Grothmar Valley meta achiev is too grind.

[ugrakarma.9416]

i cant believe i just need the Pest Control one to finish this, its take a entire week to finish Grothmar.

For those who will dive into this and is in a headache to complete the 54 achievments, some advice:

• the race achievments ones are pretty easy, first the adventure version, when u get silver, the later the race itself version to get on top 3 rank, u need 5 times, these events spawns normally 2 times in a hour.
• the shoot platforms seems spawns at 10 minutes.
• all scavenger huting achievments in this map is very easy.
• the vip pass achievment count towards the meta.

When i get more time on hands, i will put a list of my achievments, for those want a list of easy stuff to do.

My LS4 run is very near to complete, only need 1 achievment of Dragon fall(the trick one from history mode) to complete, then im done with all LS4 stuff.

[Ashantara.8731]

@ugrakarma.9416 said:i cant believe i just need the Pest Control one to finish this, its take a entire week to finish Grothmar. [...]

Wait until you get to Drizzlewood Coast... Speaking of grind.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"ugrakarma.9416" said:i cant believe i just need the Pest Control one to finish this, its take a entire week to finish Grothmar. [...]

Wait until you get to Drizzlewood Coast... Speaking of grind.

I did most of the grind ones when "farming gold" for my legendary on december,, only some scavenger hunts/history achievs from Jormag Rising is left behind.

But the No Quarter, i need 2 to finish, and the only options left is all grindy:

• The 50x Cold War Strike.
• Tengu Weapons.(is relatively "cheap" for my standarts, but i still feel like waste of gold on such ugly weapons).
• Stormcaller(ugly, expensive and grindy, perhaps the title "stormcaller" is very cool).

I probably will invest on Cold War, because i rarely touch Strikes, them im on empty pockets of strike related currencies.

My goal is finish up all IBS contents before Xpac come.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Pest Control took less than an hour to do.

[Obtena.7952]

Good thing there isn't a requirement to complete it to be successful in the game then .

[ugrakarma.9416]

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:Pest Control took less than an hour to do.

i finished it on sunday,

• Then i did the whispers in the dark history, (i changed my main alt, then im redoing history mode also LS4~IBS), but i have the meta complete, in some way i completed it on 2020 i dont remember when.
• Jumped to Shadow in the Ice, theres lot of stuff to do, but not so grind as Grothmar, plenty of "do 20x some event" achievments.
• Started doing some strikes, theyre incredible easy, but i didnt tried the WoJ, Bonneskinner yet, i will try it along the week.

The grind part of IBS overall seems concentrated too much on these weapons collections, i will left them to the last.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@"Obtena.7952" said:Good thing there isn't a requirement to complete it to be successful in the game then .

but theres some "fun" on it, u feel like u really explored the content at end.

In 2019-2020 i basically played episodes to see the histories and map completion(i have a geographic obscession) and then done.in december 2020 i started playing more hours on gw2.

[Obtena.7952]

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:Good thing there isn't a requirement to complete it to be successful in the game then .

but theres some "fun" on it, u feel like u really explored the content at end

In 2019-2020 i basically played episodes to see the histories and map completion(i have a geographic obscession) and then done.in december 2020 i started playing more hours on gw2.

Right .... it's fun to explore, no disagreement. The existence of an achievement related to a comprehensive completion of the map and it's activities has nothing to do with that.

If your argument here is that it's simply too hard to collect numbers in a game ... well, that's a pretty subjective conclusion that Anet can't fix for you right?

What we need to make sure is that we are separating a discussion about the 'fun' of collecting achievement numbers vs. the 'fun' of doing the activities that complete them.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Good thing there isn't a requirement to complete it to be successful in the game then .

but theres some "fun" on it, u feel like u really explored the content at end

In 2019-2020 i basically played episodes to see the histories and map completion(i have a geographic obscession) and then done.in december 2020 i started playing more hours on gw2.

