign, and run away.

Now enter SA ThiefJust pressing the heal skill disengages them with Stealth. Lol.

Do I like how reliant thief has become on stealth over the past year or so? No. But people would complain about thief regardless of their meta build. It's how things go with these kinda characters across all PvP genres.

The issue people have with Thief has already been laid out : extreme non interactivity.

Previously there was only one tried and true way to encounter a Thief, and that is to jump them and instantly put them down.

That's nowhere near possible anymore on any Thief, bar Glass cannon Berserker Thieves, but even then it's a tough customer because Daredevil increases their durability considerably.

And when people suggest : hey why not cut out Thieves' ability to be an untouchable annoying gremlin and give them some combat viability people get all huffed and puffed up about it.

It's as if Thief mains enjoy not fighting.

Ah, yes. The good ol' good ol' "anything I dislike IS uninteractive". Mobility does not make this game uninteractive. If daredevil increases thief's durability

so considerably,

why are stealth builds so vastly popular compared to s/x in both WvW and PvP? Sure, the difference to Pre-Feb 2020 is noticeable, but thief's glass cannon nature isn't nullified.

If what you're saying is that Feb 2020 patch made thieves fundamentally harder to balance, you're absolutely right. Suggesting that everything thieves do is uninteractive, however, is just plain bull.

To be fair, thief is the least interactive class in the game. This isn't bias speaking, it's quite literally the strength of thief.

When people dislike a build they usually use some other ill defined term like "brainless, cheese, noob carry, zero skill, ect."

In this instance, we have a specific term that well describes the problem at hand. Thief IS uninteractive, so much so that the best strategy when dealing with a slippery thief is to interact with them as little as possible. Overinvesting into a thief kill or trying to prevent a decap on your node as a sidenoder is a perfect way to end up wasting your time and throwing the match. Most classes simply have to accept that if a thief does not want to interact with you, they can simply leave any time they want to, and you cannot prevent them from doing so. If a thief wants a decap, they will often get it even if you have a head start on them (this is especially true on maps like colosseum and forest of nifenhel), and with pre-nerf SB5 you were most definitely wasting your time if you tried to stop it. Your best bet was (and arguably still is) to ignore the thief, let them have the cap and either fight with your team, or head to the node on the opposite side of the map.

I would challenge you to name a class less interactive than thief.

Thief requires brain game. People don't want brain game, they want to mash buttons 1-2-3-4-5-6 , get kills and so on. Framing the entire class as the most uninteractive class thanks to a select few meta builds is quite the move.

So, how do we go from here? Do I select

my

subjective opinion of uninteractive and begin listing...?

I never said that thief didn't require knowledge or skill to play well. In fact, I implied the opposite. "Brainless, no skill, ect." are terms people often use to label builds they dislike (In fact you did it yourself just now by labeling others as button mashers), but I don't believe those apply to thief (as a whole). The term I used was un-interactive, a problem that exists irrespective of how skillful the class is or isn't.

While I cannot deny that some people have used this label incorrectly in the past, subjectivity should not be a factor when determining how interactive a class is. You can gauge it by looking at gameplay patterns, popular build choices, how matchups play out, as well as a variety of other metrics.

Generally speaking the more evades, blocks, and blinds you have, the more damage you can mitigate, the smaller the window your opponent will have to interact with you by dealing damage or landing CC. Likewise, stealth prevents opponents from landing targeted damage, utilizing targeted ports (huge when disengaging from a Prev) and allows you to conceal tells for your more powerful abilities (e.g. Prime Light Beam from stealth pre-patch. Binding Shadow from stealth).

This much is true. Though, it also changes depending on how frail the class is. A sturdy class like Necro can take more hits than a frail class like ele can, so the same amount of dodges would have different levels of power.

The more mobility you have the easier it will be to prevent interactions altogether by disengaging fights that do not favor you.

You can pretty much always prevent interactions anyway though.

Now consider that thief has an abundance of blinds, mobility, stealth, evades (3 baseline as DrD plus utilities and weapon skills). Because it has these tools in its kit, most classes must accept that chasing after a thief, or trying to prevent a thief from doing it's job is a futile effort. The best you can do, shy of playing thief yourself, is try to be more useful elsewhere on the map.

This is where the logic falls apart. Thief has

below

average number of evades. They have the same as everyone else, then 1 extra per fight from DD, and 1 on a 50 second cooldown. Compared to other classes that can have multiple evades within 10 seconds ontop of the baseline 2, thats pretty bad. Blind is, likewise, fairly limited, and much lower value than evades. Stealth is just outright worthless for avoiding damage in-combat, since the 1.25 seconds of free hits you give your enemy already outshadow any damage you might prevent, ontop of the fact that stealth, against good players, doesn't even tend to prevent much damage anyway, means that there is no reason to use it in combat unless you want to die.

Now the part you got right is that its pointless to chase after a thief. To compensate for the fact that thief can

never

under any circumstances win an even fight, they have the tools to run away. They kinda need them, mobility is the only reason thief is viable. If their mobility was merely on par with, say, Ranger, Warrior or Revenant, Thief would be a universally troll-tier pick worth reporting for.

