Precursor Legendary Armor via Crafting Not Gated to Raid, WVW, or PVP for EoD

[hash.8462]

18 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

...hardcore players in raids, who master different classes and builds perfectly.

No offense, but that was really fun 🤣

I really would like to know how many of them are able to solo a DRM with all CM active and without dying... most of them are only masters of getting healed when busy to hit buttons like in the Wintersday Bell Choir (also no offence there, some of them are really great players).

[Asum.4960]

3 minutes ago, hash.8462 said:

I really would like to know how many of them are able to solo a DRM with all CM active and without dying... 

Considering DRM CM's are just a little step above auto attack content (save for Snowden Drifts where the timer is a bit tight), I'd imagine most to nearly all of them...

[hash.8462]

2 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

Considering DRM CM's are just a little step above auto attack content (save for Snowden Drifts where the timer is a bit tight), I'd imagine most to nearly all of them...

Since I had to duo those DRM to help a some raiders of the guilds I'm in, no, not many since they were always dead on the floor... but maybe they were just bad players.

[Compass.9621]

 

I think this, as a request for a Legendary Armor Precursor that is not gated by Raid, WvW or PVP, is valid.

 

A legendary armor is a convenience equipment. It has similar stats as that of an ascended armor and besides the skin (for PVE) the benefits to having a legendary armor over having its equivalents are (i) inventory space; and (ii) free change of stats, runes, infusions. These benefits have multiplier effect with the introduction of Legendary Armory - that is more inventory space across multiple characters and access of free-stat-changing-armor across all similar armor-type characters. As such, it is not a needed in any of the game content besides the cost and time efficiency of having one to theory craft, study, or tweak one's stat.

 

When the Legendary Armor was earlier introduced, for me it was like the ultimate end-of-game item. This was not true anymore when a Legendary Armor for WvW and PvP was added. These types somehow provided the players who don't play or cannot stomach the PvE content to gain access to a LA Precursor and a Legendary Armor.

 

Since not all PvE players play WvW, PvP, or raid, how about providing a means to craft a LA Precursor and a Legendary Armor that is not gated by those mentioned game modes?

 

Options that may be reviewed to implement this includes a quest to be able to farm higher-end materials on existing nodes towards crafting LA Precursors.

 

For those who don't wish to take such path, nothing is lost. However, for many PvE players who don't do raid, it may be an exciting content to spend and waste one's time in the open world. 

 

Other benefits may include lessening the number of players being forced to play specific game modes just to earn specific LA Precursors. This may lessen the exposure of and prejudice to players who are doing game contents that they are not comfortable with – which somehow contributes to making specific game mode toxic and not fun-to-play anymore.

[Alice.4215]

11 hours ago, JaconKin.5623 said:

Since returning after a 7 year break from the game, the addition of being able to craft precursors and legendary weapons was added, a nice addition. So why not armor?  

 

To be technical with you, all Legendary Armors are crafted. They just require mats from different places(game modes) and you have to do different things to get them.

 

I understand to having a preference for a certain game mode over another, I was like that too.

Just to give you an idea, 4 years ago, all I did was World Bosses and literally refused to step foot in Fractals, Raids, PvP and only did WvW for quick dailies.

I kept saying that these game modes were simply not for me when people asked me to join them.

I have now tried each game mode since then and I can personally tell you there is fun to be had in each of them, especially if you have/make friends along the way. 

What I am really trying to say here is dont diss the game modes before really trying them out.

 

Regarding PvP

There is a certain Bronze Ranked one handed(lost a hand) player who clicks all of their skills(even auto-attack) during PvP and holds both mouse buttons to run forward. This player is now 3 wins away from getting enough Tournament Victories for Transcendence(PvP Legendary Amulet) after 5 months of working on it. If they can do it, so can you.

 

Regarding WvW

You follow the commander, you listen to their instructions, you'll get your Legendary after a while. If they tell you to build you do so. If they tell you to run away, you do so. No you will not win every fight, such is the game mode.

