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Jotun fire magic

Brycar.2651Brycar.2651 Member ✭✭✭

Is Jotun fire magic connected to Primordus fire magic?

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  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nothing confirms it atm.
    So officially no, they're not connected as far as current lore states.

    Some of us speculate that may change in future content though but that's just theories and speculations based on very very little tbh.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There is a vague basis for speculation that it might be, since it's supposed to be Primordus' power specifically that's Jormag's weakness and jotun fire magic apparently works, but that could be just a matter of it requiring sufficiently intense fire magic and Primordus is the best known source of such.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    There is a vague basis for speculation that it might be, since it's supposed to be Primordus' power specifically that's Jormag's weakness and jotun fire magic apparently works, but that could be just a matter of it requiring sufficiently intense fire magic and Primordus is the best known source of such.

    The latest release also had a new hint that Jotun fire is tied to Primordus in some way

    I'd rather keep going.. wherever the wind takes us

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fenom.9457 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    There is a vague basis for speculation that it might be, since it's supposed to be Primordus' power specifically that's Jormag's weakness and jotun fire magic apparently works, but that could be just a matter of it requiring sufficiently intense fire magic and Primordus is the best known source of such.

    The latest release also had a new hint that Jotun fire is tied to Primordus in some way

    I must have missed that one - where was it?

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2020

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    There is a vague basis for speculation that it might be, since it's supposed to be Primordus' power specifically that's Jormag's weakness and jotun fire magic apparently works, but that could be just a matter of it requiring sufficiently intense fire magic and Primordus is the best known source of such.

    However, Bitterfrost Frontier also establishes the Spirit of Fire to being counter to Jormag's. So just being able to hinder Jormag isn't really a vague basis to relate to Primordus' power.

    Similarly, the entire first half of IBS has been hinting that the bow would never be enough to actually kill Jormag, even if it can pierce Jormag's bone.

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Fenom.9457 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    There is a vague basis for speculation that it might be, since it's supposed to be Primordus' power specifically that's Jormag's weakness and jotun fire magic apparently works, but that could be just a matter of it requiring sufficiently intense fire magic and Primordus is the best known source of such.

    The latest release also had a new hint that Jotun fire is tied to Primordus in some way

    I must have missed that one - where was it?

    There wasn't. But people (not sure if Fenom included) are pulling that as a means to explain their "Braham is becoming a champion of Primordus" theory. Which doesn't really make sense to all established lore.

    Which probably is why OP is asking.

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  • Brycar.2651Brycar.2651 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    There is a vague basis for speculation that it might be, since it's supposed to be Primordus' power specifically that's Jormag's weakness and jotun fire magic apparently works, but that could be just a matter of it requiring sufficiently intense fire magic and Primordus is the best known source of such.

    However, Bitterfrost Frontier also establishes the Spirit of Fire to being counter to Jormag's. So just being able to hinder Jormag isn't really a vague basis to relate to Primordus' power.

    Similarly, the entire first half of IBS has been hinting that the bow would never be enough to actually kill Jormag, even if it can pierce Jormag's bone.

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Fenom.9457 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    There is a vague basis for speculation that it might be, since it's supposed to be Primordus' power specifically that's Jormag's weakness and jotun fire magic apparently works, but that could be just a matter of it requiring sufficiently intense fire magic and Primordus is the best known source of such.

    The latest release also had a new hint that Jotun fire is tied to Primordus in some way

    I must have missed that one - where was it?

    There wasn't. But people (not sure if Fenom included) are pulling that as a means to explain their "Braham is becoming a champion of Primordus" theory. Which doesn't really make sense to all established lore.

    Which probably is why OP is asking.

    Yes, that is why I was asking. I didn’t play GW1. I wasn’t sure if it was already established that the dragons controlled/are the source of/everything flows thru them. Like all fire magic somehow connected to Primordus, all ice magic to Jormag, death magic to Zhaitan (spell?), etc.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2020

    @Brycar.2651 said:
    Yes, that is why I was asking. I didn’t play GW1. I wasn’t sure if it was already established that the dragons controlled/are the source of/everything flows thru them. Like all fire magic somehow connected to Primordus, all ice magic to Jormag, death magic to Zhaitan (spell?), etc.

    Magics from different origins feel different.
    At the very least, humans can differentiate between different magics, like God magic and Dragon magic.
    Balthazar's fire magic is different to Primordus' fire magic. They aren't connected by anything other than their element.
    Zhaitan's Death magic is different from Grenth's. Joko's death magic is probably different from either of them.
    It's safe to say that Grenth's ice magic is different from Jormag's.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Fenom.9457 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    There is a vague basis for speculation that it might be, since it's supposed to be Primordus' power specifically that's Jormag's weakness and jotun fire magic apparently works, but that could be just a matter of it requiring sufficiently intense fire magic and Primordus is the best known source of such.

    The latest release also had a new hint that Jotun fire is tied to Primordus in some way

    I must have missed that one - where was it?

    There wasn't. But people (not sure if Fenom included) are pulling that as a means to explain their "Braham is becoming a champion of Primordus" theory. Which doesn't really make sense to all established lore.

    Which probably is why OP is asking.

    Oh, the whole 'tracking Destroyers' thing? Adequately explained through the Spirit of Wolf.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Fenom.9457 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    There is a vague basis for speculation that it might be, since it's supposed to be Primordus' power specifically that's Jormag's weakness and jotun fire magic apparently works, but that could be just a matter of it requiring sufficiently intense fire magic and Primordus is the best known source of such.

    The latest release also had a new hint that Jotun fire is tied to Primordus in some way

    I must have missed that one - where was it?