In spite of all of this, I still think that thief should be buffed. The reason is that thief's un-interactivity is a double edged sword. Being difficult to interact with is theif's strength, and they are encouraged to play to that strength. However, when a thief does choose to interact with other classes, they are among the weakest at accomplishing that goal, at least according to thief mains. I'm sure you've heard the complaints "Thief cannot 1v1. Thief is useless in teamfights. Thief +1s aren't 2v1's they're 1.5v1's" ect.

Not just amongst the weakest, they're

the

weakest. And yes, that part is accurate. Its why thief is the only entirely unplayable class in 2v2 and 3v3.

When I say "Make thief more interactable" it goes both ways. Broaden the window for classes to punish them, give more classes ways of dealing with stealth, but also give thieves more tools to duke it out when they decide to fight rather than avoiding conflict altogether.

Giving classes ways of dealing with stealth is genuinely pointless because stealth in combat is already terrible. And if you have melee attacks, channeled attacks, AoE attacks, burst attacks or CC, you already have ways (And the only class that has none of these is pretty much Deadeye). The only possible solution is to reduce thieves mobility to average, then give them

massive

buffs to both damage and survivability.

I missed you dude...I remember 4 months ago , saying that stealth wasnt the problem in WvW , but instead they should had nerfed sb5 .

Oh great, the clueless guy is back. No wonder with equally wrong takes.

But they cant nerf it , because it had become hard intergrated part into the game .And now in this thread you are saying they they changed , because they did a failed expiriment and their ego wont allow them to change it back :(.

What are you talking about? SB5 nerf absolutely worked, most of the top tier teams have dropped thief now. Its also terrible at suriving now.

So what now ?What will you sucrifice next , for the stealth ?The dodge of Dredevil trait should not get out or Immobilize ?The 30% damage reduction from the Daredevil traitline ?Shadow Shot' Blind should be like the

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flashbang

in duration (from 5 >1,5 + no longer Unblockable) ?

Shadowstep should not have 2 parts , where you can escape more easily ?

No one is sacrificing

anything

for stealth. They're sacrificing it for

mobility

. And now that mobility is lessened, its time they get things back. Or revert SB5 if they don't want to give thief things back.

Lets recap , our old conversation :a)BalackPowder +Heartseekr , you gain stealth when you jump , not when it ends ... you can see videos on Youtube , that the enemy thief gains stealth when he Heartseeker >jumps animation ...and not near your feet .

A statement you made repeatedly. A statement I proved

multiple

times to be completely wrong. You gain stealth at the end of the animation, after 1.25 seconds, end of story.

a.k.a 0,65 sec ...While the Black Powder has no casting animations , you dont know what the Thief is going to do and prevent him , when he starfing-circiling around you .

It literally has a 0.5 cast time and a clear animation. I know complaining about thief while knowing literally

nothing

about it is your calling card, but come on.

When the Powder it complete , its already too late and reduced the 0,5 sec counterplay and living him 0,15 sec to react .....which in videos games the TOP END reaction is more than 0,215 :P

Still wrong.

b) Combat stealth is extramly useful , just see the Guardians Stealth Runes Traps which people are using lately ...where people whined that they gave him trementous boost in survibility :PIt has the samedelay , before he goes in stealth .(

Just rename Ele Core "Summoned Weapoen" to traps and reduce their casting speed to 0...common .... + their aoes , becomes movable like the gyros and gain increase effect , if they step in other player-friends fields

.....)

For the first time in a very,

very

long time, you said something thats not completely wrong. Its uh, still

almost

completely wrong. What people complain about with Guardians getting traps is that its a class that isnt balanced around stealth getting it. They don't have to do anything special to access stealth, they do so by using the tools they use anyway. They can use stealth to cover up high cast times (Which thief can't because the only one it has, Death's Judgement, has a baked-in reveal). And they have passive Aegis. That is why it is strong on Guardian, not on thief. Because Guardian gets extra upsides, but none of the downsides.

c) If you believe that some1 with use 100-nades , in the location you will land while stealthing > use the Shadowstep mid-air ....it has the"Return" part that last for 15 sec ...if a second 100-nade from a different Enginner is incomeing to your new location .

This is not a sentence.

d) If people are gonna use attacks that track you (Rangers Longbow , Necro-Axe) , while you stealtt....it means they wont use it in the duel ...while they wait for you to stealth ...which if you dont , they wont use them >they will do less damage >which means you dont have to stealth

You clearly never played thief. I mean, duh, obviously you never played thief, else you'd know something about it, but this makes it even more painfully clear. A, they can easily kill you without those skills. Their damage is higher than yours either way. B, if they use them, you need to get out somehow, and according to you stealth is the best at that, but completely fails.

e) Blind is useless ? What was the trait from Enginner ,that offer Blind when he dodge and people whined about it and got nerfed ? TWICE ..the Blind part ....ah here it is :

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flashbang

..and its from offensive tree , with 0 survibility , while other classes has in passivly n their weapon attacks:)

Blind is good when its free and fast. Thieves blinds are neither of those things. They tend to not be great.

Lets again , have a healthy-not-cercular-copy-paste-conversation , while i try to sort by my 18 terra animes... so boring task..

There is no way to have any conversation worth having with you. You are proudly,

gleefully

ignorant, and refuse to ever accept that you're wrong. All I can do is repeat the fact that you are wrong, don't know anything about thief, and frankly should never talk about thief until you learn anything.

