WTH is wrong with this lfg

[Aurora.9347]

I made a group asking for help with the master coin achievement in world 2 zone 3, i progressed far enough in the stage, the people that joined in took advantage of how far i was just to get to boss quicker, and changed the description i had set asking for help, i did not wanted to do the boss, so if i set a group and then whoever joins can simply change whatever they want and then still kick me from the group i was trying to form wth, what sort of lfg is this, this is grieving, i was forced to leave from my own progressed stage, i was just gona get kicked if i did not go to the checkpoint, why don't we have control over the parties we do, i keep getting abused by people that join in, seriously.... for a company that loves to fight against grieving defenetely has a insanely flawed lfg system...

[Astyrah.4015]

@Hugedeal.5426 said:insanely flawed lfg system...

it's more because of the party system, not the lfg system.

it has it's pros and cons but because there's no actual party leader, anyone can modify anything on the party once they are part of it.

a solution would be to implement a party leader system such as what you find in games like FF14 and WoW, where you who made the party is the default leader and you have control of the LFG and who gets kicked or not.

the problem is people in gw2 don't like it too much apparently because of various reasons such as party leader power-abuse or so they say (which honestly happens in other games too but not often enough to make the community hate having a party leader for parties) -- well atleast that's the reason i heard

[Touchme.1097]

If you created a squad as a commander you would have never been kicked out from the party. The current lfg system has its flaws, one of them is everyone can change the group description at any moment and anyone can merge groups. I think it would be much better if the system automatically promoted as party leader the same player who started advertising a group in lfg with commander privileges and the rest of the party members were unable to apply changes or merge it with other groups.Some players just like to display disruptive behavior joining a small dungeon party and merging it with a squad doing a Meta event for example, I have had that happening more than once and it's also annoying.

[Aurora.9347]

Yea but what about other players abusing the party i am trying to form, it'll go both ways, what was i suposed to do when random players take over my party then, im scewed... i got no choice to let them take over because i can get kicked and like this i cannot hope to find anyone to help me out in my achievement because everytime i progress players keep joining and taking over... i even have to abandon the content im doing...

[Astyrah.4015]

@Touchme.1097 said:If you created a squad as a commander you would have never been kicked out from the party. The current lfg system has its flaws, one of them is everyone can change the group description at any moment and anyone can merge groups. I think it would be much better if the system automatically promoted as party leader the same player who started advertising a group in lfg with commander privileges and the rest of the party members were unable to apply changes or merge it with other groups.Some players just like to display disrupting behavior joining a small dungeon party and merging it with a squad doing a Meta event for example, I have had that happening more than once and it's also annoying.

if only we could use the commander tag in parties, but as it is, we can't.

also you can't enter drms or dungeons or fractals (iirc) as a squad so im pretty sure it'll apply to SAB as well which is the concern of the OP. -- you can only enter as a commander, in a squad with your group under your control in strikes and raids afaik..... other content including home instances and story mode, have to be done in parties to play together

[Touchme.1097]

@"Hugedeal.5426" said:Yea but what about other players abusing the party i am trying to form, it'll go both ways, what was i supposed to do when random players take over my party then, im scewed... i got no choice to let them take over because i can get kicked and like this i cannot hope to find anyone to help me out in my achievement because everytime i progress players keep joining and taking over... i even have to abandon the content im doing...

You can ask in guild for help or trying your luck with the current LFG system, you can also ask for help in this forum under "Players helping players" for an organized achievement run

[Astyrah.4015]

alternatively, @"Hugedeal.5426" you can join the GW2 discord and ask for help there it's much more active than the forums when it comes to looking for people to play with, in my experience (assuming you play on the same times as your server's region: NA/EU). you can also try finding a guild there (there's guild ads channels) that may offer to help you with various content including SAB

https://discord.gg/guildwars2

[Aurora.9347]

Ok ty, can't believe arena net actually allows this type of practice, hear so much about gw 2 community being nice and i just keep getting grieved and made fun out simply for wanting to complete an achievement...

[Yggranya.5201]

@Hugedeal.5426 said:Ok ty, can't believe arena net actually allows this type of practice, hear so much about gw 2 community being nice and i just keep getting grieved and made fun out simply for wanting to complete an achievement...

Any community = the same as all the rest, and someone claiming it's anything else makes them a liar.

[Astyrah.4015]

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Hugedeal.5426 said:Ok ty, can't believe arena net actually allows this type of practice, hear so much about gw 2 community being nice and i just keep getting grieved and made fun out simply for wanting to complete an achievement...

