thank you arenanet for the glorious new pvp season, i drew you a picture as a thanks

[razaelll.8324]

@georgessj.4198 said:

@razaelll.8324 said:

@georgessj.4198 said:

@"Starbreaker.6507" said:I know botting has been an issue for some time now, but I swear to God that I have never seen more than I have during this 3v3 season.

All of them seem to be Scourges too, and they all do the same thing:

1. Run into the middle of whatever map it is
2. Cast a couple marks from staff
3. Proceed to auto-attack for the remainder of the match

If one of your teammates goes down they'll try to run at them with the hard res, and they obviously make no attempt to try and kite or use any variance in skills.I know that PvP has been a complete dumpster fire for a few years now, but this really highlights what little ANet cares about the game and mode.

And yet just today some 'weirdly good will folks' were telling me how exaggerated bots numbers are :D :D :D

This is not good joke and you are not correct. I didnt tell you how exaggerated the bot numbers are. I told you that i FEEL like it is exaggerated, which means that i might be wrong and i told you also that neither i or you can be 100 % accurate on the numbers so because of that the coverastion wont lead to any meaningfull end since neither i can prove you wrong ,neither you can. So please dont make fun of people and shift their words in different topics. Thank you in advance!

I also said that there are obvious bots and it is sad that anet do not do anything about them.

You were not the only one that day and in case you havent noticed there are bot users in the forum defending their infinite gold source by saying things like 'i never met a bot' or 'stop calling unskill people bots'. Cant blame them though the things i spend 20-40 euros on the gem store they get by botting in a couple of days-weeks

"weirdly good will folks" - refers for multiple people and in that conversation we were 2 people so you either refer to both of us or for another converastion , but i dont see many other "weirdly good will folks" . Neither of us denied the existanse of bots .... We just think that the numbers of bots are over exaggerated, but that dont mean that we are right.

[Arheundel.6451]

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:Adding support elites to GW2 was an absurd decision hands down..when you decide to design your game around no holy trinity, you go and provide self-sustain tools if you then add team support options to these self-sustain tool you end up with a broken mess of a game.

Elites like scrapper-tempest-firebrand should have never seen the light of the day....especially firebrand, why go and add support elite to a profession already designed to be the most supportish of them all?

Playing PvP or WvW right now is an absolute nightmare, these boonball take no dmg and just steamroll everything in sight...they even added aoe cap on skills making stacking that much more easier and useful.....one stupid decision after the other

I fully agree about the AOE cap being bad design . But I standby my statement, that support is in itself not the issue, with the reasoning that support works in Gw1, which is in design not much different then gw2.

Gw1 had no holy trinity. There were just builds...and some builds that players made were healing builds. It is the natural progression of people that seek alternative playstyles and to further cooperative and competitive specialization.

We even had similar "boon-ball" behavior team compositions in gw1, One example being "Eleball" which was a team composition of 8 bunker ele's that used wards and signature Obsidian Flame spike.

The major differences between the two games is not that "support" is an inherently bad thing, but rather how much counter-play there was to defeat other things. Eleball had weaknesses that players could exploit :

A ) It was immobile. It couldn't move around because it relied on wards in order to work.B ) There is no target cap in gw1, thus, focusing a lot of AOE attacks would pressure them and eventually kill them.

Wards couldn't be stripped...but because they were immobile fields it limited what they could actually do in a structured environment. The counter-play was inherent in the skill and in addition people brought to counter it...and I think that's an important distinction between the differences of builds in gw1 and builds in gw2. Many builds in gw2, bunker and support builds included, simply don't have counter play built into the skills nor in opposition...and you get min-max behavior which is to just stack healing, and stack damage and "do it all" and that's basically what druid was...and that was basically the entire meta post HOT...it did everything...high damage, high sustain, highly mobile... counter play didn't exist.

GW1 was amazing because it didn't have all this "stay in a circle" crap so support specs were healthy for the gamemode and made the game a joy to watch on the other hand all this capping gameplay turns everything into a slog when you start adding support to self-sustain options

Also in GW1 you had no real invulnerability and could spike down support specs fairly quickly in a timely manner, sure we had prot monk and some earth armor eles but it wasn't the barrier/block spam of GW2

[felix.2386]

like i said, reduce overall mobility so general balance can be better, they had to hard buff specs without mobility and hard nerf specs with mobility in conquest, because mobility is so OP.even so, mobility still dominates, specially after power/sustain nerf.

resulting unfun braindead builds as well.reduce overall mobility so specs can actually compete in a more balanced manner.

[Bazsi.2734]

@felix.2386 said:like i said, reduce overall mobility so general balance can be better, they had to hard buff specs without mobility and hard nerf specs with mobility in conquest, because mobility is so OP.even so, mobility still dominates, specially after power/sustain nerf.

resulting unfun braindead builds as well.reduce overall mobility so specs can actually compete in a more balanced manner.

