EoD expansion should have new RAID

[Captain Kuro.8937]

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:I don't believe the core game wasn't good enough to convert players. In, fact, I feel like in many ways the core game is worse now than it was. Heart of THorns launched in 2015, new expansion, first expansion everyone was excited. It was a big deal. Announced at a big con. But 2016 dropped below 2014, before HoT launched. The core game was more successful. It had more casual players. I agree with your numbers, but your way of interpreting those numbers isn't better than my way. The truth is no one will ever really know, but if HoT and raids were a strong release, you wouldn't see the year before the expansion launched being much stronger than the year after it launched, particularly because it launched near the end of the year.

Didn't you just bring up the massive 9 month content drought that followed up HoT, consisting of most of 2016, explaining that drop?Player's left because there wasn't any content for the game for almost a year, except for the already largely preproduced 3 Raid Wings.Nobody is saying Raids can single handedly carry GW2, as if we needed proof of that, but 2016's revenue was it.

But in that Wing 1-3 era , we saw the lowest revenue drop of the history of the game .

So you are going to just ignore the massively detrimental 9 month content drought in which those 3 Wings happened to come out, having already largely been preproduced with HoT, just to make your point that they were, somehow, the cause of the drop (which was neither the biggest, nor barely bigger than the drop we had with constant LW releases)?

The amount of mental gymnastics, selective ignorance, making up sci-fi data collection methods all while ignoring, or depriving context of, real data that we have to justify this inexplicable hate against any and all content that as tiny exception in this game doesn't appeal to you, while arguably worse competitor products thrive with it in the same market, is truly something to behold.

What has to do the 9 months . When the Wing 3 has ended we saw a tremendous downfall ?Yes ...i am the ignorant

[Asum.4960]

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:I don't believe the core game wasn't good enough to convert players. In, fact, I feel like in many ways the core game is worse now than it was. Heart of THorns launched in 2015, new expansion, first expansion everyone was excited. It was a big deal. Announced at a big con. But 2016 dropped below 2014, before HoT launched. The core game was more successful. It had more casual players. I agree with your numbers, but your way of interpreting those numbers isn't better than my way. The truth is no one will ever really know, but if HoT and raids were a strong release, you wouldn't see the year before the expansion launched being much stronger than the year after it launched, particularly because it launched near the end of the year.

Didn't you just bring up the massive 9 month content drought that followed up HoT, consisting of most of 2016, explaining that drop?Player's left because there wasn't any content for the game for almost a year, except for the already largely preproduced 3 Raid Wings.Nobody is saying Raids can single handedly carry GW2, as if we needed proof of that, but 2016's revenue was it.

But in that Wing 1-3 era , we saw the lowest revenue drop of the history of the game .

So you are going to just ignore the massively detrimental 9 month content drought in which those 3 Wings happened to come out, having already largely been preproduced with HoT, just to make your point that they were, somehow, the cause of the drop (which was neither the biggest, nor barely bigger than the drop we had with constant LW releases)?

The amount of mental gymnastics, selective ignorance, making up sci-fi data collection methods all while ignoring, or depriving context of, real data that we have to justify this inexplicable hate against any and all content that as tiny exception in this game doesn't appeal to you, while arguably worse competitor products thrive with it in the same market, is truly something to behold.

What has to do the 9 months . When the Wing 3 has ended we saw a tremendous downfall ?Yes ...i am the ignorant

So you see no correlation between the game receiving no broadly appealing (or other niche) content whatsoever for 9 whole months and a significant revenue drop, but propose that people just packed up and left because at least a 3rd Raid Wing happened to be added to the game around that time?

That's what you are going with, really?

[Captain Kuro.8937]

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@"Vayne.8563" said:I don't believe the core game wasn't good enough to convert players. In, fact, I feel like in many ways the core game is worse now than it was. Heart of THorns launched in 2015, new expansion, first expansion everyone was excited. It was a big deal. Announced at a big con. But 2016 dropped below 2014, before HoT launched. The core game was more successful. It had more casual players. I agree with your numbers, but your way of interpreting those numbers isn't better than my way. The truth is no one will ever really know, but if HoT and raids were a strong release, you wouldn't see the year before the expansion launched being much stronger than the year after it launched, particularly because it launched near the end of the year.

Didn't you just bring up the massive 9 month content drought that followed up HoT, consisting of most of 2016, explaining that drop?Player's left because there wasn't any content for the game for almost a year, except for the already largely preproduced 3 Raid Wings.Nobody is saying Raids can single handedly carry GW2, as if we needed proof of that, but 2016's revenue was it.

But in that Wing 1-3 era , we saw the lowest revenue drop of the history of the game .

So you are going to just ignore the massively detrimental 9 month content drought in which those 3 Wings happened to come out, having already largely been preproduced with HoT, just to make your point that they were, somehow, the cause of the drop (which was neither the biggest, nor barely bigger than the drop we had with constant LW releases)?

The amount of mental gymnastics, selective ignorance, making up sci-fi data collection methods all while ignoring, or depriving context of, real data that we have to justify this inexplicable hate against any and all content that as tiny exception in this game doesn't appeal to you, while arguably worse competitor products thrive with it in the same market, is truly something to behold.

