Legendary armor is... Locked for some people.

[Astralporing.1957]

5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

He doesn't need to and he proved the understanding of that fairly well in this post:

Yes. Precisely. Both you and him did prove that you do not understand what that term means. You should look that up as well, i guess.

 

BTW: That quote you linked is funny as well, because the situation described lacks some crucial information: that at this point the required qualification (and the only qualification) for that IT position is golf club membership.

 

Hint: there's no connection between method to obtain envoy armor, and the armor itself. The method is completely arbitrary and has nothing to do with the reward.

[Xanadrine.4352]

10 minutes ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

There's no way to offer envoy armor to non-raiders in a way that wouldn't devalue it other than people saving gold and dropping the thousands of gold required to pay for clears. Anything else will be an insult. 

 

EDIT: I actually HATE that you can buy your way to envoy armor. You should HAVE to do the content and be GOOD at it. I'd say it's TOO accessible. 

There you go again ...do you call wvw envoy armor? Not asking for envoy. Good grief you keep harping back to this, and again discounting everything else. Do you feel the same about the wvw set too? Honestly its a bit hypocritical at this point.

[Sobx.1758]

15 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes. Precisely. Both you and him did prove that you do not understand what that term means. You should look that up as well, i guess.

 

BTW: That quote you linked is funny as well, because the situation described lacks some crucial information: that at this point the required qualification (and the only qualification) for that IT position is golf club membership.

 

Hint: there's no connection between method to obtain envoy armor, and the armor itself. The method is completely arbitrary and has nothing to do with the reward.

There is a connection, at the very least where the devs wanted to reward players for playing aspirational content that requires grouping and cooperation. Just like in the quoted post you think is "funny" for some reason: just because "you made an effort in a certain field", it doesn't automatically mean you're a perfect fit for every field you want "because I've put an effort". That's not what equality of opportunity means. There's no misunderstanding here on my or his part as far as I see.

At this point it's just an effort to use it as a catchy phrase that has little to do with the facts or its actual meaning.

 

Aaand can't forget that in the end what we're talking about here is a reward system in the game, where ""the game"" sets a goal and then rewards the player for completing said goals. This is not a new concept, this is normal and everyone (aside of the completely new players, but that's fine due to the type of rewards we're talking about) has the equal opportunity to attend and complete said content to get the rewards they want.

 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[Zalavaaris.5329]

1 minute ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

There you go again ...do you call wvw envoy armor? Not asking for envoy. Good grief you keep harping back to this, and again discounting everything else. Do you feel the same about the wvw set too? Honestly its a bit hypocritical at this point.

That's why I specified envoy armor... because that's what I'm talking about because people talk about THOSE SPECIFIC SKINS..... Idgaf if open worlders get legendary stat swapping gear. Doesn't bother me. That would be like having the dhuum chair vs the ice chair from the gem store. One means more as far as achievement goes but they function the same. No issues with that.

[Fuchslein.8639]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

If this mode really needs that legendary armor draw in order to survive, it means something is very, very wrong with that content, and you really should be aiming to fix it, instead of trying to buy off other players in order to conceal those underlying issues.

 

If what you saying is true, it's not people that are asking for alternate legendary sets that are killing raids. It's either the raiders themselves, or raid design that does that.

 

I really wondering why your'e so hung up on this argument.

 

As I said in another thread where you made the same argument. Show me PVE content with bad, or no rewards that runs well?

 

In fact, raids are even more actively run by people who just do it for fun than PVE'ers who jump from meta-event to meta-event, depending on where anet has patched in the best rewards.

What is going wrong now?

 

What is so bad about it, if you want to play something and want to be rewarded for it, would probably be the other question. But I suppose that if you have few arguments, you hang on to all as tight as possible to have at least something ^^.

[Xanadrine.4352]

2 minutes ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

That's why I specified envoy armor... because that's what I'm talking about because people talk about THOSE SPECIFIC SKINS..... Idgaf if open worlders get legendary stat swapping gear. Doesn't bother me. That would be like having the dhuum chair vs the ice chair from the gem store. One means more as far as achievement goes but they function the same. No issues with that.