 

Regarding Raids

Join a training group first and start with the easiest Raid bosses(Escort and Mursaat). You might not get your first kill for a few weeks as people are still learning(and so are you), but it will happen eventually. Once you have a few kills down, you move to other bosses. This is what EVERYONE has done since the introduction of Raids in HoT. They killed Vale Guardian in Wing1 then moved on to Gorseval then to Sabetha. Also, it does not require that level of dedication that people claim it does. 

 

Dont look at the Legendaries as a chore/grind to do. Take your time to enjoy the game and the Legendary will happen someday. Remember, you took a 7 year break. Trying to bridge the gap between you and someone who has played during those 7 years is a daunting task. Dont ask for an easy way out as there isnt one and wont be one. 

 

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

6 hours ago, Doomfrost.5728 said:

Legendary Armor will have to be tied to something. It's supposed to denote an achievement, something you've worked towards. Crafting is not an achievement, it's simply a component needed in the process of owning a set. Raid+Craft, WvW+Craft, PvP+Craft. 

 

If you want another legendary set, it has to be tied to something other than just crafting.

Well, I can somewhat agree to that. and much like PvP, WvW & RAIDs  maybe for Living World it should be tied to Spirit shards + Map Participation?! Just about the same way as it is in WvW. Spirit Shards act as the Skirmish Tickets and Map Participation replaces "Match Participation" progress. Many maps already have participation, just add it to the rest and give us a new shiney ascended piece to buy as the precursor (or better still let us use the ascended items we have already crafted + new shiney legendary item to upgrade them to precursor status). That way BOTH Spirit Shards + Participation count to a token/ticket for Living World Legendary Armor and gear just like it does in WvW, & PvP. Then the same thing can be applied to Fractals or other areas.  It's basically a new vendor or add to Forge vendors + 2 or 3 new shiney items to use for upgrading / crafting ascended armor (just like you do for WvW) into a precursor and then to Legendary. Keep the Grand Master Marks as part also. Then have it added to Legendary Armory. Same system just using Living World/Expansion maps for the GRIND location and content. That's all we are asking for.

 

As far as the crafting part it's not far off from what you do using the Legendary Journey process now or for PvP & WvW. You can use the same system just make the GRIND in Living World and Expansion maps content + Spirit Shards+ Participation Item (Cartographers Map Ticket) + Grandmaster marks +Ascended Armor / Gear Item (if using existing crafted item then it must be exchanged for new precursor ascended armor / gear piece).

 

Something I have again been a strong voice and advocate for but yet here we are years later and nothing has happened. But maybe with the "returning to our roots" and returning staff + this post it might actually happen?

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

But if you don't play end-content like raids or fraks and you don't play WVW or PVP why do you need Legy Armor at all?

Before you ask that question, consider this: Why SPvP players need legendary armor and trinkets? They don't use their functionality at all.

 

1 hour ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Uff and when I read how some make a whole community bad ... yup, wonder who really sucks here.

The people that decide that other players can't have good things due to prefering to play in content someone deems unworthy. That think that only some types of content (incidentally, always those types they, themselves, like) are worthy of some types of desirable rewards.

[Astralporing.1957]

19 minutes ago, Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

What I am really trying to say here is dont diss the game modes before really trying them out.

I don't do that. I did farm my Envoy armor. I do understand a lot of things about Raids better, but did that made them any more enjoyable to me than i originally assumed they would be? No. I'm even more of the mind that this content is definitely only for the select few, and not something most players would enjoy. And that pushing all PvE players towards it is not a good design.

 

Similarily, i did play both SPvP and WvW to a certain degree. So, when i comment on some mode, it's not uniformed opinion (or, at least in case of SPvP, which i played only semi-casually, not completely uninformed - but then, i do know my limitations when speaking about that one specific mode)

 

So, when you see people commenting on Raids (for example), don't assume they lack any knowledge about it. Some indeed do, but some speak from experience.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Doomfrost.5728]

22 minutes ago, Seth Moonshadow.2710 said:

*snip*

 

 

I agree with the route of your suggestions that their should be more avenues one can take in obtaining legendary armor. It's finding a balance that matches the requirements of current legendary crafting systems already in place. Certainly if one doesn't feel inclined to participate in raids or pvp game modes for whatever reason they should be able to take another route that suits their play style while being just as demanding as the other game modes. 

