Precursor Legendary Armor via Crafting Not Gated to Raid, WVW, or PVP for EoD

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Astralporing.1957 said:

Devs, when they decide something should be placed in specific content, do that for completely other reasons than "worthiness" of the content. Specifically, for business/marketing/gameplay ones. It's some of the players that think devs making such a decision are a validation of their beliefs of "worthiness" of the content.

Did I somehow discuss the reasoning in that post or did I just say "The people" (in the meaning of "players") don't decide that, devs do." after you claimed in this same thread players are trying to decide it after you and people like OP were the ones that try to decide what content should or shouldn't give which rewards?

And I don't see what's wrong with that broadly understood "business/marketing/gameplay" reasoning, what's the issue here?

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

And I don't see what's wrong with that broadly understood "business/marketing/gameplay" reasoning, what's the issue here?

That i was commenting about people that say that someone should not get something because the content they play is not worthy enough of the reward. And you brought devs into it, when devs don't generally do that at all.

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That i was commenting about people that say that someone should not get something because the content they play is not worthy enough of the reward. And you brought devs into it, when devs don't generally do that at all.

This whole thread and similar to it are started by people that try to decide what they should be rewarded for playing what content. You don't have a problem with that, but you're trying to somehow point at the people that are disagreeing with them, because... "they're trying to decide what's worthy"? lol.

You're either ok with both or with neither, nothing more makes much sense other than you trying to use double standards and claim something's ok to do only when it fits your opinion.

[Astralporing.1957]

8 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

This whole thread and similar to it are started by people that try to decide what they should be rewarded for playing what content. You don't have a problem with that, but you're trying to somehow point at the people that are disagreeing with them, because... "they're trying to decide what's worthy"? lol.

You're either ok with both or with neither, nothing more makes much sense other than you trying to use double standards and claim something's ok to do only when it fits your opinion.

You may not find any difference between inclusive ("let's give some options to those people") and exclusive ("those people should never get that option") approach, but i do.

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You may not find any difference between inclusive ("let's give some options to those people") and exclusive ("those people should never get that option") approach, but i do.

You may not find any difference between "try to decide" and "try to decide", but I do.

 

Also lets not forget that it's not available in pve unless it requires all of the pve related activities, because that's the line of argumentation you've tried to use 2 pages ago -well, at least until the requirement would be changed from raids to whatever you wanted it to be. 😄

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

13 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Also lets not forget that it's not available in pve unless it requires all of the pve related activities, because that's the line of argumentation you've tried to use 2 pages ago

No, that wasn't the argumentation i used. But again, that's the only way you can argue back, i guess.

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

43 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

No, that wasn't the argumentation i used. But again, that's the only way you can argue back, i guess.

It very clearly was with your constant "it's just part of the world, not all of it!" (hence why I'm saying it above) metaphors. If it wasn't, then next time please come up with comparisons that better convey what you're trying to say.

 

 

But maybe you just forgot what you wrote 2 pages ago, so lets remind you so you won't try to claim I'm making it up (because apparently that's the only only way you can argue back at this point):

On 7/13/2021 at 12:20 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

In the same way as Albania or Nigeria are the World.

 

Raid is not PvE. It's merely a very, very small part of it

On 7/13/2021 at 1:07 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Albania is certainly a country in Europe - but it is not the Europe. It's also a part of the world - but it is not the world.

🤔

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[ugrakarma.9416]

for those who cry about open world being "easy" theres skycale that proof is possible make a "harder" pve stuff to get. just make Open World Legendary hard (or more) as skycale, then, done.

 

give it a cool looking, and lock it behind a huge material grind and scavenger collections spreaded all over the world. will benefit the economy and make open world crowd something to do.

Edited July 14, 2021 by ugrakarma.9416

[Fuchslein.8639]

1 hour ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

for those who cry about open world being "easy" theres skycale that proof is possible make a "harder" pve stuff to get. just make Open World Legendary hard (or more) as skycale, then, done.

