Proposed Name Changes For Superior Rune Of The Trapper

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

32 minutes ago, DanSH.6143 said:

It won't hit for 9k most of the times. You need Spear of Justice tethered to the target for that. If you have the spear you have a tell.

 

 

I'm not built properly but I threw together a build that's probably close to meta. Perhaps I'm missing something.

 

Connecting spear isn't difficult because it doesn't pulse reveal on the DH. 

 

Convince me, though. Explain where the tell is. Keep in mind that tether is also invisible when you are stealthed, and true shot is invisible until it hits you. 

 

Gif 1

Gif 2

Gif 3

Edited June 3, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[DanSH.6143]

8 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

I'm not built properly but I threw together a build that's probably close to meta. Perhaps I'm missing something.

 

Explain where the tell is. Keep in mind that tether is also invisible when you are stealthed, and true shot is invisible until it hits you. 

 

Gif 1

Gif 2

The tell is that you get tethered by the spear, how is that not obvious? When I'm fighting other DH it's really obvious and predictable. You also have a spear of justice debuff when you're tethered. The only problem I have fighting DH is that sometimes it's not clear who's actually tethered to who if we're both targeting each other lol.

And I forgot to mention, that dmg is also dependent on you having Aegis for the +20% dmg modifier (assuming you are using the build most of us run). That's also one of the reasons I use Retreat as I can use right before True Shot hits the target for the extra dmg.

Zerk DH is a low low budget version of Deadeye, with 1 perk of having AoE dmg that isn't projectile based.

Nice bow btw 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

27 minutes ago, DanSH.6143 said:

The tell is that you get tethered by the spear, how is that not obvious?

 

The problem I have with that is that you have a large window of time to decide when/where you want to put that shot through. 

 

Being tethered by the spear doesnt necessarily indicate when the shot is about to hit you. It just gives you a vague window about when you might be hit. 

 

27 minutes ago, DanSH.6143 said:

You also have a spear of justice debuff when you're tethered.

 

This, however is a good point. I did overlook this. That, combined with the fact that you can see the traps being placed is at least something. I still think True Shot should reveal on cast, if Trapper rune is to remain however. A ten-ish second blind window where you can be hit for 9k at any time is still a lot, even with the justice debuff indicating the window.

 

 

27 minutes ago, DanSH.6143 said:

Nice bow btw

 

Thank

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Math.5123]

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

The problem I have with that is that you have a large window of time to decide when/where you want to put that shot through. 

 

Being tethered by the spear doesnt necessarily indicate when the shot is about to hit you. It just gives you a vague window about when you might be hit. 

 

 

This, however is a good point. I did overlook this. That, combined with the fact that you can see the traps being placed is at least something. I still think True Shot should reveal on cast, if Trapper rune is to remain however. A ten-ish second blind window where you can be hit for 9k at any time is still a lot, even with the justice debuff indicating the window.

 

 

 

Thank

 

A ten-ish second window to get hit? So the DH burns his heal and 2/3 utilities to hit you for (and I'll highball this) 10k damage. 

Then what? He has nothing after that, you have about 14 seconds to deal 11k damage to him. 

 

If you tell me which class you play, we can give you tips on how to beat it. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

A ten-ish second window to get hit?

 

So the DH burns his heal and 2/3 utilities to hit you for (and I'll highball this) 10k damage. 

 

I wasn't referring to the stealth from spamming traps when I referred to "10 seconds". I was referring to the time it takes for the spear tether itself to expire. The gif was just a reference as to how long you have to position yourself for TS, not a granular breakdown of how a burst functions. 

 

2 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

If you tell me which class you play, we can give you tips on how to beat it. 

 

I play every class to some extent, but I predominantly play glass Daredevil and glass Berserker. Humor me, I'd like to hear what you come up with. My Thief has 11k HP, by the way.

 

 Like I said, I don't want it nerfed into oblivion. At the very least, skills that can hit you for 9-10k+ from far away should have an indication that is visible or audible before they land. A 1-3 second reveal on TS would go a long way in making using blocks/evades against them more useful, and opening them to the threat of reflects more consistently. I don't have a major problem with beating Dragonhunters in most cases, but it's still super unhealthy to deal with and requires significantly more effort on my part than it does on theirs. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Kuma.1503]

I think the root of the problem is that stealth isn't very well implemented in this game. 