What has to do the 9 months . When the Wing 3 has ended we saw a tremendous downfall ?Yes ...i am the ignorant

So you see no correlation between the game receiving no broadly appealing (or other niche) content whatsoever for 9 whole months and a significant revenue drop, but propose that people just packed up and left because a 3rd Raid Wing happened to be added to the game around that time?

That's what you are going with, really?

I am sorry ,the only think i see that the same month that Wing 3 was released , we saw the lowest amount of revenue of the game .It seems ,like hardcore stuff was not pleasing to the majority of the community as some person i am responding to is saying otherwise .And i have a Oracle before me , saying that the revenu drop , was because of the "Future" 9 month content drop that was going to happen AFTER the q2 2016

Again ...i am the ignorantIt might be , because i lack KP/LI

[maddoctor.2738]

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:I am sorry ,the only think i see that the same month that Wing 3 was released , we saw the lowest amount of revenue of the game .

The lowest amount of revenue of the game was in Q4 2019, not when Wing 3 was released. There were no Raids in Q4 2019 at all. And nice of you to change your argument from W1-3 to just W3, I guess you understood when W1 and W2 were released.

[Asum.4960]

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@"Vayne.8563" said:I don't believe the core game wasn't good enough to convert players. In, fact, I feel like in many ways the core game is worse now than it was. Heart of THorns launched in 2015, new expansion, first expansion everyone was excited. It was a big deal. Announced at a big con. But 2016 dropped below 2014, before HoT launched. The core game was more successful. It had more casual players. I agree with your numbers, but your way of interpreting those numbers isn't better than my way. The truth is no one will ever really know, but if HoT and raids were a strong release, you wouldn't see the year before the expansion launched being much stronger than the year after it launched, particularly because it launched near the end of the year.

Didn't you just bring up the massive 9 month content drought that followed up HoT, consisting of most of 2016, explaining that drop?Player's left because there wasn't any content for the game for almost a year, except for the already largely preproduced 3 Raid Wings.Nobody is saying Raids can single handedly carry GW2, as if we needed proof of that, but 2016's revenue was it.

But in that Wing 1-3 era , we saw the lowest revenue drop of the history of the game .

So you are going to just ignore the massively detrimental 9 month content drought in which those 3 Wings happened to come out, having already largely been preproduced with HoT, just to make your point that they were, somehow, the cause of the drop (which was neither the biggest, nor barely bigger than the drop we had with constant LW releases)?

The amount of mental gymnastics, selective ignorance, making up sci-fi data collection methods all while ignoring, or depriving context of, real data that we have to justify this inexplicable hate against any and all content that as tiny exception in this game doesn't appeal to you, while arguably worse competitor products thrive with it in the same market, is truly something to behold.

What has to do the 9 months . When the Wing 3 has ended we saw a tremendous downfall ?Yes ...i am the ignorant

So you see no correlation between the game receiving no broadly appealing (or other niche) content whatsoever for 9 whole months and a significant revenue drop, but propose that people just packed up and left because a 3rd Raid Wing happened to be added to the game around that time?

That's what you are going with, really?

I am sorry ,the only think i see that the same month that Wing 3 was released , we saw the lowest amount of revenue of the game .It seems ,like hardcore stuff was not pleasing to the majority of the community as some person i am responding to is saying otherwise .And i have a Oracle before me , saying that the revenu drop , was because of the "Future" 9 month content drop that was going to happen AFTER the q2 2016

Again ...i am the ignorantIt might be , because i lack KP/LI

Well, this might be embarrassing, but Wing 3 (and the Q2 '16 revenue drop) was 8 months into the content drought, a month after which, on July 26, 2016, LW with Out of the Shadows started back up again (which btw, didn't recover revenue either).

No oracle needed.

[Captain Kuro.8937]

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@"Vayne.8563" said:I don't believe the core game wasn't good enough to convert players. In, fact, I feel like in many ways the core game is worse now than it was. Heart of THorns launched in 2015, new expansion, first expansion everyone was excited. It was a big deal. Announced at a big con. But 2016 dropped below 2014, before HoT launched. The core game was more successful. It had more casual players. I agree with your numbers, but your way of interpreting those numbers isn't better than my way. The truth is no one will ever really know, but if HoT and raids were a strong release, you wouldn't see the year before the expansion launched being much stronger than the year after it launched, particularly because it launched near the end of the year.

Didn't you just bring up the massive 9 month content drought that followed up HoT, consisting of most of 2016, explaining that drop?Player's left because there wasn't any content for the game for almost a year, except for the already largely preproduced 3 Raid Wings.Nobody is saying Raids can single handedly carry GW2, as if we needed proof of that, but 2016's revenue was it.

But in that Wing 1-3 era , we saw the lowest revenue drop of the history of the game .

So you are going to just ignore the massively detrimental 9 month content drought in which those 3 Wings happened to come out, having already largely been preproduced with HoT, just to make your point that they were, somehow, the cause of the drop (which was neither the biggest, nor barely bigger than the drop we had with constant LW releases)?