Then we are in agreement, it only took how many pages? No where did I say I wanted the raid skins, as a matter of fact I specifically said I didnt. I only want the QoL it offers because to me thats more important than the look.

[Infusion.7149]

After reading the past pages it's plainly obvious there is no consensus even if there was an actual proposal for an additional alternate legendary armor.

Without naming names because people will think it's a personal attack or something... :
You have people that adamantly want another way to obtain Envoy armor SKIN (unlikely to happen even if there is a new method because skins are exclusive to the method obtained, see Ascension vs Ad Infinitum or Conflux vs Coalescence), people that just hate raids and claim to be fighting for "others" even though they have full raid armors (🤣), people that raid/WVW/PVP and even gotten pieces already and still claim they don't have access to legendary armor (also🙃) , and people that don't want to do any of the existing methods.

 

Yet nobody pushing for such a thing acknowledges what I mentioned above:
* Ad Infinitum is more gated than Envoy armor, because unless you buy/craft full ascended gear and have scale 95 yourself you need to get the scale open and complete it along with other fractals
* PVP legendary armor requires minimum rank 20 since you can't do ranked without rank 20 and there's a far less lenient timegate because tournament tickets are gated by seasons

* Ascension is also more gated because you need not only rank 20 but also multiple seasons
* Warbringer requires 350 WvW rank

Also apparently it is more fun to bring "politics" and random word debate into an actual "issue" discussion. I've not seen this level of ridiculousness even by attorneys. As stated by multiple people, if the same effort time was being used to do as opposed to debate , people would have obtained legendary armor already.

Get your facts straight people.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Xanadrine.4352]

10 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

You have people that adamantly want another way to obtain Envoy armor SKIN

This is the crux of the matter, maybe you are just discounting everything else posted and tunneling on envoy. Maybe the op was all about envoy. But if you look at other threads on open world/alternative legendary armor its mostly about a set even plain jane set we can get, its about the QoL of the armory, its about the ability to craft one from the mode most play. And its not a gimme, we realize it would be a long intense grind.

 

I understand in this game the skin has more meaning and shows dedication in the mode it was received in. Im not trying to take that away, and yes I think people should have the looks that say I did this! Raid amour for raiders, im not against that. I think people that do hard content should have the best looking sets if thats what they like.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[Infusion.7149]

6 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

This is the crux of the matter, maybe you are just discounting everything else posted and tunneling on envoy. Maybe the op was all about envoy. But if you look at other threads on open world/alternative legendary armor its mostly about a set even plain jane set we can get, its about the QoL of the armory, its about the ability to craft one from the mode most play. And its not a gimme, we realize it would be a long intense grind.

Read the original post again.

"Hey ll. Just wanted to hear what other people think about locking the Perfected Envoy armor behind raids. (my opinion, best looking armor)  "

Edited August 10, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Xanadrine.4352]

46 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Read the original post again.

"Hey ll. Just wanted to hear what other people think about locking the Perfected Envoy armor behind raids. (my opinion, best looking armor)  "

I understand what the op said, but I gave an alternative because im not trying to take away from that skin. The op asks for too much I agree, when all we really need is a simple design that allows the functionality of the armory. Not trying to take away from the raid set at all. I think people in this game revolve around fashion wars, im more practical.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

1 hour ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Then we are in agreement, it only took how many pages? No where did I say I wanted the raid skins, as a matter of fact I specifically said I didnt. I only want the QoL it offers because to me thats more important than the look.

When I make an argument it's usually not specifically directed at one person. It's usually towards an idea.  In this case you and I would agree.  I was specifically arguing against envoy armor being obtainable outside of raids.  

 

I dont mind legendary utility outside of raids. I mean hell... wvw has it... pvp has it... I don't see why they can't do some cool story collection for the open world. Maybe even throw in some story mode dungeon achievements for the lore. Its kind of like the new amulet coming out. I'm going to get it for sure, but it won't mean as much as seeing the one from rated pvp imho. I might even still venture into pvp just to make that one for the prestige of doing it (even though I suck at pvp and need to gitgud).