I didnt ever call you clueless , you pain my old heart :(You really think that you get stealth after 1,25 sec , which you are wrong, you get it at the start of heartseeker animation

Repeating something proven wrong doesn't magically turn it right, it just makes you look like a fool. The stealth happens at the end of the animaion.

You think you are locked and you can do anything , in that 1,25 sec > You can switch weapon to end prematurly the animation to reduce some mini yards and not be the middlelanding position of the 100-nada , or use Shadowstep , or Steal, to avoind 100-nada

You can switch weapons and end the animation. But then you used 9 initiative for nothing, as you didnt gain stealth. Its just a waste of initiative.

When you have , to choose an offensive tree ,to get blinds + damage are not free . Lets reduce the blinds duration to 0,5 + the damage from the Shadow Shot + reduce the ini cost to 1 and increase all of them by equiping Acro trait line .

You don't "have" to choose explosives, you choose it because its one of Engineers absolute best traitlines. You always use it. The blind is just free. Also I have no idea what that second sentence should mean.

People should thank you for nerfing Sb5 , you where themost talkative player going thread to thread , telling that the problem was sb5, instead of stealth and they wouldnt nerf any1 of them ...you wanted to divert other people opinio and backfired :P . (they will never bring back old Flamethrower 3 to use it over fence, i guarantee it)

I said that if they wanted to change how thief played, they needed to nerf SB5 AND GIVE THIEF MAJOR COMPENSATION BUFFS. That part is kinda critical, and was left out. And I said that I doubt they would nerf it as it either does nothing or kills thief, and its not a change they would make likely. I underestimated how bad balance has gotten in the last year.

Stealth ,gavea tremendous boost in Guardian suvibility , so in combat stealth is useless , is also wrong . If the "pull" is your personal problem, then code it like the DJ and reduce its cd from 40>0 each time he succefully stealths ..still traps will have a cd...and you can freecap the base ...or better yet....go and activates /dodge the traps yourself

Not really. Again, stealth for guardians works differently, and its biggest boon is offensive use rather than defense for Guardian.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

"Repeating something proven wrong doesn't magically turn it right, it just makes you look like a fool. The stealth happens at the start of the animaion"You could try to show me some proof , i am bored to do so :P

If you are mid air, while in the stealth animation , you whined you cant do anything .You already got stealth at the start of the animation , and you can land 60-80 yards before the expected location by switching weapons , or any listed spell i told you so

Lets nerf the blind from Thief and spread it all over the Crit tree . It will benefisial to you .

People whined that stealth was overpowered, and you the oly ne saying that the problem was not stealth in WvW , but the problem was the mobility . But because its an longintergated part of the games , they wont change any of them . Guess again :P(most likely to give it damage , but i like slow-burning cercullar talks , like a good Cook:P)

[Kuma.1503]

@"UNOwen.7132" said:You don't "have" to choose explosives, you choose it because its one of Engineers absolute best traitlines. You always use it. The blind is just free. Also I have no idea what that second sentence should mean.

Holo players are starting to replace explosives with inventions for better cleanse/sustain after the last explosives nerf. Basically the old prot holo build, but with lazer disc instead of HLA. Before the last nerf this was true, but not anymore.

I can link the build if anyone is interested btw.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:"Repeating something proven wrong doesn't magically turn it right, it just makes you look like a fool. The stealth happens at the start of the animaion"You could try to show me some proof , i am bored to do so :P

If you are mid air, while in the stealth animation , you whined you cant do anything .You already got stealth at the start of the animation , and you can land 60-80 yards before the expected location by switching weapons , or any listed spell i told you so

Lets nerf the blind from Thief and spread it all over the Crit tree . It will benefisial to you .

People whined that stealth was overpowered, and you the oly ne saying that the problem was not stealth in WvW , but the problem was the mobility . But because its an longintergated part of the games , they wont change any of them . Guess again :P(most likely to give it damage , but i like slow-burning cercullar talks , like a good Cook:P)

If it's true that stealth mid leap, how come you can do it next to someone and hit them and then stealth instead of being revealed as it would do if this combo worked as you say.

[Cynz.9437]

@"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:"Repeating something proven wrong doesn't magically turn it right, it just makes you look like a fool. The stealth happens at the start of the animaion"You could try to show me some proof , i am bored to do so :P

If you are mid air, while in the stealth animation , you whined you cant do anything .You already got stealth at the start of the animation , and you can land 60-80 yards before the expected location by switching weapons , or any listed spell i told you so

Lets nerf the blind from Thief and spread it all over the Crit tree . It will benefisial to you .

People whined that stealth was overpowered, and you the oly ne saying that the problem was not stealth in WvW , but the problem was the mobility . But because its an longintergated part of the games , they wont change any of them . Guess again :P(most likely to give it damage , but i like slow-burning cercullar talks , like a good Cook:P)

Baked freshly just for you today. I suggest to change video play speed to 0.25.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Cynz.9437 said:

@"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:"Repeating something proven wrong doesn't magically turn it right, it just makes you look like a fool. The stealth happens at the start of the animaion"

You could try to show me some proof , i am bored to do so :P

If you are mid air, while in the stealth animation , you whined you cant do anything .You already got stealth at the start of the animation , and you can land 60-80 yards before the expected location by switching weapons , or any listed spell i told you so

Lets nerf the blind from Thief and spread it all over the Crit tree . It will benefisial to you .