 

give it a cool looking, and lock it behind a huge material grind and scavenger collections spreaded all over the world. will benefit the economy and make open world crowd something to do.

 

Skyscale is not hard, its grindy ...

I know there are people who think they have skill because they have grinded lot legys. E.g. one I once knew has farmed Ranked PVP afk and then in the end was bragging about her Legy back ...

I mean, wasting time is probably a skill for some ...

[hash.8462]

Leaving aside the PvE mode talk that I suppose will lead nowhere...

 

I have a question for Raiders, and plese be honest...

Are you afraid that an "Open PvE" Armor will cause players to lose interest in Raids? Is that's the problem?

[Fuchslein.8639]

What Achievments would such an Armor have to have in order to be "PVE"?
No raids, no fractals, no dungeons, no DRM's and strikes, no JP's and as was said above, it seems to be too much for the PVE players here in this thread to have to grind.

And I bet there are other points of pve-only players which one or the other doesn't like.

 

If most of them care at all.

And btw, if raids and fractals and such don't count as PVE, the Achievments for the Legy Armor and Legy backs need to be changed too please, so that they are truly raid and fractal exclusive ^^'' /shrug.

And then there must also be Legy weapons for PVP and WVW and Raids only. I wonder how much content we would get if anet would go  and fulfill the wishes of every single player :''D.

[Vidit.7108]

I would like it if legendary armor could be made through the combination of crafting and questing like the gen1 (+ 4 Gen2) legendary weapons could. 
I play a lot of fractals but raids are a bridge too far for my skill level. The game has a lot of really fun collection quests none of which lead you to legendary armor. Open world rewards as time has gone on have lagged behind, remember when spending karma in Orr could get you some nice exotics? That's just not so important anymore. I'm pretty accepting of never getting legendary armor though. I'd love it if there were another way and want stat swaping armor, but not willing to do it with any of the current methods.
Whenever I'm making legendary weapons I just kind of dread having to spend a few hours with WvW players for that Gift of Battle. I'm really just not into PvP, I don't care about wining enough. It was also a lot more fun before they made that big E-sports push back in 2014. I'd be fine if WvW players never needed to come to Open World again if they didn't want to. Give them accessories and drop the Gift of Exploration from their legendary weapons. I wouldn't even mind if new Open World armor was grindy. They could breathe some life back into dungeons if they made grinding those a step in crafting legendary armor.
But the problem with suggesting any of this is Raid players feel like you're cheapening their rewards if players who don't work as hard as they do have a way to access to similar rewards. They don't want someone to spend less effort for something they have. I wouldn't mind though if they made a legendary raid backpack or open world backpack, I'll still have my special fractal backpack skin. Trying to make room for other/new styles of play brings out all these people who will care though if new content gets a perceived boost. Still, you don't see me complaining about all the gold I lost repairing my armor in 2013 so maybe very few players would actually care.

[Fuchslein.8639]

18 minutes ago, Vidit.7108 said:

I would like it if legendary armor could be made through the combination of crafting and questing like the gen1 (+ 4 Gen2) legendary weapons could. 
I play a lot of fractals but raids are a bridge too far for my skill level. The game has a lot of really fun collection quests none of which lead you to legendary armor. Open world rewards as time has gone on have lagged behind, remember when spending karma in Orr could get you some nice exotics? That's just not so important anymore. I'm pretty accepting of never getting legendary armor though. I'd love it if there were another way and want stat swaping armor, but not willing to do it with any of the current methods.
Whenever I'm making legendary weapons I just kind of dread having to spend a few hours with WvW players for that Gift of Battle. I'm really just not into PvP, I don't care about wining enough. It was also a lot more fun before they made that big E-sports push back in 2014. I'd be fine if WvW players never needed to come to Open World again if they didn't want to. Give them accessories and drop the Gift of Exploration from their legendary weapons. I wouldn't even mind if new Open World armor was grindy. They could breathe some life back into dungeons if they made grinding those a step in crafting legendary armor.
But the problem with suggesting any of this is Raid players feel like you're cheapening their rewards if players who don't work as hard as they do have a way to access to similar rewards. They don't want someone to spend less effort for something they have. I wouldn't mind though if they made a legendary raid backpack or open world backpack, I'll still have my special fractal backpack skin. Trying to make room for other/new styles of play brings out all these people who will care though if new content gets a perceived boost. Still, you don't see me complaining about all the gold I lost repairing my armor in 2013 so maybe very few players would actually care.