 

Even though I've crafted a few Legendary weapons in my time and am currently crafting legendary armor taking the WvW route. I still empathize with those who might not enjoy those game modes as I'm certainly in no rush to do any structured PvP or participate in raiding anytime soon. 

 

I'm also quizzical as to why legendary weapons Gift of Mastery shouldn't also accept Gift of Craftmanship as a replacement for Gift of Battle.  I'm all for more options, not less.

 

[Alice.4215]

36 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I don't do that. I did farm my Envoy armor. I do understand a lot of things about Raids better, but did that made them any more enjoyable to me than i originally assumed they would be? No. I'm even more of the mind that this content is definitely only for the select few, and not something most players would enjoy. And that pushing all PvE players towards it is not a good design.

 

Similarily, i did play both SPvP and WvW to a certain degree. So, when i comment on some mode, it's not uniformed opinion (or, at least in case of SPvP, which i played only semi-casually, not completely uninformed - but then, i do know my limitations when speaking about that one specific mode)

 

So, when you see people commenting on Raids (for example), don't assume they lack any knowledge about it. Some indeed do, but some speak from experience.

 

Sorry but my previous comment was not aimed at you, but at OP who came back after 7 years, therefore has at most 2 years of experience in the whole game(because the game is not 9 years old yet, go figure), so I dont think they have really tried out all of the game modes much based on the length of time they played, especially since they gave the impression of being a casual.

 

Let's agree that, if you did try all of the game modes and still decide some of them are just not for you, you have every right to do so and we all respect that.

 

But the rewards are set based on what the devs think is the correct amount of effort in a certain direction to obtain them, as is the case for every game out there. The word reward itself implies effort, otherwise the correct word to use is gift.

 

If they cannot find a game mode that they like, and unlike you they are also not willing to put any effort towards the currently available rewards, and they are also not having fun or their fun is being ruined because they cannot attain said rewards, then the game might simply just not be for them.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Turtle Dragon.9241

[Astralporing.1957]

22 minutes ago, Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

But the rewards are set based on what the devs think is the correct amount of effort in a certain direction to obtain them, as is the case for every game out there. The word reward itself implies effort, otherwise the correct word to use is gift.

Notice, that the devs decided on the only legendary armor in PvE being acquirable through raiding at the time when they still thought they can make raids work in this game. Turns out, they were wrong about it.

 

Also, speaking about "what the devs think" in a thread that aims at changing their minds is not exactly an argument. It's just a creative inertia ("things have always been that way, so it means it must be good, and should stay that way"), nothing more.

 

If you want to use that kind of argument, you'd better mention why devs once decided on that specific "correct" amount of effort, and why it is still relevant. But you can't, because you don't know that. None of us do.

 

Quote

If they cannot find a game mode that they like, and unlike you they are also not willing to put any effort towards the currently available rewards, and they are also not having fun or their fun is being ruined because they cannot attain said rewards, then the game might simply just not be for them.

Yes, it might be. Or, it might be a sign that the game needs adjustments.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Raknar.4735]

The introduction of the first story legendary (amulet) and the focus on the legendary armory make me believe more things are coming in EoD besides gen 3 weapons (the attainable precursor through story also makes me wonder if they want to make legendaries more accessible to the average player).
I‘d say Anet introducing a new way to attain legendary armour unlinked from niche content within EoD is likely.