People whined that stealth was overpowered, and you the oly ne saying that the problem was not stealth in WvW , but the problem was the mobility . But because its an longintergated part of the games , they wont change any of them . Guess again :P(most likely to give it damage , but i like slow-burning cercullar talks , like a good Cook:P)

Baked freshly just for you today. I suggest to change video play speed to 0.25.

Ranger's Swoop stealths you after the leap's finished , as well (pretty damn late if you ask me); it's consistent across all mediums to my knowledge.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

@Cynz.9437 said:

@"Killthehealersffs.8940" said:"Repeating something proven wrong doesn't magically turn it right, it just makes you look like a fool. The stealth happens at the start of the animaion"

You could try to show me some proof , i am bored to do so :P

If you are mid air, while in the stealth animation , you whined you cant do anything .You already got stealth at the start of the animation , and you can land 60-80 yards before the expected location by switching weapons , or any listed spell i told you so

Lets nerf the blind from Thief and spread it all over the Crit tree . It will benefisial to you .

People whined that stealth was overpowered, and you the oly ne saying that the problem was not stealth in WvW , but the problem was the mobility . But because its an longintergated part of the games , they wont change any of them . Guess again :P(most likely to give it damage , but i like slow-burning cercullar talks , like a good Cook:P)

Baked freshly just for you today. I suggest to change video play speed to 0.25.

Try to capture the enemy thief stealthing .Just for science :PI dont have many friends to do that :((just dailies heroes, that they dont log in)

Edit: I should tell my neighor to get a better internet conection :PSome times the siluette dissapers at 45% of the animation or 70%https://imgur.com/Yzwfx8M

He might get stealth when he "blast|" the field , but the visual que ... siluete dissaperaring depents on the internet speed or if you have straight channel conection , or something

[Cynz.9437]

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:"Repeating something proven wrong doesn't magically turn it right, it just makes you look like a fool. The stealth happens at the start of the animaion"

You could try to show me some proof , i am bored to do so :P

If you are mid air, while in the stealth animation , you whined you cant do anything .You already got stealth at the start of the animation , and you can land 60-80 yards before the expected location by switching weapons , or any listed spell i told you so

Lets nerf the blind from Thief and spread it all over the Crit tree . It will benefisial to you .

People whined that stealth was overpowered, and you the oly ne saying that the problem was not stealth in WvW , but the problem was the mobility . But because its an longintergated part of the games , they wont change any of them . Guess again :P(most likely to give it damage , but i like slow-burning cercullar talks , like a good Cook:P)

Baked freshly just for you today. I suggest to change video play speed to 0.25.

Try to capture the enemy thief stealthing .Just for science :PI dont have many friends to do that :((just dailies heroes, that they dont log in)

Edit: I should tell my neighor to get a better internet conection :PSome times the siluette dissapers at 45% of the animation or 70%

https://imgur.com/Yzwfx8M

He might get stealth when he "blast|" the field , but the visual que ... siluete dissaperaring depents on the internet speed or if you have straight channel conection , or something

If you ever played thief and fought another thief you would know you can mess them up a lot by interrupting HS. Here i interrupted it at begin and at the end of the animation. Enjoy.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:"Repeating something proven wrong doesn't magically turn it right, it just makes you look like a fool. The stealth happens at the start of the animaion"

You could try to show me some proof , i am bored to do so :P

If you are mid air, while in the stealth animation , you whined you cant do anything .You already got stealth at the start of the animation , and you can land 60-80 yards before the expected location by switching weapons , or any listed spell i told you so

Lets nerf the blind from Thief and spread it all over the Crit tree . It will benefisial to you .

People whined that stealth was overpowered, and you the oly ne saying that the problem was not stealth in WvW , but the problem was the mobility . But because its an longintergated part of the games , they wont change any of them . Guess again :P(most likely to give it damage , but i like slow-burning cercullar talks , like a good Cook:P)

Baked freshly just for you today. I suggest to change video play speed to 0.25.

Try to capture the enemy thief stealthing .Just for science :PI dont have many friends to do that :((just dailies heroes, that they dont log in)

Edit: I should tell my neighor to get a better internet conection :PSome times the siluette dissapers at 45% of the animation or 70%

https://imgur.com/Yzwfx8M

He might get stealth when he "blast|" the field , but the visual que ... siluete dissaperaring depents on the internet speed or if you have straight channel conection , or something

If you ever played thief and fought another thief you would know you can mess them up a lot by interrupting HS. Here i interrupted it at begin and at the end of the animation. Enjoy.

I admit defeit :PLets wait for more instant cc in the expansion , and Uwoen to start a new round :P

But some times the siluates stealths at 45% and some at 75% . But a loss is a loss (i said 0,65)https://imgur.com/Yzwfx8M

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:"Repeating something proven wrong doesn't magically turn it right, it just makes you look like a fool. The stealth happens at the start of the animaion"

You could try to show me some proof , i am bored to do so :P

If you are mid air, while in the stealth animation , you whined you cant do anything .You already got stealth at the start of the animation , and you can land 60-80 yards before the expected location by switching weapons , or any listed spell i told you so

Lets nerf the blind from Thief and spread it all over the Crit tree . It will benefisial to you .

People whined that stealth was overpowered, and you the oly ne saying that the problem was not stealth in WvW , but the problem was the mobility . But because its an longintergated part of the games , they wont change any of them . Guess again :P(most likely to give it damage , but i like slow-burning cercullar talks , like a good Cook:P)

Baked freshly just for you today. I suggest to change video play speed to 0.25.

