It's been over 5 years. Can we remove Enrage Timers already?

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

yes it is. why do you think the "power creep" argument was made? it an additional point made to remove the enrage timer. cause to that person raids  are only possible through the power creep, the enrage timer is to the Op and the person who made the power creep argument a hurdle that would be even worse without the "power creep" .

That's great, except not only it's obviously false that "the power creep made it possible", but also it's completely irrelevant to anything anyways, because the raids were and still are balanced below anything near the optimal playstyles and builds.

Literally IF it was correct that "power creep made it possible" (it's not) then it would still be irrelevant, because the raids weren't even around then. So not only it's just a lie, but if it wasn't a lie, it would still not be a valid point. If there were no increase in power, there's absolutely no reason to believe raids wouldn't be slightly toned down accordingly to the "past power levels and their potential" to retain similar/same dificulty level -WHATEVER IT SUBJECTIVELY IS for any individual player.

 

Basically you're latching onto the false claim that wouldn't be an argument even if it wasn't false. Why? I have a guess, but maybe it's better for you to tell me instead.

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

show them an average pug finishing a raid in 2015 and the claim of the power creep is debunked objectively.

LOL you're still here with your denial, eh?

Maybe remind yourself he wrote it wasn't possible regardless of the skill level of the player and stop constantly trying to push that "take average pug" because you know otherwise you've ALREADY been proven wrong. Hilarious that after getting called out on this over and over again, you're still trying to push this version of your own reality.

 

Imprint these words into your shmart brain, so you can finally get out of your self-made loop of lies:

and no amount of skill would be able to overcome

and no amount of skill would be able to overcome

and no amount of skill would be able to overcome

 

You're wrong and "average pug" has nothing to do with the claim that was made there, get over yourself.

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Krzysztof.5973]

10 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

since there were no raids in gw2 before the 2015 we can not really use that time period to talk about raid difficulties/enrage timers/power creep. but it should be REALLY simple to understand regardless

they claim between 2015 and 2021 the was a power creep that "made raids possible"(meaning that they could be even considered possible to be finished). show them an average pug finishing a raid in 2015 and the claim of the power creep is debunked objectively. only show them a video from 2021 AFTER the period of alleged power creep and at best you have proven nothing. at worst you just confirmed their believes because they couldn't do it back then and now. When after the 2015 raid clip they still believe in raids being ONLY possible through the power creep then its squarely on their own willful ignorance, similar to flat earthers.

If you were actually there on raid release you'd known that failing to kill VG was not caused by enrage timer. People struggled to do mechanics properly like not be teleported by blues or to consistently make it to greens. Getting better at the game made raids easily clearable not the power creep. Also pugs were not that popular back in 2015 since there was no lfg for 10man to begin with 🙂

Edited July 1, 2021 by Krzysztof.5973

[yann.1946]

23 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

yes it is. why do you think the "power creep" argument was made? it an additional point made to remove the enrage timer. cause to that person raids  are only possible through the power creep, the enrage timer is to the Op and the person who made the power creep argument a hurdle that would be even worse without the "power creep" .

and that's because THEY are the average gw2 player.

 

It seems you are a system thinker, which in this case is working against you. See even if that all is true, that does NOT matter for the claim that was being made. 

Lets try to give another example to show why.

 

Imagine someone saying murder is bad, we should make keep it illegal.

And then someone else adds, yes  murder is bad because it is the only way people can oppress other people.

 

Responding to the second person with that his claim is false is not suddenly advocating for murder, and your response does not need to take the first persons statement into account  

 

 

 

 

23 hours ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

anet itself during a guild chat confirmed that even the simple concept of a decent damage build is to roughly around 85% of total players foreign as they do ten times less then a standard exotic berserker geared and mediocre build. so they see at best a 1.2k crit and think this is good. and lets not talk about knowing they can dodge. or jump over dmg waves. I do not want to know how many still run around in soliders or mismatched gear for the type of dmg they are doing. its this ridiculous amount of low skilled players that the statistically average player is also ranked much lower.
 

So YES it IS a moot point to show those players, who CLEARY struggle, other players who technically could be considered the "1%" of the skill department how they clear a raid in exotic 74 gear. it is close (but not entirely the same) to tell the the homeless or even lower class wage slaves in the US to "just buy a house, bill gates could buy 3"
Like i said not the best 1:1 analogy but the result is the same:
It doesn't help them in the slightest
in fact it can, very much so, cause the opposite, that they even more so believe that the power creep has bigger role in making raids possible and thus wanting them to remove the enrage timers even MORE SO. 

but apparently that what people in this thread do not seem to understand. 