 

We‘ll just have to wait. The earliest we may get new info on stuff like this is the 27th.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Raknar.4735

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

If innovation is part of their "manifesto" then do something no other game does! Reward ALL game mode players with the rewards they want for the mode they chose to play in while supporting your game. After all the gems store is more widely used buy ( 😉 ) those who can actually use it in their game mode. So If it is a convenient thing then let me just strait up buy my legendary armor from the gem store and support the game others want to "get guud" at and earn those rewards. If Anet lets WvW and PvP player have a voice and make choices about their game modes then at the very least do the same for Living World players. Right now and in the past there are a large group that want to see like kind legendary armor / gear earned by playing Living World and Expansion content.

 

Yes, RAIDs are deemed PvE content. Then why were the legendary trinkets NOT earned via RAIDs? Wasn't it Fractals that introduced the first legendary ring? And yet Fractal Players too do not have their mode of legendaries.

 

Innovate, make use of existing systems and change the way it works for the rest of the player base. Or is there a fear the other game modes can't stand on their own? I'm sure that is not the case. After all they have to step into PvE for legendary weapons and I see plenty of PvP tags and Warbringer backpacks. And yet they complain about having to play in the PvE content too. So it sounds like considering the players wants and innovating are the solution, doesn't it?

 

 

Fun Fact: This debate happens ever time one mode wants something another has.

Fun Fact: It's not been solved!

 

just thoughts all, enjoy and have a good night 🙂

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

10 minutes ago, Raknar.4735 said:

The introduction of the first story legendary (amulet) and the focus on the legendary armory make me believe more things are coming in EoD besides gen 3 weapons (the attainable precursor through story also makes me wonder if they want to make legendaries more accessible to the average player).
I‘d say Anet introducing a new way to attain legendary armour unlinked from niche content within EoD is likely.

 

We‘ll just have to wait. The earliest we may get new info on stuff like this is the 27th.

We can hope and dream at least! I for one am hoping and dreaming you are correct! If for the sole reasoning of remving this heated debate of game modes 🙂 👏

[Dondarrion.2748]

See so many players playing this and other MMORPGs citing they neither like playing with other players (group pve content) nor playing against other people (wvw/pvp), and they argue they want these - arguably top tier/endgame - rewards that these game modes reward.

 

First, it comes across as quite entitled, and second, it just seems like they're playing the wrong type of game for them.

 

So, either you get with the game and play the necessary content until you achieve your goals, or you don't bother with those rewards. I bet they also have issue with Gift of Exploration, which requires running around wvw maps, or the Gift of Battle for wvw tracks, Gift of War, etc etc. that are required for most legendary weapons too.

 

Probably unpopular opinion, I'm semi casual myself and in mostly inactive guilds that don't group for stuff, and my playtime schedule doesn't allow for much raiding, but in order to get my legendary armor, I'm working slowly on it and while it's taken several years I'm halfway through my required LI and only need the crystalline heart kill of Deimos now to achieve my goal.

[Astralporing.1957]

44 minutes ago, Dondarrion.2748 said:

I bet they also have issue with Gift of Exploration, which requires running around wvw maps

Oh boy. You haven't done any Legendary lately, did you...

[Dondarrion.2748]

7 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Oh boy. You haven't done any Legendary lately, did you...

I know very well 2nd gen don't require them, however I also have Flameseeker Prophecies and work on Juggernaut still.

[Telgum.6071]

22 hours ago, hash.8462 said:

If you think Raid is PvE

Stopping reading here. PvE means player vs environment, raid is PvE no matter what you argue about that. And PvE already have a legendary armor.

[Astralporing.1957]

39 minutes ago, Dondarrion.2748 said:

I know very well 2nd gen don't require them, however I also have Flameseeker Prophecies and work on Juggernaut still.

That's not what i meant. Gift of Exploration stopped requiring WvW ages ago.

[Dondarrion.2748]

48 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's not what i meant. Gift of Exploration stopped requiring WvW ages ago.

Okay, I've not done world completions in a long time. But the point still stands, Gift of Glory requires pvp tokens, Gift of Battle is from WvW reward tracks and Gift of War requires tokens from wvw, arguably you can get some off the TP but not Gift of Battle afaik.

