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What is balance to you Anet folks there? sipping your mint tea chai staring at greenery wondering what more can I do to tip the scales in favour of people who never asked for it.

your so called balance notes were mostly in context of PvE whilst completely ignoring the huge repercussions it has on PvP and WvW..  especially in small scale scenarios that a minority of players idolise this game for. 

 

you are not only causing more inequality through alienating a significant sum of a playerbase but changing gameplay mechanics that people had already gotten used to..  2 different schools of DPS in this game. CONDIToughness and POWER.. THERES A WAR ANET.. please.. bear that in mind when you label something as balance.. cause you fooled me..

 

WvW should be a separate category to your PVE balance patch.. stay away from it.. i could see the red flags from all 4 corners of mordor

i've already dealt and gotten used to these condi players running around with tanky stats and insane damage over time.. stop making it easier to play in a pvp setting for god sake.

 

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Posted (edited)

Ah yes, posts complaining about a patch, but doesn't actually give suggestions, improvements, or even explains why the patch would be bad. 

Also, made by an account with only 1 post, so no doubt its a throwaway account.
My favourite.

Edited by Yasai.3549
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this is a PVE balance patch... not a PVP one.. i'm a power tempest.. all i've ever played.. but i'm pretty sure condi revs relied on resistance to eat through condi damage whilst transferring no? so now they eat damage and negate movement  only.. cool.. so you alienate that playerbase who roamed it for a year.. i don't need to type anymore... this is a PVE BALANCE PATCH.. not a PVP OR WVW one..

if they want improvement from me.. they can hire me.. i'm not about to sit here for an hour typing all the improvements that they themselves should have thought about..

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Ah yes, posts complaining about a patch, but doesn't actually give suggestions, improvements, or even explains why the patch would be bad. 


Awww come on m8!!!
People giving suggestions from years,like there is no future...still nothing.
 

Name ONE single change they made following any suggestions.
Come on now ...

edit:
Also i love the fact that I am supposed to tell the creators of this game how to improve their own product.
I mean i can give you some feedbacks but still...shouldn't they be able to know/see what is a GOOD or a BAD decision/change?! DO they test the changes they make,do they play their game like an actual player would do?



 

Edited by ilMasa.2546
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9 hours ago, ilMasa.2546 said:

Also i love the fact that I am supposed to tell the creators of this game how to improve their own product.

I mean i can give you some feedbacks but still...shouldn't they be able to know/see what is a GOOD or a BAD decision/change?! DO they test the changes they make,do they play their game like an actual player would do?



 

They play Raids! The only content that matters apparently because everything gets balanced around them. 🙄

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18 hours ago, Jarwan.8263 said:

i've already dealt and gotten used to these condi players running around with tanky stats and insane damage over time.. stop making it easier to play in a pvp setting for god sake.

 

 

Ignoring the literal mountain of salt here in this post, what exactly gets easier to play?

 

Also most condi builds are being nerfed, no? Burnguard will no longer be a thing, herald ate big nerfs, scourge to a degree as well?

18 hours ago, Jarwan.8263 said:

i'm a power tempest.. all i've ever played.. but i'm pretty sure condi revs relied on resistance to eat through condi damage whilst transferring no? so now they eat damage and negate movement  only.. cool.. so you alienate that playerbase who roamed it for a year..

 

Maybe heralds will just have to use more buttons than f2 to kill people, meaning most of them will def swap off it.

 

Core/Ren will be fine, if somewhat nerfed, if herald dies that's hardly a loss..

 

Power Tempest should be in the same spot it was before, yes?

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2 hours ago, lodjur.1284 said:

 

 

Ignoring the literal mountain of salt here in this post, what exactly gets easier to play?

 

Also most condi builds are being nerfed, no? Burnguard will no longer be a thing, herald ate big nerfs, scourge to a degree as well?

Maybe heralds will just have to use more buttons than f2 to kill people, meaning most of them will def swap off it.

 

Core/Ren will be fine, if somewhat nerfed, if herald dies that's hardly a loss..

 

Power Tempest should be in the same spot it was before, yes?