[Math.5123]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

I wasn't referring to the stealth from spamming traps when I referred to "10 seconds". I was referring to the time it takes for the spear tether itself to expire. The gif was just a reference as to how long you have to position yourself for TS, not a granular breakdown of how a burst functions. 

 

 

I play every class to some extent, but I predominantly play glass Daredevil and glass Berserker. Humor me, I'd like to hear what you come up with. My Thief has 11k HP, by the way.

 

 Like I said, I don't want it nerfed into oblivion. At the very least, skills that can hit you for 9-10k+ from far away should have an indication that is visible or audible before they land. A 1-3 second reveal on TS would go a long way in making using blocks/evades against them more useful, and opening them to the threat of reflects more consistently. I don't have a major problem with beating Dragonhunters in most cases, but it's still super unhealthy to deal with and requires significantly more effort on my part than it does on theirs. 

Glass daredevil, I assume you're running crit and kitten? You should be able to out stealth the dh and burst him through block with basi and swipe. I would go full yolo if you're already running glass, so that means assassin Signet as well. You will win that trade. 

 

Glass berserker, reroll. You won't win much of anything on that build, and that isn't a DH problem. 

 

Edit; when you stated a 10 second window right after you mentioned that TS needed a reveal added to it. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Math.5123

[razaelll.8324]

1 hour ago, Kuma.1503 said:

I think the root of the problem is that stealth isn't very well implemented in this game. 

Complitely agree with this the way it works promote uninteractive gameplay

[GuriGashi.5617]

On 6/1/2021 at 4:17 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

That's not even within the ballpark of being true.

 

1. Stealthing with Smokescale is a prebuff kind of thing that is very clunky to pull off. It's not the same as having a bunch of on-demand stealth skills.
2. Rangers cannot hold 1v2s and 1v3s on side nodes my good dude. If you're talking p2+ vs. gold 1 ok, but the same could be done with any class at that point. When you are talking p2+ vs. p2+ Ranger is middle tier at best on side nodes right now.
3. Please explain to me how a Ranger is holding a node 1v3 while constantly stealthing in the way that you seem to believe it is capable of doing.
4. DHs are no longer glass cannons. The implementation of Resolution and buffs to Longbow have allowed DHs to be quite tanky lately actually, while maintaining most of that big damage output now mostly leaning on the power side of things.
5. Something doesn't need to be broken OP massively strong to be stupid. I had ran a test on this via twitch and posted it awhile back, which I'm sure some people remember. I'm sorry but DHs do not need so much stealth & super speed that they can run from mid in legacy to far in legacy, while completely stealthed.

Aside from what you've tried to say in your post here, Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast is more on par with Engineer for stealthing. But in terms of self-stealthing capabilities, DH is very seriously on par with DP Daredevil for stealthing right now. You could try and use Rune Of The Stealth God on Ranger, but it doesn't pan out nearly as well as it does on DH because traps on Ranger are kind of a bad option to begin with. But even so, even if the Runes were very useful on Ranger, that is not the Ranger's fault, it is the Rune's fault that it would be granting so much more stealth to Ranger. And thus the point of this thread.

You don‘t get my point - question isn‘t who has more stealth - but who has already a ton of sustain in addition to stealth

 

A Dragonhunter (3 stealths which instantly reveal you) with 11K HP, a block skill and 1 Stunbreak who is specced into full glass canon, is a roamer and barely can 1v1 a few match-ups

 

or

 

A Ranger (also 3 stealths which DON’T instantly reveal you) with 20K HP, several stunbreaks, GS block, mobility, Smokescale evade, protection, condition removal and who can easily survive outnumbered situations. Not even to mention that Sick‘em Soulbeasts outdps Dragonhunters easily while being alot tankier and having the same amount of stealth, which doesn‘t instantly reveal you

 

I mean you can make funny names in the forum all you want - Anet won‘t remove the rune, but what Anet will do is nerf the sustain of ranger in the next months, big promise

Edited June 4, 2021 by snoow.1694

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

13 minutes ago, snoow.1694 said:

You don‘t get my point - question isn‘t who has more stealth - but who has already a ton of sustain in addition to stealth

 

A Dragonhunter (3 stealths which instantly reveal you) with 11K HP, a block skill and 1 Stunbreak who is specced into full glass canon, is a roamer and barely can 1v1 only a few match ups