The amount of mental gymnastics, selective ignorance, making up sci-fi data collection methods all while ignoring, or depriving context of, real data that we have to justify this inexplicable hate against any and all content that as tiny exception in this game doesn't appeal to you, while arguably worse competitor products thrive with it in the same market, is truly something to behold.

What has to do the 9 months . When the Wing 3 has ended we saw a tremendous downfall ?Yes ...i am the ignorant

So you see no correlation between the game receiving no broadly appealing (or other niche) content whatsoever for 9 whole months and a significant revenue drop, but propose that people just packed up and left because a 3rd Raid Wing happened to be added to the game around that time?

That's what you are going with, really?

I am sorry ,the only think i see that the same month that Wing 3 was released , we saw the lowest amount of revenue of the game .It seems ,like hardcore stuff was not pleasing to the majority of the community as some person i am responding to is saying otherwise .And i have a Oracle before me , saying that the revenu drop , was because of the "Future" 9 month content drop that was going to happen AFTER the q2 2016

Again ...i am the ignorantIt might be , because i lack KP/LI

Well, this might be embarrassing, but Wing 3 (and the revenue drop) was 8 months into the content drought, a month after which, on July 26, 2016, LW with Out of the Shadows started back up again (which btw, didn't recover revenue).

No oracle needed.

It need , because the circle of WoW raids is 2-3 months .There is no 9 months content drought ,that you Oracle-ness is saying .Thus Raids didn't offer the Revenue increase as you said in 2016

[Captain Kuro.8937]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:I am sorry ,the only think i see that the same month that Wing 3 was released , we saw the lowest amount of revenue of the game .

The lowest amount of revenue of the game was in Q4 2019, not when Wing 3 was released. There were no Raids in Q4 2019 at all. And nice of you to change your argument from W1-3 to just W3, I guess you understood when W1 and W2 were released.

Yeah , but no 3quarters BACK TO BACK , focusing on hardcoreIts like PoF , a more casual friendly did the job

And yeah ,in W1-W2 people bought accounts ,to play the game

[Cyninja.2954]

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@"Vayne.8563" said:I don't believe the core game wasn't good enough to convert players. In, fact, I feel like in many ways the core game is worse now than it was. Heart of THorns launched in 2015, new expansion, first expansion everyone was excited. It was a big deal. Announced at a big con. But 2016 dropped below 2014, before HoT launched. The core game was more successful. It had more casual players. I agree with your numbers, but your way of interpreting those numbers isn't better than my way. The truth is no one will ever really know, but if HoT and raids were a strong release, you wouldn't see the year before the expansion launched being much stronger than the year after it launched, particularly because it launched near the end of the year.

Didn't you just bring up the massive 9 month content drought that followed up HoT, consisting of most of 2016, explaining that drop?Player's left because there wasn't any content for the game for almost a year, except for the already largely preproduced 3 Raid Wings.Nobody is saying Raids can single handedly carry GW2, as if we needed proof of that, but 2016's revenue was it.

But in that Wing 1-3 era , we saw the lowest revenue drop of the history of the game .

So you are going to just ignore the massively detrimental 9 month content drought in which those 3 Wings happened to come out, having already largely been preproduced with HoT, just to make your point that they were, somehow, the cause of the drop (which was neither the biggest, nor barely bigger than the drop we had with constant LW releases)?

The amount of mental gymnastics, selective ignorance, making up sci-fi data collection methods all while ignoring, or depriving context of, real data that we have to justify this inexplicable hate against any and all content that as tiny exception in this game doesn't appeal to you, while arguably worse competitor products thrive with it in the same market, is truly something to behold.

What has to do the 9 months . When the Wing 3 has ended we saw a tremendous downfall ?Yes ...i am the ignorant

So you see no correlation between the game receiving no broadly appealing (or other niche) content whatsoever for 9 whole months and a significant revenue drop, but propose that people just packed up and left because a 3rd Raid Wing happened to be added to the game around that time?

That's what you are going with, really?

I am sorry ,the only think i see that the same month that Wing 3 was released , we saw the lowest amount of revenue of the game .It seems ,like hardcore stuff was not pleasing to the majority of the community as some person i am responding to is saying otherwise .And i have a Oracle before me , saying that the revenu drop , was because of the "Future" 9 month content drop that was going to happen AFTER the q2 2016

Again ...i am the ignorantIt might be , because i lack KP/LI

Well, this might be embarrassing, but Wing 3 (and the revenue drop) was 8 months into the content drought, a month after which, on July 26, 2016, LW with Out of the Shadows started back up again (which btw, didn't recover revenue).

No oracle needed.

It need , because the circle of WoW raids is 2-3 months .There is no 9 months content drought ,that you Oracle-ness is saying .Thus Raids didn't offer the Revenue increase as you said in 2016

Okay, what does the GUILD WARS 2 content drought (not only raid related) in THIS game have to do with WoWs raid release schedule?

I mean you have been wrong about most other stuff so far, easily checked with just alligning release dates and financial reports, and pointed out by others.

