Precursor Legendary Armor via Crafting Not Gated to Raid, WVW, or PVP for EoD

[Asum.4960]

34 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

As has been mentioned many times over: it's not a problem that raid armor exist. The problem is that it's being called "the PvE armor". Which is bullkitten. Raids may be a PvE type content, but they are also a very niche content a huge majority of PvE players don't play. It is not an armor meant for PvE players - it is an armor that is meant only for the very small subset of PvE community. Which, of course, means, that a huge majority of PvE players do not have "their" armor at all.

 

That is a problem with calling Envoy set the PvE armor. It's just something that attempts to hide the fact that huge a majority of this game's players don't have a legendary armor meant for them. Because Envoy set is not that.

It's not a Raid Armor though. You can't just play Raids and get the Envoy Armor. Every piece of it requires OW content and currencies through Crystalline Ingots, Auric Ingots, Reclaimed Metal Plates, Chak Eggs and Gifts of the Pact, with the Gift of Dedication representing OW PvE, and the Gift of Prowess representing Raid engagement. On top of that it requires the Gift of Craftmanship and the usual boatload of resources. 

 

Similarly, even the collections itself require OW just as much as Raids and even Fractal content, through infusing the Crystal Heart at various Meta events, Fractals and Raid bosses, as well as other various OW tasks in the first collection. 

 

It's a general PvE armor through and through, and yes, as high end reward includes high end PvE content as well. 

For you, not enjoying Raids, that part may have been the painful part, for other's not enjoying grinding mindless meta events and sitting around for timers and such, the OW part was the painful bit (it certainly was for me).

 

Plus, considering the WvW armor takes around 29 weeks (almost 8 months) at significant dedication levels (grinding out maximum Skirmish Tickets every week, potentially investing hours daily or alternatively working on it for literally years), to compensate for the gameplay itself being potentially fairly low effort compared to the Raid involvement of the PvE Amor and the PvP armor, a purely OW armor, considering how incredibly low effort OW is, would have to be insanely gated to be at around a year of 2-5h daily grind to be in parity of that as to not devalue the other armors, and I can bet you that would get the people who actually just want a low effort legendary even angrier than it not existing at all. 

 

And even if Anet would introduce such a monumental OW only grind Armor (which I would be fine if if it indeed does not invalidate the effort of the other methods), then people would cry for a Fractal Armor, a Strike Armor, a DRM Armor, etc. for all other niches. 

But it's up to Anet where they give.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Astralporing.1957]

2 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

It's not a Raid Armor though. You can't just play Raids and get the Envoy Armor. Every piece of it requires OW content and currencies through Crystalline Ingots, Auric Ingots, Reclaimed Metal Plates, Chak Eggs and Gifts of the Pact, with the Gift of Dedication representing OW PvE, and the Gift of Prowess representing Raid engagement. On top of that it requires the Gift of Craftmanship and the usual boatload of resources. 

 

Similarly, even the collections itself require OW just as much as Raids and even Fractal content, through infusing the Crystal Heart at various Meta events, Fractals and Raid bosses, as well as other various OW tasks in the first collection. 

But it's the raids that constitute the 90% of the effort for that set. It's not a matter of shallow-dipping into the content - you have to be a heavily invested raider in order to get it. All the other stuff is very superficial, and anyone can do it easily, thus they are not a barrier that might prevent anyone from obtaining that gear.

That's why it is a Raid set.

 

It might have been a little different if the collections were the only Raid requirement, and you'd be able to substitute LIs with something else coming from outside raids, but you can't.

 

2 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

 

It's a general PvE armor through and through, and yes, as high end reward includes high end PvE content as well. 

 

Plus, considering the WvW armor takes around 29 weeks at significant dedication levels (grinding out maximum Skirmish Tickets every week, potentially investing hours daily or alternatively working on it for literally years), to compensate for the gameplay itself being potentially fairly low effort compared to the Raid involvement of the PvE Amor and the PvP armor, a purely OW armor, considering how incredibly low effort OW is, would have to be insanely gated to be at around a year of 2-5h daily grind to be in parity of that as to not devalue the other armors, and I can bet you that would get the people who actually just want a low effort legendary even angrier than it not existing at all.