 

or

 

A Ranger (also 3 stealths which DON’T instantly reveal you) with 20K HP, several stunbreaks, GS block, mobility, protection, condition removal and who can easily survive outnumbered situations. Not even to mention that Sick‘em Soulbeasts outdps Dragonhunters easily while being alot tankier and having the same amount of sealth, which doesn‘t instantly reveal you

 

I mean you can make funny names in the forum all you want - Anet won‘t remove the rune, but what Anet will do is nerf the sustain of ranger within the next patches, big promise

 

 

This is that same shindig where someone somehow compresses every memory they have of a class and then melds it together into this mutated memory where "every ranger is as tanky as a core ranger side node" and "every ranger deals the damage of a glass cannon soulbeast" and "every ranger has the cleanse of a druid"

 

Furthermore, DHs are not rocking 11k builds right now. The resolution patch did a lot to change them towards being somewhat sustainy while running more power and a lot less condi.

 

 

[Ragnar.4257]

3 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

 

This is that same shindig where someone somehow compresses every memory they have of a class and then melds it together into this mutated memory where "every ranger is as tanky as a core ranger side node" and "every ranger deals the damage of a glass cannon soulbeast" and "every ranger has the cleanse of a druid"

 

Furthermore, DHs are not rocking 11k builds right now. The resolution patch did a lot to change them towards being somewhat sustainy while running more power and a lot less condi.

 

 

Irony much?

 

The complaints here are about 10k+ ganks out of stealth. You only get that from playing berserker amulet and 9x damage traits.

 

It seems you've committed yourself the very thing you say others are doing, by simultaneously asserting that DH can hit 10k+ trueshots and can also run non-zerker amulets and take sustain traits. If you run, say, marauders amulet and sustain-traits, your trueshots will be hitting around 3-4k, not 8-10k.

 

"every guardian is as tanky as core support" and "every guardian deals the damage of a glass cannon DH" - sound familiar?

Edited June 4, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

5 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Irony much?

 

The complaints here are about 10k+ ganks out of stealth. You only get that from playing berserker amulet and 9x damage traits.

 

It seems you've committed yourself the very thing you say others are doing, by simultaneously asserting that DH can hit 10k+ trueshots and can also run non-zerker amulets and take sustain traits. If you run, say, marauders amulet and sustain-traits, your trueshots will be hitting around 3-4k, not 8-10k.

 

"every guardian is as tanky as core support" and "every guardian deals the damage of a glass cannon DH" - sound familiar?

 

Woah woah, hold on there forum attack team.

 

The only thing I've said in this thread is that Rune Of The Trapper should go to 1s stealth & super speed. I said nothing even remotely close to what you've suggested.

 

What we are looking at here is a fine reflection of your associative behavior & attitude in general. You post in threads with this "forum attack" mentality which is quite clear in just about every response you make. You come in with the sheer intent to look for reasons to argue with someone and you like taking this angle where you shoot incriminating negativity to make others look foolish, which is quite clear in just about every response that you make. But right here, this response you made to me, should be a warning for you take seriously. You are looking too hard for reasons to be snarky and argue, so hard that when there isn't even anything to argue about at all, you are seeing what you want to see and fabricating something from nothing. I said nothing about the balance of DH outside of a statement that is 100% true "DHs are no longer running glass cannon. They are now more sustainy and running power LB builds." If it isn't quite clear from all of my statements on this topic within recent months, I do not care if DH is weak or strong. From a fundamental game design standpoint, I believe it to be wrong that Guardians are stealthing and moving around maps like DP Daredevils. End of story, the discussion on my end goes no further than that, so you can INB4 starting down that road with me.

 

Although I am disappointed today in both your forum etiquette and skills, I do know that you are wise enough to be able to review my statements in this thread and then your own response to me, and to be able to see that what you've said was completely uncalled for, overly aggressive, just plain toxic, and full of misinforming propaganda towards my actual statements and character in general.

 

This is also a reflection of the communication issues we face as a society in general. Look at the people who liked your response. This is a gruesome reality demonstrating how people are too apathic to pay attention to the actual details of a situation, who will bandwagon something belligerently because it is what they want to believe, without a single regard for what is actually happening.