Is this just you shifting to another nonsense "argument"?

Fine, I'll bite: WoW raids release in the schedules they do in order to keep the loot threadmill running (and it takes around 3 months to max out on gear for dedicated players). That does not apply the same way to GW2. The content drought in question here was the period between the release of HoT and Episode 1 of season 3.

[Captain Kuro.8937]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@"Vayne.8563" said:I don't believe the core game wasn't good enough to convert players. In, fact, I feel like in many ways the core game is worse now than it was. Heart of THorns launched in 2015, new expansion, first expansion everyone was excited. It was a big deal. Announced at a big con. But 2016 dropped below 2014, before HoT launched. The core game was more successful. It had more casual players. I agree with your numbers, but your way of interpreting those numbers isn't better than my way. The truth is no one will ever really know, but if HoT and raids were a strong release, you wouldn't see the year before the expansion launched being much stronger than the year after it launched, particularly because it launched near the end of the year.

Didn't you just bring up the massive 9 month content drought that followed up HoT, consisting of most of 2016, explaining that drop?Player's left because there wasn't any content for the game for almost a year, except for the already largely preproduced 3 Raid Wings.Nobody is saying Raids can single handedly carry GW2, as if we needed proof of that, but 2016's revenue was it.

But in that Wing 1-3 era , we saw the lowest revenue drop of the history of the game .

So you are going to just ignore the massively detrimental 9 month content drought in which those 3 Wings happened to come out, having already largely been preproduced with HoT, just to make your point that they were, somehow, the cause of the drop (which was neither the biggest, nor barely bigger than the drop we had with constant LW releases)?

The amount of mental gymnastics, selective ignorance, making up sci-fi data collection methods all while ignoring, or depriving context of, real data that we have to justify this inexplicable hate against any and all content that as tiny exception in this game doesn't appeal to you, while arguably worse competitor products thrive with it in the same market, is truly something to behold.

What has to do the 9 months . When the Wing 3 has ended we saw a tremendous downfall ?Yes ...i am the ignorant

So you see no correlation between the game receiving no broadly appealing (or other niche) content whatsoever for 9 whole months and a significant revenue drop, but propose that people just packed up and left because a 3rd Raid Wing happened to be added to the game around that time?

That's what you are going with, really?

I am sorry ,the only think i see that the same month that Wing 3 was released , we saw the lowest amount of revenue of the game .It seems ,like hardcore stuff was not pleasing to the majority of the community as some person i am responding to is saying otherwise .And i have a Oracle before me , saying that the revenu drop , was because of the "Future" 9 month content drop that was going to happen AFTER the q2 2016

Again ...i am the ignorantIt might be , because i lack KP/LI

Well, this might be embarrassing, but Wing 3 (and the revenue drop) was 8 months into the content drought, a month after which, on July 26, 2016, LW with Out of the Shadows started back up again (which btw, didn't recover revenue).

No oracle needed.

It need , because the circle of WoW raids is 2-3 months .There is no 9 months content drought ,that you Oracle-ness is saying .Thus Raids didn't offer the Revenue increase as you said in 2016

Okay, what does the GUILD WARS 2 content drought (not only raid related) in THIS game have to do with WoWs raid release schedule?

I mean you have been wrong about most other stuff so far, easily checked with just alligning release dates and financial reports, and pointed iut by others.

Is this just you shifting to another nonsense "argument"?

Fine, I'll bite: WoW raids release in the schedules they do in order to keep the loot threadmill running (and it takes around 3 months to max out on gear for dedicated players). That does not apply the same way to GW2.

And the same schedule is released in GW2 . 3monthsAnd at the end/middle of the 3rd , it didnt bring the revenue that Asum SaidIt had the opposite effects

[maddoctor.2738]

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:I am sorry ,the only think i see that the same month that Wing 3 was released , we saw the lowest amount of revenue of the game .

The lowest amount of revenue of the game was in Q4 2019, not when Wing 3 was released. There were no Raids in Q4 2019 at all. And nice of you to change your argument from W1-3 to just W3, I guess you understood when W1 and W2 were released.

Yeah , but no 3quarters BACK TO BACK , focusing on hardcore

In Q3 2016 there were 2 living world releases, nothing changed, in Q4 2016 there was 1 living world release, nothing changed, in Q1 2017, Q2 2017 and Q3 2017 there was one living world release on each. Nothing changed. Zero "focus on hardcore", full focus on non-hardcore (there was only one Raid release in that time). What happened?

Its like PoF , a more casual friendly did the job

POF was the first time Arenanet changed to a full gem store experience. There were more outfits, more black lion chests, more new items (chairs), more expensive outfit bundles, there were instant-level 80 boosters, account bound slots and of course the million gem industry: mounts. And you are gonna tell me that POF was more casual and that caused higher revenue?

Check this thread about how POF is considered by many worse than HOT:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/124747/dont-like-the-pof-expansion-areas-very-much/p1and talking about more casual people too.

[Asum.4960]

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:I am sorry ,the only think i see that the same month that Wing 3 was released , we saw the lowest amount of revenue of the game .

