It's been over 5 years. Can we remove Enrage Timers already?

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

7 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The claim was literally "raids wouldn't be possible without power creep". It was never under the question if it was supposed to be done by 10 worst players on the server, 10 best players on the server or 10 average, randomly picked players from starting zones. Again, the claim said "raids wouldn't be possible without power creep". Understand what you read before you try to argue something. Going with a more extreme example for the sake of helping you understand: if ONE person in the world can do something, that something is automatically deemed possible. Nobody cares about you trying to move to goalpost, you're wrong.

 

It's been over 5 years. Can we remove Enrage Timers already?

that is the threads topic. any argument made with people playing raids since launch does not matter cause this thread is made by an average player. there are better and more constructive ways to say not to enrage timer removal then showing people who are "gods" in raiding

[Ayrilana.1396]

1 minute ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

says the people constantly ignoring that his argument can only work when it was done by average player. talk about projection. any argument for or against anything regarding raids based merely on the performance off people who are clearly not the average player is void. the argument is about removing or not removing the enrage timer for the average player. and as it so will the average player in GW2 is quiet low in skill. so taking people who have been raiding since the mode was released in the game can NOT be used as an argument FOR AVERAGE players.

same goes for this.

 

I have a question for you:

 

What is your experience with raids in this game?

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

says the people constantly ignoring that his argument can only work when it was done by average player. talk about projection. any argument for or against anything regarding raids based merely on the performance off people who are clearly not the average player is void. the argument is about removing or not removing the enrage timer for the average player. and as it so will the average player in GW2 is quiet low in skill. so taking people who have been raiding since the mode was released in the game can NOT be used as an argument FOR AVERAGE players.

Where did I ignore anything? I quoted the claim for you multiple times already. Make sure to read it this time, because I guess you still didn't? Or are you really just settled so deep in your denial that you refuse to accept what the actual claim was for the sake of not admitting you're wrong? 

 

Lets go with direct example based on reality: humans can potentially run with a speed of 44.72 km/h. We know that, because that's how fast Usain Bolt ran. If you say "humans can't possibly run 44 km/h", it's objectively false and you're wrong. In this case it would be you trying to argue that "humans can't run this fast, because it was only Usain Bolt who did it!". And yet, you'd still be wrong, just like you are now. Get over yourself, because this is getting sad.

 

The claim in this thread was that "raiding is only possible due to power creep and wouldn't be possibly on base classes". This is false and we know that because it was done on base classes while underleveled and undergeared. That claim was wrong. And so you're wrong. Clearly.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

3 minutes ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

As I said before, their experience is separate from what can and cannot be done in raids as far as builds and comps go. Raids are cleared with a lot of time left on the timer which leaves plenty of room are less efficient builds. Unless players are playing more defensive builds and hitting against the enrage timer as a result, you cannot make the argument that remove enrage timers will have any effect. 
 

He memes a lot for entertainment of his viewers.
 

Anyone with experience in raids know that scourge isn’t going to let you bypass many raid mechanics. 

it literally is the basis on how they approach things. this video is merely a snippet from a 8 hr stream two of them were they literally planned and organized ANY THING for 1-2 hours before they even started. planning and approach only possible through experience.

and him memeing does not change the fact he is serious about scourge. he has been asked about it numerous times during streams and he does state even while not joking around that scourge does make it possible to ignore mechanics even before the last big balance update.

[Ayrilana.1396]

1 minute ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

it literally is the basis on how they approach things. this video is merely a snippet from a 8 hr stream two of them were they literally planned and organized ANY THING for 1-2 hours before they even started. planning and approach only possible through experience.

and him memeing does not change the fact he is serious about scourge. he has been asked about it numerous times during streams and he does state even while not joking around that scourge does make it possible to ignore mechanics even before the last big balance update.

The thing that you’re still missing is the amount of mechanics which can be ignored. 

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Where did I ignore anything? Can you read? I quoted the claim for you multiple times already. Make sure to read it this time, because I guess you still didn't? Or are you really just settled so deep in your denial that you refuse to accept what the actual claim was for the sake of not admitting you're wrong? 