 

It is good to practice mindfulness. This helps keep things rooted in reality, which in turn helps keep things clean & precise & more productive for everyone including yourself.

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Axl.8924]

I think you guys are overblowing this, let guardians be good.

 

 

[Ragnar.4257]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

Woah woah, hold on there forum attack team.

 

The only thing I've said in this thread is that Rune Of The Trapper should go to 1s stealth & super speed. I said nothing even remotely close to what you've suggested.

 

What we are looking at here is a fine reflection of your associative behavior & attitude in general. You post in threads with this "forum attack" mentality which is quite clear in just about every response you make. You come in with the sheer intent to look for reasons to argue with someone and you like taking this angle where you shoot incriminating negativity to make others look foolish, which is quite clear in just about every response that you make. But right here, this response you made to me, should be a warning for you take seriously. You are looking too hard for reasons to be snarky and argue, so hard that when there isn't even anything to argue about at all, you are seeing what you want to see and fabricating something from nothing. I said nothing about the balance of DH outside of a statement that is 100% true "DHs are no longer running glass cannon. They are now more sustainy and running power LB builds." If it isn't quite clear from all of my statements on this topic within recent months, I do not care if DH is weak or strong. From a fundamental game design standpoint, I believe it to be wrong that Guardians are stealthing and moving around maps like DP Daredevils. End of story, the discussion on my end goes no further than that, so you can INB4 starting down that road with me.

 

Although I am disappointed today in both your forum etiquette and skills, I do know that you are wise enough to be able to review my statements in this thread and then your own response to me, and to be able to see that what you've said was completely uncalled for, overly aggressive, just plain toxic, and full of misinforming propaganda towards my actual statements and character in general.

 

This is also a reflection of the communication issues we face as a society in general. Look at the people who liked your response. This is a gruesome reality demonstrating how people are too apathic to pay attention to the actual details of a situation, who will bandwagon something belligerently because it is what they want to believe, without a single regard for what is actually happening.

 

It is good to practice mindfulness. This helps keep things rooted in reality, which in turn helps keep things clean & precise & more productive for everyone including yourself.

 

 

 

I mean, fine, you didn't explicitly refer to the damage/gank potential of glass DH. I apologise. I guess my response was aimed more at this forum as a whole than at you specifically.

 

The vast majority of responses in this thread, the vast majority of responses in similar threads, and indeed the post you replied to, are about that build. It is the only DH build I see being regularly played. The vast majority of people reading your comment will see it through the lens of glass-DH and not through the lens of some mythical non-zerker LB-trapper-rune build. And the vast majority of posters make the same mistake of conflating core-bunker with glass-DH.

 

Because, frankly, who the hell is playing non-zerker trapper-rune? What would even be the point of such a build? You can't kill anyone, you can't hold a point, you can't assist your team. Is the aim to make the other team take pity on you and let you win out of sheer embarrassment?

Edited June 4, 2021 by Ragnar.4257

[Axl.8924]

11 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

I mean, fine, you didn't explicitly refer to the damage/gank potential of glass DH. I apologise. I guess my response was aimed more at this forum as a whole than at you specifically.

 

The vast majority of responses in this thread, the vast majority of responses in similar threads, are about that build. It is the only DH build I see being regularly played. The vast majority of people reading your comment will see it through the lens of glass-DH and not through the lens of some mythical non-zerker LB-trapper-rune build. And the vast majority of posters make the same mistake of conflating core-bunker with glass-DH.

 

Because, frankly, who the hell is playing non-zerker trapper-rune? What would even be the point of such a build? You can't kill anyone, you can't hold a point, you can't assist your team. Is the aim to make the other team take pity on you and let you win out of sheer embarrassment?

 

Its because of bias same as all the thief hate nec hate mes hate and now guardian with trapper rune hate.

 

People who play one class  might not care about balance, and just care about winning at all costs. Whats the best way to win? Chop off your enemies legs and preven them from being able to walk.

Then again someone pointed it out best and i don't remember who it was: Some people come in fight versus a class whine and don't start to think of the build it could be what it was using ability and what counters it already has. If it has multiple counters, then it has a weakness.

 

If guardians have multiple weaknesses and you don't exploit them and in fact play into the favorable things and die, thats on you.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, Axl.8924 said:

 

Its because of bias same as all the thief hate nec hate mes hate and now guardian with trapper rune hate.