The lowest amount of revenue of the game was in Q4 2019, not when Wing 3 was released. There were no Raids in Q4 2019 at all. And nice of you to change your argument from W1-3 to just W3, I guess you understood when W1 and W2 were released.

Yeah , but no 3quarters BACK TO BACK , focusing on hardcore

Calling them releasing no content after HoT for 9 months besides a few Raid Wings that happened to be mostly done during HoT development but didn't make it time "focusing on Hardcore content" is a bit of a stretch, no?

Claiming those releases that did happen are THE reason for the revenue drop, rather than the lack of everything else, ludicrous.

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:Its like PoF , a more casual friendly did the job

Did it? Revenue, despite Mount Skins and other fairly aggressive Gemstore moves and constant LW releases, still dropped almost just as low, and even surpassed the low of the HoT drought.

Clearly the game needed (and still needs) another Expansion with a variety of content and features, not just more OW and Story as LW provides.

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:And at the end/middle of the 3rd , it didnt bring the revenue that Asum SaidIt had the opposite effects

Look, if your measure of success or failure of Raids is whether a Raid Wing singlehandedly can counter balance 8 months of zero other content for the game and maintain an expansion high in revenue, then yes, Raids will always be a "failure" by your metrics.

The problem with that is just that it's incredibly dishonest and silly to make that point.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Asum.4960 said:

@"Captain Kuro.8937" said:Its like PoF , a more casual friendly did the job

Did it? Revenue, despite Mount Skins and other fairly aggressive Gemstore moves and constant LW releases, still dropped almost just as low, and even surpassed the low of the HoT drought.

Clearly the game needed (and still needs) another Expansion with a variety of content and features, not just more OW and Story as LW provides.

This is actually a huge issue often overlooked in these forum "discussions". If we were to factor for actual monetization during HoT and PoF, PoF would have performed far far far worse.

Not sure if most players remember, but there was a time when there was almost NOTHING "worth" buying off the gem store. Meanwhile buying keys, skins, mount skins, special weapon skins, time limited sales, etc. is pretty much the norm. Yet the game performs worse and worse.

[Captain Kuro.8937]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:I am sorry ,the only think i see that the same month that Wing 3 was released , we saw the lowest amount of revenue of the game .

The lowest amount of revenue of the game was in Q4 2019, not when Wing 3 was released. There were no Raids in Q4 2019 at all. And nice of you to change your argument from W1-3 to just W3, I guess you understood when W1 and W2 were released.

Yeah , but no 3quarters BACK TO BACK , focusing on hardcore

In Q3 2016 there were 2 living world releases, nothing changed, in Q4 2016 there was 1 living world release, nothing changed, in Q1 2017, Q2 2017 and Q3 2017 there was one living world release on each. Nothing changed. Zero "focus on hardcore", full focus on non-hardcore (there was only one Raid release in that time). What happened?

Its like PoF , a more casual friendly did the job

POF was the first time Arenanet changed to a full gem store experience. There were more outfits, more black lion chests, more new items (chairs), more expensive outfit bundles, there were instant-level 80 boosters, account bound slots and of course the million gem industry: mounts. And you are gonna tell me that POF was more casual and that caused higher revenue?

Check this thread about how POF is considered by many worse than HOT:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/124747/dont-like-the-pof-expansion-areas-very-much/p1

and talking about more casual people too.

The Q3 , shows the the money you get from the previous 3 months .Raids + hardcore World had the oposite effects

The had the same demonized schedule with Wing in Gemstore .But most people wont buy something that is use "occassianny" when jumping

[Captain Kuro.8937]

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:I am sorry ,the only think i see that the same month that Wing 3 was released , we saw the lowest amount of revenue of the game .

The lowest amount of revenue of the game was in Q4 2019, not when Wing 3 was released. There were no Raids in Q4 2019 at all. And nice of you to change your argument from W1-3 to just W3, I guess you understood when W1 and W2 were released.

Yeah , but no 3quarters BACK TO BACK , focusing on hardcore

Calling them releasing no content after HoT for 9 months besides a few Raid Wings that happened to be mostly done during HoT development but didn't make it time "focusing on Hardcore content" is a bit of a stretch, no?

Claiming those releases that did happen are THE reason for the revenue drop, rather than the lack of everything else, ludicrous.

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:Its like PoF , a more casual friendly did the job

Did it? Revenue, despite Mount Skins and other fairly aggressive Gemstore moves and constant LW releases, still dropped almost just as low, and even surpassed the low of the HoT drought.

Clearly the game needed (and still needs) another Expansion with a variety of content and features, not just more OW and Story as LW provides.

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:And at the end/middle of the 3rd , it didnt bring the revenue that Asum SaidIt had the opposite effects

Look, if your measure of success or failure of Raids is whether a Raid Wing singlehandedly can counter balance 8 months of zero other content for the game and maintain an expansion high in revenue, then yes, Raids will always be a "failure" by your metrics.

The problem with that is just that it's incredibly dishonest and silly to make that point.