[Voltekka.2375]

13 hours ago, Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

 

To be technical with you, all Legendary Armors are crafted. They just require mats from different places(game modes) and you have to do different things to get them.

 

I understand to having a preference for a certain game mode over another, I was like that too.

Just to give you an idea, 4 years ago, all I did was World Bosses and literally refused to step foot in Fractals, Raids, PvP and only did WvW for quick dailies.

I kept saying that these game modes were simply not for me when people asked me to join them.

I have now tried each game mode since then and I can personally tell you there is fun to be had in each of them, especially if you have/make friends along the way. 

What I am really trying to say here is dont diss the game modes before really trying them out.

 

Regarding PvP

There is a certain Bronze Ranked one handed(lost a hand) player who clicks all of their skills(even auto-attack) during PvP and holds both mouse buttons to run forward. This player is now 3 wins away from getting enough Tournament Victories for Transcendence(PvP Legendary Amulet) after 5 months of working on it. If they can do it, so can you.

 

Regarding WvW

You follow the commander, you listen to their instructions, you'll get your Legendary after a while. If they tell you to build you do so. If they tell you to run away, you do so. No you will not win every fight, such is the game mode.

 

Regarding Raids

Join a training group first and start with the easiest Raid bosses(Escort and Mursaat). You might not get your first kill for a few weeks as people are still learning(and so are you), but it will happen eventually. Once you have a few kills down, you move to other bosses. This is what EVERYONE has done since the introduction of Raids in HoT. They killed Vale Guardian in Wing1 then moved on to Gorseval then to Sabetha. Also, it does not require that level of dedication that people claim it does. 

 

Dont look at the Legendaries as a chore/grind to do. Take your time to enjoy the game and the Legendary will happen someday. Remember, you took a 7 year break. Trying to bridge the gap between you and someone who has played during those 7 years is a daunting task. Dont ask for an easy way out as there isnt one and wont be one. 

 

The wvw "advice" couldnt be further away from the truth. You dont need a commander who "tells you what to do". You can play all sorts of roles in wvw, from solo roaming to smallscale group to havoc to blobbing etc. 

 

[Sobx.1758]

14 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The people that decide that other players can't have good things due to prefering to play in content someone deems unworthy. That think that only some types of content (incidentally, always those types they, themselves, like) are worthy of some types of desirable rewards.

"The people" (in the meaning of "players") don't decide that, devs do. Except now you and people like OP want to decide about it, so... 🤔

[hash.8462]

3 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

Stopping reading here. PvE means player vs environment, raid is PvE no matter what you argue about that. And PvE already have a legendary armor.

And PvP means Player vs Player, so also WvW is the same of PvP? That said PvP have 2 Legendary Armors?

If you don't read all I've wrote, it means you just don't want to listen to other people... I suppose it's useless to continue a discussion with someone that don't even bother to hear.

Anyway to me Raids are PvB Player vs Boss, personal opinion since there is nothing else to do in Raids.

[Astralporing.1957]

58 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

"The people" (in the meaning of "players") don't decide that, devs do. Except now you and people like OP want to decide about it, so... 🤔

Devs, when they decide something should be placed in specific content, do that for completely other reasons than "worthiness" of the content. Specifically, for business/marketing/gameplay ones. It's some of the players that think devs making such a decision are a validation of their beliefs of "worthiness" of the content.

 

Also, i remember you speaking about what should and should not be in the game as well, so i guess you also count yourself among that "you and people like OP" group?

[Telgum.6071]

1 minute ago, hash.8462 said:

And PvP means Player vs Player, so also WvW is the same of PvP? That said PvP have 2 Legendary Armors?

If you don't read all I've wrote, it means you just don't want to listen to other people... I suppose it's useless to continue a discussion with someone that don't even bother to hear.

Anyway to me Raids are PvB Player vs Boss, personal opinion since there is nothing else to do in Raids.

World versus World - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

World vs. World (also known as WvW) is a game mode combining Player versus Player and Player versus Environment elements.