 

People who play one class  might not care about balance, and just care about winning at all costs. Whats the best way to win? Chop off your enemies legs and preven them from being able to walk.

Then again someone pointed it out best and i don't remember who it was: Some people come in fight versus a class whine and don't start to think of the build it could be what it was using ability and what counters it already has. If it has multiple counters, then it has a weakness.

 

If guardians have multiple weaknesses and you don't exploit them and in fact play into the favorable things and die, thats on you.

 

I've been saying it for years now in this forum. People for whatever reason have a very difficult time distinguishing between what is actually OP and what they find obnoxious.

 

This is why I very specifically go out of my way in my responses to highlight if I am saying something is actually OP, or if I am saying that whatever it is doing is obnoxious and bad design that isn't fun in general.

 

For example, things that I find obnoxious right now that are not necessarily OP or UP at all:

 

1. Revive power across all characters in every game mode
2. Rune Of The Stealth God in general
3. The Dwarf Taunt on Rev
4. Every single build that Ckod plays
5. Thief blind spam
6. Ranger immob frequency
7. That unblockable no-tell ranged knockdown that Weavers have
8. Mesmers in general

But see, most people would neglect to recognize their complaints are from a place of annoyance & frustration with the game design, and they would be posting about how over powered all of this is.

 

I believe discussion & suggestions in this forum would probably be taken more seriously if people could understand this difference and give proper feedback.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Axl.8924]

42 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

I've been saying it for years now in this forum. People for whatever reason have a very difficult time distinguishing between what is actually OP and what they find obnoxious.

 

This is why I very specifically go out of my way in my responses to highlight if I am saying something is actually OP, or if I am saying that whatever it is doing is obnoxious and bad design that isn't fun in general.

 

For example, things that I find obnoxious right now that are not necessarily OP or UP at all:

 

1. Revive power across all characters in every game mode
2. Rune Of The Stealth God in general
3. The Dwarf Taunt on Rev
4. Every single build that Ckod plays
5. Thief blind spam
6. Ranger immob frequency
7. That unblockable no-tell ranged knockdown that Weavers have
8. Mesmers in general

But see, most people would neglect to recognize their complaints are from a place of annoyance & frustration with the game design, and they would be posting about how over powered all of this is.

 

I believe discussion & suggestions in this forum would probably be taken more seriously if people could understand this difference and give proper feedback.

 

You forgot a few extra lb2 is dodgeable from ranger 

 

Peeps even hate on reaper which even if its deadly in melee range and can pull you, has a weakness to cc and can be kited.

 

You can also kill a rangers pet to preven them from using it, and force the ranger to need to run and resurrect the pet.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

1. Every single build that Ckod plays

 

This is really funny. The legend of Ckod the Obnoxious.

 

3 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

I think you guys are overblowing this, let guardians be good.

 

No problem with this, but I'd like that "good" to not come largely from being able to remove 50/90% of your HP unannounced. I am fine with the 50/90% of hp part, but not the unannounced part. see below. 

 

8 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

The complaints here are about 10k+ ganks out of stealth. You only get that from playing berserker amulet and 9x damage traits.

 

Just in case this is referring to me, I have absolutely no problem with:

 

>10k+ ganks

 

and do have a problem with

 

>out of stealth

 

particularly when coupled with the baked in portions of DH's kit that allow it do that damage from far away, while having options that both punish approaches up close and projectile hate.

 

Given some things that have been brought to my attention in this thread, I do not want anything to be changed except true shot, and I only want it to reveal the guardian for a brief time so if I am looking in the general direction of where I last got tethered, I can dodge/block/reflect the arrow without vaguely guessing as to when I am about to die. No damage nerfs, no cooldown nerfs, just a reveal. The shot takes almost a whole second to charge so obviously it was intended for you to be able to dodge or otherwise respond to it.

 

11 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

Glass daredevil, I assume you're running crit and kitten? You should be able to out stealth the dh and burst him through block with basi and swipe. I would go full yolo if you're already running glass, so that means assassin Signet as well. You will win that trade. 

 

 Couple of things.

This matchup is winnable, but not in the way you suggested. See below.