What salt? I’m defending a game mode that gets neglected and pushed to the side every single time.. and everyone assumed this balance patch would fix the glaring issues that people moan about always.. some of these changes are good.. they make sense.. but others do not.. especially not in context of wvw where theres supposed to be some semblance of fair game.. you think celerity getting expertise and concentration is a condi nerf? And the already tanky scourge getting a boost to sustain.. please do not comment unless you understand what i’m trying to point out... PVE patch.. not PVP/WVW.. nothing here is aimed towards improving anyones life but fractal players. Get out of my thread unless your Anet

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Jarwan.8263 said:

What salt? I’m defending a game mode that gets neglected and pushed to the side every single time.. and everyone assumed this balance patch would fix the glaring issues that people moan about always.. some of these changes are good.. they make sense.. but others do not.. especially not in context of wvw where theres supposed to be some semblance of fair game.. you think celerity getting expertise and concentration is a condi nerf? And the already tanky scourge getting a boost to sustain.. please do not comment unless you understand what i’m trying to point out... PVE patch.. not PVP/WVW.. nothing here is aimed towards improving anyones life but fractal players. Get out of my thread unless your Anet

This patch is a massive improvement tho. I only play WvW.

 

Celerity is a sigil. 

 

Celestial is a meme atm, it will probably be used on a few things next patch, but hardly gamebreaking.

 

Scourge is getting an extremely minor sustain buff if they're taking blood. Which is not the norm¨.

 

Resistance has been one of the biggest issues for WvW for a long time.

 

The patch has a couple weakspots, but these aren't even mentioned (like scrapper buff).

 

If you want a thread with only Anet try writing to one of them personally.

 

Overall tho this is def an improvement to all of WvW.

Edited by lodjur.1284
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Posted (edited)

but it has nothing to do with wvw... or pvp for that matter.. this is done to change how PVE is played.. and players in wvw are to suffer while some builds who shouldn't need a boost get one.. 

 

also my dude, read the patch again.. while theres an overall nerf on the duration of condi for movement impairing ones (which was done so people could mount instead of just cleaning it kitten)

condi from any builds will always be a thing.. this patch is nothing to deal with it. some nerfs while others are actually a buff.. 

 

Edited by Jarwan.8263
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14 minutes ago, Jarwan.8263 said:

but it has nothing to do with wvw... or pvp for that matter.. this is done to change how PVE is played.. and players in wvw are to suffer while some builds who shouldn't need a boost get one.. 

 

also my dude, read the patch again.. while theres an overall nerf on the duration of condi for movement impairing ones (which was done so people could mount instead of just cleaning it kitten)

condi from any builds will always be a thing.. this patch is nothing to deal with it. some nerfs while others are actually a buff.. 

 

The reason for the patch is irrelevant. Either way it ends up being better for WvW.

 

Oh no, 10 sec duration caps, that will surely come up sometimes... /sarcasm

 

Ye ofc condi will always be a thing, but overall the strongest condi builds are mostly getting nerfs this patch, while the strongest anti-condi spec is getting buffs. 

 

There's more good changes than bad ones in this patch for WvW overall, is it perfect, no, but it's def better than pre-may 11.

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6 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

cutting all the balance patches off towards the state of before 2020 would be even better than anything that happened sofar...

Nah, that was a horrible time, when it felt like skill barely mattered, one of the few periods where I legit took a break from the game because there was essentially no point playing

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it's completely the other way round man. now you hammer your keyboard for several minutes till things die. that's boring and tedious, stale and exhausting. heavy cc spam, numbers counts way more, way less people really die after battles, most just run off - especially on the blob-cloud servers.

 

and a ton of dmg options got removed. only roamers have an undeserved easier life now.

 

before, u could beat off way bigger groups with way fewer people way more easy. that's only alike because u could use your skill and skills to dish fast dmg, before everything outside roamerdmg got stomped down to wet noodle levels.

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9 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

it's completely the other way round man. now you hammer your keyboard for several minutes till things die. that's boring and tedious, stale and exhausting. heavy cc spam, numbers counts way more, way less people really die after battles, most just run off - especially on the blob-cloud servers.

 

and a ton of dmg options got removed. only roamers have an undeserved easier life now.

 

before, u could beat off way bigger groups with way fewer people way more easy. that's only alike because u could use your skill and skills to dish fast dmg, before everything outside roamerdmg got stomped down to wet noodle levels.