 

 

The raiders I know wouldn't even care if you could buy legy armor in the gemstore. Personally, I don't care either.

My question is, how much does Anet have to spend to please everyone?
As someone who joined gw2 later, I want all the stuff you got for free before me please.
And I have a friend who plays raids-only who wouldn't mind if everything we PVE players have is available in raids. Because, you write, PVE would lag behind, where in fact, Anet provides 90% if not more content, only for PVE players ...

Edited July 14, 2021 by Fuchslein.8639

[ugrakarma.9416]

2 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

 

Skyscale is not hard, its grindy ...

 

Grindy is hard.

[hash.8462]

1 hour ago, hash.8462 said:

Are you afraid that an "Open PvE" Armor will cause players to lose interest in Raids? Is that the problem?

Oh, those downvote using the confused face are also an answer to the question, no need to saying anything else. TY

[Telgum.6071]

4 hours ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

for those who cry about open world being "easy" theres skycale that proof is possible make a "harder" pve stuff to get. just make Open World Legendary hard (or more) as skycale, then, done.

 

give it a cool looking, and lock it behind a huge material grind and scavenger collections spreaded all over the world. will benefit the economy and make open world crowd something to do.

In which world is the skyscale collection an example of hard PvE? Dhuum is hard, the skyscale collection is just investing time grinding.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

If ANet wants to make more legendary armor without raids, I want each piece of that armor to have the same requirements as making a single gen 2 legendary weapon.

[Xerac.1542]

2 hours ago, hash.8462 said:

[...] 

 

I have a question for Raiders, and plese be honest...

Are you afraid that an "Open PvE" Armor will cause players to lose interest in Raids? Is that's the problem?

 

Not gonna lie, I am by no means the best raider, just average. 

But my personal opinion would be not more than 10% of current raiders are there because of getting legendary armor. 

The rest most likely stayed after obtaining it. 

 

I got back into raiding because of the light armor. Moving crystals coming out of my robe?! Hell yeah! 

I still enjoy the content for what it is and still try to do my weekly clears. 

 

Getting back to your question:

Personally I wouldn't mind people getting legendary armor outside of raids. Maybe it would even encourage them to try raids since they can swap stats more freely to get more cohesive/benefitting builds for their group. 

 

I would be kinda sad if everyone got the awesome crystal stuff... That is my shiny! 

Non-raid armor should all have the medium armor raid skin /s

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

What Achievments would such an Armor have to have in order to be "PVE"?

Such that would not require the vast majority of PvE players to play the content they never do play and is not meant for them.

 

As has been mentioned many times over: it's not a problem that raid armor exist. The problem is that it's being called "the PvE armor". Which is bullkitten. Raids may be a PvE type content, but they are also a very niche content a huge majority of PvE players don't play. It is not an armor meant for PvE players - it is an armor that is meant only for the very small subset of PvE community. Which, of course, means, that a huge majority of PvE players do not have "their" armor at all.

 

That is a problem with calling Envoy set the PvE armor. It's just something that attempts to hide the fact that huge a majority of this game's players don't have a legendary armor meant for them. Because Envoy set is not that.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[hash.8462]

1 hour ago, Xerac.1542 said:

 

Not gonna lie, I am by no means the best raider, just average. 

But my personal opinion would be not more than 10% of current raiders are there because of getting legendary armor. 

The rest most likely stayed after obtaining it. 

 

I got back into raiding because of the light armor. Moving crystals coming out of my robe?! Hell yeah! 

I still enjoy the content for what it is and still try to do my weekly clears. 