Notice, how those "heavy dedication levels" are not a dedication towards obtaining the armor. For any WvW player it's just playing as they would play anyway.

 

We're not talking here about 2h of "grind". We're are talking about ~2h of mostly casual play daily. The only reason why it's a poblem for PvE players currently is that it is 2-5 hours daily of not playing PvE. And, obviously, no unique skin, which is a huge letdown.

[Asum.4960]

34 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

But it's the raids that constitute the 90% of the effort for that set. It's not a matter of shallow-dipping into the content - you have to be a heavily invested raider in order to get it. All the other stuff is very superficial, and anyone can do it easily, thus they are not a barrier that might prevent anyone from obtaining that gear.

That's why it is a Raid set.

 

It might have been a little different if the collections were the only Raid requirement, and you'd be able to substitute LIs with something else coming from outside raids, but you can't.

 

Notice, how those "heavy dedication levels" are not a dedication towards obtaining the armor. For any WvW player it's just playing as they would play anyway.

 

We're not talking here about 2h of "grind". We're are talking about ~2h of mostly casual play daily. The only reason why it's a poblem for PvE players currently is that it is 2-5 hours daily of not playing PvE. And, obviously, no unique skin, which is a huge letdown.

Well, I'm going to call personal bias there. For you that might have been the case, but sitting around at and grinding out things like Chak Gerent over, and over and over and over again (*30*3) for all of my sets was excruciating for me personally and a massive OW investment that I was not interested in whatsoever, while the Raid parts flew by for me as natural gameplay. 

 

I would have gladly had an actual Raid armor or option to substitute these painful OW grinds with LI, Magnetite Shards, Fractal Relics, Stabilizing Matrices, Fractal Journals or the like - but I forced myself through that painful process to get the reward anyway. 

 

Always just accepting that more engaging and challenging content oriented players have to force themselves through these massive OW requirements for pretty much all rewards while proclaiming that the people who don't enjoy the other side of the coin can't be expected to engage with content such as Raids might be a widely spread sentiment, but that doesn't make it any less of a massive double standard, nor does it make the Envoy Armor any less of a PvE set. 

And it's difficult to find empathy for people about having to force themselves through x content who have non themselves, as it makes it seem like they are just asking for handouts while invalidating what other's with different interests than them forced themselves through for these kinds of rewards. 

 

The Raid part of the Armor was a significant part of the effort and tough for you, I get it.

For me the OW part of the armor was a significant part of the effort and tough for me, that's valid too. 

These are high effort rewards. 

 

Asking for a purely X PvE sub-game mode (be it OW, Story, Fractals, Strikes, DRM's, Raids. Dungeons etc.) Legendary Armor is one thing, rebranding the current PvE Armor as Raid only armor and invalidating the experience of those who do not enjoy sheer endless Meta event zerging and the like, which are just as much a part of it, another.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Asum.4960

[hash.8462]

36 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Question:

Why would these casuals even care about legendary armor?

Casuals maybe don't even care about it, but non-raid PvE is not only composed by casuals, there are also dedicated players that only play that content because they don't like the other ones.

I've crafted them just for the stat/rune change, I'm not interested in the skin at all.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Why wouldn't they?

Hint: you might be surprised, but a lot of players care about legendaries for visuals, not for the utility. And even for casuals the utility is still nice.

 

I personally have quite a number of legendaries, and yet i don't care (well, "actively dislike" would be even more closer to the truth) about raids or any high-difficulty content at all. I just like collecting stuff i guess.

 

Yes, i did obtain the raid armor set. It was a painful experience i would not wish on anyone else. Some people may like that kind of content, but trying to push into it the players that do not like it is something that should not happen.

