Blurred Frenzy

[thancock.6307]

First paragraph is background info, feel free to skip right to the 2nd paragraphSo I took a pretty extended break from the game and just recently started playing again the last week. I play all classes but power shatter mes has always been my favorite build in the game. I've done some roaming in wvw the last few days on power shatter and for the most part, it actually felt pretty solid running dom/duel/insp (I wish insp wasn't necessary to run but with all the condi roaming builds out there, its absolutely necessary). I was aware of the major damage rework they did a while ago where they toned down pretty much all damage and healing as well as basically did away with skills that CC'd and did damage at the same time. It was definitely noticeable with the GS 2 burst but overall, it feels healthy for the game.

The one biggest thing I noticed that seemed off was the damage from blurred frenzy. Even running full zerk, it just seems to be extremely underwhelming. When looking at the skills on main hand sword, sword is clearly meant to be an offensive weapon. The auto attack applies vuln and strips boons, and the 3 skill is a great single target immob. But the damage blurred frenzy does at the moment makes it feel exclusively defensive. So what I did was compare it to an extremely similar skill, unrelenting assault on revenant. Both skills are offensive skills with defensive utility, both skills hit multiple times, both skills evade all attacks during their duration. So I compared their base powers and there is a significant difference:

(These numbers are when both are at 1000 power just to keep things simple)Mesmer (sword 2): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PigAw+OAKAJAA-wRev (sword 3): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmQAwA-w

Blurred Frenzy base power: 360Unrelenting assault base power: 135*5= 675

So why is there such a drastic difference? What am I missing here? Obviously blurred frenzy only lasts 1 second as opposed to unrelenting assualt lasting 1.5 seconds but even if you take 360*1.5=540, its still significantly less base power/second. Not to mention unrelenting assault is significantly easier to land than blurred frenzy AND grants might on each hit. The only other reason I could think of is that mesmers can shatter while performing blurred frenzy so the base power should be lower but revenants do the same exact thing with legend swaps while using unrelenting assault. It would be nice to see blurred frenzy base power match unrelenting assault considering they're pretty much identical skills in terms of their use.

I know ArenaNet has always been hesitant to do any kind of mesmer buffs because its very easy for condition mesmer builds to get out of hand very quickly, but a slight base power increase for blurred frenzy is desperately needed for power builds and doing so wouldn't affect condition builds at all. Curious what others think

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"thancock.6307" said:First paragraph is background info, feel free to skip right to the 2nd paragraphSo I took a pretty extended break from the game and just recently started playing again the last week. I play all classes but power shatter mes has always been my favorite build in the game. I've done some roaming in wvw the last few days on power shatter and for the most part, it actually felt pretty solid running dom/duel/insp (I wish insp wasn't necessary to run but with all the condi roaming builds out there, its absolutely necessary). I was aware of the major damage rework they did a while ago where they toned down pretty much all damage and healing as well as basically did away with skills that CC'd and did damage at the same time. It was definitely noticeable with the GS 2 burst but overall, it feels healthy for the game.

The one biggest thing I noticed that seemed off was the damage from blurred frenzy. Even running full zerk, it just seems to be extremely underwhelming. When looking at the skills on main hand sword, sword is clearly meant to be an offensive weapon. The auto attack applies vuln and strips boons, and the 3 skill is a great single target immob. But the damage blurred frenzy does at the moment makes it feel exclusively defensive. So what I did was compare it to an extremely similar skill, unrelenting assault on revenant. Both skills are offensive skills with defensive utility, both skills hit multiple times, both skills evade all attacks during their duration. So I compared their base powers and there is a significant difference:

(These numbers are when both are at 1000 power just to keep things simple)Mesmer (sword 2): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PigAw+OAKAJAA-wRev (sword 3): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmQAwA-w

Blurred Frenzy base power: 360Unrelenting assault base power: 135*5= 675

So why is there such a drastic difference? What am I missing here? Obviously blurred frenzy only lasts 1 second as opposed to unrelenting assualt lasting 1.5 seconds but even if you take 360*1.5=540, its still significantly less base power/second. Not to mention unrelenting assault is significantly easier to land than blurred frenzy AND grants might on each hit. The only other reason I could think of is that mesmers can shatter while performing blurred frenzy so the base power should be lower but revenants do the same exact thing with legend swaps while using unrelenting assault. It would be nice to see blurred frenzy base power match unrelenting assault considering they're pretty much identical skills in terms of their use.