During 2019 CC was worse, burst was higher, ranged dmg was higher, all things that benefit the larger groups, outnumbered fights are way more doable atm, they will be more so post may-11

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the CCs been mostly damaging skills back then. u'd just die and not be permalocked. imo that way a way better thing.

 

and no, obviously with bigger target caps (so, i can hit more people per hit) you could back then wipe bigger groups far more easy. Arenanet nerfed damage, cooldowns, selfsustain, parts of groupsustain, dmg cap size. everything there is just and only helpful for bigger numbers.

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19 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

the CCs been mostly damaging skills back then. u'd just die and not be permalocked. imo that way a way better thing.

 

and no, obviously with bigger target caps (so, i can hit more people per hit) you could back then wipe bigger groups far more easy. Arenanet nerfed damage, cooldowns, selfsustain, parts of groupsustain, dmg cap size. everything there is just and only helpful for bigger numbers.

This is just flat out incorrect. 2019 had the same AoE caps as now. 

 

We had burst go down, which is good for the smaller size group  

 

We now have actual good low cd builds for both sustain and dmg, we didn't during the 2019. 

 

2019 was possibly the worst time to do outnumbered fights

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

i'm pretty sure someone across the year mentioned that the scourge target caps on several things like shades got lowered. maybe was 2020 then also, even worse then.

 

 

Scourge I suppose,  but that's the only thing really and it already wasn't great at outnumbered fights when the nerf happened. (it was mid 2020).

Edited by lodjur.1284
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On 5/2/2021 at 11:15 PM, Jarwan.8263 said:

your so called balance notes were mostly in context of PvE whilst completely ignoring the huge repercussions it has on PvP and WvW..  especially in small scale scenarios that a minority of players idolise this game for. 

 

you are not only causing more inequality through alienating a significant sum of a playerbase but changing gameplay mechanics that people had already gotten used to..  2 different schools of DPS in this game. CONDIToughness and POWER.. THERES A WAR ANET.. please.. bear that in mind when you label something as balance.. cause you fooled me..

 

WvW should be a separate category to your PVE balance patch.. stay away from it.. i could see the red flags from all 4 corners of mordor

i've already dealt and gotten used to these condi players running around with tanky stats and insane damage over time.. stop making it easier to play in a pvp setting for god sake.

 

This sums up the problem with WvW-balance very well. 
If i recall correctly, ANet even stated in the past, that they want to separate sPvP and WvW-Balance from the PvE-balance. I think it was that time, when the damage-numbers, healing-nerfs and reduced target caps got introduced and the damage on CC got nerfed. 
This is what ANet should have done long ago, and as i said, what they initially announced. So i don´t understand why ANet now starts to combine PvE and PvP/WvW-balance again. 
PvE, PvP and WvW are fundamentally different modes, it is impossible to balance all of them properly if you want to apply all the changes the same way across all 3 Game Modes. 


ANet needs to understand, that WvW has totally different needs on how classes, skills and traits get adjusted and how they influence each other (one small change on one trait can heavily influence all other classes and skills heavily). If they keep combining balance-changes across all the different modes, we will never get proper balance for WvW. 
 

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lodor, i started scourge some month ago and score pretty high killcounts and work from its corrupts, dmg from wells, and support from the shades the whole time. it's still good, but it must have been an absolute monster with more targets per skill. its main work comes from corrupted boons, thats why more targets would make it way more effective.

and it's extremly good in overnumbers. from what i remember, back then only herald outshadowed it. so basically, nothing at all has changed in that mater. people meme bersker warri in and guardian dps has a new prime... but in the end, those cannot do the work without the offense support of scourge.

___

yep custodio. cannot be said often enough. while i don't agree with jarwan in terms of condiToughness. its only possible to make condi in largescale work, if the other group has firebrands that are too pressured to use their cleanseoptions and play without scrappers or have slacking scrappers. all not uncommon these days, but all obviously not ideal anyways.

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4 minutes ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

lodor, i started scourge some month ago and score pretty high killcounts and work from its corrupts, dmg from wells, and support from the shades the whole time. it's still good, but it must have been an absolute monster with more targets per skill. its main work comes from corrupted boons, thats why more targets would make it way more effective.

and it's extremly good in overnumbers. from what i remember, back then only herald outshadowed it. so basically, nothing at all has changed in that mater. people meme bersker warri in and guardian dps has a new prime... but in the end, those cannot do the work without the offense support of scourge.