Differences in mobility are parts of the class design. When we have entire classes with elite specs doubling down on this(daredevil), nerfing mobility would only work if they deleted the thief class as a whole. And maybe bought it back as the Assassin from GW1... that class had tools to tank hits, or outsustain damage. Thief just doesn't.

If you want another meta where classes are basicly equal mobility-wise, hire some programmers because with the current combat system and the current PvP format it's impossible to implement - unless you rewrite everything. And at that point why not just make a new game?

[Gamble.4580]

Scourge - sucks conquest, AT, pveScourge - is good in a 2 week season that’s once every 2 months but that’s only with support and 1 main dps.

• gw2 forums- NuRf ScOuRgE!

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Filip.7463 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Starbreaker.6507" said:I know botting has been an issue for some time now, but I swear to God that I have never seen more than I have during this 3v3 season.

All of them seem to be Scourges too, and they all do the same thing:

1. Run into the middle of whatever map it is
2. Cast a couple marks from staff
3. Proceed to auto-attack for the remainder of the match

If one of your teammates goes down they'll try to run at them with the hard res, and they obviously make no attempt to try and kite or use any variance in skills.I know that PvP has been a complete dumpster fire for a few years now, but this really highlights what little ANet cares about the game and mode.

It's because people multi box with bot program and synch queue with their bots and then make their bots throw for them. They win trade with their own bots. This is officially out of control as of this 3v3 season to the point that you cannot solo queue or even duo queue without without having literal throw bots join your team, as they outnumber real player population like 3 to 1. <- That is actually happening. Don't 3v3 unless you have a 3 man premade of actual humans.

Ever wonder who those people are who stand around AFK near the trade post and bank area, who never talk, who never move, who are in the same spot for days on end? Yeah give it some thought.

I've even had TWO people recently say to me "Hey let's 3 man. Do you mind if a friend joins us?" and then some random kitten obvious bot joins our group that the guy is running and he proceeds to act like it isn't a bot when it is obviously a generic scourge barrier support spam bot.

No one wintrades in 3v3, also no one wintrades with bots and oh also no one wintrades in silver.

yes the do, it is easier to pad your rank for the next season

[Disney.7826]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Filip.7463 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Starbreaker.6507" said:I know botting has been an issue for some time now, but I swear to God that I have never seen more than I have during this 3v3 season.

All of them seem to be Scourges too, and they all do the same thing:

1. Run into the middle of whatever map it is
2. Cast a couple marks from staff
3. Proceed to auto-attack for the remainder of the match

If one of your teammates goes down they'll try to run at them with the hard res, and they obviously make no attempt to try and kite or use any variance in skills.I know that PvP has been a complete dumpster fire for a few years now, but this really highlights what little ANet cares about the game and mode.

It's because people multi box with bot program and synch queue with their bots and then make their bots throw for them. They win trade with their own bots. This is officially out of control as of this 3v3 season to the point that you cannot solo queue or even duo queue without without having literal throw bots join your team, as they outnumber real player population like 3 to 1. <- That is actually happening. Don't 3v3 unless you have a 3 man premade of actual humans.

Ever wonder who those people are who stand around AFK near the trade post and bank area, who never talk, who never move, who are in the same spot for days on end? Yeah give it some thought.

I've even had TWO people recently say to me "Hey let's 3 man. Do you mind if a friend joins us?" and then some random kitten obvious bot joins our group that the guy is running and he proceeds to act like it isn't a bot when it is obviously a generic scourge barrier support spam bot.

No one wintrades in 3v3, also no one wintrades with bots and oh also no one wintrades in silver.

yes the do, it is easier to pad your rank for the next season

3v3 isnt connected with 5v5. Pls stop spreading false info.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Filip.7463 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Filip.7463 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Starbreaker.6507" said:I know botting has been an issue for some time now, but I swear to God that I have never seen more than I have during this 3v3 season.

All of them seem to be Scourges too, and they all do the same thing:

1. Run into the middle of whatever map it is
2. Cast a couple marks from staff
3. Proceed to auto-attack for the remainder of the match

If one of your teammates goes down they'll try to run at them with the hard res, and they obviously make no attempt to try and kite or use any variance in skills.I know that PvP has been a complete dumpster fire for a few years now, but this really highlights what little ANet cares about the game and mode.

It's because people multi box with bot program and synch queue with their bots and then make their bots throw for them. They win trade with their own bots. This is officially out of control as of this 3v3 season to the point that you cannot solo queue or even duo queue without without having literal throw bots join your team, as they outnumber real player population like 3 to 1. <- That is actually happening. Don't 3v3 unless you have a 3 man premade of actual humans.

Ever wonder who those people are who stand around AFK near the trade post and bank area, who never talk, who never move, who are in the same spot for days on end? Yeah give it some thought.