Edited August 10, 2021 by Zalavaaris.5329

[Xanadrine.4352]

14 minutes ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

When I make an argument it's usually not specifically directed at one person. It's usually towards an idea.  In this case you and I would agree.  I was specifically arguing against envoy armor being obtainable outside of raids.  

 

I dont mind legendary utility outside of raids. I mean hell... wvw has it... pvp has it... I don't see why they can't do some cool story collection for the open world. Maybe even throw in some story mode dungeon achievements for the lore. Its kind of like the new amulet coming out. I'm going to get it for sure, but it won't mean as much as seeing the one from rated pvp imho. I might even still venture into pvp just to make that one for the prestige of doing it (even though I suck at pvp and need to gitgud).

Thank you, thats all I would want. Also im a big fan of dungeons in most games, and I would love to see them used for a pve story set. Not enough interest in dungeons for me to get people to run them unless its a daily, so this would incentivize and create interest in them  

Edited August 10, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[Zalavaaris.5329]

4 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Thank you, thats all I would want. 

Unfortunately many others would not agree. And those people are not thanking me today lol

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

 

I really wondering why your'e so hung up on this argument.

 

As I said in another thread where you made the same argument. Show me PVE content with bad, or no rewards that runs well?

There's a difference between having a content die because it is unrewarding, and content surviving only thanks to a singular reward. If raids absolutely need exclusivity on PvE legendary armor to survive (and can't just be okay with decent level of non-exclusive rewards), it means that this content is simply not worth doing. It's only the armor that is worth it.

 

Of course, If that original argument is true and raids indeed do need that exclusivity. But that's not an argument I have made.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[Xanadrine.4352]

6 minutes ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Unfortunately many others would not agree. And those people are not thanking me today lol

Well I have proposed this in other threads on the subject. Leave raid armor to the raids and pvp and wvw armor to their modes, I never disagreed with that. I did get heated over the fact many people seem to just want to lock ow players out of a set, but I think the op post created an atmosphere of  give me envoy skins! without raids, and thats not want I want at all. I just want to work toward my own set , and I dont need fancy just functional.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[Zalavaaris.5329]

11 minutes ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Well I have proposed this in other threads on the subject. Leave raid armor to the raids and pvp and wvw armor to their modes, I never disagreed with that. I did get heated over the fact many people seem to just want to lock ow players out of a set, but I think the op post created an atmosphere of  give me envoy skins! without raids, and thats not want I want at all. I just want to work toward my own set , and I dont need fancy just functional.

The OP did create that atmosphere and that's exactly what I was arguing against. It's why I suggested people pay gold for carries for it. And I don't think the legendary set you'd get should look plain and bad. It is a legendary after all. Just not the same exact skin is all. So yes we are 100% on the same page. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by Zalavaaris.5329

[Xanadrine.4352]

1 minute ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

The OP did create that atmosphere and that's exactly what I was arguing against. It's why I suggest people pay gold for carries for it. And I don't think the legendary set you'd get should look plain and bad. It is a legendary after all. Just not the same exact skin is all. So yes we are 100% on the same page. 

Thanks! I hope more people understand not trying to take away from raids. Heck I still have almost 200 LI myself im just not into regular raiding I did for a bit but I cant anymore. But I tell people all the time to give it a try before saying they hate it. Some will , some will refuse forever to step foot in a raid.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

Just now, Zuldari.3940 said:

Thanks! I hope more people understand not trying to take away from raids. Heck I still have almost 200 LI myself im just not into regular raiding I did for a bit but I cant anymore. But I tell people all the time to give it a try before saying they hate it. Some will , some will refuse forever to step foot in a raid.

Yea for sure, it is 100% a grind lol I get you there. I always encourage people who want the envoy stuff to give it a shot just due to the simplicity of the raids in this game. But some just never will and that's ok. It isn't for everyone. 

[Xanadrine.4352]

2 minutes ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Yea for sure, it is 100% a grind lol I get you there. I always encourage people who want the envoy stuff to give it a shot just due to the simplicity of the raids in this game. But some just never will and that's ok. It isn't for everyone. 