 

I'll give a different question though:

Why do the raiders care if casuals can get an access to a (different than theirs) legendary armor set?

First: If you want the skin; put in the effort to learn the content or deal with never getting it.  I'm never going to touch pvp and, by extension, I'm never going to get the pvp legendary armor or back item.  This is okay. 

You're giving the same arguments others gave about removing wvw from a requirement for legendary items.  It's not going to happen & It shouldn't happen.  Legendaries are about mastery over the game.  Raids are mastery over PvE content.  If you get 10 people who can full clear all the wings each week in a single day and pit them against any open world pve boss, that boss is toast with only a few minor exceptions (Bosses where you'd need more than 10 people for instance). Likewise, PvP and WvW legendary armors are about mastery over their respective game modes while weapons are about a little bit of everything but PvP (Just PvE and a singular WvW reward track.)

Now I wouldn't mind cheaper, skinless legendary items, but I don't think that'd be healthy for the game.  Legendary equipment has a prestige about them.  Their utility is part of that prestige.

[Vidit.7108]

16 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

First: If you want the skin; put in the effort to learn the content or deal with never getting it.  I'm never going to touch pvp and, by extension, I'm never going to get the pvp legendary armor or back item.  This is okay. 

You're giving the same arguments others gave about removing wvw from a requirement for legendary items.  It's not going to happen & It shouldn't happen.  Legendaries are about mastery over the game.  Raids are mastery over PvE content.  If you get 10 people who can full clear all the wings each week in a single day and pit them against any open world pve boss, that boss is toast with only a few minor exceptions (Bosses where you'd need more than 10 people for instance). Likewise, PvP and WvW legendary armors are about mastery over their respective game modes while weapons are about a little bit of everything but PvP (Just PvE and a singular WvW reward track.)

Now I wouldn't mind cheaper, skinless legendary items, but I don't think that'd be healthy for the game.  Legendary equipment has a prestige about them.  Their utility is part of that prestige.

Legendary weapons (and also trinkets) have very little to do with "mastery" over the game, you're not really better at finding a point of interest in Queensdale after your 5th time completing the world map than a new player on their 1st time. The Gift of Battle shows you can take pot shots at a zerg for 4 hours as much as it does that you can hold smc for days. The mystic coins are a time gate or a money sink, same really for t6 materials. The legendary armor in pvp/wvw really says more that you've played a lot than it will say about your skill or aptitude for it. And a wvw player will have a lot more junky components for legendaries than they can actually use in the time it took to get them. They have always marked more time than "mastery", Raid armor is the exception.

[hash.8462]

21 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Now I wouldn't mind cheaper, skinless legendary items, but I don't think that'd be healthy for the game.  Legendary equipment has a prestige about them.  Their utility is part of that prestige.

You are right, part of the armor value should comes from prestige (if you like to show off) but I know a few players who bougth Raid runs or lent their account to others (trusty) players to do this content for them, same thing is true for 1st gen weapons that you can get with gold at the TP. Sadly prestige can be bought nowadays, as in real life.

 

[WindBlade.8749]

On 7/13/2021 at 2:07 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Not cars. Cars are popular and typical vehicles. That is the difference.

 

That's the problem. You are in a room of mostly car users, and try to persuade them that cars and segways are the same, because both are vehicles. And that it's the segway that should represent wheeled vehicles, and not a car. Because cars are not cool enough, and driving them is too easy and mainstream to matter.

 

And then you're suprised that everyone's looking at you weirdly.

 

Like i said, some parts of PvE are more representative of the whole than others.

 

Similarily, i would never try to claim that "but PvE already have their armor" if that only armor set was purely JP based. Or purely mount race based. Those things are just too small a subset of the whole PvE to be considered representative enough of it.

 

I might consider a set based on, say DRM, because it's generally open to anyone. I might even consider a dungeon one - or even fractal one, it it didn't require more than fractal backpack does (so, no CMs). Raids however are just way too narrow to serve that purpose.

