Why to use or not use staff?

[Leap Of Faith.8263]

Hi guys, can we discuss pros and cons of using staff? The goods and the bads. In any game mode, nothing specific. How/if you use this weapon?

[Salt Mode.3780]

Staff in PvP wise is super defensive and a good kiting tool. However it lacks in dmg unless you are going condi, and even then only condi mirage can make maximum use of this because of ambush. Power wise it scales poorly and the phantasm iWarlock does nothing. Chaos storm, armor, and phase retreat is the only reason why you would pick staff.

[Veprovina.4876]

I agree with @"Salt Mode.3780" . It has "ok" use in PvP 1v1, but it's so all over the place that it's hard to build around it and it becomes largely wasted in most builds.I think Anet should revamp the staff and make it a support weapon focused on giving boons to allies and the mesmer. Mesmers seriously lack that.

EDIT: Just thought i'd mention - phase retreat is awesome and they should not touch it! :tongue:

[Leap Of Faith.8263]

@Salt Mode.3780 said:Chaos storm, armor, and phase retreat is the only reason why you would pick staff.

What scenario do you see yourself using chaos storm and armor? Like on downed person or on cap point. When fighting a mesmer chaos storm is nothing scary (bit of daze) but nothing major. Condition it puts gets cleansed with the other conditions that mesmer is dishing out anyways.

[Woltarion.6829]

Because Bifrost is my favourite weapon. And staff 2 is fun.

[Salt Mode.3780]

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:

@Salt Mode.3780 said:Chaos storm, armor, and phase retreat is the only reason why you would pick staff.

What scenario do you see yourself using chaos storm and armor? Like on downed person or on cap point. When fighting a mesmer chaos storm is nothing scary (bit of daze) but nothing major. Condition it puts gets cleansed with the other conditions that mesmer is dishing out anyways.

Mesmers as a whole if you look at all the weapons don't really have much CC in their kit weaponsets especially AoE CC compared to other classes. Chaos storm is super strong both defensive and offensive, you can either use it on top of yourself to apply boons then phase retreat for a combo finisher for a chaos shield or use it to daze and stop heal or use it on top of a node in sPvP. Its worth mentioning that chaos storm debilitates very well considering it applies weakness = less dmg output, poison = less heal output, and or chill = hinders CD/movement speed.Chaos armor is strong because if traited it will grant protection always as well as if they attack you it can apply weakness on them, you combine both armor and weakness you become very tanky all of a sudden. Phase retreat is a strong kiting tool as well as it provides a clone.

[Astyrah.4015]

@Leap Of Faith.8263 said:Hi guys, can we discuss pros and cons of using staff? The goods and the bads. In any game mode, nothing specific. How/if you use this weapon?

for open world pve atleast, the staff/staff condi mirage build is nearly unkillable (the dps sucks but you can solo most champs and some legendaries -- just takes a while)

look up lord hizen's open world condi mirage pve build or metabattle's openworld condi mirage build for staff/staff

basically it's just spamming and stacking conditions and abusing infinite horizon and ambush 1 on staff

[Dadnir.5038]

If I had to say, I use staff because it's a fun weapon kit to use. The effect of the skills tend to be lacking (outside of mirage) but the kit of skill itself is just fun to use. Well, I just love Phase retreat in general, phantasmal warlock in PvE and chaotic storm for GW1's nostalgy. The kit could be a lot more refined, wind of chaos could afford to have "less chaotic"/random effect, phantasmal warlocks could apply bleed or have a projectile finisher... etc. But it's still fun to use.

[Salt Mode.3780]

phantasmal warlock use to be good now it hits like wet noodle even playing full power if you like phantasm dmg staff is not for you its only good for clone generation pve pvp it just flat out suck

[necromaniac.7629]

Staff is decent weapon for pvp, was especially good on condi mirage before the nerfs now its not as marginally good as before prior to some nerfs, its niche in pve but mirage drastically maximizes its potential making it especially great for solo content or for just easily staying alive in almost any scenario. It has a slow, spammy, easy, laid-back, "unkillable" playstyle.

[Curunen.8729]

Phase Retreat is one of the best repositioning skills in the game.

Auto has pseudo aoe (unlike scepter), and clones are somewhat useful for damage (unlike eg GS), and doesn't require very close range (sword). Ambush, aside from cast time and delayed travel (...) still fairly decent.

Pretty much it tbh... Sure 5 is a decent skill for on demand daze, source of aegis, etc. But 3 is terrible, and 4 while providing useful boons/condi and is nice traited for protection, has the stupid RNG application on cast so it ends up becoming yet another almost passive mitigation tool rather than "press now to guarantee weakness"...

Yes one could say every little helps - eg if in Chaos, through chaotic persistence, dampening, and some soft synergies. But nothing spectacular.

Personally the only reason I like staff is 1+2.5 I get, but 3 and 4 I'd rather have something a more interesting. Otherwise it devolves into fairly monotonous playstyle.

[lockhart.6048]

Tbh, even staff 1 is mediocre. I used staff in a more serious matter a long time ago, pre HoT when shatter Mesmers could choose to run a combo mix between Staff--GS--Sword/X. The only other time I seriously used it was during the clone death-trait days because I was on a break during the Mirage fest of PvP. I hope they can eventually turn it into a support weapon honestly.

[Leap Of Faith.8263]

@lockhart.6048 said: The only other time I seriously used it was during the clone death-trait days because I was on a break during the Mirage fest of PvP.

Hahah thank you for reminding of good old days of clone death trait.

Also i <3 you guys for sharing how you use your staves. Hope this discussion helps others. I will refresh my skills on staff too.