I actually like raids, the problem is I sustained a hand injury when I came back to the game about a year and a half later I found I could not perform fast enough or accurate enough now to rejoin my old static. Its okay sometimes I go on training raids just to get a little raid fix in.

[Zalavaaris.5329]

Just now, Zuldari.3940 said:

I actually like raids, the problem is I sustained a hand injury when I came back to the game about a year and a half later I found I could not perform fast enough or accurate enough now to rejoin my old static. Its okay sometimes I go on training raids just to get a little raid fix in.

That sucks! I actually have arthritis in my wrists and fingers so it's a literal pain to play. But hey, finishing the 3rd set is worth it to me haha

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

7 hours ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

The OP did create that atmosphere and that's exactly what I was arguing against. It's why I suggested people pay gold for carries for it.

Or we can you know offer a easymode 😛

Rather than paying x3 ammounts that you normally would get frpm Raids .:P

 

Othwwise nerf the rewards and the instance reset dailies , so the people that are doing them now increase the participation per months in the charts .

Rather than 4 times per month => 30 times per months

Boost  those numbers yo

Edited August 10, 2021 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Zalavaaris.5329]

6 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Or we can you know offer a easymode 😛

Rather than paying x3 ammounts that you normally would get frpm Raids .:P

 

Othwwise nerf the rewards and the instance reset dailies , so the people that are doing them now increase the participation per months in the charts .

Rather than 4 times per month => 30 times per months

Boost  those numbers yo

Thats a completely new thread lol

 

I'm all for an easy mode though tbh. As A LONG time WoW hardcore raider I'm ok with that as they also have different difficulties. I think gw2 could use a harder version and an easier version. However keep in mind, in WoW you don't get mythic gear from LFR and I'd expect the same for gw2 😉

Edited August 10, 2021 by Zalavaaris.5329

[Dante.1763]

11 minutes ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Thats a completely new thread lol

 

I'm all for an easy mode though tbh. As A LONG time WoW hardcore raider I'm ok with that as they also have different difficulties. I think gw2 could use a harder version and an easier version. However keep in mind, in WoW you don't get mythic gear from LFR and I'd expect the same for gw2 😉

I do have a curious question for you on that subject if you would indulge me. Would be okay with 1 LI per wing on easy mode? Players would have to do 150 wings for their first armor set on easy mode, and still have the weekly cap(so 7 per week, 1 per wing) if they stayed on that mode and only did that mode.

 

150/7 = 22 weeks for the first set of armor at that rate if thats all they do, and double that for the last two sets, so 44 weeks per armor xD

 

For those of us who can do normal raids it would increase our LI per week up by 7 if we ran the easy mode, cutting the time down.

 

If my math is right it would be 10 weeks of clearing every normal and easy mode wing. Per set.

 

And well, i think a hard mode should have double reward drops, but i agree it would have been nice to have.

 

But yea, new thread for that otherwise(And if you dont want to post the answer here feel free to message it privately ^^)

Edited August 10, 2021 by Dante.1763

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

7 hours ago, Zalavaaris.5329 said:

Thats a completely new thread lol

 

I'm all for an easy mode though tbh. As A LONG time WoW hardcore raider I'm ok with that as they also have different difficulties. I think gw2 could use a harder version and an easier version. However keep in mind, in WoW you don't get mythic gear from LFR and I'd expect the same for gw2 😉

 

Lets make the Legendary skins to have the same animation in both versions  and they can have the stats of exotics in the easy version  

Vergin -Deathwing (druid 2006-2013  - currently banned for hacking:P)

 

(yo old gg are we ever going to get a shapesgifter ? exactly as Toolkit Enginner , but thematically? Or gemstore skin )

Edited August 10, 2021 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Zalavaaris.5329]

1 minute ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Lets make the Legendary skins to have the same animation in both versions  and they can have the stats of exotics in the easy version   😛

Nope, not how that works. But again, that's wayyyy off topic for this thread.