 

Like i said - raids are PvE in about the same way in which Albanian Prime Minister is a PM of Europe. Or even the whole world.

 

Albania is certainly a country in Europe - but it is not the Europe. It's also a part of the world - but it is not the world.

stop trying to change definition PvE mean player versus evinronement, aka players versus mobs or aka players versus entities, so fractals, raids, openworld are all PvE, you can have different PvE gamemode that don't play the same at all, and in all seriousness, in openworld i play the same way than in Raids, i do my rotation, i avoid mecha so i neve need to heal myself or use anything else than berserker (on a weaver yes) and there is so many people that i alwasy am full boon so .... the only time it's not like raids are outside of meta event, which is yes played differently, but honestly that just show that even in Openworld you play like in raids.

[WindBlade.8749]

1 hour ago, hash.8462 said:

You are right, part of the armor value should comes from prestige (if you like to show off) but I know a few players who bougth Raid runs or lent their account to others (trusty) players to do this content for them, same thing is true for 1st gen weapons that you can get with gold at the TP. Sadly prestige can be bought nowadays, as in real life.

 

maybe friends who helped, but that only a real minority since it's still 150 boss to do for one more armor, and if you want to buy  150 run boy, you are really a minority if you can afford it.

[hash.8462]

18 minutes ago, WindBlade.8749 said:

stop trying to change definition PvE mean player versus evinronement, aka players versus mobs or aka players versus entities, so fractals, raids, openworld are all PvE, you can have different PvE gamemode that don't play the same at all, and in all seriousness, in openworld i play the same way than in Raids, i do my rotation, i avoid mecha so i neve need to heal myself or use anything else than berserker (on a weaver yes) and there is so many people that i alwasy am full boon so .... the only time it's not like raids are outside of meta event, which is yes played differently, but honestly that just show that even in Openworld you play like in raids.

Well, you can play open pve with raid builds and rotations, but it isn't always the most efficient way to do it...

Some Raid dps builds lack boons, breakstuns, condi removal and some rotations a bit clunchy; pve outside of raids is also more chaotic and you often have to stop your rotation or waste your skills on trash mobs.

There are also players that use WvW builds in pve, everyone is free to play as they feel right.

 

3 minutes ago, WindBlade.8749 said:

maybe friends who helped, but that only a real minority since it's still 150 boss to do for one more armor, and if you want to buy  150 run boy, you are really a minority if you can afford it.

Well, I'm sure they "bought" every achivement up to unlocking the precursor.

For the other one who was helped it's the full armor, it was an exchange of accounts (when one was doing Raid the other was doing WvW as fas as I know).

[WindBlade.8749]

1 minute ago, hash.8462 said:

Well, you can play open pve with raid builds and rotations, but it isn't always the most efficient way to do it...

Some Raid dps builds lack boons, breakstuns, condi removal and some rotations a bit clunchy; pve outside of raids is also more chaotic and you often have to stop your rotation or waste your skills on trash mobs.

There are also players that use WvW builds in pve, everyone is free to play as they feel right.

 

Well, I'm sure they "bought" every achivement up to unlocking the precursor.

For the other one who was helped it's the full armor, it was an exchange of accounts (when one was doing Raid the other was doing WvW as fas as I know).

still a real minority, but like i say in meta event you are always full of boon, and you don't need breakstun since you don't get hit by mecha ....

[Sobx.1758]

8 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

As has been mentioned many times over: it's not a problem that raid armor exist. The problem is that it's being called "the PvE armor". Which is bullkitten. Raids may be a PvE type content, but they are also a very niche content a huge majority of PvE players don't play. It is not an armor meant for PvE players - it is an armor that is meant only for the very small subset of PvE community. Which, of course, means, that a huge majority of PvE players do not have "their" armor at all.

 

That is a problem with calling Envoy set the PvE armor. It's just something that attempts to hide the fact that huge a majority of this game's players don't have a legendary armor meant for them. Because Envoy set is not that.