Any community = the same as all the rest and someone saying anything else is a liar.

i agree somewhat. people praise FF14's community as being really nice too but it's got it's bad apples just like gw2's. same with ESO and SWTOR and every other game that has content that caters to players from super casual to hardcore.

the difference is in the amount of content. in ff14 for example, they have a much more active endgame scene (savage, ultimates, ex trials, etc.) so you're more likely to meet toxic people there compared to gw2 but still, they exist in both games just in different amounts per given population.

[Vilin.8056]

The game originally had a party leader system that you can never kick instance opener out of the party.

The result was half the games on the LFG we end up with an AFK party leader exploiting this feature, and the system was therefore patched.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Party leaders often abused their power by kicking everyone at the end of the instance, and bringing in friends/guildies.Thus, it was changed to a majority vote system.

[Black Storm.6974]

As someone else said the old party leader system was often exploited, so it is probably not a good solution on its own.

Maybe ArenaNet could simply change the lfg system to allow the editing of the lfg only to the player who posted it, as long as that player is online and in the party. This way the problem would be drastically reduced.

[Veprovina.4876]

Why doesn't Anet just make the party creator unkickable? But not let them kick anyone else unless with a vote?That way, the one who created a party can gather like minded and not be griefed, and those who don't like it, can't grief the creator by kicking them, they can just leave and make their own party. The party creator also can't grief others by random kicking either. It would require minimum effort.

[Linken.6345]

@Black Storm.6974 said:As someone else said the old party leader system was often exploited, so it is probably not a good solution on its own.

Maybe ArenaNet could simply change the lfg system to allow the editing of the lfg only to the player who posted it, as long as that player is online and in the party. This way the problem would be drastically reduced.

It would not change anything they would get kicked so people could change the lfg.

[Linken.6345]

@Veprovina.4876 said:Why doesn't Anet just make the party creator unkickable? But not let them kick anyone else unless with a vote?That way, the one who created a party can gather like minded and not be griefed, and those who don't like it, can't grief the creator by kicking them, they can just leave and make their own party. The party creator also can't grief others by random kicking either. It would require minimum effort.

Because the creator of the lfg can be a dick then like they were in the past, finish this instance for me or start all over from scratch.

[Black Storm.6974]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Black Storm.6974 said:As someone else said the old party leader system was often exploited, so it is probably not a good solution on its own.

Maybe ArenaNet could simply change the lfg system to allow the editing of the lfg only to the player who posted it, as long as that player is online and in the party. This way the problem would be drastically reduced.

It would not change anything they would get kicked so people could change the lfg.

It would be more difficult for people to do that. Part of the problem explained by the opener is that since anyone can change the lfg other people with different expectations will join. What I suggested would make more difficult for the abusers to kick the opener of the lfg (they would not have support from players that would join a modified lfg).

[Black Storm.6974]

You could consider creating one or two free to play accounts that you would put in the party (this way you would have either more or total control over the party), then you can remove them as you feel comfortable with the party members you are getting.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Hugedeal.5426 said:Ok ty, can't believe arena net actually allows this type of practiceDo they? Did you try to report this case?

[Luthan.5236]

Yeah. System is bad. They should at least have left the option to decide if you wanted to create a leader-based party or one with a vote system. The majority vote also is not flawless.

In fractals when you are near the end and fail at some boss ... a few might leave and some of the others vote you out of the instance (quitting and the majority vote to go back to the hub). While they could just have left and the other player that still wanted to try could have put the group back in lfg.

Also for normal kicks: Some people just might not vote.

Still won't change the fact that in SAB people could join and kill the boss. (With a leader system though the leader could kick them faster. But if he does not ... they still can do stuff he won't like.)

Main problem is the lfg changes (should be a "leader" that only can change the lfg text) and that 5/5 and 1 /5 get removed after a join/leave. When the group is at 5/5 it should stay - hidden and if one player leaves automatically appear as 4/5 again.

When waiting pretty long at 1/5 and a 2nd player joins and then leaves insted of putting you at 1/5 the party gets disbanded and is not in lfg anymore. Annoying because you have to relist it. Needs a lot of hotfixes. But I guess that is one thing they considere "low priority". (If not "finished" even. With on updates anymore on this.)

[Veprovina.4876]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:Why doesn't Anet just make the party creator unkickable? But not let them kick anyone else unless with a vote?That way, the one who created a party can gather like minded and not be griefed, and those who don't like it, can't grief the creator by kicking them, they can just leave and make their own party. The party creator also can't grief others by random kicking either. It would require minimum effort.

Because the creator of the lfg can be a kitten then like they were in the past, finish this instance for me or start all over from scratch.

I don't understand your argument, can you elaborate a bit more please?

