Why is this even possible?

[Grand Marshal.4098]

9 hours ago, displayname.8315 said:

You should be getting off a few attacks at least while you blow everything you have at the start of a fight like that.  Which you shouldn't really need to do. 

 

So what class are you talking about, nothing with stability involved, some kind of reflect or projectile nullification?  If that's the case what are you playing something that relies on evade skills or stealth? 

I'd say that the problem with ranger is at this point very well known and accepted outside the Soulbeast community. 

 

Solemn is a very capable Elementalist. You should check him out on YT. I'd take his word on this matter. It's nonsense for an ele with the utility of a focus and whatever spec they are on, to be unable to still counter the truly endless burst of a ranger. 

 

And since I enjoy playing melee warrior I know that I cannot block and close the gap quick enough for me to get up close to the ranger and fight them. They swoop and GS3 to reposition and start pew pew again. Smokescale can give on demand stealth, they got LB3 and they got the super versatile GS block cc combo. By far one of the best weapon skills in the game imo. 

[LetoII.3782]

On 8/18/2021 at 7:26 PM, diomache.9246 said:

Does it? Which class does 28k damage in 5 second window?

Literally all of them.

Necro has a place in wvw, roaming isn't it.

[Shroud.2307]

I'm pretty sure the point of this 9 page long thread is that OP experienced a bug wherein upon dismount the follow up damage during those frames resulted in being insta-downed.

I've had this happen as well, but only once. I don't know exactly how to recreate it or what causes it, but in my case it was being hit by a Thief's Shadow Shot and the follow up Heartseeker as I was mid-dismount downed me. There was no way to stunbreak or react because I was still mid-frame where skills are unusable. For what ever reason, it seems that when this happens your health (and possibly armor as well) are greatly reduced, possibly being shared with the Mount.

Putting a spoiler on the following because I don't think the OP was intended to be a discussion about Ranger, but I'd like to add my two cents anyway.
 

Spoiler

As for all those complaining about Ranger, I'm still of the opinion that the damage of Soulbeast is fine, it's the durability of it that needs to be changed. It is far too hard to pressure or punish a Soulbeast when things like; Troll Unguent, Bear Stance, Dolyak Stance, Counter Attack, Swoop, Smoke Assault, etc. exist.
I'd be perfectly okay with Soulbeast being able to blast through my health from a football field away if it meant reacting to it properly would ensure I could punish them. But because of the defenses they have, that isn't the case.

I think it's good that Soulbeast can do the damage it can because it means people playing Minstrel builds don't get to walk around with impunity. Of course it also means that less defensive builds will get completely deleted if they're not paying attention, but that just goes back to my previous point. Reacting to it properly should mean you can punish them for it.

The following is very much an apples and oranges thing, so I'm not trying to compare classes here, just giving an example of why I think the damage isn't the issue.
I often play zerk core Engineer with Grenade Kit. Anything with less than 20k health I can 1 shot with Grenade Barrage. I also have various skills that do high enough damage to 2 - 3 shot (again, depending on the defenses of my target). To do this kind of damage though, I need to sacrifice literally every form of defense. I have x1 Block, x1 Stunbreak, and x1 Cleanse from Cleansing Sigil. I die if someone spits at me when I've used one or two of those things, but if I play well I can still compete just due to sheer damage output.
That's what I think Soulbeast should be. Ranger can be the versatile hunter with potential for very high sustain and durability as well as good but not outstanding damage. Druid can be the moderate - low damage dealer with great small group support and extremely high resustain. And Soulbeast can be the damage dealer, like what Berserker is for Warrior. Colossal damage potential, be it Power or Condition, at the cost of defense.

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Shroud.2307

[displayname.8315]

7 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Solemn is a very capable Elementalist.

Is he that guy named Solemn Roamer?  Very surprised as an ele he's having that much trouble with pew-pew.  Is he running no utility or something?  I mean armor of earth, mist form, lighting portal.  The cantrip trait should be used IMO.  With those traited you have stability, protection, 2 stun breaks, invulnerability, gap closer, vigor, regen.  Scepter focus or staff if tempest, maybe staff and earth pet if ele.

 

If you'r talking about weaver then yeah they are just a DPS burst, but they make up for it with all the evade skills.  I haven't played with it... i don't like the new combo's that come with attunement weaving they seemed kinda lame to me.

 

I'm sure he knows you can swap attunment at any time, while channeling skills, while dodging.  During a single dodge you can swap to earth and pop a magnetic aura before the frames even complete.  While channeling a meteor shower you can go into earth and be aura'd up in a split second.

Edited August 20, 2021 by displayname.8315

[Shroud.2307]

7 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Solemn is a very capable Elementalist. I'd take his word on this matter.

