if you main warrior

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

15 minutes ago, Stalima.5490 said:

Here's 2 images, one shows a 14.3k gunflame in the log, the other shows a 14.5k decapitate in the log, with certain modifiers this goes even higher in pvp matches.

 

https://imgur.com/rW1uPLs

 

https://imgur.com/4RxTOaQ

 

Oh and this pales in comparison to the fact that in the same build, the Axe 5 is capable of over 20000 damage in 1 button.

 

I couldn't decide on the last utility but you do not need the banner of strength for this.

 

I don't think anyone sane is going to let you channel Axe 5 completely, but granted. Going to take a look and change my opinion on Gunflame if need be. 

[Sailorz.5426]

1 hour ago, Stalima.5490 said:

Here's 2 images, one shows a 14.3k gunflame in the log, the other shows a 14.5k decapitate in the log, with certain modifiers this goes even higher in pvp matches.

 

https://imgur.com/rW1uPLs

 

https://imgur.com/4RxTOaQ

 

Oh and this pales in comparison to the fact that in the same build, the Axe 5 is capable of over 20000 damage in 1 button.

 

I couldn't decide on the last utility but you do not need the banner of strength for this.

HAHAHAHAH.

Homie is using power banner, power sig, arms traitline, I'm sure he's using str and tactics too.

 

omg what an irrelevant point. NO ONE is going to do well in a match with that build. you literally just stacked power to a point where ur gonna one shot a dummy in the mists.

 

Get real dude. If you are losing to this build in matches you have no say.

 

EDIT: you also are hitting the 'light' dummy.....

Edited May 18, 2021 by Sailorz.5426

[Sailorz.5426]

anet ur forums are buggy

Edited May 18, 2021 by Sailorz.5426
it trippled my post

[Sailorz.5426]

anet ur forums are buggy

Edited May 18, 2021 by Sailorz.5426
it trippled my post

[fluffypaws.2860]

S sknekne

1 hour ago, Stalima.5490 said:

Here's 2 images, one shows a 14.3k gunflame in the log, the other shows a 14.5k decapitate in the log, with certain modifiers this goes even higher in pvp matches.

 

https://imgur.com/rW1uPLs

 

https://imgur.com/4RxTOaQ

 

Oh and this pales in comparison to the fact that in the same build, the Axe 5 is capable of over 20000 damage in 1 button.

 

I couldn't decide on the last utility but you do not need the banner of strength for this.

As someone who has played and mastered rifle builds since HoT on Warrior / Berserker you're not going to get near that damage unless your going for 1 shot Yolo builds which are complete trash against anyone with experience.

Those figures don't paint the full picture.

[Bast.7253]

On 5/16/2021 at 5:50 PM, Mack.3045 said:

I feel your pain. Generally when I get corpse jumped by Vel playing Mesmer in the Arena I say " walk in my shoes" 😂

But is that build any good in matches? Or just sprinting full speed to the other side of the arena while you wait for your cooldowns to come back and jump them with a series of stunlocks?

Not dissing you. Just wondering how well the build works when you have to stand on a capture point and can't rely on l.o.s.

It seems like the core longbow build is similarly bunker-y but I don't ever see anyone playing it in matches. Spellbreaker still seems to be pretty king in matches from what I can tell but it seems like it's mostly useful for pulls and full counter dazes. 

[Bast.7253]

On 5/16/2021 at 2:41 AM, Sailorz.5426 said:

you might as well go Off-line

I mean, you seem to be pretty good at warrior from what I've seen. But I feel like it's pretty balanced and still fun to play. The issue is just the same issue that's always been, other builds not getting balanced or tweaked correctly. 

I think this is less of a "buff warrior" case than a fix-broken-classes case. But yeah, I guess why roll warrior and have to somewhat carefully consider your combat tactics when you can just roll prot holo and facetank everything while pulsing burst level damage to everything around you.

 

[Stalima.5490]

2 hours ago, Sailorz.5426 said:

HAHAHAHAH.

Homie is using power banner, power sig, arms traitline, I'm sure he's using str and tactics too.

 

omg what an irrelevant point. NO ONE is going to do well in a match with that build. you literally just stacked power to a point where ur gonna one shot a dummy in the mists.