Right .... it's fun to explore, no disagreement. The existence of an achievement related to a comprehensive completion of the map and it's activities has nothing to do with that.

If your argument here is that it's simply too hard to collect numbers in a game ... well, that's a pretty subjective conclusion that Anet can't fix for you right?

My point is about Grothmar meta requirements too high (54 achievments i guess) and the grind a bit exagerated like the one tied shot event requires 300 shots, u get average 20 per event, u basically have to do the event 15 times and camp a isolated event, not tied to any meta or a more rewarding goal.

[Obtena.7952]

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Good thing there isn't a requirement to complete it to be successful in the game then .

but theres some "fun" on it, u feel like u really explored the content at end

In 2019-2020 i basically played episodes to see the histories and map completion(i have a geographic obscession) and then done.in december 2020 i started playing more hours on gw2.

Right .... it's fun to explore, no disagreement. The existence of an achievement related to a comprehensive completion of the map and it's activities has nothing to do with that.

If your argument here is that it's simply too hard to collect numbers in a game ... well, that's a pretty subjective conclusion that Anet can't fix for you right?

My point is about Grothmar meta requirements too high (54 achievments i guess) and the grind a bit exagerated like the one tied shot event requires 300 shots, u get average 20 per event, u basically have to do the event 15 times and camp a isolated event, not tied to any meta or a more rewarding goal.

Sure, for you ... it is. For others it's not. I get your point, so you need to get mine: Whether you like it or not, Anet can't adjust it because of how you feel about it or anyone else. We can only hope that the challenge of such things matches a similar reward profile for other activities in the game.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Good thing there isn't a requirement to complete it to be successful in the game then .

but theres some "fun" on it, u feel like u really explored the content at end

In 2019-2020 i basically played episodes to see the histories and map completion(i have a geographic obscession) and then done.in december 2020 i started playing more hours on gw2.

Right .... it's fun to explore, no disagreement. The existence of an achievement related to a comprehensive completion of the map and it's activities has nothing to do with that.

If your argument here is that it's simply too hard to collect numbers in a game ... well, that's a pretty subjective conclusion that Anet can't fix for you right?

My point is about Grothmar meta requirements too high (54 achievments i guess) and the grind a bit exagerated like the one tied shot event requires 300 shots, u get average 20 per event, u basically have to do the event 15 times and camp a isolated event, not tied to any meta or a more rewarding goal.

Sure, for you ... it is. For others it might not be. So my point is that whether you like it or not, Anet can't adjust it because of how you feel about it.

Anyone in AP hunting since ls3 will notice the pattern change. so its not about "feel", its clearly out of standarts.

[Obtena.7952]

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:Good thing there isn't a requirement to complete it to be successful in the game then .

but theres some "fun" on it, u feel like u really explored the content at end

In 2019-2020 i basically played episodes to see the histories and map completion(i have a geographic obscession) and then done.in december 2020 i started playing more hours on gw2.

Right .... it's fun to explore, no disagreement. The existence of an achievement related to a comprehensive completion of the map and it's activities has nothing to do with that.

If your argument here is that it's simply too hard to collect numbers in a game ... well, that's a pretty subjective conclusion that Anet can't fix for you right?

My point is about Grothmar meta requirements too high (54 achievments i guess) and the grind a bit exagerated like the one tied shot event requires 300 shots, u get average 20 per event, u basically have to do the event 15 times and camp a isolated event, not tied to any meta or a more rewarding goal.

Sure, for you ... it is. For others it might not be. So my point is that whether you like it or not, Anet can't adjust it because of how you feel about it.

Anyone in AP hunting since ls3 will notice the pattern change. so its not about "feel".

OK ... but that doesn't change what I said; whether they notice it or not doesn't imply they don't like it.

Your complaint IS based on how you feel about the change. Some other might not have a problem with that change.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@"Obtena.7952" said:OK ... but that doesn't change what I said; whether they notice it or not doesn't imply they don't like it.