 

It is not equivalent at all because nobody in this tread used that video as some sort of proof that everyone should be able to do it. 

 

The house buying thing will actually create a better analogy.

 

It is someone claiming we need to decomodify houses.

 

A person responds by saying, yes because the only people who have a house atm are those who bought them before the 90's. Not even the rich can buy a house nowadays.

 

 

Now the third person responds by saying that the second person lied. Because obviously the richest people can still by house. 

This third statement itself says nothing about where they stand on the first claim, it is merely fixing misinformation.

 

 

 

TLDR: Your whole problem atm is that you see the claim systematically as part of the "bigger picture". But in doing so you have missed the fact that that singular claim was not related to the "bigger picture", and now you are arguing against arguments nobody made.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

On 6/23/2021 at 12:07 PM, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

oh nice non argument, taking 10 people who have been raiding for years, are coordinated and trained in the raids, KNOW the raids because of those years managed this WOW. whats next? gonna use a 30 years master in black smithing showing how possible it is for the most inefficient way to smith a blade and expect everyone else to do it?

So what you're saying is they got good and now do good. I guess others should also gitgud lol

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

On 6/30/2021 at 7:34 PM, Linken.6345 said:

If there was a powercreep wouldent they do more damage too and be able to clear it?

exactly but you do not deal with rational thinking people but with lazy ones

Edited July 7, 2021 by ShroomOneUp.6913

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

 

On 6/30/2021 at 10:18 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

LOL you're still here with your denial, eh?

Maybe remind yourself he wrote it wasn't possible regardless of the skill level of the player and stop constantly trying to push that "take average pug" because you know otherwise you've ALREADY been proven wrong. Hilarious that after getting called out on this over and over again, you're still trying to push this version of your own reality.

 

Imprint these words into your shmart brain, so you can finally get out of your self-made loop of lies:

and no amount of skill would be able to overcome

and no amount of skill would be able to overcome

and no amount of skill would be able to overcome

 

You're wrong and "average pug" has nothing to do with the claim that was made there, get over yourself.

 

thank you for contradicting yourself in your attempt to disagree with me.

by them saying "no amount of skill would be able to overcome", an average pug would disprove them HARD. how is that such a hard concept to understand to you?

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

On 6/30/2021 at 10:09 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

That's great, except not only it's obviously false that "the power creep made it possible", but also it's completely irrelevant to anything anyways, because the raids were and still are balanced below anything near the optimal playstyles and builds.

Literally IF it was correct that "power creep made it possible" (it's not) then it would still be irrelevant, because the raids weren't even around then. So not only it's just a lie, but if it wasn't a lie, it would still not be a valid point. If there were no increase in power, there's absolutely no reason to believe raids wouldn't be slightly toned down accordingly to the "past power levels and their potential" to retain similar/same dificulty level -WHATEVER IT SUBJECTIVELY IS for any individual player.

 

Basically you're latching onto the false claim that wouldn't be an argument even if it wasn't false. Why? I have a guess, but maybe it's better for you to tell me instead.

 

I never said it was true. i merely argue that to these people that post i responded to does proof nothing to them. I know their claim is wrong, i know they ARE wrong. they do not know tho. and a raid clip from 2021 will not  convince them otherwise

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

On 7/1/2021 at 12:55 AM, Krzysztof.5973 said:

If you were actually there on raid release you'd known that failing to kill VG was not caused by enrage timer. People struggled to do mechanics properly like not be teleported by blues or to consistently make it to greens. Getting better at the game made raids easily clearable not the power creep. Also pugs were not that popular back in 2015 since there was no lfg for 10man to begin with 🙂

I love it how people never actually read and only skip over my posts as I never claimed it was impossible, quiet the opposite. and that i state that to those who do think wrongly about raids being impossible a raid clip from after their alleged powercreep that made raids possible will not be able to convince them from the get go

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

On 7/1/2021 at 5:22 PM, yann.1946 said:

It seems you are a system thinker, which in this case is working against you. See even if that all is true, that does NOT matter for the claim that was being made. 

Lets try to give another example to show why.

 

Imagine someone saying murder is bad, we should make keep it illegal.

And then someone else adds, yes  murder is bad because it is the only way people can oppress other people.

 

Responding to the second person with that his claim is false is not suddenly advocating for murder, and your response does not need to take the first persons statement into account  

i made bad analogies in my live but this one takes the cake. your example is about morality and not a task/activity being possible for someone at a certain time period. not to mention that is more about a "system" then people just stating something false and other trying to disprove them with thing after the false claims time period
 

 

On 7/1/2021 at 5:22 PM, yann.1946 said:

It is not equivalent at all because nobody in this tread used that video as some sort of proof that everyone should be able to do it. 