    There wasn't. But people (not sure if Fenom included) are pulling that as a means to explain their "Braham is becoming a champion of Primordus" theory. Which doesn't really make sense to all established lore.

    Which probably is why OP is asking.

    I’m not saying I definitely am buying into the jotun Fire is Primordus magic theory but right now that’s the best we can come up with as to when Braham ever came into contact with anything that could have given him a connection to Primordus

    I'd rather keep going.. wherever the wind takes us

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fenom.9457 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Fenom.9457 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    There is a vague basis for speculation that it might be, since it's supposed to be Primordus' power specifically that's Jormag's weakness and jotun fire magic apparently works, but that could be just a matter of it requiring sufficiently intense fire magic and Primordus is the best known source of such.

    The latest release also had a new hint that Jotun fire is tied to Primordus in some way

    I must have missed that one - where was it?

    There wasn't. But people (not sure if Fenom included) are pulling that as a means to explain their "Braham is becoming a champion of Primordus" theory. Which doesn't really make sense to all established lore.

    Which probably is why OP is asking.

    I’m not saying I definitely am buying into the jotun Fire is Primordus magic theory but right now that’s the best we can come up with as to when Braham ever came into contact with anything that could have given him a connection to Primordus

    Why would he need a connection to Primordus? There's a precedent for Wolf granting the ability to sniff out dragon minons, and Braham recently deepened his connection to Wolf. Stands to reason that if a human with the blessing of Wolf could sense the location of Svanir, a norn follower of Wolf could develop a similar ability to sense a powerful minion of Primordus.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2020

    The answer is simply no, because its been established in canon that those who wield Primordus's fire magic become corrupted. I'd go into detail, but its major spoilers if you haven't played the Vision and read the lorepieces associated with it

    Jormag is vulnerable to fire magic simply due to being an ice dragon, its just that only Primordus's magic is on the order required to kill them, as shown by Mordremoth and Kralkatorrik being almost invulnerable. The only reason we were able to defeat Zhaitan by convential means is because he basically had no magic left by the time we reached him, with his Mouths dead and the Heartwell purified.

    Most likely, at full power Balthazar or even Menzies could've killed Jormag outright as well. This is left ambiguous as Kormir said the outcome didn't matter only that it'd destroy Tyria (or at least a significant chunk of it) regardless.

    Its worth noting that the Jotun were once God-Kings that made even Joko look weak. If the stories are true, they existed on a level far beyond anything that exists now, and may've been as powerful as the Human Gods, individually. So there's no way of really knowing how powerful Jotun magic is, and the single demonstration we have of it (breaking the tooth) accomplished something nothing else ever has.

    It also severely injured the Commander with a single attack, who is seen as godlike by most Tyrians as well.

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  • @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Jormag is vulnerable to fire magic simply due to being an ice dragon, its just that only Primordus's magic is on the order required to kill them, as shown by Mordremoth and Kralkatorrik being almost invulnerable. The only reason we were able to defeat Zhaitan by convential means is because he basically had no magic left by the time we reached him, with his Mouths dead and the Heartwell purified.

    More accurately, the "unique weakness" isn't strictly what's necessary to deliver the killing blow (keep in mind, the killing blow to Mordremoth wasn't "fighting his mind directly" but rather, killing Trahearne with Caladbolg). With Zhaitan, its unique weakness was the over-reliance on specialized minions - the Mouths and Eyes. Destroying the Mouths and Eyes weakened Zhaitan to a point where it could be killed, just as severing Mordremoth's connection to the Dream weakened Mordremoth to a point where it could be killed.

    Kralkatorrik was a bit different, in that piercing his heart with his own resonance was apparently necessary to kill him (though who knows, maybe that was just the easiest means of delivering a final blow due to the toughness of Kralk's crystals - after all, conventional weaponry does seem to put cuts in his flesh as well).

    Primordus and Jormag can go either way - that using each other's magic will put them into a vulnerable position to allow anything of sufficient power to deliver the final blow, or that it is what's necessary for the final blow.

    Its worth noting that the Jotun were once God-Kings that made even Joko look weak. If the stories are true, they existed on a level far beyond anything that exists now, and may've been as powerful as the Human Gods, individually. So there's no way of really knowing how powerful Jotun magic is, and the single demonstration we have of it (breaking the tooth) accomplished something nothing else ever has.

    The term for jotun royalty is actually giant-king, not god-king. And they weren't divine in any right, they were just elites among elites - as were the mursaat, Seer, dwarves, and Forgotten of that era. Definitely not Six Gods level.

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  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    im lost, wheres the bow is atm? i replayed IBS sometimes, but never payed attention to the bow status.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2020

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    im lost, wheres the bow is atm? i replayed IBS sometimes, but never payed attention to the bow status.

    Ryland has it. He took it from Bangar during the final instance of episode 4.

    “Bangar Ruinbringer: What—? No. The bow. Where's the—
    Rytlock Brimstone: Ryland—!
    Ryland Steelcatcher: You told me the bow was to rally the charr. You said you would never use it on Jormag.
    Bangar Ruinbringer: The bow is leverage. Nothing more.”

    In Champions it’s explained that Ryland has hidden it away apparently.

    “ Eirsson: Since we're all playing nice, how about you return my bow. You know, the one you stole.
    Ryland Steelcatcher: Now, why would I hand you a weapon you think can hurt Jormag? "Act first, think later," right?
    Gorrik: I mean...
    Ryland Steelcatcher: Don't worry. I'll keep it safe for you.
    Braham Eirsson: Oh, I'm getting it back.“

  • firedragon.8953firedragon.8953 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2020

    Is jotun fire magic Primordus magic? No. Is Primordus and joton magic fire elemental magic? Yes.

    Same magic, different wielder.