Your complaint IS based on how you feel about the change. Some other might not have a problem with that change.

rofl, i have a very good memory, and i remember very well lots of complaints of this map odd grindy at time its lauched, justa few quotes.

I could understand many things, having to kill many enemies, requiring you to do events multiple times. Annoying, but not the worst. Even if some of the numbers are bit high.Next comes having to do the meta events many times over for achievements - again, it's annoying, but neither impossible nor something that one has to very much go out of their way for to finish, as meta events are usually what people are on a map for.Another step further - repeat the daily meta achievement 15 times. So, in other words, 15 days of doing dailies on the map. Still nothing one has to go out of their way for to finish, but it's really quite a long time. Half a month doing the dailies just for one achievement? I mean, with any halfway decent reward, people probably do that anyway. Maybe not grind per se, still an unnecessary long "wait time".

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/91501/grind-wars-bound-by-blood

It seems like Anets solution to lack of content is to make grindy achievements.I completed pretty much all the LWS 3 achievements and most of the LWS4 (I think I missed a Crack in the Ice because there were no spare achievements, and the one I was missing was in a story instance, and I didn't feel like playing through 10 minutes of that story chapter before I could even start the achievements).A lot from those maps seemed to be to cover really exploring the map - defeating all the notable bosses, scavenger hunt, etc. But with IBS, even with Grothmar Valley (last meta I've completed) it became grindy - destroy 100 devourer nests, do this event 20 times, etc.In my case, them being more grindy has backfired if Anet wants me to play more - I look at them, say "I'm never going to do all that kitten, so no reason even trying"

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118290/number-of-people-doing-living-world-meta-achievements-is-declining

[Obtena.7952]

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:OK ... but that doesn't change what I said; whether they notice it or not doesn't imply they don't like it.

Your complaint IS based on how you feel about the change. Some other might not have a problem with that change.

rofl, i have a very good memory, and i remember very well lots of complaints of this map odd grindy at time its lauched, justa few quotes.

OK ... again ... that doesn't change what I said. How good your memory is has nothing to do with who does and doesn't like the achievement design in the map OR how the game can't cater to yours or anyone else's individual feelings towards specific content.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:OK ... but that doesn't change what I said; whether they notice it or not doesn't imply they don't like it.

Your complaint IS based on how you feel about the change. Some other might not have a problem with that change.

rofl, i have a very good memory, and i remember very well lots of complaints of this map odd grindy at time its lauched, justa few quotes.

OK ... again ... that doesn't change what I said. How good your memory is has nothing to do with who does and doesn't like the achievement design in the map OR how the game can't cater to yours or anyone else's individual feelings towards specific content.

nope, the customer feelings matter, otherwise the game will be just press #1 buttom on blank map, and everyone be happy. Theres a reason why developers launch flashy outfits every month.

Perhaps the vocal minority the "die hards, every grind is fine" dont matter, and probably because of this the following episode, "Whispers in the Dark" is very less grind.

[Abelisk.5148]

An achievement that can't be completed in one sitting. Shocker.

[Obtena.7952]

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:OK ... but that doesn't change what I said; whether they notice it or not doesn't imply they don't like it.

Your complaint IS based on how you feel about the change. Some other might not have a problem with that change.

rofl, i have a very good memory, and i remember very well lots of complaints of this map odd grindy at time its lauched, justa few quotes.

OK ... again ... that doesn't change what I said. How good your memory is has nothing to do with who does and doesn't like the achievement design in the map OR how the game can't cater to yours or anyone else's individual feelings towards specific content.

nope, the customer feelings matter, otherwise the game will be just press #1 buttom on blank map, and everyone be happy. Theres a reason why developers launch flashy outfits every month.

Perhaps the vocal minority the "die hards, every grind is fine" dont matter, and probably because of this the following episode, "Whispers in the Dark" is very less grind.