Try to capture the enemy thief stealthing .Just for science :PI dont have many friends to do that :((just dailies heroes, that they dont log in)

Edit: I should tell my neighor to get a better internet conection :PSome times the siluette dissapers at 45% of the animation or 70%

https://imgur.com/Yzwfx8M

He might get stealth when he "blast|" the field , but the visual que ... siluete dissaperaring depents on the internet speed or if you have straight channel conection , or something

If you ever played thief and fought another thief you would know you can mess them up a lot by interrupting HS. Here i interrupted it at begin and at the end of the animation. Enjoy.

good thing BP blinds, to remove that as an option for most situations :)

[UNOwen.7132]

@Kuma.1503 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:You don't "have" to choose explosives, you choose it because its one of Engineers absolute best traitlines. You always use it. The blind is just free. Also I have no idea what that second sentence should mean.

Holo players are starting to replace explosives with inventions for better cleanse/sustain after the last explosives nerf. Basically the old prot holo build, but with lazer disc instead of HLA. Before the last nerf this was true, but not anymore.

I can link the build if anyone is interested btw.

Oh, is that so? I guess the explosives nerfs hit harder than expected.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:"Repeating something proven wrong doesn't magically turn it right, it just makes you look like a fool. The stealth happens at the start of the animaion"

You could try to show me some proof , i am bored to do so :P

If you are mid air, while in the stealth animation , you whined you cant do anything .You already got stealth at the start of the animation , and you can land 60-80 yards before the expected location by switching weapons , or any listed spell i told you so

Lets nerf the blind from Thief and spread it all over the Crit tree . It will benefisial to you .

People whined that stealth was overpowered, and you the oly ne saying that the problem was not stealth in WvW , but the problem was the mobility . But because its an longintergated part of the games , they wont change any of them . Guess again :P(most likely to give it damage , but i like slow-burning cercullar talks , like a good Cook:P)

Baked freshly just for you today. I suggest to change video play speed to 0.25.

Try to capture the enemy thief stealthing .Just for science :PI dont have many friends to do that :((just dailies heroes, that they dont log in)

Edit: I should tell my neighor to get a better internet conection :PSome times the siluette dissapers at 45% of the animation or 70%

https://imgur.com/Yzwfx8M

He might get stealth when he "blast|" the field , but the visual que ... siluete dissaperaring depents on the internet speed or if you have straight channel conection , or something

If you ever played thief and fought another thief you would know you can mess them up a lot by interrupting HS. Here i interrupted it at begin and at the end of the animation. Enjoy.

good thing BP blinds, to remove that as an option for most situations :)

If it blinds you, they must've targetted you, in which case they either HS towards you, which makes dealing with them easy, or they have to try and untarget, position themselves, and HS all in a split second, which almost certainly slows them down, so you have plenty time to ping off the blind and hit the interrupt.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:"Repeating something proven wrong doesn't magically turn it right, it just makes you look like a fool. The stealth happens at the start of the animaion"

You could try to show me some proof , i am bored to do so :P

If you are mid air, while in the stealth animation , you whined you cant do anything .You already got stealth at the start of the animation , and you can land 60-80 yards before the expected location by switching weapons , or any listed spell i told you so

Lets nerf the blind from Thief and spread it all over the Crit tree . It will benefisial to you .

People whined that stealth was overpowered, and you the oly ne saying that the problem was not stealth in WvW , but the problem was the mobility . But because its an longintergated part of the games , they wont change any of them . Guess again :P(most likely to give it damage , but i like slow-burning cercullar talks , like a good Cook:P)

Baked freshly just for you today. I suggest to change video play speed to 0.25.

Try to capture the enemy thief stealthing .Just for science :PI dont have many friends to do that :((just dailies heroes, that they dont log in)

Edit: I should tell my neighor to get a better internet conection :PSome times the siluette dissapers at 45% of the animation or 70%

https://imgur.com/Yzwfx8M

He might get stealth when he "blast|" the field , but the visual que ... siluete dissaperaring depents on the internet speed or if you have straight channel conection , or something

If you ever played thief and fought another thief you would know you can mess them up a lot by interrupting HS. Here i interrupted it at begin and at the end of the animation. Enjoy.

good thing BP blinds, to remove that as an option for most situations :)

If it blinds you, they must've targetted you, in which case they either HS towards you, which makes dealing with them easy, or they have to try and untarget, position themselves, and HS all in a split second, which almost certainly slows them down, so you have plenty time to ping off the blind and hit the interrupt.

dunoo, I use action camera and I can blind, turn around and cast wherewer I want in 0,01s without " wasting time "it never even crossed my mind that might be an issue, explains some retarded things I have seen people doing

[UNOwen.7132]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:"Repeating something proven wrong doesn't magically turn it right, it just makes you look like a fool. The stealth happens at the start of the animaion"

You could try to show me some proof , i am bored to do so :P

If you are mid air, while in the stealth animation , you whined you cant do anything .You already got stealth at the start of the animation , and you can land 60-80 yards before the expected location by switching weapons , or any listed spell i told you so

Lets nerf the blind from Thief and spread it all over the Crit tree . It will benefisial to you .