 

Lets go with direct example based on reality: humans can potentially run with a speed of 44.72 km/h. We know that, because that's how fast Usain Bolt ran. If you say "humans can't possibly run 44 km/h", it's objectively false and you're wrong. In this case it would be you trying to argue that "humans can't run this fast, because it was only Usain Bolt who did it!". And yet, you'd still be wrong, just like you are now. Get over yourself, because this is getting sad.

 

 

i can, you apparently not cause i just told you. also this thread is about removing enrage timer or not. again. if you were able to read you would see it right above ALL the post made in here. and once again using your example:

just because usain bolt can run at 44km/h does not mean you should expect it from others, mostly NON athlets, even if it is possible.

[Sobx.1758]

9 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

It's been over 5 years. Can we remove Enrage Timers already?

that is the threads topic. any argument made with people playing raids since launch does not matter cause this thread is made by an average player. there are better and more constructive ways to say not to enrage timer removal then showing people who are "gods" in raiding

CHECK THE QUOTED CLAIM THAT THE LINKED VIDEO WAS RESPONDING TO.

And stop being in denial, it's getting sad.

 

If we're SUDDENLY talking about the whole thread (and not the video+the QUOTE IT WAS RESPONDING TO) then it's all irrelevant, because average players don't play on core classes with underleveled and undergeared characters. It seems you just missed the context in which that video was linked in this thread (or made a choice to ignore it for the sake of not admitting you're wrong). That video was CLEARLY responding to a false claim made by someone, not an overal response to the whole thread.

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

2 minutes ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

The thing that you’re still missing is the amount of mechanics which can be ignored. 

they know about because of experience.,

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

CHECK THE QUOTED CLAIM THAT THE LINKED VIDEO WAS RESPONDING TO.

And stop being in denial, it's getting sad.

 

 

you should work in a cinema, they need better projectors.

where is said quoted claim? ah in a thread arguing about the removal of enrage timers. hmmm 

[Ayrilana.1396]

1 minute ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

they know about because of experience.,

That in no way has anything to do with what I said. You cannot just use “because of experience” to refute everything. 

[Sobx.1758]

7 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

i can, you apparently not cause i just told you. also this thread is about removing enrage timer or not. again. if you were able to read you would see it right above ALL the post made in here. and once again using your example:

just because usain bolt can run at 44km/h does not mean you should expect it from others, mostly NON athlets, even if it is possible.

If you can read, then make sure to re-read this post 10 times until it hits home (CLICK on it and read the original):

 

Make sure to read what it quotes and have fun with your later mental gymnastics while still pretending it wasn't a completely relevant response to the quoted claim, proving that claim to be objectively false. 🙃

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

2 minutes ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

That in no way has anything to do with what I said. You cannot just use “because of experience” to refute everything. 

but it does in this case cause the preparation, the skipping of mechanics, the entire thing is only possible because these 10 guys knew what they were doing, cause they did it so many times before.

[Ayrilana.1396]

1 minute ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

but it does in this case cause the preparation, the skipping of mechanics, the entire thing is only possible because these 10 guys knew what they were doing, cause they did it so many times before.

I had asked this several posts ago but it may have been missed. 
 

What is your experience with raids in this game?

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If you can read, then make sure to re-read this post 10 times until it hits home (CLICK on it and read the original):

 

Make sure to read what it quotes and have fun with your later mental gymnastics while still pretending it wasn't a completely relevant response to the quoted claim, proving that claim to be objectively false. 🙃

 

may i present

On 6/23/2021 at 6:07 PM, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

oh nice non argument, taking 10 people who have been raiding for years, are coordinated and trained in the raids, KNOW the raids because of those years managed this WOW. whats next? gonna use a 30 years master in black smithing showing how possible it is for the most inefficient way to smith a blade and expect everyone else to do it?

and subsequent follow ups you didn't read in which i told several times WHY that argument does not work and how it could work but thats something you seem to conveniently ignore all the time

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

may i present

and subsequent follow ups you didn't read in which i told several times WHY that argument does not work and how it could work but thats something you seem to conveniently ignore all the time

Here's the claim that link was responding to (agaaain and agaaaaain):

 

Raids wouldn't even be possible without all the powercreep to begin with. If ten players from 2014 Core game stepped foot in a raid, they'd die in a heartbeat, and no amount of skill would be able to overcome the lack of tools neccessary to complete the job.