 

>Swipe

 

Let's not pretend that stealing to a dragonhunter with 11khp will allow you to win a trade. Porting on top of a dragonhunter will get you killed in most cases. Almost all of their traps punish steal/swipe. There are ways around this, but they all involve methodical play, during which getting hit by any true shot is a win for the DH. 

 

I don't mind doing that. It's just annoying. I'd like it to be a hair easier in that I should be able to see the shot instead of guessing at it. 

 

11 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

Glass berserker, reroll. You won't win much of anything on that build, and that isn't a DH problem. 

 

It's weird how you have no issue with telling a weaker spec to reroll to beat Dragonhunter, but refuse to entertain the suggestion that a minor telegraph on True Shot would not only introduce some counterplay but preserve Trapper Runes. I'm out here trying to find the least invasive way to adjust Trapper DH into not being what you specifically call a "necessary evil" and your solution is "play something else"? 

 

A couple posts ago, you believed spear pulsed reveal on the DH itself, at least enough to consider it balanced because of that, did you not? So why not, instead of that, have true shot briefly reveal for its cast? That's significantly less inconvenient than what you thought was already the case. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Axl.8924]

18 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

This is really funny. The legend of Ckod the Obnoxious.

 

 

No problem with this, but I'd like that "good" to not come largely from being able to remove 50/90% of your HP unannounced. 

 

 

Just in case this is referring to me, I have absolutely no problem with:

 

>10k+ ganks

 

and do have a problem with

 

>out of stealth

 

particularly when coupled with the baked in portions of DH's kit that allow it do that damage from far away, while having options that both punish approaches up close and projectile hate.

 

Given some things that have been brought to my attention in this thread, I do not want __anything__ to be changed except true shot, and I only want it to reveal the guardian for a brief time so if I am looking in the general direction of where I last got tethered, I can dodge/block/reflect the arrow without vaguely guessing as to when I am about to die. No damage nerfs, no cooldown nerfs, just a reveal. The shot takes almost a whole second to charge so obviously it was intended for you to be able to dodge or otherwise respond to it.

 

 

 Couple of things.

This matchup is winnable, but not in the way you suggested. See below.

 

>Swipe

 

Let's not pretend that stealing to a dragonhunter with 11khp will allow you to win a trade. Porting on top of a dragonhunter will get you killed in most cases. Almost all of their traps punish steal/swipe. There are ways around this, but they all involve methodical play, during which getting hit by any true shot is a win for the DH. 

 

I don't mind doing that. It's just annoying. I'd like it to be a hair easier in that I should be able to see the shot instead of guessing at it. 

 

 

It's weird how you have no issue with telling a weaker spec to reroll to beat Dragonhunter, but refuse to entertain the suggestion that a minor telegraph on True Shot would not only introduce some counterplay but preserve Trapper Runes. I'm out here trying to find the least invasive way to adjust Trapper DH into not being a "necessary evil" and your solution is "play something else"? 

 

Has that ever worked? 

 

 

 

 

What about the issue that guardians have where putting down traps when visible makes it impossible to fall into?
 

If trapper rune gets deleted then you will need to do something so dragonhunter can be viable.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

16 minutes ago, Axl.8924 said:

What about the issue that guardians have where putting down traps when visible makes it impossible to fall into?
 

If trapper rune gets deleted then you will need to do something so dragonhunter can be viable.

 

I am literally saying -not- to delete trapper runes and instead to apply a minor reveal to true shot.

 

I don't know what to tell you. I understand Trapper Runes are holding Dragonhunter together and am trying to respect that (even though, apparently, the Dragonhunter players who will need a buff to remain viable if Trapper Runes get removed are telling me to reroll from Berserker because it is currently unbuffed/unviable without realizing how spectacularly that can backfire.). They are important to check specs like bunker necro. I'd like the majority of that playstyle to remain. 

 

> What about the issue that guardians have where putting down traps when visible makes it impossible to fall into?

 

The traps are always visible when placed. There is a noise and visual indication whenever they place one. Their stealth does not hide the location of their traps.

It is also not impossible to fall into them just because you know where they are. They have at the very least one pull. 

 

None of that is relevant though. I have no issue with traps. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[DanSH.6143]

4 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

This is really funny. The legend of Ckod the Obnoxious.

 

 

No problem with this, but I'd like that "good" to not come largely from being able to remove 50/90% of your HP unannounced. I am fine with the 50/90% of hp part, but not the unannounced part. see below. 