People whined that stealth was overpowered, and you the oly ne saying that the problem was not stealth in WvW , but the problem was the mobility . But because its an longintergated part of the games , they wont change any of them . Guess again :P(most likely to give it damage , but i like slow-burning cercullar talks , like a good Cook:P)

Baked freshly just for you today. I suggest to change video play speed to 0.25.

Try to capture the enemy thief stealthing .Just for science :PI dont have many friends to do that :((just dailies heroes, that they dont log in)

Edit: I should tell my neighor to get a better internet conection :PSome times the siluette dissapers at 45% of the animation or 70%

https://imgur.com/Yzwfx8M

He might get stealth when he "blast|" the field , but the visual que ... siluete dissaperaring depents on the internet speed or if you have straight channel conection , or something

If you ever played thief and fought another thief you would know you can mess them up a lot by interrupting HS. Here i interrupted it at begin and at the end of the animation. Enjoy.

good thing BP blinds, to remove that as an option for most situations :)

If it blinds you, they must've targetted you, in which case they either HS towards you, which makes dealing with them easy, or they have to try and untarget, position themselves, and HS all in a split second, which almost certainly slows them down, so you have plenty time to ping off the blind and hit the interrupt.

dunoo, I use action camera and I can blind, turn around and cast wherewer I want in 0,01s without " wasting time "it never even crossed my mind that might be an issue, explains some kitten things I have seen people doing

You have to untarget too. And yeah, you can't do that even close to in 0.01 second. The absolute minimum is probably around .3 seconds, just off of delay + reaction time + movement. And .3 seconds is a lot.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@UNOwen.7132Just tested it, 100% no delay, In fact you can turn around slightly before the cast time of BP finishes and still the bullet will connect, so at 90% finished cast you just turn around and HS when it finishes, not a rocket science.

EDITto make this clear, when you turn around and use HS BEFORE BP finishes it will still jump towards the target, so despite turning around early you still HAVE to wait for cast time to finish.

[Captain Kuro.8937]

I believe you you can cast BP and push the Escape button (de-target) in the same time , before you can cast Heartseeker , but i can always be wrong

[UNOwen.7132]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@UNOwen.7132Just tested it, 100% no delay, In fact you can turn around slightly before the cast time of BP finishes and still the bullet will connect, so at 90% finished cast you just turn around and HS when it finishes, not a rocket science.

I was referring to input and network delay. Those are constant. Likewise, human reaction time and the speed of moving it. It is theoretically possible to do it during the animation consistently without doing it too early, but practically, there is a reason thieves don't do it.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

What is being talked about here? Of course u can black powder retarded and HS lol their 2 dif skills unless I'm not understanding properly which is possible haha

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:"Repeating something proven wrong doesn't magically turn it right, it just makes you look like a fool. The stealth happens at the start of the animaion"

You could try to show me some proof , i am bored to do so :P

If you are mid air, while in the stealth animation , you whined you cant do anything .You already got stealth at the start of the animation , and you can land 60-80 yards before the expected location by switching weapons , or any listed spell i told you so

Lets nerf the blind from Thief and spread it all over the Crit tree . It will benefisial to you .

People whined that stealth was overpowered, and you the oly ne saying that the problem was not stealth in WvW , but the problem was the mobility . But because its an longintergated part of the games , they wont change any of them . Guess again :P(most likely to give it damage , but i like slow-burning cercullar talks , like a good Cook:P)

Baked freshly just for you today. I suggest to change video play speed to 0.25.

Try to capture the enemy thief stealthing .Just for science :PI dont have many friends to do that :((just dailies heroes, that they dont log in)

Edit: I should tell my neighor to get a better internet conection :PSome times the siluette dissapers at 45% of the animation or 70%

https://imgur.com/Yzwfx8M

He might get stealth when he "blast|" the field , but the visual que ... siluete dissaperaring depents on the internet speed or if you have straight channel conection , or something

If you ever played thief and fought another thief you would know you can mess them up a lot by interrupting HS. Here i interrupted it at begin and at the end of the animation. Enjoy.

good thing BP blinds, to remove that as an option for most situations :)

If it blinds you, they must've targetted you, in which case they either HS towards you, which makes dealing with them easy, or they have to try and untarget, position themselves, and HS all in a split second, which almost certainly slows them down, so you have plenty time to ping off the blind and hit the interrupt.

dunoo, I use action camera and I can blind, turn around and cast wherewer I want in 0,01s without " wasting time "it never even crossed my mind that might be an issue, explains some kitten things I have seen people doing

Where do you live? I want that 0 ms.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@UNOwen.7132Just tested it, 100% no delay, In fact you can turn around slightly before the cast time of BP finishes and still the bullet will connect, so at 90% finished cast you just turn around and HS when it finishes, not a rocket science.

I was referring to input and network delay. Those are constant. Likewise, human reaction time and the speed of moving it. It is theoretically possible to do it during the animation consistently without doing it too early, but practically, there is a reason thieves don't do it.

human reaction time has nothing to do with it, you are not reacting to anything, you are simply casting ability after ~0,5s delay. with practice and exp every thief should be able to do it perfectly with no noticable delay.

[Cynz.9437]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:"Repeating something proven wrong doesn't magically turn it right, it just makes you look like a fool. The stealth happens at the start of the animaion"

You could try to show me some proof , i am bored to do so :P

If you are mid air, while in the stealth animation , you whined you cant do anything .You already got stealth at the start of the animation , and you can land 60-80 yards before the expected location by switching weapons , or any listed spell i told you so

Lets nerf the blind from Thief and spread it all over the Crit tree . It will benefisial to you .