 

You said that link is a non-argument. It is false. It shows the quoted claim to be wrong. You're wrong. And now your claim about your ability to read also seems to be a stretch, because this is at least 4th time that I've quoted/linked to that quote. The claim literally says "no amount of skill would be able to overcome..." -then you say that the link is a non-argument, because those players are skilled.  I mean... 🤪

Edited June 24, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

1 minute ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

I had asked this several posts ago but it may have been missed. 
 

What is your experience with raids in this game?

does a sport commentator have to have played in the major leagues himself in order to know what they are talking about? no they don't, they can be informed regardless. and taking people who are very very very good and experienced and expect people who are NOT that to be just as capable is Just insane and it doesn't require to be well informed to call that out.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Here's the claim that link was responding to (agaaain and agaaaaain):

 

Raids wouldn't even be possible without all the powercreep to begin with. If ten players from 2014 Core game stepped foot in a raid, they'd die in a heartbeat, and no amount of skill would be able to overcome the lack of tools neccessary to complete the job.

 

You said that link is a non-argument. It is false. It shows the quoted claim to be wrong. You're wrong. And now your claim about your ability to read also seems to be a stretch, because this is at least 4th time that I've quoted/linked to that quote. The claim literally says "no amount of skill would be able to overcome..." -then you say that the link is a non-argument, because those players are skilled.  I mean... 🤪

and it still stand what i said: taking a video with 10 people, who do speed run tournaments of raids, from 2021 does not refute what he said as it take the highest possible skilled players and not the average pug player as a measurement. not to mention that it IS a video made AFTER the claimed years long power creep that made raids "possible in the first place".
to disprove that claim it had to be raid video done by the average pug done in 2014.

how is that so hard to understand?

[Ayrilana.1396]

3 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

does a sport commentator have to have played in the major leagues himself in order to know what they are talking about? no they don't, they can be informed regardless. and taking people who are very very very good and experienced and expect people who are NOT that to be just as capable is Just insane and it doesn't require to be well informed to call that out.

So I take it that you don’t have any?

 

I was asking because commenting about what can and cannot be done in raids without any experience is like me saying what it is and isn’t like to live in New York City without having lived there. 

[Sobx.1758]

 

7 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

does a sport commentator have to have played in the major leagues himself in order to know what they are talking about? no they don't, they can be informed regardless. and taking people who are very very very good and experienced and expect people who are NOT that to be just as capable is Just insane and it doesn't require to be well informed to call that out.

See, the issue with that comparison is that commentators taking part in sport event would need to compete against the best of the best. Raiding is a co-op mode and you don't need anywhere near the top performance to easly succeed. Now if you said "average players can't compete with speed runners for the fastest clear", then sure, that is correct. But it's also completely irrelevant and unneeded to participate and succeed in raids, so for now you have nothing relevant to say about this thread.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

and it still stand what i said: taking a video with 10 people, who do speed run tournaments of raids, from 2021 does not refute what he said as it take the highest possible skilled players and not the average pug player as a measurement. not to mention that it IS a video made AFTER the claimed years long power creep that made raids "possible in the first place".
to disprove that claim it had to be raid video done by the average pug done in 2014.

how is that so hard to understand?

Strong denial, keep re-reading until it clicks (ok, I'll make it shorter, maybe you're just getting lost in longer sentences? I seriously don't know at this point):

 

The claim literally says "no amount of skill would be able to overcome..." -then you say that the link is a non-argument, because those players are skilled.  I mean... 🤪

 

Nothing in this claim says anything about average pug. In turn it literally says "no amount of skill would be able to overcome..."

You understand what "no amount of skill would be able to overcome.." means, right? Let's make sure: what do you think this part means?

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

2 minutes ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:

So I take it that you don’t have any?

