Venting about timers in Lake Doric

[Vayne.8563]

This has been a pretty bad week in game for me.  I have multiple accounts and I've been doing the Season of the Dragons meta on all of them.  And it's been pretty good so far.  But I'm also looking at certain achievements like Cin Business which requires you to kill three bosses, that are linked to attacks on different towns across the map.  For example when Harvest Cascade is attacked, Immelhoof is supposed to spawn. I use timers because these things are supposed to be on timers and I just can't sit around and wait and hope I get what I need. Not when so much of this zone and this week is on timers. 

Because the white mantle owned Harvest Cascade, there was an event to take it back just before it was scheduled to appear on the timer.  I'm not sure if those developing the game realize this but staring at a screen waiting for stuff to happen isn't fun and sometimes it's not possible. People do have lives. They have kids. They have spouses. They have pets.  They get phone calls.  If I have an accurate timer, I know when I need to be back, but sitting there waiting, only to have the boss I need spawn BEFORE it's supposed to spawn according to the timer is not fun.  This is the second time I missed the event in a row, the first time due to real life but the second time due to the timer being off.  Because immelhoof and the retaking harvest cascade event didn't spawn at all.

 

I had been under the impression that even if you take a city, the attack will still spawn on time. I mean what's the point of even having timers if they're wrong?  This sort of thing turns me off from the game. There are plenty of annoying things in the zone, but this is, to me, the absolute worst.

I kindly request that in the future, if you're going to have events in the timer, those events should spawn at the anticipated time or don't put them on the timer at all. There's no reason to have events on a timer if they're not going to spawn.  I feel cheated out of my evening, pointlessly waiting for something I didn't get done.  I suppose I'm supposed to come back and wait tomorrow as well.

 

Lake Doric has to be the most frustrating zone in the entire game.  I usually feel like this game respects my time.  Tonight really makes me want to skip this achievement and just walk away.

[Cyninja.2954]

1 misconception here:

You assume this map was created with the intent for players to rush through, collect all the goodies and then never return.

 

You are not supposed to get all the achievements in a few days. Remember: when this map was released, there was a couple of months before the next living world episode. The developers created achievements around their expectation that players will play on this map for weeks.

 

The fact one can brute force and be done with all the achievements within a few hours/days is actually a design flaw.

 

Now given the shorter time period nature of the return episodes, not all of these things will align perfectly. That's because players are now trying to cram content/achievements designed around weeks into days.

 

I played the map back when it released and last week. It was no more or less frustrating than any of the other maps, in fact it was far less frustrating than Bitterfrost Frontier, which had far more things to work through, especially the meta event. Then again, I played for weeks on this map and not days, and eventually got everything done.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Vayne.8563]

1 minute ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

1 misconception here:

You assume this map was created with the intent for players to rush through, collect all the goodies and then never return.

 

You are not supposed to get all the achievements in a few days. Remember: when this map was released, there was a couple of months before the next living world episode. The developers created achievements around their expectation that players will play on this map for weeks.

 

The fact one can brute force and be done with all the achievements with a few hours/days is actually a design flaw.

 

Now given the shorter time period nature of the return episodes, not all of these things will align perfectly. That's because players are now trying to cram content/achievements designed around weeks into days.

Sure. but it's Anet scheduling each chapter to be a week.  Which isn't really enough time to explore the zone for a lot of people I would guess. And because of the way the flow of traffic moves, people will be encouraged to get it done fast. 

 

You're right of course. Which doesn't mean the timers shouldn't be accurate.  One thing really has nothing to do with another. Sure if I had two months till the next chapter of the living world this wouldn't be a big deal.  But you know, I don't, and it is. That is, my feelings are valid, whether Anet designed the zone one way or not. And timers should be accurate whether I have the time or not. 

I'm not seeing any argument in what you said to suggest that timers shouldn't be accurate.

[AgentMoore.9453]

The timing of these bosses (and several other events here) was always quite annoying to me, so I feel that. It's true that these achievements are here to stay and so there technically isn't a time limit on them, but it just brings back the unpleasant memories of my first encounters with the map.

 

It isn't even that I'm not willing to spend time in Lake Doric, it's just a very chaotic place to be and apart from the peach tree, I feel like there are very few places where I can stand and appreciate where I am for longer than half a second. From death meteors falling from the sky (Anti-AFK measure on the leather farm) to White Mantle Mesmers and Knights, you're always running to or from somewhere or something and that, coupled with the whackadoodle 'maybe you'll get the thing you need, maybe you won't' nature of the events there, just adds to that weariness.