It's rightfully called pve armor, because it's obtained through pve content. Nothing about that is bullkitten just because it doesn't involve ALL of the pve content at once.

 

And since now you pretend that's not the argumentation you've used:

On 7/13/2021 at 12:20 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

In the same way as Albania or Nigeria are the World.

 

Raid is not PvE. It's merely a very, very small part of it

On 7/13/2021 at 1:07 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Albania is certainly a country in Europe - but it is not the Europe. It's also a part of the world - but it is not the world.

Yes, it was.

[Sobx.1758]

8 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Why wouldn't they?

Because it doesn't give them power over ascended gear. Because they won't even use the utility that legendary gear brings. Because it's nothing more then "gimmegimme" attitude and it's rather clear for quite some time now 😄

 

Quote

Hint: you might be surprised, but a lot of players care about legendaries for visuals, not for the utility. And even for casuals the utility is still nice.

Hint: there's much more visual options outside of legendary gear.

_________

8 hours ago, Vidit.7108 said:

They just gave them free transmutation and the ability to share the armor across all your characters

It's not like casual players are constantly swapping builds and characters. Vast majority just camps literally one build on literally one character. Nothing wrong with that, but stop pretending that kind of utility makes any difference for them?

 

_________

7 hours ago, hash.8462 said:

Casuals maybe don't even care about it, but non-raid PvE is not only composed by casuals, there are also dedicated players that only play that content because they don't like the other ones.

I've crafted them just for the stat/rune change, I'm not interested in the skin at all.

So you wanted the reward, played through the content and got what you wanted. What's the problem here?

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

@Sobx.1758how nice for you to think you know what others want and like, better than they themselves do.

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

@Sobx.1758how nice for you to think you know what others want and like, better than they themselves do.

Dodging again? Ok.

[Astralporing.1957]

6 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Dodging again? Ok.

Nah, i just think laughable how you use your mindset and outlook and try to apply it as a basis to reason out the way of thinking of people that do not share that mindset.

 

I mean, you seem to honestly believe that everyone thinks exactly the same way you do. It's really cute in its absurdity.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Nah, i just think laughable how you use your mindset and outlook and try to apply it as a basis to reason out the way of thinking of people that do not share that mindset.

What mindset? Try being a little more specific, because I'm not projecting "my mindset" onto anyone.

 

Quote

I mean, you seem to honestly believe that everyone thinks exactly the same way you do. It's really cute in its absurdity.

No, I don't. What a silly baseless comment that responds to nothing I wrote. Keep dodging.

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Vidit.7108]

5 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

 

_________

It's not like casual players are constantly swapping builds and characters. Vast majority just camps literally one build on literally one character. Nothing wrong with that, but stop pretending that kind of utility makes any difference for them?

 

_________

 

 

Actually they do. A casual player will decide through trial and error what stats work for survivability and damage just like anyone else would in this game. Will they run raid meta? no probably not. And on top of that a casual player will actually transmute their armor a lot, they'll collect all the dyes, and they'll make more characters if they want to see different paths of the story. I've played with a lot of casual players in my time and sometimes they would have a new look every week. There are ten player voice actors and I've specifically made characters for all of them. Have you?

So, come off your high horse. I said what need they would have of it and now you're deciding that need is less important to them because you think it's more important to a raider. You're like a college football player that goes over and tells kids on the playground that they can't have that ball because they need it for kickoff later. It makes no difference to you what reasons a casual player has for wanting something, but they do have valid reasons.

[Sobx.1758]

19 minutes ago, Vidit.7108 said:

Actually they do. A casual player will decide through trial and error what stats work for survivability and damage just like anyone else would in this game.

Yeah and that happens long before they even get ascended gear, let alone legendary one.

 

Quote

Have you?

Yes, thanks for asking. Also using transmutation charges without much care and never ran out of them, but lets pretend this is suddenly a strong selling point of legendary armor.

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Vidit.7108]

@Sobx.1758 It's something players consider after every expansion, as you get new e-specs and come across enemies with different abilities.