[Astralporing.1957]

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:Why doesn't Anet just make the party creator unkickable? But not let them kick anyone else unless with a vote?That way, the one who created a party can gather like minded and not be griefed, and those who don't like it, can't grief the creator by kicking them, they can just leave and make their own party. The party creator also can't grief others by random kicking either. It would require minimum effort.

Because the creator of the lfg can be a kitten then like they were in the past, finish this instance for me or start all over from scratch.

I don't understand your argument, can you elaborate a bit more please?That was how it was originally in the past - the party creator was unkickable. So, there were people that at some point just went afk, or demanded some compensation for not kicking everyone else on the last poss. Or people that when ended in any sort of argument with other players, just disbanded the party, which kicked everyone else out of instance. Or those that at the last boss kicked everyone else and invited their own guildies so they could get the final reward.

Both options have their own downsides.

And as for coupling unkickable creator with kick vote? It's probably way more complicated to implement. It would have to cover also disbanding the party, or leaving the party as well (in both those cases old system ended up kicking out everyone else except the original leader from the instance). Besides, it would create situations where the conflict between two different party members might be unsolvable (because one has votes, but the other is the leader).

[Veprovina.4876]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:Why doesn't Anet just make the party creator unkickable? But not let them kick anyone else unless with a vote?That way, the one who created a party can gather like minded and not be griefed, and those who don't like it, can't grief the creator by kicking them, they can just leave and make their own party. The party creator also can't grief others by random kicking either. It would require minimum effort.

Because the creator of the lfg can be a kitten then like they were in the past, finish this instance for me or start all over from scratch.

I don't understand your argument, can you elaborate a bit more please?That was how it was originally in the past - the party creator was unkickable. So, there were people that at some point just went afk, or demanded some compensation for not kicking everyone else on the last poss. Or people that when ended in any sort of argument with other players, just disbanded the party, which kicked everyone else out of instance. Or those that at the last boss kicked everyone else and invited their own guildies so they could get the final reward.

Both options have their own downsides.

And as for coupling unkickable creator with kick vote? It's probably way more complicated to implement. It would have to cover also disbanding the party, or leaving the party as well (in both those cases old system ended up kicking out everyone else except the original leader from the instance). Besides, it would create situations where the conflict between two different party members might be unsolvable (because one has votes, but the other is the leader).

Ah, i see. Thanks for explaining! :smile:Yeah, no matter what they do, it seems someone will always find a way to abuse the system.Looks like all they can do is minimise the abuse, and the system we have seem about right on that point at least.Maybe it could be better, but like you said, it would have to cover a lot of ground and mechanics.

[Astyrah.4015]

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:Why doesn't Anet just make the party creator unkickable? But not let them kick anyone else unless with a vote?That way, the one who created a party can gather like minded and not be griefed, and those who don't like it, can't grief the creator by kicking them, they can just leave and make their own party. The party creator also can't grief others by random kicking either. It would require minimum effort.

Because the creator of the lfg can be a kitten then like they were in the past, finish this instance for me or start all over from scratch.

I don't understand your argument, can you elaborate a bit more please?That was how it was originally in the past - the party creator was unkickable. So, there were people that at some point just went afk, or demanded some compensation for not kicking everyone else on the last poss. Or people that when ended in any sort of argument with other players, just disbanded the party, which kicked everyone else out of instance. Or those that at the last boss kicked everyone else and invited their own guildies so they could get the final reward.

Both options have their own downsides.

And as for coupling unkickable creator with kick vote? It's probably way more complicated to implement. It would have to cover also disbanding the party, or leaving the party as well (in both those cases old system ended up kicking out everyone else except the original leader from the instance). Besides, it would create situations where the conflict between two different party members might be unsolvable (because one has votes, but the other is the leader).

Ah, i see. Thanks for explaining! :smile:Yeah, no matter what they do, it seems someone will always find a way to abuse the system.Looks like all they can do is minimise the abuse, and the system we have seem about right on that point at least.Maybe it could be better, but like you said, it would have to cover a lot of ground and mechanics.

i don't mind the system as it is now, im fine with it actually. but i always wonder: why other games with much higher populations seem to be doing ok with having party leaders when gw2 doesnt?

[Astralporing.1957]

@Astyrah.4015 said:i don't mind the system as it is now, im fine with it actually. but i always wonder: why other games with much higher populations seem to be doing ok with having party leaders when gw2 doesnt?Because they often have heavy penalties/restrictions/consequences for messing with LFG party composition, that discourage players from abusing those. This however requires a LFG system that is far better at creating a sensible group (which usually requires hardcoded role assignment), so, if some problems arise, you're still encouraged to bear with it unless the situation is truly critical.

Notice, btw, that in Raids we are using a squad setup, where the party leader is the king. That's because squads were not designed as a LFG pug construct.