You have 3 months content after content . With lost revenue .And casuals whined there are KP + damage meters . But you again then ignored it

[Asum.4960]

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:I am sorry ,the only think i see that the same month that Wing 3 was released , we saw the lowest amount of revenue of the game .

The lowest amount of revenue of the game was in Q4 2019, not when Wing 3 was released. There were no Raids in Q4 2019 at all. And nice of you to change your argument from W1-3 to just W3, I guess you understood when W1 and W2 were released.

Yeah , but no 3quarters BACK TO BACK , focusing on hardcore

Calling them releasing no content after HoT for 9 months besides a few Raid Wings that happened to be mostly done during HoT development but didn't make it time "focusing on Hardcore content" is a bit of a stretch, no?

Claiming those releases that did happen are THE reason for the revenue drop, rather than the lack of everything else, ludicrous.

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:Its like PoF , a more casual friendly did the job

Did it? Revenue, despite Mount Skins and other fairly aggressive Gemstore moves and constant LW releases, still dropped almost just as low, and even surpassed the low of the HoT drought.

Clearly the game needed (and still needs) another Expansion with a variety of content and features, not just more OW and Story as LW provides.

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:And at the end/middle of the 3rd , it didnt bring the revenue that Asum SaidIt had the opposite effects

Look, if your measure of success or failure of Raids is whether a Raid Wing singlehandedly can counter balance 8 months of zero other content for the game and maintain an expansion high in revenue, then yes, Raids will always be a "failure" by your metrics.

The problem with that is just that it's incredibly dishonest and silly to make that point.

You have 3 months content after content . With lost revenue

And if the argument was that Anet should do nothing but release a Raid Wing every 3 months and the game would be fine, you would have a point.Unfortunately, no one is making that argument.

[Captain Kuro.8937]

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:I am sorry ,the only think i see that the same month that Wing 3 was released , we saw the lowest amount of revenue of the game .

The lowest amount of revenue of the game was in Q4 2019, not when Wing 3 was released. There were no Raids in Q4 2019 at all. And nice of you to change your argument from W1-3 to just W3, I guess you understood when W1 and W2 were released.

Yeah , but no 3quarters BACK TO BACK , focusing on hardcore

Calling them releasing no content after HoT for 9 months besides a few Raid Wings that happened to be mostly done during HoT development but didn't make it time "focusing on Hardcore content" is a bit of a stretch, no?

Claiming those releases that did happen are THE reason for the revenue drop, rather than the lack of everything else, ludicrous.

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:Its like PoF , a more casual friendly did the job

Did it? Revenue, despite Mount Skins and other fairly aggressive Gemstore moves and constant LW releases, still dropped almost just as low, and even surpassed the low of the HoT drought.

Clearly the game needed (and still needs) another Expansion with a variety of content and features, not just more OW and Story as LW provides.

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:And at the end/middle of the 3rd , it didnt bring the revenue that Asum SaidIt had the opposite effects

Look, if your measure of success or failure of Raids is whether a Raid Wing singlehandedly can counter balance 8 months of zero other content for the game and maintain an expansion high in revenue, then yes, Raids will always be a "failure" by your metrics.

The problem with that is just that it's incredibly dishonest and silly to make that point.

You have 3 months content after content . With lost revenue

And if the argument was that Anet should do nothing but release a Raid Wing every 3 months and the game would be fine, you would have a point.Unfortunately, no one is making that argument.

And if some people didn't witchunt casuals (stop whining about KP) . And insteads tell the company to release an easy mode , we wouldnt have this conversation . With the 3 of you

[maddoctor.2738]

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:And if some people didn't witchunt casuals (stop whining about KP) . And insteads tell the company to release an easy mode , we wouldnt have this conversation . With the 3 of you

Fractals have an easy mode, they have an even lower release cadence than Raids. So this argumentation of yours about an easy mode doesn't really hold.

[Obtena.7952]

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@yukarishura.4790 said:@Obtena.7952

GW2 had no problems for the first three years when it didn't have raids and it hasn't died in the last two years since we stopped getting more.

Nothing to do with raids, GW2 had no problems in the first three years because it was a new game that sparked interest, especially people who were known with the franchise, now look at how the game is in 2021 and you will see it went downhill due to its incapacity to develop content regularly, including raids. Stop twisting the argument with the first years when the game was slow-paced, it took forever to get to level 80, it engaged people into finishing their world map and dungeons and some living world story, after that they tried to resurrect with the expansion etc So the argument of wow the game was doing well before raids has 0 value here

But the argument , that when raids/hardcore stuff can retain the players attention instead of snoozefest of Open world PvE is also wrong , shown by the graph .It got even lower (lol) , just like Wildstar

All the graph shows is revenue. It DOESN'T show there is a relationship between the existences of raids and 'hardcore player retention' ... if it does, then hardcore player retention does NOT result in significant revenue shifts.

[Captain Kuro.8937]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:And if some people didn't witchunt casuals (stop whining about KP) . And insteads tell the company to release an easy mode , we wouldnt have this conversation . With the 3 of you

Fractals have an easy mode, they have an even lower release cadence than Raids. So this argumentation of yours about an easy mode doesn't really hold.