 

Getting back to your question:

Personally I wouldn't mind people getting legendary armor outside of raids. Maybe it would even encourage them to try raids since they can swap stats more freely to get more cohesive/benefitting builds for their group. 

 

I would be kinda sad if everyone got the awesome crystal stuff... That is my shiny! 

Non-raid armor should all have the medium armor raid skin /s

TY for the answer Xerac;

By the way I've already done my armors so I don't need it (I play all non raid PvE and WvW), I've stopped to play raids because of the toxicity of players, also against their own guildmates with heavy insults and so on resulting in friends that left the game, and in these years nothing seems to have changed as far I can hear in discord from my guildmates...

I support the introduction of a new armor just because I think "open" pve deserve it, but it don't need to be easy to get or cheap (it should be an hellish nightmare so as not to get into contention with the other ones).

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

15 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Such that would not require the vast majority of PvE players to play the content they never do play and is not meant for them.

 

As has been mentioned many times over: it's not a problem that raid armor exist. The problem is that it's being called "the PvE armor". Which is bullkitten. Raids may be a PvE type content, but they are also a very niche content a huge majority of PvE players don't play. It is not an armor meant for PvE players - it is an armor that is meant only for the very small subset of PvE community. Which, of course, means, that a huge majority of PvE players do not have "their" armor at all.

 

That is a problem with calling Envoy set the PvE armor. It's just something that attempts to hide the fact that huge a majority of this game's players don't have a legendary armor meant for them. Because Envoy set is not that.

Question:

Why would these casuals even care about legendary armor?

[Vidit.7108]

14 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

 

 

The raiders I know wouldn't even care if you could buy legy armor in the gemstore. Personally, I don't care either.

My question is, how much does Anet have to spend to please everyone?
As someone who joined gw2 later, I want all the stuff you got for free before me please.
And I have a friend who plays raids-only who wouldn't mind if everything we PVE players have is available in raids. Because, you write, PVE would lag behind, where in fact, Anet provides 90% if not more content, only for PVE players ...

I don't remember anything in game that was free for me that costs in-game money right now. There were things that were easy to get that are "rewards" now like the Gift of Battle and Mystic Coins though.
If you mean the living world episodes, you're getting those now. Even still if you think having to pay for those is a loss to you, I paid for the base game and HoT at full price when they came out. So from my perspective if you bought PoF recently you got for free $120 worth of things that I purchased.

[Astralporing.1957]

14 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Question:

Why would these casuals even care about legendary armor?

Why wouldn't they?

Hint: you might be surprised, but a lot of players care about legendaries for visuals, not for the utility. And even for casuals the utility is still nice.

 

I personally have quite a number of legendaries, and yet i don't care (well, "actively dislike" would be even more closer to the truth) about raids or any high-difficulty content at all. I just like collecting stuff i guess.

 

Yes, i did obtain the raid armor set. It was a painful experience i would not wish on anyone else. Some people may like that kind of content, but trying to push into it the players that do not like it is something that should not happen.

 

I'll give a different question though:

Why do the raiders care if casuals can get an access to a (different than theirs) legendary armor set?

Edited July 14, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Xerac.1542]

11 minutes ago, hash.8462 said:

TY for the answer Xerac;

By the way I've already done my armors so I don't need it (I play all non raid PvE and WvW), I've stopped to play raids because of the toxicity of players, also against their own guildmates with heavy insults and so on resulting in friends that left the game, and in these years nothing seems to have changed as far I can hear in discord from my guildmates...

I support the introduction of a new armor just because I think "open" pve deserve it, but it don't need to be easy to get or cheap (it should be an hellish nightmare so as not to get into contention with the other ones).

 

I only PuG on EU and as everywhere you mostly get good groups with no drama and simple clears, but the bad encounters stay present much longer. 

Sorry for your experiences. 

 

I don't mind if the legendary non-raid armor is simply a grindfest as the weapons are. I was never bothered to do them because of map completion. That is some elitist stuff. 

[Vidit.7108]

12 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Question:

Why would these casuals even care about legendary armor?

They just gave them free transmutation and the ability to share the armor across all your characters