I've even had TWO people recently say to me "Hey let's 3 man. Do you mind if a friend joins us?" and then some random kitten obvious bot joins our group that the guy is running and he proceeds to act like it isn't a bot when it is obviously a generic scourge barrier support spam bot.

No one wintrades in 3v3, also no one wintrades with bots and oh also no one wintrades in silver.

yes the do, it is easier to pad your rank for the next season

3v3 isnt connected with 5v5. Pls stop spreading false info.

wrong, it does affect your rating. not false

[Disney.7826]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Filip.7463 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Filip.7463 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Starbreaker.6507" said:I know botting has been an issue for some time now, but I swear to God that I have never seen more than I have during this 3v3 season.

All of them seem to be Scourges too, and they all do the same thing:

1. Run into the middle of whatever map it is
2. Cast a couple marks from staff
3. Proceed to auto-attack for the remainder of the match

If one of your teammates goes down they'll try to run at them with the hard res, and they obviously make no attempt to try and kite or use any variance in skills.I know that PvP has been a complete dumpster fire for a few years now, but this really highlights what little ANet cares about the game and mode.

It's because people multi box with bot program and synch queue with their bots and then make their bots throw for them. They win trade with their own bots. This is officially out of control as of this 3v3 season to the point that you cannot solo queue or even duo queue without without having literal throw bots join your team, as they outnumber real player population like 3 to 1. <- That is actually happening. Don't 3v3 unless you have a 3 man premade of actual humans.

Ever wonder who those people are who stand around AFK near the trade post and bank area, who never talk, who never move, who are in the same spot for days on end? Yeah give it some thought.

I've even had TWO people recently say to me "Hey let's 3 man. Do you mind if a friend joins us?" and then some random kitten obvious bot joins our group that the guy is running and he proceeds to act like it isn't a bot when it is obviously a generic scourge barrier support spam bot.

No one wintrades in 3v3, also no one wintrades with bots and oh also no one wintrades in silver.

yes the do, it is easier to pad your rank for the next season

3v3 isnt connected with 5v5. Pls stop spreading false info.

wrong, it does affect your rating. not false

3v3 affects next 3v3 rating, not 5v5 season

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@"Arheundel.6451" said:GW1 was amazing because it didn't have all this "stay in a circle" kitten so support specs were healthy for the gamemode and made the game a joy to watch on the other hand all this capping gameplay turns everything into a slog when you start adding support to self-sustain options

Sure, bunkers are more favored in King of the Hill/Conquest style PVP. There's no doubt about that... but I don't see this as much of a real issue, because gw1 did have these kinds of objectives...in fact it has a lot of the same objectives and then some... some were to hold positions and capture nodes, some was to capture the flag, some was killing a PVE monster...and in most cases it was always a combination of all of these at once. Variety of builds had their advantages and disadvantages to those objectives in a match, and so it's not the actual game-mode that is the problem with balance of the game. In other words, Bunkers are OP because it's a conquest game mode, Just as RT/P's are OP because they run the flags in GvG.

Also in GW1 you had no real invulnerability and could spike down support specs fairly quickly in a timely manner, sure we had prot monk and some earth armor eles but it wasn't the barrier/block spam of GW2

This is an extremely important topic imo. In gw1, there essentially was no practical invulnerabilities...And for the abilities that in some way made you extremely tanky or invulnerable they ALWAYS had serious drawbacks in the form of tradeoffs. These tradeoffs were no joke. Think about how Gw1 tradeoffs compare to Gw2 tradeoffs. Gw2 tradeoffs barely exist, and the ones that do barely do anything, You can spam invuln buttons with no consequences. Meanwhile in Gw1 If you casted a spell that made you invulnerable to spells, you either couldn't attack, couldn't cast any spells, or renders you inert after it ends

Even Shadowform, the most problematic and unbalanced skill in the history of the game in PVE, even with all the tradeoffs it had, was still too powerful, and nerf after nerf after nerf it was still the most overpowered skill in the game until the games death.

The key here is this idea that the tradeoffs in gw2 don't exist when they should...and this has nothing to do with support specs...it's all about the mechanics of gw2 and how those mechanics are badly designed and encourage the behavior we see in pvp right now. Bunkers existed in Gw1 SPVP...but not only were they counter-able,, the builds themselves usually contained countermeasures that prevented the abuse of bunker mechanics. Likewise, with any kind of build, there were always tradeoffs inherent in each skill of that build, that prevented them from being overpowered most of the time.

Smiter's Boon is a good example of a mechanic that allowed a team of monks to become gods by dealing damage at the same time as doing healing...I think this one pretty much spells out clearly WHY it was nerfed so hard...the very mechanic of doing damage and healing at the same time is like gw2's life story in a nutshell.