We don't have to pretend transmutation is a strong selling point, Anet made it one in their armory update. If it wasn't worth mentioning they wouldn't have put it in the news post and committed resources to adding it. Same with every other QoL update they've made to them.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Vidit.7108 said:

@Sobx.1758 It's something players consider after every expansion, as you get new e-specs and come across enemies with different abilities.

Yes, they surely min-max their open world builds (expansion or not), recognize the tools needed to easly complete the new specific content while at the same time fail anything above early ow level of difficulty of events. And despite finding joy in fine tuning their builds between the content releases, things like raiding is just a concrete wall they can never climb. Not a made up argument at all, this is absolutely what is consistently happening, so the legendary gear is just crucial. 🙄 

 

Quote

We don't have to pretend transmutation is a strong selling point, Anet made it one in their armory update. If it wasn't worth mentioning they wouldn't have put it in the news post and committed resources to adding it. Same with every other QoL update they've made to them.

LOL

I see you totally understand how companies and sharing news works.

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Asum.4960]

1 hour ago, Vidit.7108 said:

Actually they do. A casual player will decide through trial and error what stats work for survivability and damage just like anyone else would in this game. Will they run raid meta? no probably not. And on top of that a casual player will actually transmute their armor a lot, they'll collect all the dyes, and they'll make more characters if they want to see different paths of the story. I've played with a lot of casual players in my time and sometimes they would have a new look every week. There are ten player voice actors and I've specifically made characters for all of them. Have you?

So, come off your high horse. I said what need they would have of it and now you're deciding that need is less important to them because you think it's more important to a raider. You're like a college football player that goes over and tells kids on the playground that they can't have that ball because they need it for kickoff later. It makes no difference to you what reasons a casual player has for wanting something, but they do have valid reasons.

It's interesting how the usual suspects of "casual" forum warriors came out to call out Raiders as entitled when they complained about the Build Loadout system monetization and limits, while admitting that it didn't affect themselves since they were only using one or two builds anyway and proclaiming the system to be great on that basis, while when it comes to rewards such as Legendary Armor, there suddenly is this need to constantly swap builds and build craft in the casual scene (which certainly isn't my experience with casuals I know, met and played with)? 

 

I'm also not quite sure how much skin transmutation would justify a 2500g armor plus months to a year+ of required heavy and constant ingame investment though collection and timegates and grinds. 

 

In any case, Legendary Gear isn't a "casual" reward and was never intended to be, nor will a purely OW armor be as to not invalidate previous acquisition methods.

 

But yes, as I said, I'd be personally fine with more avenues to gain these rewards, but also maintain that there needs to be some parity between the options. 

Some people, at least it seems, seem to think you just jump into raids (or WvW or PvP) and then get the armor, and not liking those particular game modes over casual OW content is what is keeping them from it, when even beyond that these rewards are for the incredibly hardcore and dedicated by design - something which once again, likely wouldn't, and shouldn't, change with possible future options. 

 

As mentioned, with the WvW armor being timegated to be 9 months minimum of significant heavy WvW investment (hours daily), because it possibly can be acquired with just OW-esque gameplay (with the added risk of being ambushed by other players), an entirely OW armor would likely be anything but casual either, and if Anet came out with a 12+ months of hours of daily Meta event grinding armour (plus the usual thousands of gold) to be in parity with the effort others did and will put in for the other sets (something I'm not fundamentally opposed to as option), I doubt many casuals will be pleased or find it worth it for some "free" Armor Transmutation and the like - considering that same audience complained about the price of the Griffon or the collections of the Skyscale as outrageous to impossible, which constitute minor fractions of the effort and price that something like a Legendary Armor involves. 

 

TL;DR:

The only real issue with this proposition I see is that the subsection of players who genuinely hate Raids, or the chance or definite prospect of fighting other players so much that they flat out refuse to go through that for such an incredibly high effort and high end reward, but at the same time are so incredibly dedicated that they would actually go for an alternative in parity to those efforts if it was just OW, is just incredibly small and probably doesn't justify the development costs of creating all those collections, possible skins, going through economy concerns and so on. 