 

 

Just in case this is referring to me, I have absolutely no problem with:

 

>10k+ ganks

 

and do have a problem with

 

>out of stealth

 

particularly when coupled with the baked in portions of DH's kit that allow it do that damage from far away, while having options that both punish approaches up close and projectile hate.

 

Given some things that have been brought to my attention in this thread, I do not want anything to be changed except true shot, and I only want it to reveal the guardian for a brief time so if I am looking in the general direction of where I last got tethered, I can dodge/block/reflect the arrow without vaguely guessing as to when I am about to die. No damage nerfs, no cooldown nerfs, just a reveal. The shot takes almost a whole second to charge so obviously it was intended for you to be able to dodge or otherwise respond to it.

 

 

 Couple of things.

This matchup is winnable, but not in the way you suggested. See below.

 

>Swipe

 

Let's not pretend that stealing to a dragonhunter with 11khp will allow you to win a trade. Porting on top of a dragonhunter will get you killed in most cases. Almost all of their traps punish steal/swipe. There are ways around this, but they all involve methodical play, during which getting hit by any true shot is a win for the DH. 

 

I don't mind doing that. It's just annoying. I'd like it to be a hair easier in that I should be able to see the shot instead of guessing at it. 

 

 

It's weird how you have no issue with telling a weaker spec to reroll to beat Dragonhunter, but refuse to entertain the suggestion that a minor telegraph on True Shot would not only introduce some counterplay but preserve Trapper Runes. I'm out here trying to find the least invasive way to adjust Trapper DH into not being what you specifically call a "necessary evil" and your solution is "play something else"? 

 

A couple posts ago, you believed spear pulsed reveal on the DH itself, at least enough to consider it balanced because of that, did you not? So why not, instead of that, have true shot briefly reveal for its cast? That's significantly less inconvenient than what you thought was already the case. 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't get hit with a 10k True Shot unannounced, you have to be tethered by Spear of Justice first. It's extremely visible.

That being said, Deadeye, Mesmer and Ranger can deal the same amount of dmg if not more, from range and stealth (with similair level of tells). Out of these, DH is the least mobile and has the least amount of survivability.

 

If you play DH on plat you realy feel that 11k hp. You're basicaly a walking egg and everytime someone breathes at your direction you lose a third of your health.

Edited June 4, 2021 by DanSH.6143

[Hogwarts Zebra.8597]

22 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

I'm not built properly but I threw together a build that's probably close to meta. Perhaps I'm missing something.

 

Connecting spear isn't difficult because it doesn't pulse reveal on the DH. 

 

Convince me, though. Explain where the tell is. Keep in mind that tether is also invisible when you are stealthed, and true shot is invisible until it hits you. 

 

Gif 1

Gif 2

Gif 3

the tell is getting hit by spear. it has a distinct animation and if ur paying attention you will not get hit by it unless the DH casts it from stealth, in which case they get revealed instantly. 

 

Since in a realistic scenario the target is no longer tethered, that 9k hit you see there is now a 7k hit. 

 

Now let's swap off that meme zerker amulet and take marauder, which is the only viable choice when ur matched against non-silver players. 

 

Result: 5.3k true shot with resolution up plus the 20% dmg modifier for having aegis up, which will not be happening for at least 2/3 of the true shots u cast. So really most of your true shots will be hitting for 4.4k on a glass build, with maybe 1/4 of them hitting for up to 9k against pepega targets

 

Now let's say the target failed to predict the true shot with LoS/reflects/blocks, so they are now at 75% health. You proceed to do 0 damage for the next 8 seconds while the target freecasts on you, forcing you to either disengage (only barely possible thanks to trapper runes) or die on node. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Hogwarts Zebra.8597

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

the tell is getting hit by spear. it has a distinct animation and if ur paying attention you will not get hit by it unless the DH casts it from stealth, in which case they get revealed instantly. 

 

Since in a realistic scenario the target is no longer tethered, that 9k hit you see there is now a 7k hit. 

 

Now let's swap off that meme zerker amulet and take marauder, which is the only viable choice when ur matched against non-silver players."