People whined that stealth was overpowered, and you the oly ne saying that the problem was not stealth in WvW , but the problem was the mobility . But because its an longintergated part of the games , they wont change any of them . Guess again :P(most likely to give it damage , but i like slow-burning cercullar talks , like a good Cook:P)

Baked freshly just for you today. I suggest to change video play speed to 0.25.

Try to capture the enemy thief stealthing .Just for science :PI dont have many friends to do that :((just dailies heroes, that they dont log in)

Edit: I should tell my neighor to get a better internet conection :PSome times the siluette dissapers at 45% of the animation or 70%

https://imgur.com/Yzwfx8M

He might get stealth when he "blast|" the field , but the visual que ... siluete dissaperaring depents on the internet speed or if you have straight channel conection , or something

If you ever played thief and fought another thief you would know you can mess them up a lot by interrupting HS. Here i interrupted it at begin and at the end of the animation. Enjoy.

good thing BP blinds, to remove that as an option for most situations :)

Here is the thing, thief combat follows certain flow. If you are experienced it is usually pretty predictable. Here are few simple ways to deal with it, at least as thief, if you assume to get hit by BP:

• you avoid it because you know it is coming
• you sneak an attack before interrupt
• you use signet to cleanse blind and then interrupt (a lot do it)
• you just let them stealth and dodge backstab or just spam aoe to force them out of melee or at least punish them for it
• you stealth yourself and let them look for you, given you stealthed later you are going to stay in stealth little bit longer thus making them vulnerable to backstab (or similar)

Now the actual fun starts when thief knows that you will interrupt them and waits for the interrupt but that goes in the realm of mind games and applies to any class :>Also, as thief i don't really have access (yeah yeah there is ONE) to blocks which is options for other classes.Edit: you can also use fear (e.g. marks), chain, line of warding or taunt among many other things to prevent them from stealthing.

You guys act like bp+hs combo is some kind of iwin button - it is not. I posted the video so there is no misinformation spread about supposedly not interruptable combo - which is bs because i (and many other players, INCLUDING MESMERS) interrupt it every day.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:"Repeating something proven wrong doesn't magically turn it right, it just makes you look like a fool. The stealth happens at the start of the animaion"

You could try to show me some proof , i am bored to do so :P

If you are mid air, while in the stealth animation , you whined you cant do anything .You already got stealth at the start of the animation , and you can land 60-80 yards before the expected location by switching weapons , or any listed spell i told you so

Lets nerf the blind from Thief and spread it all over the Crit tree . It will benefisial to you .

People whined that stealth was overpowered, and you the oly ne saying that the problem was not stealth in WvW , but the problem was the mobility . But because its an longintergated part of the games , they wont change any of them . Guess again :P(most likely to give it damage , but i like slow-burning cercullar talks , like a good Cook:P)

Baked freshly just for you today. I suggest to change video play speed to 0.25.

Try to capture the enemy thief stealthing .Just for science :PI dont have many friends to do that :((just dailies heroes, that they dont log in)

Edit: I should tell my neighor to get a better internet conection :PSome times the siluette dissapers at 45% of the animation or 70%

https://imgur.com/Yzwfx8M

He might get stealth when he "blast|" the field , but the visual que ... siluete dissaperaring depents on the internet speed or if you have straight channel conection , or something

If you ever played thief and fought another thief you would know you can mess them up a lot by interrupting HS. Here i interrupted it at begin and at the end of the animation. Enjoy.

good thing BP blinds, to remove that as an option for most situations :)

Here is the thing, thief combat follows certain flow. If you are experienced it is usually pretty predictable. Here are few simple ways to deal with it, at least as thief, if you assume to get hit by BP:

• you avoid it because you know it is coming
• you sneak an attack before interrupt
• you use signet to cleanse blind and then interrupt (a lot do it)
• you just let them stealth and dodge backstab or just spam aoe to force them out of melee or at least punish them for it
• you stealth yourself and let them look for you, given you stealthed later you are going to stay in stealth little bit longer thus making them vulnerable to backstab (or similar)

Now the actual fun starts when thief knows that you will interrupt them and waits for the interrupt but that goes in the realm of mind games and applies to any class :>Also, as thief i don't really have access (yeah yeah there is ONE) to blocks which is options for other classes.

You guys act like bp+hs combo is some kind of iwin button - it is not. I posted the video so there is no misinformation spread about supposedly not interruptable combo - which is bs because i (and many other players, INCLUDING MESMERS) interrupt it every day.

May be every thief should be a big fat Male norn as to easier see animations :o

[Cynz.9437]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:"Repeating something proven wrong doesn't magically turn it right, it just makes you look like a fool. The stealth happens at the start of the animaion"

You could try to show me some proof , i am bored to do so :P

If you are mid air, while in the stealth animation , you whined you cant do anything .You already got stealth at the start of the animation , and you can land 60-80 yards before the expected location by switching weapons , or any listed spell i told you so

Lets nerf the blind from Thief and spread it all over the Crit tree . It will benefisial to you .