 

Alternatively, if they were to make it a cheaper, easier and quicker alternative to all the other options.. well let's just say I think Anet has been burning bridges with dedicated, hardcore and veteran players enough the last few years.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Astralporing.1957]

39 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

It's interesting how the usual suspects of "casual" forum warriors came out to call out Raiders as entitled when they complained about the Build Loadout system monetization and limits, while admitting that it didn't affect themselves since they were only using one or two builds anyway and proclaiming the system to be great on that basis, while when it comes to rewards such as Legendary Armor, there suddenly is this need to constantly swap builds and build craft in the casual scene (which certainly isn't my experience with casuals I know, met and played with)? 

Which "usual suspects" you mean? Because i sure complained a lot about the atrocity that is the "template" system. And some of those that did use the entitlement card indeed appeared in this very thread, but not on the side you assume they might.

 

 

 

 

 

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

16 hours ago, Vidit.7108 said:

They just gave them free transmutation and the ability to share the armor across all your characters

 

Believe it or not because of the same reason as you. The convenience! I don't care if I ever see another RAID or PvP match or WvW match. But rather than using the mystic forge each and every time I want to swap stats on my 12 100% ascended geared characters  for EACH piece of gear it would be much simpler and more fun to do it to all at once wouldn't it? Now you might ask, "but WHY would you want to swap stats on your gear? You just #1 anyway " And that would show a very shallow and false perception. Do you honestly think the whole of guild wars 2 is #1? I'm sure the devs would disagree?! I do, I'd like to see the number of accounts that DO NO'T have a single death on the account! I bet that number is small. I bet it's not yours (I could be wrong) and I know it's not mine! So yes the ability for stat swapping more than the free skins. If you look I even suggested a gem store item for that instead but the put it on the LA instead, cool perk.

 

The fact is PvE / Casual players want the SAME things you want and are will to work for it just like you are They/we just want to work for it in OUR game mode. It can be just as long and complicated as it currently is after all I didn't craft 144 pieces of ascended armor and weapons in a day 😉 Sure would be nice to take those and upgrade them to legendary now!!!

Edited July 14, 2021 by Seth Moonshadow.2710
I meant to quote someone but it didn't work

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

1 hour ago, Asum.4960 said:

As mentioned, with the WvW armor being timegated to be 9 months minimum of significant heavy WvW investment (hours daily), because it possibly can be acquired with just OW-esque gameplay (with the added risk of being ambushed by other players), an entirely OW armor would likely be anything but casual either, and if Anet came out with a 12+ months of hours of daily Meta event grinding armour (plus the usual thousands of gold) to be in parity with the effort others did and will put in for the other sets (something I'm not fundamentally opposed to as option), I doubt many casuals will be pleased or find it worth it for some "free" Armor Transmutation and the like - considering that same audience complained about the price of the Griffon or the collections of the Skyscale as outrageous to impossible, which constitute minor fractions of the effort and price that something like a Legendary Armor involves. 

 

 

I can agree with you it should not be any easier than in PvP, WvW or RAIDs. But then It only took me a month to unlock all 3sets of precursor armor and have enough to buy my first set of them. It wasn't enjoyable at all. IT's all the other things in "upgrading/crafting" or really forging those ascended armors into legendary that is going to take even more time in WvW! In a game mode I'd rather NOT pay.  But YEAH! I would be happy to play my mode, PvE / Open World / Living World, and craft or "upgrade" my ascended set into legendary. As, I've mentioned already it's about the 1)Crafting/upgrading to legendary from an existing set of ascended (the innovation part) and the convenience of use plus perks! 2) the Affinity for the work I achieved through enjoyable game play vs the hatred for having to grind through a mode I dislike with other players doing nothing much but bagging on you.

 

However this hasn't changed since the first Twisted Marionette soo....