 

but it is, as it was in response to the false claim that "only power creep made raids possible and that no amount of skill can over come them"

 

On 7/1/2021 at 5:22 PM, yann.1946 said:

TLDR: Your whole problem atm is that you see the claim systematically as part of the "bigger picture". But in doing so you have missed the fact that that singular claim was not related to the "bigger picture", and now you are arguing against arguments nobody made.

the only person looking at it as a "big system" right now is you. i handle it as a situation of people with a false claim, people with inappropriate "proof" and me saying "get better more appropriate proof" to debunk the false claims.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

On 7/1/2021 at 9:03 PM, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

So what you're saying is they got good and now do good. I guess others should also gitgud lol

that too. those who do claim "raids are impossible" need to gitgut.

[Sobx.1758]

16 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

 

thank you for contradicting yourself in your attempt to disagree with me.

by them saying "no amount of skill would be able to overcome", an average pug would disprove them HARD. how is that such a hard concept to understand to you?

Ah, so that's the problem. You just don't understand what the words you read mean LOL 🙃 

 

I'm not really surprised about that fact seeing your posts in this thread, but this is just a definite proof that you literally don't understand what "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" means. Nothing I said there made me "contradict myself". Learn what that phrase mean, buddy and then facepalm at your posts on last few pages, oof.

Do you need me to explain what it means, buddy? Or better yet -just tell me what you think that phrase means 🙄

Edited July 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Ah, so that's the problem. You just don't understand what the words you read mean LOL 🙃 

 

I'm not really surprised about that fact seeing your posts in this thread, but this is just a definite proof that you literally don't understand what "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" means. Nothing I said there made me "contradict myself". Learn what that phrase mean, buddy and then facepalm at your posts on last few pages, oof.

but it does. i say you need to show the people who do say "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" that a minimal amount of skill during that time they claim it was impossible was enough to clear a raid. which you do with a raid clip from 2015 with an average pug.

and you constantly disagree, try to be contrary for some reason. 

in short the only one who does not seem to understand words one reads is you.

[Sobx.1758]

10 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

but it does. i say you need to show the people who do say "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" that a minimal amount of skill during that time they claim it was impossible was enough to clear a raid. which you do with a raid clip from 2015 with an average pug.

and you constantly disagree, try to be contrary for some reason. 

in short the only one who does not seem to understand words one reads is you.

Nobody said anything about "minimal skill".

Again, what do you think "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" means? Because you clearly don't understand what you're responding to for the last few pages LOL

 

(and it wasn't even me that linked the video, you're just so blatantly wrong that I couldn't resist joining 😞 )

Edited July 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nobody said anything about "minimal skill".

 

Again, what do you think "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" means? Because you clearly don't understand what you're responding to for the last few pages LOL

peepos bad at something: its impossible to lift this tiny rock
peepos to bad at arguing: *get the heavy weight lifting world champion to lift it*
me: *puts a toddler next to the tiny rock, the toddler lifting the tiny rock.* just do that.

subx: YOU WRONG YOU DUM OMG

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

peepos bad at something: its impossible to lift this tiny rock
peepos to bad at arguing: *get the heavy weight lifting world champion to lift it*
me: *puts a toddler next to the tiny rock, the toddler lifting the tiny rock.* just do that.

subx: YOU WRONG YOU DUM OMG

  "IT'S TRUE THAT no amount of skill would be able to overcome BECAUSE SOMEONE BAD WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO IT" 🙃 

 

Great talk, understand the phrases you're using, because you clearly just don't.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

  IT'S TRUE THAT "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" BECAUSE SOMEONE BAD WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO IT 🙃 

 

Great talk, learn the phrases you're using.

we went from me supposedlyy defending the peepos to not knowing what i was talking about to not understanding words to this kindergarten stuff.

great job showing that you just argue for the sake of arguing and are malding at this point literally shifting the goal post.

 

[Sobx.1758]

25 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

we went from me supposedlyy defending the peepos to not knowing what i was talking about to not understanding words to this kindergarten stuff.

great job showing that you just argue for the sake of arguing and are malding at this point literally shifting the goal post.

I keep asking you:

Again, what do you think "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" means?

 

You keep dodging, probably because you realise you don't know what it actually means (or you've checked by now and already feel... um... less smart?). And there's no "we", I didn't go to any "peepos", I don't even know what you're talking about right now.