 

So it's fine, functionally, it could just be better. So too, I think, could a lot of maps that ArenaNet has moved on from.

[Cyninja.2954]

7 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Sure. but it's Anet scheduling each chapter to be a week.  Which isn't really enough time to explore the zone for a lot of people I would guess. And because of the way the flow of traffic moves, people will be encouraged to get it done fast. 

Sure, but let's not get into the topic of how much better it would have been to extend the time per episode, which ultimately would have lead to a delay of the expansion.

 

Quote

You're right of course. Which doesn't mean the timers shouldn't be accurate.  One thing really has nothing to do with another. Sure if I had two months till the next chapter of the living world this wouldn't be a big deal.  But you know, I don't, and it is. That is, my feelings are valid, whether Anet designed the zone one way or not. And timers should be accurate whether I have the time or not. 

I'm not seeing any argument in what you said to suggest that timers shouldn't be accurate.

 

I'm not trying to argue, just posting an alternative perspective. I fully get the frustration one might experience when pressured, be it via in game limitations or personal goals, into completing something.

 

Back when these maps were being introduced, there was intentional new designs being tested into how to implement content with many different approaches to meta events and reward structure. I do agree that Lake Doric was not the most successful implementation, given the map tied time events (this could be addressed with some kind of visual representation when the next event will be up again, if not on the hud via an NPC).

 

That said, I'd recommend to just take it a bit easier. The map will not be dead once this week is over. It will see play as it has in the past, especially during daily rotation and I am quite sure it will see a lot of activity again once the expansion launches and many players return. If an achievement is frustrating you, just come back to it a while later I'd say.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Vayne.8563]

2 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Sure, but let's not get into the topic of how much better it would have been to extend the time per episode, which ultimately would have lead to a delay of the expansion.

 

 

I'm not trying to argue, just posting an alternative perspective. I fully get the frustration one might experience when pressured, be it via in game limitations or personal goals, into completing something.

 

Back when these maps were being introduced, there was intentional new designs being tested into how to implement content with many different approaches to meta events and reward structure. I do agree that Lake Doric was not the most successful implementation, given the map tied time events (this could be addressed with some kind of visual representation when the next event will be up again, if not on the hud via an NPC).

 

That said, I'd recommend to just take it a bit easier. The map will not be dead once this week is over. It will see play as it has in the past, especially during daily rotation and I am quite sure it will see a lot of activity again once the expansion launches and many players return. If an achievement is frustrating you, just come back to it a while later I'd say.

The point is I'm past caring about it, and probably won't do it again, because I won't throw good time after bad. I'll just not play it. I'll take a break for a couple of days and play a lot less, because this kind of frustration isn't fun. I'm guessing I'm not the only one frustrated this week, either.  

 

There are always frustrating things in any MMO.  But something as basic as an event spawning at a timer that's provided by the API is pretty basic. And when do I show up next time, if the timers are out anyway? Should I sit and stare at my screen waiting. Take the phone off the hook.  Ignore my wife, just in case this guy spawns when I happen to be looking the other way?  Nah. I'd rather not go through the hassle.

 

[Vayne.8563]

8 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

The timing of these bosses (and several other events here) was always quite annoying to me, so I feel that. It's true that these achievements are here to stay and so there technically isn't a time limit on them, but it just brings back the unpleasant memories of my first encounters with the map.

 

It isn't even that I'm not willing to spend time in Lake Doric, it's just a very chaotic place to be and apart from the peach tree, I feel like there are very few places where I can stand and appreciate where I am for longer than half a second. From death meteors falling from the sky (Anti-AFK measure on the leather farm) to White Mantle Mesmers and Knights, you're always running to or from somewhere or something and that, coupled with the whackadoodle 'maybe you'll get the thing you need, maybe you won't' nature of the events there, just adds to that weariness.

 

So it's fine, functionally, it could just be better. So too, I think, could a lot of maps that ArenaNet has moved on from.

Yeah, when Anet added the siege to the leather farm as a way to combat farmers, I was done with the leather far, which was one of my favorite things about the zone.  It's a bit of a shame because there are bits and pieces I like in the zone. But the rest of the zone annoys the kitten out of me.