Where is the stats ? The majority of the players are in Tier1 and in Tier3 .

[Asum.4960]

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:I am sorry ,the only think i see that the same month that Wing 3 was released , we saw the lowest amount of revenue of the game .

The lowest amount of revenue of the game was in Q4 2019, not when Wing 3 was released. There were no Raids in Q4 2019 at all. And nice of you to change your argument from W1-3 to just W3, I guess you understood when W1 and W2 were released.

Yeah , but no 3quarters BACK TO BACK , focusing on hardcore

Calling them releasing no content after HoT for 9 months besides a few Raid Wings that happened to be mostly done during HoT development but didn't make it time "focusing on Hardcore content" is a bit of a stretch, no?

Claiming those releases that did happen are THE reason for the revenue drop, rather than the lack of everything else, ludicrous.

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:Its like PoF , a more casual friendly did the job

Did it? Revenue, despite Mount Skins and other fairly aggressive Gemstore moves and constant LW releases, still dropped almost just as low, and even surpassed the low of the HoT drought.

Clearly the game needed (and still needs) another Expansion with a variety of content and features, not just more OW and Story as LW provides.

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:And at the end/middle of the 3rd , it didnt bring the revenue that Asum SaidIt had the opposite effects

Look, if your measure of success or failure of Raids is whether a Raid Wing singlehandedly can counter balance 8 months of zero other content for the game and maintain an expansion high in revenue, then yes, Raids will always be a "failure" by your metrics.

The problem with that is just that it's incredibly dishonest and silly to make that point.

You have 3 months content after content . With lost revenue

And if the argument was that Anet should do nothing but release a Raid Wing every 3 months and the game would be fine, you would have a point.Unfortunately, no one is making that argument.

And if some people didn't witchunt casuals (stop whining about KP) . And insteads tell the company to release an easy mode , we wouldnt have this conversation . With the 3 of you

Maybe if some people didn't witchhunt hardcore players (have some basic empathy to understand why KP as filtering tool is necessary to enjoy the content due to the glaring player skill gap), and instead were to band together to tackle the content in an environment as healthy and supportive as they claim to be, we wouldn't have this conversation either.

[Captain Kuro.8937]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@yukarishura.4790 said:@Obtena.7952

GW2 had no problems for the first three years when it didn't have raids and it hasn't died in the last two years since we stopped getting more.

Nothing to do with raids, GW2 had no problems in the first three years because it was a new game that sparked interest, especially people who were known with the franchise, now look at how the game is in 2021 and you will see it went downhill due to its incapacity to develop content regularly, including raids. Stop twisting the argument with the first years when the game was slow-paced, it took forever to get to level 80, it engaged people into finishing their world map and dungeons and some living world story, after that they tried to resurrect with the expansion etc So the argument of wow the game was doing well before raids has 0 value here

But the argument , that when raids/hardcore stuff can retain the players attention instead of snoozefest of Open world PvE is also wrong , shown by the graph .It got even lower (lol) , just like Wildstar

All the graph shows is revenue. It DOESN'T show there is a relationship between the existences of raids and 'hardcore player retention' ... if it does, then hardcore player retention does NOT result in significant revenue shifts.

Asum said that Raid offered an increase of the Revenue in 2016 . I am arguing about that :)

[Captain Kuro.8937]

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:I am sorry ,the only think i see that the same month that Wing 3 was released , we saw the lowest amount of revenue of the game .

The lowest amount of revenue of the game was in Q4 2019, not when Wing 3 was released. There were no Raids in Q4 2019 at all. And nice of you to change your argument from W1-3 to just W3, I guess you understood when W1 and W2 were released.

Yeah , but no 3quarters BACK TO BACK , focusing on hardcore

Calling them releasing no content after HoT for 9 months besides a few Raid Wings that happened to be mostly done during HoT development but didn't make it time "focusing on Hardcore content" is a bit of a stretch, no?

Claiming those releases that did happen are THE reason for the revenue drop, rather than the lack of everything else, ludicrous.

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:Its like PoF , a more casual friendly did the job

Did it? Revenue, despite Mount Skins and other fairly aggressive Gemstore moves and constant LW releases, still dropped almost just as low, and even surpassed the low of the HoT drought.

Clearly the game needed (and still needs) another Expansion with a variety of content and features, not just more OW and Story as LW provides.

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:And at the end/middle of the 3rd , it didnt bring the revenue that Asum SaidIt had the opposite effects

Look, if your measure of success or failure of Raids is whether a Raid Wing singlehandedly can counter balance 8 months of zero other content for the game and maintain an expansion high in revenue, then yes, Raids will always be a "failure" by your metrics.

The problem with that is just that it's incredibly dishonest and silly to make that point.

You have 3 months content after content . With lost revenue

And if the argument was that Anet should do nothing but release a Raid Wing every 3 months and the game would be fine, you would have a point.Unfortunately, no one is making that argument.