 

I was asking because commenting about what can and cannot be done in raids without any experience is like me saying what it is and isn’t like to live in New York City without having lived there. 

false. i could know how it is to live in NYC if i'd inform myself by someone or more people who DID live there. i do NOT have to been there. i literally just told you that. are you willfully dismissing it just to make look like you had a point? no you do not have one

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Strong denial, keep re-reading until it clicks (ok, I'll make it shorter, maybe you're just getting lost in longer sentences? I seriously don't know at this point):

 

The claim literally says "no amount of skill would be able to overcome..." -then you say that the link is a non-argument, because those players are skilled.  I mean... 🤪

 

 

keep on NOT reading what i wrote. quiet literally the semi last sentence from my last response to you is all i need now to fling at you repeatedly. 
"to disprove that claim it had to be raid video done by the average pug done in 2014."

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

keep on NOT reading what i wrote. quiet literally the semi last sentence from my last response to you is all i need now to fling at you repeatedly. 
"to disprove that claim it had to be raid video done by the average pug done in 2014."

What exactly was the power creep to those base classes between 2014 and now? The main power creep came with especs. And since they go "out of the window" on builds with level 78, it's irrelevant. And seeing how balance changes are more often NERFS than anything else... Let's go, where's that power creep comming from in that video? Even moreso for undergeared levels 78? 🙃 

 

 

Btw you've missed something from the previous post (probably edited it in a bit too late):

Nothing in this claim says anything about average pug. In turn it literally says "no amount of skill would be able to overcome..."

You understand what "no amount of skill would be able to overcome.." means, right? Let's make sure: what do you think this part means?

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

11 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What exactly was the power creep to those base classes between 2014 and now? The main power creep came with especs. And since they go "out of the window" on builds with level 78, it's irrelevant. Let's go, where's that power creep comming from in that video? Even moreso at undergeared levels 78? 🙃 

 

 

Btw you've missed something from the previous post (probably edited it in a bit too late):

Nothing in this claim says anything about average pug. In turn it literally says "no amount of skill would be able to overcome..."

You understand what "no amount of skill would be able to overcome.." means, right? Let's make sure: what do you think this part means?

(and the other post you made)

"to disprove that claim it had to be raid video done by the average pug done in 2014."

i indulge now in WHY this would be the correct response to the claim "raids impossible without power creep and no skill can over come it."

because its a video from 2021 after the supposed power creep that "made raids possible " the person who made that statement can very easily claim NOW that the power creep "made it possible in the first place" for these guys to do the raid low leveled and under geared, that "the power creep is even worse" than he first stated.
To make the point indisputable and uncontestable that his claim is false the video should have been a pug doing a raid in 2014 and be successful. 

as at that point in time the "power creep that made raids possible" was not there according to that persons claim.

Edited June 24, 2021 by ShroomOneUp.6913

[Sobx.1758]

17 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

(and the other post you made)

"to disprove that claim it had to be raid video done by the average pug done in 2014."

i indulge now in WHY this would be the correct response to the claim "raids impossible without power creep and no skill can over come it."

because its a video from 2021 after the supposed power creep that "made raids possible " the person who made the claim can very easily claim NOW that the power creep "made it possible in the first place" for these guys could do the raid low leveled and under geared, that "the power creep is even worse" than he first stated.
To make the point indisputable and uncontestable that his claim is false the video should have been a pug doing a raid in 2014 and be successful. 

Wait, you're pretending you're "indulging" in anything here?

 

You literally dodged the main part of the post:

What exactly was the power creep to those base classes between 2014 and now? The main power creep came with especs. And since they go "out of the window" on builds with level 78, it's irrelevant. And seeing how balance changes are more often NERFS than anything else... Let's go, where's that power creep comming from in that video? Even moreso for undergeared levels 78? 🙃 

 

...and you did it specifically so you can easier dodge the second part of it, let's not pretend it was anything else LOL (because the question wasn't "what's the difference between the numbers "2014" and "2021"?", the question was "outside of especs, that aren't included in that video... WHAT POWER CREEP EXACTLY?" )

 

🤔

Edited June 24, 2021 by Sobx.1758