[Dante.1763]

Just now, Vayne.8563 said:

The point is I'm past caring about it, and probably won't do it again, because I won't throw good time after bad. I'll just not play it. I'll take a break for a couple of days and play a lot less, because this kind of frustration isn't fun. I'm guessing I'm not the only one frustrated this week, either.  

 

There are always frustrating things in any MMO.  But something as basic as an event spawning at a timer that's provided by the API is pretty basic. And when do I show up next time, if the timers are out anyway? Should I sit and stare at my screen waiting. Take the phone off the hook.  Ignore my wife, just in case this guy spawns when I happen to be looking the other way?  Nah. I'd rather not go through the hassle.

 

I will disagree in part, even the popular meta like HOT are..well pretty dead. Not during the meta of course. But the pre events? Good luck. Took me near a week and a half of trying to get groups together for some of the champs/legendaries out in Auric Basin. The new expansion is going to make it worse for a long time.

 

ive given up on getting some of the POF achievements. Nobody runs those bosses anymore and the maps are incredibly barren.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I wonder how many players need to complete the achievements in one week for 11 accounts.  Might be a bit outside the norm.  🤷‍♂️

[Cuks.8241]

I dont think Anet provides timers, its just what player assume by the best of their ability. Could be wrong. 

[Vayne.8563]

1 minute ago, Dante.1763 said:

I will disagree in part, even the popular meta like HOT are..well pretty dead. Not during the meta of course. But the pre events? Good luck. Took me near a week and a half of trying to get groups together for some of the champs/legendaries out in Auric Basin. The new expansion is going to make it worse for a long time.

 

ive given up on getting some of the POF achievements. Nobody runs those bosses anymore and the maps are incredibly barren.

There are no pre-events to the meta in HoT anymore.  Anet decoupled night from day years ago when they "fixed" HoT and as a result, there's no real reason to do the day events unless you're farming currency or keys or need achievements.   I still can get groups for pretty much any of them, though, and occasionally have done them with people in my guild who need mastery points. So no, I don't think HoT is dead.  And I'm in Season 3 and 4 often enough to know that they're not dead either. 

It's not that I don't think I'll be able to get the events done next week or next month. I'm simply not willing to wait on a timer only to not have an event spawn. That's really my issue. That's frustrating.

[Vayne.8563]

1 minute ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

I wonder how many players need to complete the achievements in one week for 11 accounts.  Might be a bit outside the norm.  🤷‍♂️

Well I have a guy in my guild who works full time. And he has 1 account. It takes him about the same amount of time with his schedule to get one account down as it takes me to get all my accounts done.  Which means if he had this experience he'd be in the same boat and probably just as angry.  Timers should work no matter how many accounts I have. 🙂

[Vayne.8563]

2 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I dont think Anet provides timers, its just what player assume by the best of their ability. Could be wrong. 

The timers are provided by the API which is provided by Anet.  Sites use the API to make timer sites. If the times weren't in the API, you'd be right, but they are.

[Dante.1763]

11 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

There are no pre-events to the meta in HoT anymore.  Anet decoupled night from day years ago when they "fixed" HoT and as a result, there's no real reason to do the day events unless you're farming currency or keys or need achievements.   I still can get groups for pretty much any of them, though, and occasionally have done them with people in my guild who need mastery points. So no, I don't think HoT is dead.  And I'm in Season 3 and 4 often enough to know that they're not dead either. 

It's not that I don't think I'll be able to get the events done next week or next month. I'm simply not willing to wait on a timer only to not have an event spawn. That's really my issue. That's frustrating.

I mean the pre events, the events that show up before the meta happens. Yes it was for achievements, HOPE achievevements specifically.

 

I do agree about events not spawning when they are supposed to. Working on legendary collections reinforced that.

 

And i guess thats the thing, im concerned due to my experiences in the last month about older maps to the point that im making sure to snag these revisit achievements when they are active that week. Simply because ive had so many issues getting events done on older maps.

 

I do agree with you that if a timer is present it should be spawning on time with the timer theyve provided.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Dante.1763

[Farohna.6247]

Agree that the timers are a bit difficult and less precise that other maps.  However, haven't had any difficulty knocking out all the achievements, have two left in personal story, and I typically play for about two hours daily.  Perhaps just fortunate on being on good maps at the right time.  Multiple accounts would be a special case.  Most maps have been kind at calling out events and commanders have been most helpful.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I'm a little confused.  What timed event is needed for Seasons of the Dragons in Lake Doric?