You don't understand ... I'm not saying your feeling don't matter, so you can take it down a level on the sensationalism. I'm saying Anet can't cater the game design to whatever those feelings are, regardless who they come from. The game can't be customized to a a wide range of what 'people feel' is the 'way it should be' because everyone has their own ideas about what that is ... it's simply not practical. In fact, I think it's very possible the reason you see deviations like this case is because Anet is trying to see statistically what the limits are of what people find acceptable to improve future game content.

See, the big problem I have is that you have no overall idea of what players do and do not want. You simply know what YOU don't want. Except that isn't actually relevant for overall game design because the game isn't about you. For all we know, there could be a proportionally HIGH rate of completion for Grothmar achievements compared to other zones, despite how you feel about them.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@"Obtena.7952" said:You don't understand ... I'm not saying your feeling don't matter, so you can take it down a level on the sensationalism. I'm saying Anet can't cater the game design to whatever those feelings are, regardless who they come from. The game can't be customized to a a wide range of what 'people feel' is the 'way it should be' because everyone has their own ideas about what that is ... it's simply not practical.

U seems a very confused guy, the whole game design is about expectations about how players will perceive it, since day one, thats why promised "this will not like others MMOs in the market".

In fact, I think it's very possible the reason you see deviations like this case is because Anet is trying to see statistically what the limits are of what people find acceptable to improve future game content.

Anet is just filling lack of content with grind, like the last episode.

See, the big problem I have is that you have no overall idea of what players do and do not want. You simply know what YOU don't want. Except that isn't actually relevant for overall game design because the game isn't about you. For all we know, there could be a proportionally HIGH rate of completion for Grothmar achievements compared to other zones, despite how you feel about them.

Of course i understand very well many things, and i doubt that Grothmar have a "high rate of completion". ROFL. First because this opinion inst only mine, and second the Grothmar design wanst repetead so much, except last episode and easy beat why they are doing this.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Grind has been used in MMOs for decades to keep content relevant. I don’t see why there’s a complaint about its existence in this game and especially over a meta achievement where the reward is some AP and an emote you’ll likely never use after the first few days of acquiring it.

[Obtena.7952]

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:You don't understand ... I'm not saying your feeling don't matter, so you can take it down a level on the sensationalism.

I'm saying Anet can't cater the game design to whatever those feelings are, regardless who they come from

. The game can't be customized to a a wide range of what 'people feel' is the 'way it should be' because everyone has their own ideas about what that is ... it's simply not practical.

the whole game design is about expectations about how

players

will perceive it, ...

RIGHT ... PLAYERS ... the EVERYONE that plays this game. In otherwords, NOT just you. This statement seems based on some conclusion you made that players perceive this badly ... you simply don't know that. Pretending you speak for 'the players' doesn't change the fact that how you feel about the game is not relevant to it's design, nor is it a compelling reason for Anet to change it. Again, as I said for all we know there could be a proportionally HIGH rate of completion for Grothmar achievements compared to other zones, despite how you feel about them ... we just don't know.

Anet is just filling lack of content with grind, like the last episode.

That's absurd considering that 'grind' was part of a regular new content release ... but OK, you seem to have an axe to grind. You go with that. It's funny you complain about grind ... you DID the content your complaining about. You pretty much ruined your own point there you realize don't you?

i doubt that Grothmar have a "high rate of completion"

My point was that you DON'T KNOW if it does or not, so you can't sit there and honestly say your complaint is indicative of how players think. It's indicative of how YOU think.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@"Obtena.7952" said:RIGHT ... PLAYERS ... the EVERYONE that plays this game. In otherwords, NOT just you. I mean, if your argument is based on the fact that players perceive this badly ... you simply don't know that. I don't know why it's so hard to be honest here without you trying to pretend like you speak for the players.

As the same way u dont know if they perceive like me, but is easy to figure out.

That's absurd considering that 'grind' was part of a regular new content release ... but OK, you seem to have an axe to grind. You go with that. It's funny you complain about grind ... you DID the content your complaining about. You pretty much ruined your own point there you realize don't you?

I "did" the content didnt ruin my point, fill achievments with doing xx stuff is still a grind, no matter if I did it or not.

