Crystal Paladin.3871 Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) Jormag is not a bad dragon... It has its own perspective of the world and living beings... It even likes to have conversation with aurene and co... It didn't kill ppl mindlessly... It spared the life of the norn who broke it's tooth and let him live... Other elder dragons were mindlessly consuming everything in their path... Jormag ofcourse wanted to kill primordus for its own survival but the way it's character is built up and the way we suddenly killed jormag seems so unfair... They made us feel sorry for kralkatorrik at the end during the kralk heart impaling phase... But they somehow decided to make jormag an undisputed villain and ignored it's character and quickly ended it. To really justify jormag is bad and sinister, we shd've killed primordus and if jormag pulled any stunts, then taimi and gorrik find some means to gather the dead primordus's energy from aurene and use it against jormag like ommad's machine V2. Or if jormag went on its own way to live in the frost area after killing primordus, we shd've left it as it is to live by itself like the lion it is(elder dragons need their own respect they witnessed tyria and history from time zero) During conversation with jormag, it grew impatient only when talks about primordus came about. Jormag doesn't need to convert ppl to frost if there was no primordus Edited May 3, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentMoore.9453 Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 It's true that Jormag does have a different view on the world than mortals do, but their acts and methods are what made them evil. Recent example: When confronted with the notion that freezing innocent people was cruel, they seemed incapable of understanding why. In their perspective, they pressed 'pause' on those people instead of killing or corrupting them - in our perspective, not knowing what those people were going through (and not giving them a choice in their fate) was grounds to judge it an act of malice and subjugation. It all seems like innocent naivety, but Jormag tips their hand in some of their mid-Champions dialogue and then again during the finale itself: All of this is being done so Jormag can unbind themselves from Primordus. IBS was horrifically rushed and we didn't get the whole story, but basically we learn that Jormag's end game was to free themselves from Primordus. The two have been linked for hundreds (possibly thousands) of years, and so any nice-playing they were doing with Aurene and with us was purely a bid to get the chance to destroy Primordus and break the cycle that bound them together with no regard for how it would affect Tyria. All of their actions, even those prior to awakening during GW2, were building up to this final confrontation with the fire dragon and should not be mistaken for genuine kindness. Manipulation is the literal hallmark of Jormag, and that's exactly why this dragon puts on a customer service smile whenever they're at a disadvantage - to try and garner enough support to become strong again and take what they want. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greyhawk.9107 Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said: Jormag is not a bad dragon... It has its own perspective of the world and living beings... It even likes to have conversation with aurene and co... It didn't kill ppl mindlessly... It spared the life of the norn who broke it's tooth and let him live... Other elder dragons were mindlessly consuming everything in their path... Jormag ofcourse wanted to kill primordus for its own survival but the way it's character is built up and the way we suddenly killed jormag seems so unfair... They made us feel sorry for kralkatorrik at the end during the kralk heart impaling phase... But they somehow decided to make jormag an undisputed villain and ignored it's character and quickly ended it. To really justify jormag is bad and sinister, we shd've killed primordus and if jormag pulled any stunts, then taimi and gorrik find some means to gather the dead primordus's energy from aurene and use it against jormag like ommad's machine V2. Or if jormag went on its own way to live in the frost area after killing primordus, we shd've left it as it is to live by itself like the lion it is(elder dragons need their own respect they witnessed tyria and history from time zero) During conversation with jormag, it grew impatient only when talks about primordus came about. Jormag doesn't need to convert ppl to frost if there was no primordus Jormag, like all the other Elder Dragons are aren't Aurene, is responsible for the deaths of thousands, and was trying to manipulate Aurene and the Commander into killing Primordus for them. Those people it froze, for no other reason than to gain power over Primordus, could possible still be conscious and unable to move, trapped like that for centuries....and when Aurene brought that up to Jormag, it didn't give two shits about that being a possibility. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXMapcoXx.9614 Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 4 hours ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said: Jormag is not a bad dragon... It has its own perspective of the world and living beings... It even likes to have conversation with aurene and co... It didn't kill ppl mindlessly... It spared the life of the norn who broke it's tooth and let him live... Other elder dragons were mindlessly consuming everything in their path... Jormag ofcourse wanted to kill primordus for its own survival but the way it's character is built up and the way we suddenly killed jormag seems so unfair... They made us feel sorry for kralkatorrik at the end during the kralk heart impaling phase... But they somehow decided to make jormag an undisputed villain and ignored it's character and quickly ended it. To really justify jormag is bad and sinister, we shd've killed primordus and if jormag pulled any stunts, then taimi and gorrik find some means to gather the dead primordus's energy from aurene and use it against jormag like ommad's machine V2. Or if jormag went on its own way to live in the frost area after killing primordus, we shd've left it as it is to live by itself like the lion it is(elder dragons need their own respect they witnessed tyria and history from time zero) During conversation with jormag, it grew impatient only when talks about primordus came about. Jormag doesn't need to convert ppl to frost if there was no primordus Why? she was basically a kittening idiot. Did you see how she died? she spit into her brothers mouth and exploded! what was there to miss? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrusse.7058 Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 Jormag was certainly one of, if not the most interesting elder dragon thus far because they communicated with us in the first place. Jormag did try to manipulate the PC as well as Dragon's Watch from the very get go. Then Aurene. This was after Jormag had been manipulating the Son's of Svanir for hundreds of years. I don't think the words good or bad really do Jormag justice. Jormag was a dragon that saw mortals as a resource. It killed when necessary, used them when it could or saw them as useful. If Jormag was able to gather power by killing people rather than freezing them, it would do so without any hesitation. However it didn't do that because its power comes from trapping people. Again, Jormag is made interesting because we can communicate with it and it chose its battles more carefully, until the finale at least which was pretty out of character. I would have liked to see a world where Jormag gets their wish and eliminates Primodus. What happens then? An uneasy truce? War? An actual alliance? We will never know now. I'm sure Arenanet have something interesting in the background, it just sucks how we got to this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUN YANG.4328 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 I missed part of the story. i dont really understand why Jormag and Primordus had been to the world for that many years and all the sudden need to kill each others. why they cant stay in their territory like the other elder dragon. and why even the elder dragon die their minions still exist? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jin.8501 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Is a cat evil when it hunts and kills mice? No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SexyMofo.8923 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 Kinda don’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Greyhawk.9107 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 53 minutes ago, Jin.8501 said: Is a cat evil when it hunts and kills mice? No! It is to the mice (and it sounds like you're comparing the mortal sapient races of Tyria to rodents and vermin), but at least cats have the excuse that they need to eat things like mice to survive. Elder Dragons don't need to genocide mortals to survive, they consume magic not flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoover.6394 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 I just played Shadow in the Ice, at very beginning, Jormag told the commander that he is an ally and the commander need jormag to help him in order to achieve the balance.... I got a feeling that Jormag has always know what he’s going to do in the end, to sacrificed him for the balance, otherwise he wouldn’t show up to face Primordas, so he’s the good guy all alone! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Paladin.3871 Posted May 4, 2021 Author Share Posted May 4, 2021 22 hours ago, AgentMoore.9453 said: It's true that Jormag does have a different view on the world than mortals do, but their acts and methods are what made them evil. Recent example: When confronted with the notion that freezing innocent people was cruel, they seemed incapable of understanding why. In their perspective, they pressed 'pause' on those people instead of killing or corrupting them - in our perspective, not knowing what those people were going through (and not giving them a choice in their fate) was grounds to judge it an act of malice and subjugation. It all seems like innocent naivety, but Jormag tips their hand in some of their mid-Champions dialogue and then again during the finale itself: All of this is being done so Jormag can unbind themselves from Primordus. IBS was horrifically rushed and we didn't get the whole story, but basically we learn that Jormag's end game was to free themselves from Primordus. The two have been linked for hundreds (possibly thousands) of years, and so any nice-playing they were doing with Aurene and with us was purely a bid to get the chance to destroy Primordus and break the cycle that bound them together with no regard for how it would affect Tyria. All of their actions, even those prior to awakening during GW2, were building up to this final confrontation with the fire dragon and should not be mistaken for genuine kindness. Manipulation is the literal hallmark of Jormag, and that's exactly why this dragon puts on a customer service smile whenever they're at a disadvantage - to try and garner enough support to become strong again and take what they want. We don't know jormag would turn on us if we helped killing primordus... It did freeze ppl for the sole purpose of gaining power to end primordus(which is a mindless unpredictable beast and can't be reasoned with).. if there were no primordus, it won't have the need to freeze ppl at all... If you are powerful and when someone puny does something that totally disrespects, embarasses and disgraces you, what will you do? And what did jormag do? Aesgir dragonrender chipped off jormag's fang(jormag a powerful elder dragon) and what did jormag do? It let him walk away. It considered that races of tyria have potential and need not be destroyed but can be made allies... What will you do in that situation? Will u let someone walkaway after breaking your tooth? Jormag didn't run amok around tyria... It didn't pursue the norn beyond the north... It rested and went sleeping after it got a place to stay... All it did until now is to gather forces to end primordus. If we would've helped it end primordus, it would've turned out to be a neutral dragon that lives peacefully somewhere in the north You ppl see what you want to see and not what could be.. what if... What if we give jormag a chance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Paladin.3871 Posted May 4, 2021 Author Share Posted May 4, 2021 If anet really intended on this current ending, they shouldn't have made those discussions with jormag and aurene... They shd've instead portrayed it as a mindless freezing beast and pure evil so it would've suited the ending... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrusse.7058 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 5 hours ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said: If anet really intended on this current ending, they shouldn't have made those discussions with jormag and aurene... They shd've instead portrayed it as a mindless freezing beast and pure evil so it would've suited the ending... I can't pretend I know what they were thinking with this ending. It was so out of character. Granted there is one dialogue between Jormag and Aurene where Jormag seems to become upset and the voice becomes a mixture of male and female voices instead of just female. Jormag seems upset that Aurene is choosing not to intervene with Primordus. Besides that conversation, there doesn't seem to be enough build up to justify what we actually got. It's done now, or at least it seems to be. We will just have to wait and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunTzu.4513 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 14 hours ago, rrusse.7058 said: Again, Jormag is made interesting because we can communicate with it and it chose its battles more carefully, until the finale at least which was pretty out of character. I would have liked to see a world where Jormag gets their wish and eliminates Primodus. What happens then? An uneasy truce? War? An actual alliance? We will never know now. I'm sure Arenanet have something interesting in the background, it just sucks how we got to this point. So much this! I wasn't this invested in an antagonist since Joko who also had great and interresting writing imo. Jormag was even better than him from my point of view. He had so much more potential and the final story arc felt brutally bad and like an anti climax to me. I have no clue why ANet tosses away such great potentil frequently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iterious.9715 Posted May 4, 2021 Share Posted May 4, 2021 hope he's dead, didn't like jormag at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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