Do we really need Tier 2 Fractal ?

[Ryuk.6840]

Don't get me wrong , is good for progression , but do we really need it ?

 

Its like :

Oh a tree ....  car goes "brrrrrr" after 2 sec

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Ryuk.6840

[Adhesive Gamin.2854]

It's an unsolvable problem. If they remove tier 2 fractals, tier 3 will then naturally become tier 2, and we'll be right back where we started.

[Ryuk.6840]

Yeah i understand that 😞

But Tier 1 is fornew players  , Tier 3 is for casual runs , while T4 is ..well T4 .

It becomes  a pain to lvl up , sometimes

 

Maybe spread them out every 33 lvl and some become a "special category" (20-33 lvl) that rotates daily and they don't need AR , but they have scaled down MANY  combos of Instabilities ,of the combo changes after each boss  ?

Edited July 30, 2021 by Ryuk.6840

[Fueki.4753]

Yes, it is needed.

 

T1 is the introduction level.

T2 is the easy to medium level, which introduces all the mechanics (as far as I am ware) that have been left out of T1, like having to use the crystals to power the fan for Old Tom.

T3 is for decent to good players.

T4 is for the top end maximum performance oriented players.

 

[Nephalem.8921]

19 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Yes, it is needed.

 

T1 is the introduction level.

T2 is the easy to medium level, which introduces all the mechanics (as far as I am ware) that have been left out of T1, like having to use the crystals to power the fan for Old Tom.

T3 is for decent to good players.

T4 is for the top end maximum performance oriented players.

 

T1 is an introduction to instanced content. Very easy to solo.

T2 is still very easy and adds very few mechanics in even fewer places.

T3 is casual difficulty for players that use somewhat decent builds and read their traits and skills.

T4 is casual grind for players with good builds. You dont have to look on your screen either with a team composition that does not consist of 5 viper or berserker weavers.

 

Not even cms require even close to top end or maximum performance. With current powercreep a t5 or t6 is required. The tiers are mostly gear and build checks. Only 98, 99 and 100 cm alter mechanics in a meaningful way.

 

T2 and T3 are both not really needed.

[Fueki.4753]

57 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

T1 is an introduction to instanced content. Very easy to solo.

T2 is still very easy and adds very few mechanics in even fewer places.

T3 is casual difficulty for players that use somewhat decent builds and read their traits and skills.

T4 is casual grind for players with good builds. You dont have to look on your screen either with a team composition that does not consist of 5 viper or berserker weavers.

 

Not even cms require even close to top end or maximum performance. With current powercreep a t5 or t6 is required. The tiers are mostly gear and build checks. Only 98, 99 and 100 cm alter mechanics in a meaningful way.

 

T2 and T3 are both not really needed.

Just because some people near the top end of the skill level curve feel T2 and T3 are too easy, doesn't mean that's an accurate opinion regarding the overall playerbase. If anything, it indicates that those top end players are quite out of touch with the majority of players.

 

Average players, who make up the majority of the player base, are likely to struggle quite a bit in some of the T3 fractals.

I've been seen many people in T3 who struggled with the difficulty, while I've seen not so many others who breezes through T3 with ease.

 

Since skill level is not only split between beginners and top end players, but is a curve, every tier we have is objectively necessary to appeal to as many players as possible.

[Fuchslein.8639]

I personally find and have always found that t4 is easier than t3. But that's probably because you find more organized groups in t4.

 

Otherwise, I see also no reason to remove t2. Especially because it is also loot for t4'ler xD.

I think T1 is more about showing people what to expect and letting them see if it's worth it to work on AR and Asc. And T2 is then the real easy-mode of the fractals.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Fuchslein.8639

[artharon.9276]

yes.

[Vidit.7108]