 

Get real dude. If you are losing to this build in matches you have no say.

 

EDIT: you also are hitting the 'light' dummy.....

 

Believe what you want but all this build needs to do is use its heal, use its elite and then burst, if the target is nearby the berserk activation will deal an additional 4k+ on top of your burst attack, the last utility is an open slot, the banner is irrelevant to the damage output with these numbers and thus you can just use endure pain, the build in the screen shot is as follows:

 

equips:

 

Berserker amulet with scholar runes. (the sheer damage output means you can also drop to demolisher easily enough for a tougher approach)

Rifle with courage and separation sigils. (heavy long range damage)

Any preferred secondary weapon, likely axe/shield or axe/axe or mace/shield

 

Traits:

 

Strength 3/3/1

Arms 2/2/1

Berserker 1/1/1

 

I was considering swapping to savage instinct for the invuln at the start making it harder to attack.

 

Utilities:

 

1) "To the limit!" (when cheesing allows you to instantly go into berserker mode and insta pop someone immediately)

2) Signet of might (Unblockable)

3) "Shake it off" (stun break/condi clean)

4) Literally anything you need (not really decided, theres alot of good things to round out the build, "on my mark" is good to round out the burst aspect and make it faster to achieve)

5) Signet of Rage (20 stacks of might easy)

 

heres a simple damage breakdown on the heavy golem

 

https://imgur.com/opXgDBo

Edited May 18, 2021 by Stalima.5490

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

51 minutes ago, Stalima.5490 said:

 

Believe what you want but all this build needs to do is use its heal, use its elite and then burst, if the target is nearby the berserk activation will deal an additional 4k+ on top of your burst attack, the last utility is an open slot, the banner is irrelevant to the damage output with these numbers and thus you can just use endure pain, the build in the screen shot is as follows:

 

equips:

 

Berserker amulet with scholar runes. (the sheer damage output means you can also drop to demolisher easily enough for a tougher approach)

Rifle with courage and separation sigils. (heavy long range damage)

Any preferred secondary weapon, likely axe/shield or axe/axe or mace/shield

 

Traits:

 

Strength 3/3/1

Arms 2/2/1

Berserker 1/1/1

 

I was considering swapping to savage instinct for the invuln at the start making it harder to attack.

 

Utilities:

 

1) "To the limit!" (when cheesing allows you to instantly go into berserker mode and insta pop someone immediately)

2) Signet of might (Unblockable)

3) "Shake it off" (stun break/condi clean)

4) Literally anything you need (not really decided, theres alot of good things to round out the build, "on my mark" is good to round out the burst aspect and make it faster to achieve)

5) Signet of Rage (20 stacks of might easy)

 

heres a simple damage breakdown on the heavy golem

 

https://imgur.com/opXgDBo

 

Wait, soo, the meme build, but instead of blood reckoning its using To the limit?

And if you miss, get interrupted, get blinded or obstructed you're burned on everything?
And all of that gives you 10k on heavies?

 

Can I fight this in arena?

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Stalima.5490]

40 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Wait, soo, the meme build, but instead of blood reckoning its using To the limit?

And if you miss, get interrupted, get blinded or obstructed you're burned on everything?
And all of that gives you 10k on heavies?

 

Can I fight this in arena?

 

 

You re ignoring the fact that the dummies are generally tougher than the majority of players, on light players this build has seen burst hits for over 17k and then the volley, the part that does the actual damage output kicks in afterwards.

 

bear in mind that 3700x5 = 18500 and you can do this twice with 5 seconds break in addition to your burst strike and this is on the heavy dummy.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Stalima.5490

[fluffypaws.2860]

2 hours ago, Bast.7253 said:

But is that build any good in matches? Or just sprinting full speed to the other side of the arena while you wait for your cooldowns to come back and jump them with a series of stunlocks?

Not dissing you. Just wondering how well the build works when you have to stand on a capture point and can't rely on l.o.s.

It seems like the core longbow build is similarly bunker-y but I don't ever see anyone playing it in matches. Spellbreaker still seems to be pretty king in matches from what I can tell but it seems like it's mostly useful for pulls and full counter dazes. 

Ah Mr Bast. No need for veiled insults or rhetorical questions, just be honest and call a spade . .

A spade !!

 

 

 

No love lost between us. There is none.

 

I neither need or want your analysis on how to play warrior or what builds are viable, nor how to kite or LoS.

 

Leave the discussion to people who know how to play warrior.

 

Thanks

[FoxGoesFloof.8049]

Lol good ole Mack spawned a new generation of axe/  axe wielding Berserkers.  You tell him buddy 💯

[Bast.7253]

11 hours ago, Mack.3045 said:

Ah Mr Bast. No need for veiled insults or rhetorical questions, just be honest and call a spade . .

A spade !!

 

 

 

No love lost between us. There is none.

 

I neither need or want your analysis on how to play warrior or what builds are viable, nor how to kite or LoS.

 

Leave the discussion to people who know how to play warrior.

 

Thanks

So is that a no?

I haven't seen your build in a single match. I'm assuming there's a reason for that.

Also, I was asking for YOUR analysis in regards to the build and how viable it is in conquest. 

Because it seems pretty strong in a 1v1, but if more than one person gets on you what do you do? Does it have any team fight capability or is it more of a troll/sidenode build? 

But you're right, I don't play warrior much. Alucard gave me a decent zerker build the other day that's pretty fun but I'm not sure it has the sustain that Spellbreaker does and isn't that much of a damage boost. 

[fluffypaws.2860]

3 hours ago, Bast.7253 said:

So is that a no?

I haven't seen your build in a single match. I'm assuming there's a reason for that.

Also, I was asking for YOUR analysis in regards to the build and how viable it is in conquest. 

Because it seems pretty strong in a 1v1, but if more than one person gets on you what do you do? Does it have any team fight capability or is it more of a troll/sidenode build? 

But you're right, I don't play warrior much. Alucard gave me a decent zerker build the other day that's pretty fun but I'm not sure it has the sustain that Spellbreaker does and isn't that much of a damage boost. 

When you stop being a tool in the shed and trolling in the arena and apologize, I'm happy to give you my analysis. 👌

[Bast.7253]

2 hours ago, Mack.3045 said:

When you stop being a tool in the shed and trolling in the arena and apologize, I'm happy to give you my analysis. 👌

lol It's cool. I'll enjoy the game I like. I would advise you to consider enlisting in a private map if you're truly THAT distraught about it all. 

I've never used it but I'm happy to figure out the interface if you're struggling with it!

[fluffypaws.2860]

1 hour ago, Bast.7253 said:

lol It's cool. I'll enjoy the game I like. I would advise you to consider enlisting in a private map if you're truly THAT distraught about it all. 

I've never used it but I'm happy to figure out the interface if you're struggling with it!

Minimising and trivialising trolling behaviour Mr Bast... I'm not surprised !

 

Good day to you.

[felix.2386]

On 5/16/2021 at 12:56 PM, crewthief.8649 said:

I suppose so, if the standard is “moderate success” that only a handful can achieve. Compare that against some of the meta classes/specs (like Scourge, Prot Holo, FT Scrapper, etc.) and the amount of risk versus reward of each as compared to Warrior.

yea,  except the fact that people who does good on warrior will do better on other classes.

boyce doing good on warrior in stream but countless times he tried to address warrior's issue and indicate how it would be easier on other classes.

and even as a ranger main and plays basically every class, he still try to explain to everybody how warrior is bad in stream.

and that anyone who think warrior isnt weak in core needs to actually start multi class and get a actual grasp of overall classes mechanics and get good in this game.

instead of being completely biased one trick and garbage.

why theres barely any top player play warrior seriously, because they only play the best classes, all of them will tell you how warrior is bad and weak. yet they still like warrior, just like how warrior is boyce favorite class even tho he mains ranger and plays all classess and doesnt play warrior in tournaments.

farther explain how fair of a class warrior is.

Edited May 20, 2021 by felix.2386

[felix.2386]

Also you have to realize even at the current state of the warrior

is being carried heavily by a bugged trait that grant 25% skill CD reduction instead of 15% reduction.

 

if this trait get fixed, warrior will drop even farther.

[crewthief.8649]

11 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

Also you have to realize even at the current state of the warrior

is being carried heavily by a bugged trait that grant 25% skill CD reduction instead of 15% reduction.

 

if this trait get fixed, warrior will drop even farther.

Preaching to the choir, bro. I’m with you 100%.

[Myror.7521]

@felix.2386 yea sure just let me gues a 0,5 seconds more cd on fullcounter would made something lols xD.

[DanSH.6143]

On 5/18/2021 at 4:56 AM, Stalima.5490 said:

Here's 2 images, one shows a 14.3k gunflame in the log, the other shows a 14.5k decapitate in the log, with certain modifiers this goes even higher in pvp matches.

 

https://imgur.com/rW1uPLs

 

https://imgur.com/4RxTOaQ

 

Oh and this pales in comparison to the fact that in the same build, the Axe 5 is capable of over 20000 damage in 1 button.

 

I couldn't decide on the last utility but you do not need the banner of strength for this.

I have never seen a warrior with off-hand axe do well in pvp.

Warrior is in a bad place atm, there's literally 1 build you can play which is probably the worst at its role.

[Guirssane.7082]

When I see a warrior on a side node I usually go like this in my mind "ty for the node already"... Unless it's a godlike war 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 5/18/2021 at 2:13 AM, Stalima.5490 said:

You re ignoring the fact that the dummies are generally tougher than the majority of players, on light players this build has seen burst hits for over 17k and then the volley, the part that does the actual damage output kicks in afterwards.

 

bear in mind that 3700x5 = 18500 and you can do this twice with 5 seconds break in addition to your burst strike and this is on the heavy dummy.

 

I went to go mess with this just to make sure I wasn't insane, and I have a few comments.

 

First, Volley channels over 2.5 seconds. Nobody who gets hit by Gunflame (as telegraphed as this is, mind you) is going to stick around for Volley, especially because warriors have no distance hard cc like ranger to compel them to not dodge. 3700 X 5 is good damage on paper, but in context anyone that is even marginally aware that there is a rifle warrior close by will not allow themselves to be hit by all five of those shots.

 

The 5 second break part is irrelevant regarding the damage delivery for the same reason. it will take less than 5 seconds for most classes to gap close. 

 

That brings me to the nature of your build:
 

On 5/18/2021 at 12:47 AM, Stalima.5490 said:

 

Believe what you want but all this build needs to do is use its heal, use its elite and then burst, if the target is nearby the berserk activation will deal an additional 4k+ on top of your burst attack, the last utility is an open slot, the banner is irrelevant to the damage output with these numbers and thus you can just use endure pain, the build in the screen shot is as follows:

 

equips:

 

Berserker amulet with scholar runes. (the sheer damage output means you can also drop to demolisher easily enough for a tougher approach)
Rifle with courage and separation sigils. (heavy long range damage)

Any preferred secondary weapon, likely axe/shield or axe/axe or mace/shield

 

Traits:

 

Strength 3/3/1

Arms 2/2/1

Berserker 1/1/1

 

I was considering swapping to savage instinct for the invuln at the start making it harder to attack.

 

Utilities:

 

1) "To the limit!" (when cheesing allows you to instantly go into berserker mode and insta pop someone immediately)

2) Signet of might (Unblockable)

3) "Shake it off" (stun break/condi clean)

4) Literally anything you need (not really decided, theres alot of good things to round out the build, "on my mark" is good to round out the burst aspect and make it faster to achieve)

5) Signet of Rage (20 stacks of might easy)

 

heres a simple damage breakdown on the heavy golem

 

https://imgur.com/opXgDBo

 

I'm going to ignore the "if the target is nearby the berserk activation will deal an additional 4k+ on top of your burst attack" part, because your build is built for opening at a distance with scholar runes and separation sigils. You're not going to be getting that 4k in most cases.  (You also wont get the 21% extra damage from zerker's power because berserk -has- to hit in order to activate that, but I will assume you have the 21% buff anyway). 

 

I'm also going to ignore the "I was considering swapping to savage instinct for the invuln at the start making it harder to attack" part, because nobody is going to trade blows with you when there is a gun flame aimed at them unless it is an interrupt, which savage instinct does not protect against.

 

Your build is the current strongest possible option for single target damage on rifle warrior. Granted. Is it good or viable? no.

 

While it does do significant amounts of damage, the amount of windup it takes to achieve that damage (Cast signet of rage - > Cast signet of might - > Cast your heal - > cast Berserk - > Cast gunflame) is so egregiously time consuming, managing to hit anyone with it that has even a cursory notion of your existence is a tall order in and of itself. 

 

Further, in the event you miss, get blinded, get interrupted, get gap closed, get line of sighted, or fail to kill the person you hit with the initial gunflame (since gunflame doesn't guarantee you will get anything out of volley since daze doesn't prevent movement), you are highly likely to need to swap to deal with a threat now close to you because warrior rifle cannot deal with close threats.

 

And since you've burned most of your utilities to use that burst and haven't taken the discipline line, you now

 

* have to survive for 10 seconds to be able to swap back to rifle 

* have to build adrenaline in the next 20 seconds on strike damage alone because you've burned rage signet and dont have adren gain on swap

* If you do not build adrenaline in the next 20 seconds, you will need to survive for an additional 15 seconds for berserker to cool down, and build adrenaline to reactivate it again

* Need to do all of this without stability, no mobility, no heal and (depending on your flavor, mace or axe mainhand) 1/no blocks or no damage. 

That's why, despite the build doing heavy damage, you don't see a glut of rifle warriors doing anything in any spvp competitive gamemode that isn't unranked. It's not feasible to expect to see it anywhere outside of  pve/wvw. 

 

I'd like to fight this in arena to confirm, still. I'll use full melee Zerker and you can start from as far away as you need. 

 

You basically did the gohan meme: 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261
proofreading

[Stalima.5490]

On 5/21/2021 at 6:17 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

I went to go mess with this just to make sure I wasn't insane, and I have a few comments.

 

First, Volley channels over 2.5 seconds. Nobody who gets hit by Gunflame (as telegraphed as this is, mind you) is going to stick around for Volley, especially because warriors have no distance hard cc like ranger to compel them to not dodge. 3700 X 5 is good damage on paper, but in context anyone that is even marginally aware that there is a rifle warrior close by will not allow themselves to be hit by all five of those shots.

 

The 5 second break part is irrelevant regarding the damage delivery for the same reason. it will take less than 5 seconds for most classes to gap close. 

 

That brings me to the nature of your build:
 

 

I'm going to ignore the "if the target is nearby the berserk activation will deal an additional 4k+ on top of your burst attack" part, because your build is built for opening at a distance with scholar runes and separation sigils. You're not going to be getting that 4k in most cases.  (You also wont get the 21% extra damage from zerker's power because berserk -has- to hit in order to activate that, but I will assume you have the 21% buff anyway). 

 

I'm also going to ignore the "I was considering swapping to savage instinct for the invuln at the start making it harder to attack" part, because nobody is going to trade blows with you when there is a gun flame aimed at them unless it is an interrupt, which savage instinct does not protect against.

 

Your build is the current strongest possible option for single target damage on rifle warrior. Granted. Is it good or viable? no.

 

While it does do significant amounts of damage, the amount of windup it takes to achieve that damage (Cast signet of rage - > Cast signet of might - > Cast your heal - > cast Berserk - > Cast gunflame) is so egregiously time consuming, managing to hit anyone with it that has even a cursory notion of your existence is a tall order in and of itself. 

 

Further, in the event you miss, get blinded, get interrupted, get gap closed, get line of sighted, or fail to kill the person you hit with the initial gunflame (since gunflame doesn't guarantee you will get anything out of volley since daze doesn't prevent movement), you are highly likely to need to swap to deal with a threat now close to you because warrior rifle cannot deal with close threats.

 

And since you've burned most of your utilities to use that burst and haven't taken the discipline line, you now

 

* have to survive for 10 seconds to be able to swap back to rifle 

* have to build adrenaline in the next 20 seconds on strike damage alone because you've burned rage signet and dont have adren gain on swap

* If you do not build adrenaline in the next 20 seconds, you will need to survive for an additional 15 seconds for berserker to cool down, and build adrenaline to reactivate it again

* Need to do all of this without stability, no mobility, no heal and (depending on your flavor, mace or axe mainhand) 1/no blocks or no damage. 

That's why, despite the build doing heavy damage, you don't see a glut of rifle warriors doing anything in any spvp competitive gamemode that isn't unranked. It's not feasible to expect to see it anywhere outside of  pve/wvw. 

 

I'd like to fight this in arena to confirm, still. I'll use full melee Zerker and you can start from as far away as you need. 

 

You basically did the gohan meme: 

 

 

You are making the mistake of believing that one, single option within a particular build is the only way to fight your enemy, There are open ended points in this build such as taking  mace/shield for defensives rather than going the dual axe route, there is also an entire utility slot that is open to ideas to boost literally any area of that particular build.

 

Furthermore, the only component that is tied to the actual damage output in the utilities is the elite signet, a build is little more than a concept of a way to play the game and as such can be altered and improved for a particular situation.

 

I was asked to show that warriors can do rediculous crits and that is what i have done, if your target dies basically instantly then you usually do not need to defend against them, and if the defenses of such a build are increased you then have a build that doesn't die and can 1-shot.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Stalima.5490 said:

You are making the mistake of believing that one, single option within a particular build is the only way to fight your enemy, There are open ended points in this build such as taking  mace/shield for defensives rather than going the dual axe route, there is also an entire utility slot that is open to ideas to boost literally any area of that particular build.

 

No, I considered these options as well. That's why I said this:

 

* Need to do all of this without stability, no mobility, no heal and (depending on your flavor, mace or axe mainhand) 1/no blocks or no damage. 

 

There's no option on the board here that makes you less prone to die in terms of weapon sets or utilities, because you took arms instead of discipline. That means the moment you swap off of rifle you need to live for 10 seconds before even considering getting yourself into position for another rifle shot (unless you're going axe/shield in which case still see above). The problem isn't with your weapon sets or utilites, it's that by stacking your traitlines to get omegadamage you've put yourself in a position where you cannot deal with anyone that can gap close or who evades your shot, no matter if you take sword, axe, or mace mainhand or mace, shield offhand, or GS. You'll be locked into that weapon for 10 seconds with no adrenaline, and in zerker you cannot burst unless adren is full. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Stalima.5490 said:

Furthermore, the only component that is tied to the actual damage output in the utilities is the elite signet, a build is little more than a concept of a way to play the game and as such can be altered and improved for a particular situation.

 

Your traitlines, heal, and might signet are too. The whole reason you're getting that damage on top of the rage sig is because you stacked every damage modifier you could.

 

I'm not very concerned about your utility choices outside of rage signet as much as I am concerned with the fact that you can do nothing except die should you miss, in addition to the fact that you need to extremely telegraph gunflame before even getting access to it in the first place.

 

A build is little more than a concept to play the game, sure, but your concept of what makes warrior viable is incorrect. 

 

1 hour ago, Stalima.5490 said:

I was asked to show that warriors can do rediculous crits and that is what i have done, if your target dies basically instantly then you usually do not need to defend against them, and if the defenses of such a build are increased you then have a build that doesn't die and can 1-shot.

 

You were asked to show this because I didn't expect you to be talking about what is essentially the meme build for gun flame that warriors play in unranked for fun. I expected more than that. It would be better for the thread to know what you were talking about as well. 

 

You stated "Berserker can instant kill" with the implication that it was viable to do so or that it mitigated the problems with warrior, when the build you were referring to that can achieve that damage is even more susceptible to the same basic gameplay maneuvers that keep warrior and berserker out of the meta to begin with. There's a reason you don't see rifle oneshot warriors everywhere. It's not just because they don't want to go strength/arms/zerker and wind up for 3-4 seconds for a chance to put one person into downstate; it's because on top of that already egregious telegraph they cannot respond to anyone that decides to port next to them.

 

I am pretty sure every class in this game has a build where they can stack all damage traitlines and kill someone on a glass amulet, even now. That doesn't make it effective to use, and it certainly doesn't solve warrior's issues. 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261