People whined that stealth was overpowered, and you the oly ne saying that the problem was not stealth in WvW , but the problem was the mobility . But because its an longintergated part of the games , they wont change any of them . Guess again :P(most likely to give it damage , but i like slow-burning cercullar talks , like a good Cook:P)

Baked freshly just for you today. I suggest to change video play speed to 0.25.

Try to capture the enemy thief stealthing .Just for science :PI dont have many friends to do that :((just dailies heroes, that they dont log in)

Edit: I should tell my neighor to get a better internet conection :PSome times the siluette dissapers at 45% of the animation or 70%

https://imgur.com/Yzwfx8M

He might get stealth when he "blast|" the field , but the visual que ... siluete dissaperaring depents on the internet speed or if you have straight channel conection , or something

If you ever played thief and fought another thief you would know you can mess them up a lot by interrupting HS. Here i interrupted it at begin and at the end of the animation. Enjoy.

good thing BP blinds, to remove that as an option for most situations :)

Here is the thing, thief combat follows certain flow. If you are experienced it is usually pretty predictable. Here are few simple ways to deal with it, at least as thief, if you assume to get hit by BP:

• you avoid it because you know it is coming
• you sneak an attack before interrupt
• you use signet to cleanse blind and then interrupt (a lot do it)
• you just let them stealth and dodge backstab or just spam aoe to force them out of melee or at least punish them for it
• you stealth yourself and let them look for you, given you stealthed later you are going to stay in stealth little bit longer thus making them vulnerable to backstab (or similar)

Now the actual fun starts when thief knows that you will interrupt them and waits for the interrupt but that goes in the realm of mind games and applies to any class :>Also, as thief i don't really have access (yeah yeah there is ONE) to blocks which is options for other classes.

You guys act like bp+hs combo is some kind of iwin button - it is not. I posted the video so there is no misinformation spread about supposedly not interruptable combo - which is bs because i (and many other players, INCLUDING MESMERS) interrupt it every day.

May be every thief should be a big fat Male norn as to easier see animations :o

That would apply to about every class not to mention we already have standard models in pvp. Then again, not sure it would help much. DH traps for example are (nearly) instant so it is instant stealth with trapper runes :|

[Captain Kuro.8937]

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Cynz.9437 said:

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:"Repeating something proven wrong doesn't magically turn it right, it just makes you look like a fool. The stealth happens at the start of the animaion"

You could try to show me some proof , i am bored to do so :P

If you are mid air, while in the stealth animation , you whined you cant do anything .You already got stealth at the start of the animation , and you can land 60-80 yards before the expected location by switching weapons , or any listed spell i told you so

Lets nerf the blind from Thief and spread it all over the Crit tree . It will benefisial to you .

People whined that stealth was overpowered, and you the oly ne saying that the problem was not stealth in WvW , but the problem was the mobility . But because its an longintergated part of the games , they wont change any of them . Guess again :P(most likely to give it damage , but i like slow-burning cercullar talks , like a good Cook:P)

Baked freshly just for you today. I suggest to change video play speed to 0.25.

Try to capture the enemy thief stealthing .Just for science :PI dont have many friends to do that :((just dailies heroes, that they dont log in)

Edit: I should tell my neighor to get a better internet conection :PSome times the siluette dissapers at 45% of the animation or 70%

https://imgur.com/Yzwfx8M

He might get stealth when he "blast|" the field , but the visual que ... siluete dissaperaring depents on the internet speed or if you have straight channel conection , or something

If you ever played thief and fought another thief you would know you can mess them up a lot by interrupting HS. Here i interrupted it at begin and at the end of the animation. Enjoy.

good thing BP blinds, to remove that as an option for most situations :)

Here is the thing, thief combat follows certain flow. If you are experienced it is usually pretty predictable. Here are few simple ways to deal with it, at least as thief, if you assume to get hit by BP:

• you avoid it because you know it is coming
• you sneak an attack before interrupt
• you use signet to cleanse blind and then interrupt (a lot do it)
• you just let them stealth and dodge backstab or just spam aoe to force them out of melee or at least punish them for it
• you stealth yourself and let them look for you, given you stealthed later you are going to stay in stealth little bit longer thus making them vulnerable to backstab (or similar)

Now the actual fun starts when thief knows that you will interrupt them and waits for the interrupt but that goes in the realm of mind games and applies to any class :>Also, as thief i don't really have access (yeah yeah there is ONE) to blocks which is options for other classes.

You guys act like bp+hs combo is some kind of iwin button - it is not. I posted the video so there is no misinformation spread about supposedly not interruptable combo - which is bs because i (and many other players, INCLUDING MESMERS) interrupt it every day.

May be every thief should be a big fat Male norn as to easier see animations :o

That would apply to about every class not to mention we already have standard models in pvp. Then again, not sure it would help much. DH traps for example are (nearly) instant so it is instant stealth with trapper runes :|

Maybe we should make the Runes , create a Smoke field(2 sec) and code dodge to act as a leap mechanic , just like Bound (some mobility on dodge - no superspeeed)

Edit: i like the part, that you should stealth later , after the thief has stealth .Maybe increase the pool of the classes that can get the stealth Runes ? More mind games is overall better , rather than the snoozing Bunkerish meta .Or overall , classes that gain stealth get 35% "physical" damage reduction as long as the stealth persist or "if they have been noticed" , so they wont eat an enormous amount of damage in the meanwhile . And they can avoid all the unnecessary damage , by using teleport-to-target spells , or dodging/blocking throughout the aoes