I'm someone who does a lot of weekly fractals so I see the lower tiers often. Here is my assessment:
T4 Got easier in recent years primarily because build diversity increased and role options became better. (HFB and AlacRen namely). Player dps improved with more access to stun breaks and stability and just greater awareness of mechanics. Better support options lowered generally the amount of self-sustain people brought. Some of the less obvious strategies became better known through the grape vine.
T1 This remains the introduction and is still pretty important. Frankly player skill varies a LOT more here. Some people play their class well and once they learn the basic mechanics are ready for t3 or t4. Others are recent level 80s and that doesn't go too well sometimes.
T2. Introducing instabs in this tier is a smart idea but it has two drawbacks, there is less to learn in t2 and fights are mostly the same they just added one instab. Meanwhile you still get players avoiding important harder fractals like nightmare because they don't have enough AR and didn't have any back in t1 so they skipped them. At least that's what it seems like happens to a lot of players. The T1s of the last few fractals are not all that great at teaching you their mechanics still, at least not in the way other easier fractals do, and that's had repercussions on the players we get in later tiers. Players can still make mistakes here and die and it won't be too big a problem for the rest of the group.
T3 is where there are problems. On paper this is the middle tier, kind of. (Middle because of 2 instabs out of 3 max in t4) But the bosses seem to have pretty close to the amount of hp they have in t4 just one less instab and sometimes don't have the mechanics that are in t4 ( for example I think sirens should have it's death bombs here). What players learn here is bad habits are enough to pass sometimes. This tier really needs healers but a lot of them aren't going to stick around, they'll go to t4 even if they don't know what they're doing. You can do them without healers sure, if everything else is going right. And that's a big "if" with who turns up in PUGs.
People can get away with not knowing your class or the fractal mechanics in t2 and when they're in t3 they can still get away with it but the fractals are harder and take longer as a result. When I heal here, players run outside my range because not getting protection or quickness or heals was no big deal before. When they die the rest of the team carries the run, it ends up taking more time. I get healbrands here who don't bring quickness because they think they're there to heal and nothing else, or worse think they sustain aegis by spamming Retreat. Classes who usually bring a group support skill in t4 sometimes don't in t3 because they don't know the skills they don't use in open world. Or they copied a build on meta battle and don't understand when they're supposed to use a skill during a fractal. Even in t4 I run into alac Rens that are actually just power Rens. All of this makes t3 more of a challenge to do for a weeklies, players there get unreliable and dip out, and sometimes they're also jerks.
I think maybe t3 needs to be split in half and added to t4 and t2 but I don't know if that's going to fix the problem, there is a drought of good players in t3 and I think it kind of holds players back from progressing. But a lot of them seem to just dive into t4 anyway. After all any dps is probably good enough to clear t4 now.
Some people think though this is no big deal, I think they're complacent. We are always one patch from the meta being shaken up and going back to two hour t4 runs. People say big dps is easy to learn or healbrand makes things easy but I remember when we brought druids and those aren't around here anymore. I don't see spellbreakers in t4 anymore, thieves are in short supply even though they have great cc and skips. Ask an engy what being in fractals was like for them before PoF. Anet balances the PvE classes for raids and not fractals and so we're one step away from this conversation about t2 being irrelevant if all the fractals get harder.

[ArchonWing.9480]

I'm always amazed on how people think content that they surpassed (or never needed) is no longer necessary for anyone else. It's like me saying "why do we need ascended armor? I already have legendary armors for all weights."

 

It's not you alone that's playing the game, lol.

Edited August 8, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Janitsu.6284]

Does the existence of T2 affect you in any meaningful way?

[Bakeneko.5826]

On 7/30/2021 at 5:16 PM, Ryuk.6840 said:

Don't get me wrong , is good for progression , but do we really need it ?

 

Its like :

Oh a tree ....  car goes "brrrrrr" after 2 sec

 

 

yes, it eases player into whole fractal run, it has almost all mechanics at low dmg to teach players, it introduces instabs and what they do, how to counter or avoid them individually without headache of trying to learn them while they are clustered with other instabs. T1 is introduction into fractals - nothing hard, no major mechanics. T2 - most mechanics are present at low damage, introduction to instabs. T3 - introduction to multiple instabs, close to max dmg on mechanics with lower range/intensity. T4 - the way fractals were meant to play.

[Wolfb.7025]

T1 is a friendly introduction to fractals.

T2 is basically the last chance you get to learn mechanics without much punishment if you fail to do them.

T3 difficulty curve skyrockets and serves as a "wake-up call boss" for unprepared and clueless players that still think they can continue tanking through every mechanic like in T1 and T2.

T4 is the maximum difficulty of fractals and the one with heavy punishing mechanics that have to be dealt with at the same time of having high hp and damage enemies that requires decent amount of dps (and ironically, its easier than T3 since all the experienced players plays there).

[Lasky.9017]

As a newer player, once again returning from a long break, I just reached the capability of T2 and I'm loving it. I'm starting to see ascended gear drops, and I feel like I can run fractuls to meaningfully gear up.

 

However, after reading this thread I worry, because most players blitz through runs so quickly that I'm not learning very much. Bear with me when I make T3 lol

Edited December 22, 2022 by Lasky.9017
Typo

[Fueki.4753]

5 hours ago, Lasky.9017 said:

However, after reading this thread I worry, because most players blitz through runs so quickly that I'm not learning very much. Bear with me when I make T3 lol

You can always join a Guild or other type of community that is willing to go slow and teach you.

Also, you can list your own group in the LFG and add the comment that you want to learn the fractals, not rush them.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Fueki.4753