___

yep custodio. cannot be said often enough. while i don't agree with jarwan in terms of condiToughness. its only possible to make condi in largescale work, if the other group has firebrands that are too pressured to use their cleanseoptions and play without scrappers or have slacking scrappers. all not uncommon these days, but all obviously not ideal anyways.

In small group, where one is outnumbered, say 5v15, scourge was pre-target cap change, mediocre. Post target-change, basically dead imo.

 

There's very little reason to pick it up over for example condition renegade, which easily deals twice it's dps in most longer fights.

 

If one wants Boonrips, then it is still outperformed by reaper, power SPB, even a condi Ren spamming banish is prolly gonna reach similar numbers  with a lot more versatility.

 

The only thing scourge really has going for it is an absurdly overpowered elite skill, which is great when you're the outnumbering group, but broken skills on long CDs aren't amazing when you're the ones outnumbered as you need to prepare for a long fight and have no time to wait for your cooldowns to get back.

 

Condition Herald is of course just a build to troll smaller/same sized groups, and a quite bad option compared to core rev/renegade if one actually goes for outnumbered fights.

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Its so bad that anet made a tankly dps elite spec into an support because in the pvp game types it was used as such see scraper. Anet has no ideal how to balance arone game types with all of the split non split and un spliting of game type balancing.

 

It all seems less of an type of balancing and more of an bate and switch the push nerfs.

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9 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

yep custodio. cannot be said often enough. while i don't agree with jarwan in terms of condiToughness. its only possible to make condi in largescale work, if the other group has firebrands that are too pressured to use their cleanseoptions and play without scrappers or have slacking scrappers. all not uncommon these days, but all obviously not ideal anyways.

The biggest issue that condi-builds have in wvw is partially the available condi-cleanses (which especially scrappers have a lot), but the real thing why condi doesn't work in large scale is the access to condition-conversion (engineer-trait "purity of purpose"). This trait alone can apply all types of boons way more quickly than any scourge can corrupt nowadays, so as long as this trait exists, condi builds are basically useless in Zergs (so the more conditions get applied, the more they get converted into boons as long as the overall cleanses by scrappers are higher than the Corrupts of the Scourges. Iirc when the Corrupts got nerfed, these cleanses stayed untouched, purging potential condi damage out of existence. 

And btw: I am a scrapper main, and we literally are happy if the enemy pulls chilling fog in a keep. Because "hey, free alac for everyone". 

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i play both scrapper and scourge frequently, i can only say that outside of fights against WSR (who bomb usually hard enough so you don't reach the scourge range), it works pretty well to delete things with it.  as said, it might be because not all scrappers are that fast. there's usually a difference between 100 cleanses between the first and the 2nd scrapper, then another 200 cleanses between the first four and the last three. means if some scrappers get caught offguard, the group can easily die from corruption.

which is kinda okay. that's how it works. meta classes counter each other to an extent.

 

condi still works pretty good against clouds, hence it is balanced. the condi-pirateship blobs that i think i saw in 2019 sometimes been pretty cancerous either way.

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29 minutes ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

i play both scrapper and scourge frequently, i can only say that outside of fights against WSR (who bomb usually hard enough so you don't reach the scourge range), it works pretty well to delete things with it.  as said, it might be because not all scrappers are that fast. there's usually a difference between 100 cleanses between the first and the 2nd scrapper, then another 200 cleanses between the first four and the last three. means if some scrappers get caught offguard, the group can easily die from corruption.

which is kinda okay. that's how it works. meta classes counter each other to an extent.

 

condi still works pretty good against clouds, hence it is balanced. the condi-pirateship blobs that i think i saw in 2019 sometimes been pretty cancerous either way.

Scourge will "always" be in an okay spot in Zergs, theres a lot of reasons for that (the biggest probably being ranged non-projectile AoE, broken elite skill and f1/2/3 all being both offensive/defensive so it's very simple to play in a zerg, more so than other things, which is good cause the average skill level there is pretty low, and even if it wasn't the lag is a pretty big skill equalizer in zerg fights). (Tho tbf it seems mediocre there too at this point)

 

However outside of actual zergs, in groups smaller than say, 8, scourge is really struggling and was already weak before the target-cap change.

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