And if some people didn't witchunt casuals (stop whining about KP) . And insteads tell the company to release an easy mode , we wouldnt have this conversation . With the 3 of you

Maybe if some people didn't witchhunt hardcore players (have some basic empathy to understand why KP as filtering tool is necessary to enjoy the content due to the glaring player skill gap), and instead were to band together to tackle the content in an environment as healthy and supportive as they claim to be, we wouldn't have this conversation either.

Same . But that peorson did it since 2015 . And now he is whining about not enought participation and why the hardcore =revenue

[Asum.4960]

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@yukarishura.4790 said:@Obtena.7952

GW2 had no problems for the first three years when it didn't have raids and it hasn't died in the last two years since we stopped getting more.

Nothing to do with raids, GW2 had no problems in the first three years because it was a new game that sparked interest, especially people who were known with the franchise, now look at how the game is in 2021 and you will see it went downhill due to its incapacity to develop content regularly, including raids. Stop twisting the argument with the first years when the game was slow-paced, it took forever to get to level 80, it engaged people into finishing their world map and dungeons and some living world story, after that they tried to resurrect with the expansion etc So the argument of wow the game was doing well before raids has 0 value here

But the argument , that when raids/hardcore stuff can retain the players attention instead of snoozefest of Open world PvE is also wrong , shown by the graph .It got even lower (lol) , just like Wildstar

All the graph shows is revenue. It DOESN'T show there is a relationship between the existences of raids and 'hardcore player retention' ... if it does, then hardcore player retention does NOT result in significant revenue shifts.

Asum said that Raid offered an increase of the Revenue in 2016 . I am arguing about that :)

Can you quote me on that in context?

[Obtena.7952]

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:I am sorry ,the only think i see that the same month that Wing 3 was released , we saw the lowest amount of revenue of the game .

The lowest amount of revenue of the game was in Q4 2019, not when Wing 3 was released. There were no Raids in Q4 2019 at all. And nice of you to change your argument from W1-3 to just W3, I guess you understood when W1 and W2 were released.

Yeah , but no 3quarters BACK TO BACK , focusing on hardcore

Calling them releasing no content after HoT for 9 months besides a few Raid Wings that happened to be mostly done during HoT development but didn't make it time "focusing on Hardcore content" is a bit of a stretch, no?

Claiming those releases that did happen are THE reason for the revenue drop, rather than the lack of everything else, ludicrous.

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:Its like PoF , a more casual friendly did the job

Did it? Revenue, despite Mount Skins and other fairly aggressive Gemstore moves and constant LW releases, still dropped almost just as low, and even surpassed the low of the HoT drought.

Clearly the game needed (and still needs) another Expansion with a variety of content and features, not just more OW and Story as LW provides.

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:And at the end/middle of the 3rd , it didnt bring the revenue that Asum SaidIt had the opposite effects

Look, if your measure of success or failure of Raids is whether a Raid Wing singlehandedly can counter balance 8 months of zero other content for the game and maintain an expansion high in revenue, then yes, Raids will always be a "failure" by your metrics.

The problem with that is just that it's incredibly dishonest and silly to make that point.

You have 3 months content after content . With lost revenue

And if the argument was that Anet should do nothing but release a Raid Wing every 3 months and the game would be fine, you would have a point.Unfortunately, no one is making that argument.

And if some people didn't witchunt casuals (stop whining about KP) . And insteads tell the company to release an easy mode , we wouldnt have this conversation . With the 3 of you

Maybe if some people didn't witchhunt hardcore players (have some basic empathy to understand why KP as filtering tool is necessary to enjoy the content due to the glaring player skill gap), and instead were to band together to tackle the content in an environment as healthy and supportive as they claim to be, we wouldn't have this conversation either.

To be fair, if there wasn't so much exclusivity exhibited by 'hardcores' on how other people interact with hard content (e.g., pushing meta, intolerance for lack of raid evidence, etc ...), then I suspect that divide wouldn't exist in the first place. Exclusion is a self-extinction mechanic ... and then people wonder why raids aren't successful. /shrug

[Captain Kuro.8937]

@Asum.4960 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@yukarishura.4790 said:@Obtena.7952

GW2 had no problems for the first three years when it didn't have raids and it hasn't died in the last two years since we stopped getting more.

Nothing to do with raids, GW2 had no problems in the first three years because it was a new game that sparked interest, especially people who were known with the franchise, now look at how the game is in 2021 and you will see it went downhill due to its incapacity to develop content regularly, including raids. Stop twisting the argument with the first years when the game was slow-paced, it took forever to get to level 80, it engaged people into finishing their world map and dungeons and some living world story, after that they tried to resurrect with the expansion etc So the argument of wow the game was doing well before raids has 0 value here

But the argument , that when raids/hardcore stuff can retain the players attention instead of snoozefest of Open world PvE is also wrong , shown by the graph .It got even lower (lol) , just like Wildstar

All the graph shows is revenue. It DOESN'T show there is a relationship between the existences of raids and 'hardcore player retention' ... if it does, then hardcore player retention does NOT result in significant revenue shifts.

Asum said that Raid offered an increase of the Revenue in 2016 . I am arguing about that :)

Can you quote me on that in context?

https://imgur.com/wfc2fmO