Yeah, no.

Capable, maybe. But this is the person that wants everything that isn't Ele to be nerfed because anything that counters him or gives him trouble is OP. Being good doesn't mean you understand balance.  

Not disagreeing about the Ranger debate, but I really recommend against listening to this person when it comes to these discussions.

[displayname.8315]

17 minutes ago, Shroud.2307 said:

Not disagreeing about the Ranger debate

Rangers are so visible tho.  I think people just don't get the severity of projectiles.  It's hard to tell your getting rained on by say mortar kits unless you're the type to go into your combat logs or you have a keen eye.  Grenades can be even worse.

 

So many groups i see playing never have engi domes or guardian shield bubbles firing when they go to push, but that is a more nuanced aspect of comp play.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

47 minutes ago, Shroud.2307 said:

Yeah, no.

Capable, maybe. But this is the person that wants everything that isn't Ele to be nerfed because anything that counters him or gives him trouble is OP. Being good doesn't mean you understand balance.  

Not disagreeing about the Ranger debate, but I really recommend against listening to this person when it comes to these discussions.

I was referring to the ranger debate and how maybe there was a L2P issue involved but I simply said there probably wasn't. 

 

They also complained about stun lock warrior and as a warrior main who tried this build, ik for a fact it's very bad and yes, it deals no dmg! Maybe I can kill a core Necro, but can I kill any Renegade roamer with it? No! 

 

I'm not a big fan of the ranger burst-sustain combo is all myself, when something of similar output (Berserker) is glassier and far less capable than a Ranger. 

[displayname.8315]

53 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I'm not a big fan of the ranger burst-sustain combo is all myself, when something of similar output (Berserker) is glassier and far less capable than a Ranger.

Maybe if your talking 5v5's.  In a 1v1 good warrior probably running shield with reflect trait, and a good ranger hmm I'd probably bet on the warrior.  If it's Hadi that would be probably be 10:1 odds.

 

Actual WvW fights like 15-20+ warrior does more work.

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by displayname.8315

[Grand Marshal.4098]

20 minutes ago, displayname.8315 said:

Maybe if your talking 5v5's.  In a 1v1 good warrior probably running shield with reflect trait, and a good ranger hmm I'd probably bet on the warrior.  If it's Hadi that would be probably be 10:1 odds.

 

Actual WvW fights like 15-20+ warrior does more work.

 

1v1 is far more manageable. 

 

The whole discussion here from my point of view is those skirmishes that happen between SM and the keeps where a ranger can outrage most peeps and is basically far more efficient than most other roamers in the scene. 

 

My Zerker with reflects had an astoundingly better chance against a particularly skilled Soulbeast I dueled with in South SM (don't remember the account name) than a strength spellbreaker. Only issue with Zerker and defense is that outside B Mode, adrenal health won't proc and as a result you become too reliant to your burst which can be easily kited by a decent Soulbeast. 

 

Ofc Hadi is a super skilled warrior who I respect in the WvW scene so I got no doubt he can manage. Even I can kill Soulbeasts! 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Grand Marshal.4098

[displayname.8315]

54 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

those skirmishes that happen between SM and the keeps where a ranger can outrage most peeps and is basically far more efficient than most other roamers in the scene. 

Yep that's where you find most of the rangers, waiting for those 5v5 opportunites or just anything they can snipe.  They can defend those walls ok unless a good focus mesmer is with you.  A firebrand will shut down any projectiles and should be buffing the cat out of anyone who pushes with them.  Mostly its just those quick little hits when people are solo or out of position that gets people mad cuz.. yeah

 

As a whole in WvW they have some use when following zergs.

 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

3 hours ago, Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:

lol what? You can't be serious with that comment. Somebody that uses a cheese build is not skilled. They are being carried by the game. but that's how it is in gw2 isnt' it? You can get instant skill from metabattle and well the class anet has built to be an overpowered boon bot. I suppose next youre going to say quickcry is a skilled ranger. ROFL.

I mean they make good decisions while kiting and have good synergies in their builds. The enemy quality is not of the best tier ofc, but I don't rly care whether someone is a god in a class or not. I simply respect decent gameplay and put my 2 cents in the way someone plays my main class. I don't know the wvw scene in NA, but Hadi's vids have popped up on my feed and they are not bad. Ofc that's subjective to a degree but meh. My point here is: ranger has too many escape buttons attached to it's kit for it's dmg. The dmg can stay, so long as something is done about the soulbeast traits that synergize with their sustain.

[Chorazin.4107]

I think that Mag player is hacking, like most Mag players, it's either hacks or Clowns fault. Im leaning more towards Clown being at fault here.