 

Anyways, in case you're still missing it, this is what you keep dodging:

Again, what do you think "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" means?

Again, what do you think "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" means?

Again, what do you think "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" means?

 

That was the claim. That was the response with the video. That's what you were arguing about and now you change it into "minimal/average skill", which has nothing to do with the earlier claim.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

20 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I keep asking you:

Again, what do you think "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" means?

 

You keep dodging, probably because you realise you don't know what it actually means (or you've checked by now and already feel... um... less smart?). And there's no "we", I didn't go to any "peepos", I don't even know what you're talking about right now.

 

Anyways, in case you're still missing it, this is what you keep dodging:

Again, what do you think "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" means?

Again, what do you think "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" means?

Again, what do you think "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" means?

 

That was the claim. That was the response with the video. That's what you were arguing about and now you change it into "minimal/average skill", which has nothing to do with the earlier claim.

better question: what do you think can debunk the claim of "no amount of skill would be able to overcome"?
answer: the minimal amount of skill that DOES overcome it.

 

aka the average pug raid from 2015.

 

what was that about not knowing what something means?

i think someone named sobx needs to look long and hard into a mirror 

Edited July 7, 2021 by ShroomOneUp.6913

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

better question: what do you think can debunk the claim of "no amount of skill would be able to overcome"?
answer: the minimal amount of skill that DOES overcome it.

 

aka the average pug raid from 2015.

 

what was that about not knowing what something means?

i think someone named sobx needs to look long and hard into a mirror 

That literally just shows you don't understand what "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" means, hence the question you keep dodging.

Answer what do you think "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" and I can continue with answering your questions ❤️

 

edit: Actually, whatever, at this point it's clear by your last few posts that you have no idea what it means. It means "NO MATTER HOW HIGH THE SKILL OF A PLAYER, THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO OVERCOME". Minimal/average skill has nothing to do with it. Go read a dictionary or something.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Abies.8754]

47 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

we went from me supposedlyy defending the peepos to not knowing what i was talking about to not understanding words to this kindergarten stuff.

great job showing that you just argue for the sake of arguing and are malding at this point literally shifting the goal post.

 

They did that on otehr topic too. They like to argue and annoy others. There is ignore option luckily so do not bother more.
They miss the point of other people posts on purpose and try to manipulate a conversation against others while trying to prove them wrong.
The ignore option is not widely known sadly. 

 

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That literally just shows you don't understand what "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" means, hence the question you keep dodging.

Answer what do you think "no amount of skill would be able to overcome" and I can continue with answering your questions ❤️

 

it merely shows you argue semantics and things that should be clear in plain english, since it is plain english.  i dunno what else to tell you. 

unless you begin to argue raids are impossible...then mate you need to git gut

[Sobx.1758]

4 minutes ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

it merely shows you argue semantics and things that should be clear in plain english, since it is plain english.  i dunno what else to tell you. 

unless you begin to argue raids are impossible...then mate you need to git gut

Actually, whatever, at this point it's clear by your last few posts that you have no idea what it means. It means "NO MATTER HOW HIGH THE SKILL OF A PLAYER, THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO OVERCOME". Minimal/average skill has nothing to do with it. Go read a dictionary or something.

 

And I don't mean that as some insult, literally check in dictionary what this phrase means, because you clearly don't know and so you understand its meaning in an opposite way of what it actually means. This is why you've argued for the last few pages about something nobody even said.

 

 

@Owatatsumi.5038 you ignored me so hard, that now you're following me around to other threads, good job.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Actually, whatever, at this point it's clear by your last few posts that you have no idea what it means. It means "NO MATTER HOW HIGH THE SKILL OF A PLAYER, THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO OVERCOME". Minimal/average skill has nothing to do with it. Go read a dictionary or something.

and? i mean that was clear to begin with. and everyone knows it that its false, except for those who claim it.

i begin to suspect you DO seem to claim that raids are impossible.

oh if you REALLY just want to know:

"raids are impossible = no amount of skill can overcome raids" now count how many times i used it to describe the claim in short XD

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

and? i mean that was clear to begin with. and everyone knows it that its false, except for those who claim it.

i begin to suspect you DO seem to claim that raids are impossible.

oh if you REALLY just want to know:

"raids are impossible = no amount of skill can overcome raids" now count how many times i used it to describe the claim in short XD

Ah, yes, the pinnacle of everyone's argument. "and?"

 

And you keep arguing about something nobody even said. And you were and are wrong. No more "ands", glad I could explain. You're also welcome for learning new english phrases here, bye now.