The Harathi High Sage event spawns approximately 1 1/2 hours after last completion, (starting at reset), so variable (except at reset).

Cin Business has nothing to do with 'Return to Lake Doric'.

 

I understand you are concerned about timers, but the week time limit has nothing to do with the events that are on timers, other than the High Sage (which isn't a timed event using the API). 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Inculpatus cedo.9234

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

7 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

around their expectation that players will play on this map for weeks.

mostly because of bugs.

the maps were always a 1 or maybe 2 day job if not the events are bugged.

[Khisanth.2948]

7 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

There are always frustrating things in any MMO.  But something as basic as an event spawning at a timer that's provided by the API is pretty basic. And when do I show up next time, if the timers are out anyway? Should I sit and stare at my screen waiting. Take the phone off the hook.  Ignore my wife, just in case this guy spawns when I happen to be looking the other way?  Nah. I'd rather not go through the hassle.

but the API doesn't provide any timer ...

 

There were ways(if an event went from active to inactive then you know it just finished) to calculate a timer for some events back before megaserver through event status but that is no longer possible since the release of megaserver.

[Vayne.8563]

9 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

I'm a little confused.  What timed event is needed for Seasons of the Dragons in Lake Doric?

The Harathi High Sage event spawns approximately 1 1/2 hours after last completion, (starting at reset), so variable (except at reset).

Cin Business has nothing to do with 'Return to Lake Doric'.

 

I understand you are concerned about timers, but the week time limit has nothing to do with the events that are on timers, other than the High Sage (which isn't a timed event using the API). 

I didn't say anything about Season of the Dragons other than I  was working on it, but also some other things.  Cin Business gives you an eater for some of the mats that I get on other accounts that I may not ever make use of.  I went for that because I wanted it. Obviously, this has nothing to do with Season of Dragons. Season of Dragons is simply why I decided to do it now.

 

[Vayne.8563]

2 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

but the API doesn't provide any timer ...

 

There were ways(if an event went from active to inactive then you know it just finished) to calculate a timer for some events back before megaserver through event status but that is no longer possible since the release of megaserver.

The api offers, to my knowledge anyway, a schedule of timed world bosses. The timer site uses the API to read those times. The API dont' offer a timer itself just a schedule that can be read by fan made timers. If I'm wrong about that I'd be happy to eat it, but I'm pretty sure that's the case. 

 

World bosses appear at a specific time and that information is in the API.  

[Zohane.7208]

7 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

The api offers, to my knowledge anyway, a schedule of timed world bosses. The timer site uses the API to read those times. The API dont' offer a timer itself just a schedule that can be read by fan made timers. If I'm wrong about that I'd be happy to eat it, but I'm pretty sure that's the case. 

 

World bosses appear at a specific time and that information is in the API.  

Would you happen to have some more information on this, @Vayne.8563? I've looked and can't find any such time/schedule information in any API documentation.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

You might ask the editors that put the widgets in the Wiki.  That's where you will find the Event Timers (among other sites). 

[Vayne.8563]

31 minutes ago, Zohane.7208 said:

Would you happen to have some more information on this, @Vayne.8563? I've looked and can't find any such time/schedule information in any API documentation.

Each boss spawns with the event.  The event timer in the wiki is under ET or Event Timer. If you type /wiki ET from anywhere in the game it will be in the event timer.

Queenslayer spawns during the Loamhurst defense event.  Agatha appears during the Defend Saidra's Haven event. And Immeholf appears during the Defend Harvest Cascade event (or maybe it's Noran's Homstead, which is in Harvest Cascade). Those are the only three events on a timer in LS Season 3.

[Vayne.8563]

7 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

You might ask the editors that put the widgets in the Wiki.  That's where you will find the Event Timers (among other sites). 

Not really sure how that would help. 

[Zohane.7208]

6 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

Each boss spawns with the event.  The event timer in the wiki is under ET or Event Timer. If you type /wiki ET from anywhere in the game it will be in the event timer.

Queenslayer spawns during the Loamhurst defense event.  Agatha appears during the Defend Saidra's Haven event. And Immeholf appears during the Defend Harvest Cascade event (or maybe it's Noran's Homstead, which is in Harvest Cascade). Those are the only three events on a timer in LS Season 3.

I wasn't looking for some arbitrary event information, I meant "do you have any information about what API call would return such information?" - that's the point of interest for me. If I can find an API call to do this I could build myself some interesting tools...