[Obtena.7952]

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:RIGHT ... PLAYERS ... the EVERYONE that plays this game. In otherwords, NOT just you. I mean, if your argument is based on the fact that players perceive this badly ... you simply don't know that. I don't know why it's so hard to be honest here without you trying to pretend like you speak for the players.

As the same way u dont know if they perceive like me, but is easy to figure out.

The difference is that you not knowing isn't OK because you are the one claiming that Grothmar is grindy because 'player perception'. Sure I don't know, but I'm not claiming anything here. That's my point ... NO one knows, so no one, including you, should be claiming anything about what 'players' think. Again, you DON'T know if what you think is indicative of what other players think, so don't pretend this is about 'the players' because you don't have statistically relevant data to suggest this is a generally accepted POV.

It's easy to figure out? Not for you. You don't have that data. Maybe you think you do. A few forum posts isn't it though.

I "did" the content didnt ruin my point, fill achievments with doing xx stuff is still a grind, no matter if I did it or not.

I mean, that simply proves you will do grindy content, which is EXACTLY why it's there, whether you like it or not. Grindy content 1, You 0 from where I sit. FOR YOU the content is grindy. That's not relevant to the design of the game because the game isn't designed around what you think it should or shouldn't be.

I'm going to make observation here. Grindy or not, you did the content. So from where I sit, the complaint here isn't really about 'grindy' content ... you just want easy achievements so you can feel accomplished as a 'game explorer' and your pretending you speak for a significant number of players to overly enphasize the severity of the grind. /shrug. The reality is that I'm sure that in SOME WAY, Anet has whatever data they need to see who's doing what in whatever zone and regardless of what anyone says, that's a much more significant measure of 'player perception' than any player making claims on everyone's behalf.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@"Obtena.7952" said:That's my point ... NO one knows, so no one, including you, should be claiming anything about what 'players' think. Again, you DON'T know if what you think is indicative of what other players think, so don't pretend this is about 'the players' because you don't have statistically relevant data to suggest this is a generally accepted POV.

A POV from a common customer can be a POV of many customers, since "no one knows".

Again, you DON'T know if what you think is indicative of what other players think, so don't pretend this is about 'the players'

Since no ones "knows anything", so anyone can pretend anything.

u are making fun of yourself trying arguing a boolean logic with a software delevoper(myself).

[Linken.6345]

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:That's my point ... NO one knows, so no one, including you, should be claiming anything about what 'players' think. Again, you DON'T know if what you think is indicative of what other players think, so don't pretend this is about 'the players' because you don't have statistically relevant data to suggest this is a generally accepted POV.

A POV from a common customer can be a POV of many customers, since "no one knows".

Again, you DON'T know if what you think is indicative of what other players think, so don't pretend this is about 'the players'

Since no ones "knows anything", so anyone can pretend anything.

u are making fun of yourself trying arguing a boolean logic with a software delevoper(myself).

No you write statements as if you know, but here you say you dont and in fact no one do.So stop doing it.

[Obtena.7952]

@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:That's my point ... NO one knows, so no one, including you, should be claiming anything about what 'players' think. Again, you DON'T know if what you think is indicative of what other players think, so don't pretend this is about 'the players' because you don't have statistically relevant data to suggest this is a generally accepted POV.

A POV from a common customer can be a POV of many customers, since "no one knows".

Right ... and that's why it makes no sense for Anet to favour any particular customer's POV because they can't cater to individual views of how the game works. GREAT!

Since no ones "knows anything", so anyone can pretend anything.u are making fun of yourself trying arguing a boolean logic with a software delevoper(myself).

That makes no sense. Again, making a guess and maybe being right isn't a compelling argument for Anet to change the game to how you think it should work. I love the irony that even though you claim you hate grind ... when Anet goes to look at the data, your checkmark goes into the 'players like Grothmar because of achievements completed box'. How is that for some 'making fun of yourself?' Looks good from here.