 

Result: 5.3k true shot with resolution up plus the 20% dmg modifier for having aegis up, which will not be happening for at least 2/3 of the true shots u cast. So really most of your true shots will be hitting for 4.4k on a glass build, with maybe 1/4 of them hitting for up to 9k against pepega targets

 

Now let's say the target failed to predict the true shot with LoS/reflects/blocks, so they are now at 75% health. You proceed to do 0 damage for the next 8 seconds while the target freecasts on you, forcing you to either disengage (only barely possible thanks to trapper runes) or die on node. 

 

You're doing a lot of minimization and yet-

 

I don't know why you keep focusing on the damage. I have stated multiple times that I have no issue with it even doing 10k+, but specifically think it needs to be telegraphed so it can be responded to. Even the developers think this, otherwise they wouldn't have given it a cast time and glaring animation. I dont mind getting hit for 100% of my HP on glass, if the thing that was going to hit me was visible or audible at least a quarter second before it hit me. 

 

 Lets not pretend it ain't viable for plat though.

 

2 hours ago, DanSH.6143 said:

If you play DH on plat you realy feel that 11k hp. You're basicaly a walking egg and everytime someone breathes at your direction you lose a third of your health.

 

How about losing all of it instead?

 

 

2 hours ago, DanSH.6143 said:

You don't get hit with a 10k True Shot unannounced, you have to be tethered by Spear of Justice

 

I addressed this above. My opinion hasn't changed.

 

2 hours ago, DanSH.6143 said:

That being said, Deadeye, Mesmer and Ranger can deal the same amount of dmg if not more, from range and stealth (with similair level of tells). 

 

Oneshot Mesmer has visibility on mirror blade. Deadeye reveals itself before burst. Ranger has to interrupt you with point blank shot to keep you in place for rapid fire, both of which are visible and allow time to respond. 

 

 

2 hours ago, DanSH.6143 said:

Out of these, DH is the least mobile and has the least amount of survivability.

 

This doesnt justify True Shot from stealth.. It's also debatable, given the superspeed from trapper runes. But I'm not here to argue that. Maybe Trevor is. 

 

It's whatever. I'm not gonna tantrum about it. It's just amazing how its being defended.  

 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[DanSH.6143]

23 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

You're doing a lot of minimization and yet-

 

 

 

How about losing all of it instead?

 

 

 

I addressed this above. My opinion hasn't changed.

 

 

Oneshot Mesmer has visibility on mirror blade. Deadeye reveals itself before burst. Ranger has to interrupt you with point blank shot to keep you in place for rapid fire, both of which are visible and allow time to respond. 

 

 

 

This doesnt justify True Shot from stealth.. It's also debatable, given the superspeed from trapper runes. But I'm not here to argue that. Maybe Trevor is. 

 

It's whatever. I'm not gonna tantrum about it. It's just amazing how its being defended.  

 

 

If you're hit by a True Shot from stealth, untethered, you're not going to get hit by much.

Again, other classes have incredible bursts from stealth thay have very little tells if any, like Rapid Fire combo, Nades from stealth, Deadeye, mesmer, chrono can CC you from stealth and then burst. They can all do it and have better sustain.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

9 minutes ago, DanSH.6143 said:

If you're hit by a True Shot from stealth, untethered, you're not going to get hit by much.

 

You can stealth after the tether.  I mentioned why tethering isn't an indication of the burst above.  Tethering is just a vague indication that you might get burst in the next 10 seconds, with no further indication as to where or when. 

 

9 minutes ago, DanSH.6143 said:

If you're hit by a True Shot from stealth, untethered, you're not going to get hit by much.

Again, other classes have incredible bursts from stealth thay have very little tells if any, like Rapid Fire combo, Nades from stealth, Deadeye, mesmer, chrono can CC you from stealth and then burst. They can all do it and have better sustain.

 

If you get cced you can respond to the cc and dodge immediately after. The CC itself becomes the telegraph. Deadeye also cannot CC you from stealth anymore. They adjusted binding shadow so it reveals you when it is cast now, so no more binding shadow into DJ. All of those options you listed have more time to react than True Shot, which gives you no time to react from stealth as it's currently built. Either you guess you are going to get hit by it and evade preemptively and are right, or you do not for a myriad of different reasons/guess wrong and lose all your hp. 

 

I will reiterate that losing all my hp for eating true shot is absolutely fine, as long as I can see it.

 

 

We're going to have to agree to disagree. Just hope you understand where the mild aggravation is stemming from. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261