Thank you

[Tseison.4659]

I rarely use staff due to other weapons being far better, regardless of the whole "Phase Retreat." With that said, below I did a write up of what adjustments I believe the staff should receive to improve it/make it worth picking up as it doesn't really have a "clear" identity aside from Phase Retreat and keeping your distance. With these, I think it should push it more into the condition with minor support-like skills.

• Staff 1 = Unchanged
• Staff 2 = Phase Retreat, I would add "summon 2 clones" to it instead of 1.
• Staff 3 = Remove and replace it with a "NEW" skill that: Summon a phantasm that delivers a massive attack that cascades outwards, applying confusion, torment and vulnerability. Each attack area is a blast finisher and also removes a condition off allies.
• Staff 4 = Chaos Armor needs to be given "Transmute Chaos," similar to what the Elementalist has. The effect can turn X number of conditions on you and allies into boons OR can randomly give X numbers of boons to you and nearby allies.
• Staff 5 = Chaos Storm, duration increased to 9sec OR cooldown reduced to 30sec. Additionally, I think there needs to be more conditions applied with this skill or the current ones on it need to be replaced with more "thematic" damaging ones such as: confusion and torment.

[phokus.8934]

@"Tseison.4659" said:I rarely use staff due to other weapons being far better, regardless of the whole "Phase Retreat." With that said, below I did a write up of what adjustments I believe the staff should receive to improve it/make it worth picking up as it doesn't really have a "clear" identity aside from Phase Retreat and keeping your distance. With these, I think it should push it more into the condition with minor support-like skills.

• Staff 1 = Unchanged
• Staff 2 = Phase Retreat, I would add "summon 2 clones" to it instead of 1.
• Staff 3 = Remove and replace it with a "NEW" skill that: Delivers a massive attack that cascades outwards, applying confusion, torment and vulnerability. Each attack area is a blast finisher and also removes a condition off allies.
• Staff 4 = Chaos Armor needs to be given "Transmute Chaos," similar to what the Elementalist has. The effect can turn X number of conditions on you and allies into boons OR can randomly give X numbers of boons to you and nearby allies.
• Staff 5 = Chaos Storm, duration increased to 9sec OR cooldown reduced to 30sec. Additionally, I think there needs to be more conditions applied with this skill or the current ones on it need to be replaced with more "thematic" damaging ones such as: confusion and torment.Staff would need to create a phantasm.

[Ms Necronymph.1094]

@Veprovina.4876 said:I agree with @"Salt Mode.3780" . It has "ok" use in PvP 1v1, but it's so all over the place that it's hard to build around it and it becomes largely wasted in most builds.I think Anet should revamp the staff and make it a support weapon focused on giving boons to allies and the mesmer. Mesmers seriously lack that.

EDIT: Just thought i'd mention - phase retreat is awesome and they should not touch it! :tongue:

@Veprovina.4876 said:I agree with @"Salt Mode.3780" . It has "ok" use in PvP 1v1, but it's so all over the place that it's hard to build around it and it becomes largely wasted in most builds.I think Anet should revamp the staff and make it a support weapon focused on giving boons to allies and the mesmer. Mesmers seriously lack that.

EDIT: Just thought i'd mention - phase retreat is awesome and they should not touch it! :tongue:

that's because they nerfed it on purpose :p

[Tseison.4659]

@phokus.8934 said:

@"Tseison.4659" said:I rarely use staff due to other weapons being far better, regardless of the whole "Phase Retreat." With that said, below I did a write up of what adjustments I believe the staff should receive to improve it/make it worth picking up as it doesn't really have a "clear" identity aside from Phase Retreat and keeping your distance. With these, I think it should push it more into the condition with minor support-like skills.

• Staff 1 =
  Unchanged
• Staff 2 =
  Phase Retreat, I would add
  "summon 2 clones"
  to it instead of 1.
• Staff 3 =
  Remove and replace it with a
  "NEW"
  skill that: Summon a phantasm that delivers a massive attack that cascades outwards, applying confusion, torment and vulnerability. Each attack area is a blast finisher and also removes a condition off allies.
• Staff 4 =
  Chaos Armor needs to be given "Transmute Chaos," similar to what the Elementalist has. The effect can turn X number of conditions on you and allies into boons OR can randomly give X numbers of boons to you and nearby allies.
• Staff 5 =
  Chaos Storm, duration increased to 9sec OR cooldown reduced to 30sec. Additionally, I think there needs to be more conditions applied with this skill or the current ones on it need to be replaced with more "thematic" damaging ones such as: confusion and torment.Staff would need to create a phantasm.

Staff 3 = Summon a phantasm that delivers the attack....fixed.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Ms Necronymph.1094 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:I agree with @"Salt Mode.3780" . It has "ok" use in PvP 1v1, but it's so all over the place that it's hard to build around it and it becomes largely wasted in most builds.I think Anet should revamp the staff and make it a support weapon focused on giving boons to allies and the mesmer. Mesmers seriously lack that.

EDIT: Just thought i'd mention - phase retreat is awesome and they should not touch it! :tongue:

@Veprovina.4876 said:I agree with @"Salt Mode.3780" . It has "ok" use in PvP 1v1, but it's so all over the place that it's hard to build around it and it becomes largely wasted in most builds.I think Anet should revamp the staff and make it a support weapon focused on giving boons to allies and the mesmer. Mesmers seriously lack that.

EDIT: Just thought i'd mention - phase retreat is awesome and they should not touch it! :tongue:

that's because they nerfed it on purpose :p

Yeah, i mean, every nerf is on purpose lol...They can't accidentally nerf something. :sweat_smile: