Buff the Shadow Behemoth world boss.

[Aodlop.1907]

I get that it's the new player area, but that thing SCREAMS at you while you're facing its massive frightening head and you take 0 damage from it. Nothing happens.

The damage doesn't have to be lethal. It doesn't even have to remove more than 1/5 of my health. But I'd like to take some damage during that encounter so that I may feel like that massive, epic looking monster that's the size of a building is actually a threat to me. 

Something as simple as some AoE poisonous bolts would be enough. You know, something. 

[FrigginPaco.4178]

I mean... Buff all the vanilla world bosses, but they won't until after EoD drops at the absolute earliest.

[Fueki.4753]

18 minutes ago, FrigginPaco.4178 said:

I mean... Buff all the vanilla world bosses, but they won't until after EoD drops at the absolute earliest.

I don't think the current Shadow Behemoth counts as vanilla anymore.

It already got reworked once.

 

I agree that it could use another rework though.

[sasya neko.1985]

what about not buffing everything all the time and leave the low level bosses alone, if you want a challenge go to a max level area.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

34 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I don't think the current Shadow Behemoth counts as vanilla anymore.

It already got reworked once.

 

I agree that it could use another rework though.

Sure, but in the sense that it forms part of the contemporary vanilla experience is perhaps a better way to describe what I mean.

I remember when conditions started to affect WBs. I remember even after doubling their HP they were never quite the same. I'm a proponent for upkeep, but there are many factors that prevent these things from taking place. I just wish the game was as popular as I thought it deserved to be, but there's no indication that would necessarily change anything.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

1 minute ago, sorudo.9054 said:

what about not buffing everything all the time and leave the low level bosses alone, if you want a challenge go to a max level area.

What is this "all the time" you speak of?

[sasya neko.1985]

Just now, FrigginPaco.4178 said:

What is this "all the time" you speak of?

every single time something is easy ppl whine and complain it needs a buff and when something is buffed you have a huge outcry that it's impossible to do by casuals (like me)

[FrigginPaco.4178]

1 minute ago, sorudo.9054 said:

every single time something is easy ppl whine and complain it needs a buff and when something is buffed you have a huge outcry that it's impossible to do by casuals (like me)

Let me be clear, I'm looking for an example of a thing that got buffed, not the outcry. Like you say, there's always a group of us players who'd like generally harder overworld content, but since when have things actually been buffed in recent times?

[sasya neko.1985]

Just now, FrigginPaco.4178 said:

Let me be clear, I'm looking for an example of a thing that got buffed, not the outcry. Like you say, there's always a group of us players who'd like generally harder overworld content, but since when have things actually been buffed in recent times?

they started with HoT, i don't think i have to talk about it to know what happened.....

[Sobx.1758]

Nah, if you want stronger bosses, you can find them in different areas.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

HoT's difficulty was worth it and then was scaled down later. I'd say that was a nerf. The overworld is already less dangerous, but the fact that World Bosses don't carry a threat of failing them unless it's due to population is a bit boring.

As far as our experiences as players go, I don't know how you play and you don't know how I play. But the fact that I say things are too easy and you say things are just fine/hard enough as they are is a point of departure. The only time I fail things in open world are due to needing more people to get through a health bar/cc bar fast enough to beat the timer.

That's fundamentally frustrating/boring.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

I should mention, buff = change/alter their mechanics to make them more interesting. Most Word Bosses just sit in one place anyway. They're awfully cinematic the first few times you fight them, but even in pre-HoT they got boring super fast.

[Ayrilana.1396]

1 hour ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

I get that it's the new player area, but that thing SCREAMS at you while you're facing its massive frightening head and you take 0 damage from it. Nothing happens.

The damage doesn't have to be lethal. It doesn't even have to remove more than 1/5 of my health. But I'd like to take some damage during that encounter so that I may feel like that massive, epic looking monster that's the size of a building is actually a threat to me. 

Something as simple as some AoE poisonous bolts would be enough. You know, something. 

 

It does lay down fields that cause damage to players.

[Aodlop.1907]

42 minutes ago, sorudo.9054 said:

what about not buffing everything all the time and leave the low level bosses alone, if you want a challenge go to a max level area.

Well, I've been a low level player discovering the game for the first time, and even back then I thought it was a shame that such an epic looking monster didn't deal any damage whatsoever. New players aren't babies that need constant heldholding or else they'll be frustrated. This boss is boring because it does nothing.

 

11 minutes ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

It does lay down fields that cause damage to players.

Those fields must be away from the one spot where all players stack on top of one another then. If anything, they should drop here and cause some damage on impact to force players to move a bit.

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

Well, I've been a low level player discovering the game for the first time, and even back then I thought it was a shame that such an epic looking monster didn't deal any damage whatsoever. New players aren't babies that need constant heldholding or else they'll be frustrated. This boss is boring because it does nothing.

Or maybe move to later/harder content instead of trying to buff starting zone one

[Aodlop.1907]

I disagree. The appeal of GW2 is that even low level zones are populated because they're still relevant thanks to masteries, proper loot and gold making. 

[Sobx.1758]

32 minutes ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

I disagree. The appeal of GW2 is that even low level zones are populated because they're still relevant thanks to masteries, proper loot and gold making. 

"Low level zones populated because they're still relevant thanks to masteries(...)"?

Loot and gold making? Not exactly anything insane for what you can alternatively do later.

 

And what does any of that have to do with what was written above, which was you wanting to buff the difficulty of low level zones' content to match late/end-game players instead of the newbies?

 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Zephire.8049]

Or we could leave the newbie world bosses alone unless it's to make them better teaching tools for mechanics.

 

SB already lays down large damage fields, does a fear or knockdown if you're slow in destroying the portals, has portals that spawn mobs that range from being regular to being champions, and you can't run through the SB because its body does damage to you if you attempt that. It essentially teaches new players to pay attention to visuals and to work together rather than go it alone.

 

The only reason why it doesn't seem difficult is because if you do it when most level 80s are doing world boss trains, there's a ton of level 80s pumping out stability and healing and cleansing so you don't have to pay attention to the mechanics or what you do.

 

If you want challenges, go to HoT or later and do Drakkar for a challenging world boss that fails more often than not. SB also doesn't drop interesting exclusive loot so you can just skip it, letting newer players have their fun and spend that time doing some other farm (e.g. Drizzlewood or Silverwastes) to make more gold in the same amount of time.

[Ayrilana.1396]

2 hours ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

Well, I've been a low level player discovering the game for the first time, and even back then I thought it was a shame that such an epic looking monster didn't deal any damage whatsoever. New players aren't babies that need constant heldholding or else they'll be frustrated. This boss is boring because it does nothing.

 

Those fields must be away from the one spot where all players stack on top of one another then. If anything, they should drop here and cause some damage on impact to force players to move a bit.

 

They're on the stack.  The issue is that there's just so many players popping off AoE heal spells that you don't notice it.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

I'm not against giving it a couple extra attacks, maybe knock downs to limit the above mentioned AoE heals.  Its not as if most of the players fighting the thing at any given time are actually new players/characters.  SB's probably the weakest WB even compared to the other starter zone WBs.

[Veprovina.4876]

I mean, there's already a lot of challenging bosses, there has to be a few "tutorial" world bosses in starter zones so that low level players can also participate and experience the event. There's no need to buff. The reason it's "weak" is because lvl 80 full stat infusion ascended people are doing it as a world boss train. But as far as the "teaching experience" for newbies goes, Shadow Behemot is ok. Doesn't need to be stronger.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Veprovina.4876
Typos.

[Ayrilana.1396]

All of the starter zone world bosses are very easy

Edited May 24, 2021 by Ayrilana.1396

[Fueki.4753]

9 hours ago, FrigginPaco.4178 said:

Let me be clear, I'm looking for an example of a thing that got buffed, not the outcry. Like you say, there's always a group of us players who'd like generally harder overworld content, but since when have things actually been buffed in recent times?

Since noone seemed to have answered this; the reworks of Tequatl and The Shatterer made them noticeably harder.

Although these haven't been recently. And you can't have these changes without public outcry from average players.

 

But your slice of the playerbase that actually wants harder content is so small that (by all appearances) Arenanet seems to consider your slice negligible. It's simply not worth putting those resources into content that attract such a low amount of players.

While they are instanced and not open world, we saw multiple times with raids, certain fractals and the Boneskinner that Arenanet tried to make harder content multiple times and seemingly just gave up on it. I can't imagine them trying make harder content for that slice of the playerbase again.

[Omega.6801]

8 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

"Low level zones populated because they're still relevant thanks to masteries(...)"?

Loot and gold making? Not exactly anything insane for what you can alternatively do later.

 

And what does any of that have to do with what was written above, which was you wanting to buff the difficulty of low level zones' content to match late/end-game players instead of the newbies?

tbf, asking for new mechanics that are more engaging and a big, telegraphed attack to deal MORE damage, not LETHAL, not 80%, just enough to make you feel it but not more than 1/5 of player HP, is hardly asking for world bosses in beginner zones to be on par with raid bosses or HoT/PoF Metas.