I know ArenaNet has always been hesitant to do any kind of mesmer buffs because its very easy for condition mesmer builds to get out of hand very quickly, but a slight base power increase for blurred frenzy is desperately needed for power builds and doing so wouldn't affect condition builds at all. Curious what others think

for pve, blurred is instant, you use blurred, you get the evade.unrelenting assault has a cast time, you see attack going, you use unrelenting, welp thats too late you got hit.as for pvp rev is played by the best and the best tend to win

[Jobber.6348]

Blurred Frenzy :Instant evade10s CD no external cost

Unrelenting Assault :Windup time of 0.5 seconds where the target can move out of range and puts skill into cooldown anyway12s CD, 15 Energy.

[Shroud.2307]

I don't even need to read all of that to tell you that comparing skills/traits/etc. between classes is never a good way to measure balance. It's an apples and oranges thing.It's like asking why Necromancer gets 19k base health and Elementalist gets 11k (Hint: because both have an entirely different set of resources to manage).

[Sobx.1758]

@"Shroud.2307" said:I don't even need to read all of that to tell you that comparing skills/traits/etc. between classes is never a good way to measure balance. It's an apples and oranges thing.It's like asking why Necromancer gets 19k base health and Elementalist gets 11k (Hint: because both have an entirely different set of resources to manage).

True, too bad so many people fail to understand this and just demand "copy-pasting" skills from other classes into "theirs" while disregarding anything else that class can do.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Yasai.3549 said:Windup time of 0.5 seconds where the target can move out of range and puts skill into cooldown anyway

That's so (being nice) not good, in my opinion... All skills, no matter the profession, if they miss or in any way don't land should go on a reduced cooldown. Would make for a more active combat. Now, some skills can even bug out and not hit (even when in range), and they still go on cooldown. It sucks when you get a full cooldown without the skill hitting. A cooldown should definitely happen, but a reduced one.

[Jobber.6348]

@"Sobx.1758" said:

True, too bad so many people fail to understand this and just demand "copy-pasting" skills from other classes into "theirs" while disregarding anything else that class can do.I want Warrior to have Engi's Rifle and vice versa tbh.Imagine :Warrior fighting in melee/midrange and pulling out Rifle for a Blunderbuss.

[Salt Mode.3780]

blurred is honestly a waste of a skill if you wanna go efficient/dmg wise scepter block is better then blurred there is nothing in sword that does dmg in pvp/wvw. Also fun fact not that blurred frenzy does dmg anyways, you take more dmg then you dish out dmg to the target if they have retaliation. MUCH LULZ

[Yoci.2481]

What I would like to see changed about Blurred Frenzy is that it should get a higher priority and ignore the after cast of other skills. A lot of times it seems to start a quarter of a second too late.

[Kodama.6453]

One thing not mentioned yet: blurred frenzy also is a cleaving ability, while unrelenting assault is a series of single target damage.This matters if there is more than one target you are attacking.

If there are 3 enemies in front of you and you use the skills, then blurred frenzy will hit all 3 of these targets with it's power coefficient of 3.0768/1.024 (PvE/PvP values respectively). The result is that you are dealing 9.2304/3.072 in total.

Unrelenting assault on the other hand will split it's 5 strikes evenly on these enemies, meaning that 2 of them will get hit with a power coefficient of 1.573/0.76 and one of them will just get hit for 0.7865/0.38. The total damage dealt as the end result is the same as if you would just hit 1 single enemy: 2.3595/1.14

[Salt Mode.3780]

It is quite funny when u say blurred frenzy is a cleaving ability but hits like wet noodles it aint cleaving no one, nowadays people use it as a utility to evade dmg not to cleave or dmg.

[thancock.6307]

Hey guys, one thing I had not considered was the windup time of unrelenting assault which is a fair point. The only reason I was comparing it was because blurred frenzy truly hits like a wet noodle. Even running full zerk, I'm maybe critting for 3.5k with it against other glass targets, and thats assuming I land each hit. My hydro/leeching swap has more offensive presence than blurred frenzy. Only reason I started comparing it was because the damage felt really off. If sword is just destined to be a purely defensive weapon, I can live with that. It just really feels like its holding back power builds at the moment.

[Infusion.7149]

Not sure why you're roaming on power mesmer post Feb 2020 nerfs. You're better off being a cheesy condi mesmer of some sort (chrono or core) in trailblazer's or dire.

Blurred frenzy should be used purely for the evade frame now as the power coefficient is ~1.0 in WVW. Blurred Frenzy will often times result in you taking more damage than you hit for if the target has retaliation. Most of the damage on power mesmer is going to be from phantasms or f1 shatters. If you don't complete a full auto chain, you actually do more damage per hit on Greatsword (the min damage is 0.45 coefficient) than sword (first two hits have 0.5 power coefficient on a weapon strength of 1000 which is lower than Greatsword's 1100), even if sustained (DPS) damage is lower due to slower attack rate. In WvW where boons on a target are common, the max damage on sword auto isn't going to be attained most of the time which is why people run chronos for boon rip.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Yoci.2481 said:What I would like to see changed about Blurred Frenzy is that it should get a higher priority and ignore the after cast of other skills. A lot of times it seems to start a quarter of a second too late.

thats due to sword auto-attacks having MASSIVE aftercasts, thats why when you auto-attack be ready to use normal dodge and not blurred

[thancock.6307]

@Infusion.7149 said:Not sure why you're roaming on power mesmer post Feb 2020 nerfs. You're better off being a cheesy condi mesmer of some sort (chrono or core) in trailblazer's or dire.

Blurred frenzy should be used purely for the evade frame now as the power coefficient is ~1.0 in WVW. Blurred Frenzy will often times result in you taking more damage than you hit for if the target has retaliation. Most of the damage on power mesmer is going to be from phantasms or f1 shatters. If you don't complete a full auto chain, you actually do more damage per hit on Greatsword (the min damage is 0.45 coefficient) than sword (first two hits have 0.5 power coefficient on a weapon strength of 1000 which is lower than Greatsword's 1100), even if sustained (DPS) damage is lower due to slower attack rate. In WvW where boons on a target are common, the max damage on sword auto isn't going to be attained most of the time which is why people run chronos for boon rip.

Yea I'm pretty aware I'd probably be better off running a cheesy condi mesmer, but as I mentioned, power shatter has always been my favorite build in the game going back to vanilla. Which is why the current damage on blurred frenzy is somewhat frustrating and why not too many people have really mentioned its a problem because I don't think that many other people are playing it. You used to be able to punish over-aggressive play with it and it also used to be one of your best counters to thieves (power shatter's hard counter) as you could predict the backstab and basically reverse the damage back on them. Now its purely a defensive skill. I'm not asking for a crazy buff to blurred, really just something like a 20% base damage increase so that it has some offensive use again.

[Senqu.8054]

It is a huge problem. Since GS is now the only weapon that does power damage at all, how are we supposed to play a other build then the classic power shatter. Everyone is complaining about „One-Shot“ Builds but there is not a single intention to allow other skills to do damage because of that. We are basically limited to play like we did when the game was released with the little difference that we have LESS things we can do then before. I can’t play staff on power I can’t play scepter on power, if I take 1H sword i am forced to take GS. Build diversity went down the hill with the especs. Give us viable damage on our skills back, you god damn thieves!

[Yoci.2481]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Yoci.2481 said:What I would like to see changed about Blurred Frenzy is that it should get a higher priority and ignore the after cast of other skills. A lot of times it seems to start a quarter of a second too late.

thats due to sword auto-attacks having MASSIVE aftercasts, thats why when you auto-attack be ready to use normal dodge and not blurred

Yes I know that but some abilities can ignore after casts and I think Blurred Frenzy should ignore it too.