 

I'd be all in for a rework, that makes it so that people need to use cc skills or needs players to dodge maybe an attack. This would teach people more about how to play the game and what abilities they actually have and would prepare new players better for the endgame so they don't bash their heads against HoT and the likes.

I understand why having a world boss oneshot crowds of players or plastering the whole area with deadly AoEs isn't suited for beginner zones and I don't think the OP is talking about that either. There's lots of design space between the low bar of entry that are beginner level world bosses and Dhuum CM and it would be nice if ANet brought some of the old content(world Bosses, Dungeons, Orr) up to date.

Also, this might be more of a matter of taste, but ANet did a realy great job at making the core world bosses "cinematic", i. e. they have big animations, good sound effects and the events around them contextualize them and make them feel pat of a story. I understand that these encounters feel less epic when there's no risk involved. The audiovisual experience does not match with what happens during the actual event. On the other hand, going back to a starter boss, max level, geared up in ascendeds and legendaries should feel less threatening than facing the same boss as a beginner with only some abilities unlocked in Lvl32 greens

One of the main problems is the huge gap between player skill in this game. Not just between newer players and veterans, generally. It is very hard to design a world boss that is scaling good enough to balance out varying populations, easy enough so a beginner can survive, mechanically chalenging enough so a veteran feels like risking something; while being rewarding enough fo people to do it when it pops up yet not rewarding enough to either farm it or threaten the gem/gold exchange.

tl,dr: Maybe if early world bosses were machanically a bit more challenging, players would become more proficient in the game mechanics and would be better prepared for later encounters. Nothing life-threatening, just a well telegraphed attack with a cc bar attached to it, that the zerg has to break to prevent taking a hit, big enough to feel but not big enough to oneshot players with 20% or more health. No one wants to bring the horrors of Fractal CMs into starter zones.

 

[Zephire.8049]

3 minutes ago, lokh.2695 said:

tl,dr: Maybe if early world bosses were machanically a bit more challenging, players would become more proficient in the game mechanics and would be better prepared for later encounters. Nothing life-threatening, just a well telegraphed attack with a cc bar attached to it, that the zerg has to break to prevent taking a hit, big enough to feel but not big enough to oneshot players with 20% or more health. No one wants to bring the horrors of Fractal CMs into starter zones.

There also has to be consideration for player retention and making the first world boss people come across too punishing doesn't help with retention, especially with GW2 billing itself as a casual-friendly MMO. You can scale things up when it comes to difficulty and mechanics, but a game really only has one shot at a good first impression and if someone's first experience is eating dirt because a starter boss was tuned more for veteran players than newbies, why would they stick around when there are other games they can play for free that don't essentially insult them for the grave sin of being new?

 

World bosses are dated when it comes to clear telegraphing (and that can definitely be improved) but they still teach things.

 

SB teaches:

• AOE is bad
• Don't try to solo everything
• Don't run through things that hurt
• Actually do mechanics because if you don't, you and the people you're with are going to be punished for it
• Pay attention to pre-events and whether or not they're being done

 

Shaman:

• Stability is good
• Watch for moving AOE's
• Bosses can change phases
• How to change your graphics settings and/or play with <10 FPS

 

Fire Elemental:

• Fire = bad
• Defend highlighted areas
• Mobs continually spawn during defense events
• You sometimes have to do escorts to get the event you want

 

Jungle Wurm:

• Stability is good (again)
• Bad AOE is denoted using an orange circle
• Pay attention to where you are so you can avoid damage/CC
• Enemies telegraph their attacks and you can use that to avoid them

 

Yeah they don't have breakbars, but few of the OG world bosses do (and aside from Karka Queen, they don't really do much anyway) and it would make more sense in a revamp to make mid-level world bosses have more clear cut mechanics rather than throw a ton of mechanics at new players who are still figuring out how to dodge and don't know they can buy things off the TP anywhere in the game.

 

There can (and should) be a tutorial for breakbars in starter zones, but they should be their own thing where players can take time to read their skills instead of tied to events that demand attention and don't allow time for players to look at what all they're doing and changing their skills around.

 

It sucks when you're doing events with people who ignore any and all mechanics, but you can't just throw everything at people who are new, be it in gaming or in real life. Once people get their feet under them, that's when you start introducing more things to know—you don't shoot a water cannon at someone who's trying to stand up.