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    PvP Systems Conversation

    Ben Phongluangtham.1065Ben Phongluangtham.1065 ArenaNet ArenaNet 
    in PVP

    Hi folks!

    On Wednesday, 12/6, the Guild Wars 2 PvP team will be having a community event. We’ll be posting a series of discussion topics that players can join to ask questions or share their comments. We plan to be active in the threads until the end of the week. Our responses won’t be instantaneous, but we will try to get to as many questions and comments as possible.

    Our posts will cover the following topics:

    • Matchmaking/Leagues
    • Automated Tournaments
    • Rewards
    • Maps
    • Game Modes
    • Miscellaneous (Note: We may not respond to everything in this thread. There are some things we can’t discuss at this time.)

    You’ll notice that skills and balance and player behavior are not included in the list of topics. As most of you are aware, the PvP team does not handle balance changes and we are not responsible for reviewing or responding to player conduct issues. As such, we cannot answer questions on these topics. You should continue to post your questions about skills and balance in the appropriate profession subforum, and you can direct any concerns you have about player conduct to our Customer Support Team.

    We look forward to having a good and productive conversation with you starting Wednesday!

    Ben Phongluangtham
    Game Designer
    Reddit: ANET_BenP
    Twitch: AnetBenP

    Tagged:
    <13

    Comments

    • Ledavi.1803Ledavi.1803 Member ✭✭

      @Milan.9035 said:
      They can have the best reward and best matchmaking and it wont mean anything if there is no balance. I dont think thw pvp team needs to talk to the community at all, i think they need to talk to balance team. You guys have a lot to talk about....

      I hear what you are saying, and looking at breakdown of players in ranked, clearly there are favorites (likely because they are unbalanced and strong). But I like a challenge and playing builds that are hard to play and I suspect I'm not the only one that doesn't just gravitate to the FotM. So I guess I'm saying I think the 'balance is the only problem' is overstated and it is nice to hear from devs that they want player input. Good luck finding the elusive perfect balance! Every build has a counter and there are so many possibilities that I would think it impossible that there aren't easier to play builds and harder to play builds. But it seems I'm in the minority

    • NICENIKESHOE.7128NICENIKESHOE.7128 Member ✭✭✭
      edited December 5, 2017

      In regards to maps: I felt like within the current meta where AoE dominates, it maybe necessary to talk about increasing cap size to reduce effectiveness of certain builds in conquest (while increase others). It may not have as much impact on higher tiers since players tend to kite more efficiently, but it'll help with lower tiers.

      Also add courtyard to stronghold queue in unranked. In the future maybe add another gamemode (capture the quaggan whatnot) so there are alternative gamemodes.

      [RED] Crimson Sunspears...your small family guild since 2015.

    • Ziggityzog.7389Ziggityzog.7389 Member ✭✭✭✭
      edited December 5, 2017

      I'm quite happy that things will be discussed with us finally! :). We all want a good game. As for me I say we need new game modes or more updated maps of Stronghold/TDM. Conquest has made the game beyond stale Bring back the 5 man system and add a leaderboard for groups (2,3,5) and a leaderboard for solo que.

      Balance isnt as bad as it has been but stale game play and over played modes / maps make it less enjoyable in PvP.

      Also PvP server lag is beyond ridiculous right now. Having pings go from 30-40 to 90-120 is cray cray.

    • Morwath.9817Morwath.9817 Member ✭✭✭✭
      edited December 5, 2017

      @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

      @Morwath.9817 said:

      @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
      Hi folks!

      On Wednesday, 12/6, the Guild Wars 2 PvP team will be having a community event. We’ll be posting a series of discussion topics that players can join to ask questions or share their comments. We plan to be active in the threads until the end of the week. Our responses won’t be instantaneous, but we will try to get to as many questions and comments as possible.

      Our posts will cover the following topics:

      • Matchmaking/Leagues
      • Automated Tournaments
      • Rewards
      • Maps
      • Game Modes
      • Miscellaneous (Note: We may not respond to everything in this thread. There are some things we can’t discuss at this time.) You’ll notice that skills and balance and player behavior are not included in the list of topics. As most of you are aware, the PvP team does not handle balance changes and we are not responsible for reviewing or responding to player conduct issues. As such, we cannot answer questions on these topics. You should continue to post your questions about skills and balance in the appropriate profession subforum, and you can direct any concerns you have about player conduct to our Customer Support Team. We look forward to having a good and productive conversation with you starting Wednesday!

      HelloOo, nice to see you active!
      Quaggan is happy you gonna talk with Quaggan and his fishy friends in PvP forums! Quaggan has noticed Game Modes on your list, so he wonders, if we will talk about other modes than Conquest, which would mean, we can hope for tweaks for Stronghold and maybe see some Deathmatch (reworked Coutyard)? Quaggan understands you don't work on balance, but does that mean, profession designers don't read PvP forums and nobody is sharing our concerns with them?

      The balance team does look at the PvP forums, though they watch the class specific forums more often.

      Ooo, then Quaggan has an idea.
      Wouldn't it be good to have sPvP balancing sticky thread for each profession*? It would be easy to track for each designer associated with profession hes working on and players to share feedback there. Currently it's rather hard to share feedback and discuss on so many subforums at once (Quaggan doesn't even step there for a reason), especially when you would have to debate with people who don't sPvP or don't care about sPvP at all, and will defend broken things just because they are afraid of PvE nerfs.

      Fishy Edit:
      *In PvP subforum.

      "death by lag - it is your fate
      just relax, and meditate"

      Voice Command System and Announcers Packs - Would you pay with gems for those?

      Quaggy sPvP Necro Feedback

    • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
      edited December 5, 2017

      Im assuming player conduct would cover the reporting function in game?

      We really need one for the amount of afk/rage quitters that plague the game right now.

      Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
      Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion

    • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

      @Kuya.6495 said:
      It is precisely the pvp team's inability to directly handle class balance in pvp that vexes me.

      That's not the problem, It's just that the balance team needs 3x the budget and manpower to achieve about 3x as many positive changes per patch.

      twitch.tv/chaithh
      Forum Lord Chaith

    • kKagari.6804kKagari.6804 Member ✭✭✭✭

      @Kuya.6495 said:

      @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

      @Morwath.9817 said:

      @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
      Hi folks!

      On Wednesday, 12/6, the Guild Wars 2 PvP team will be having a community event. We’ll be posting a series of discussion topics that players can join to ask questions or share their comments. We plan to be active in the threads until the end of the week. Our responses won’t be instantaneous, but we will try to get to as many questions and comments as possible.

      Our posts will cover the following topics:

      • Matchmaking/Leagues
      • Automated Tournaments
      • Rewards
      • Maps
      • Game Modes
      • Miscellaneous (Note: We may not respond to everything in this thread. There are some things we can’t discuss at this time.) You’ll notice that skills and balance and player behavior are not included in the list of topics. As most of you are aware, the PvP team does not handle balance changes and we are not responsible for reviewing or responding to player conduct issues. As such, we cannot answer questions on these topics. You should continue to post your questions about skills and balance in the appropriate profession subforum, and you can direct any concerns you have about player conduct to our Customer Support Team. We look forward to having a good and productive conversation with you starting Wednesday!

      HelloOo, nice to see you active!
      Quaggan is happy you gonna talk with Quaggan and his fishy friends in PvP forums! Quaggan has noticed Game Modes on your list, so he wonders, if we will talk about other modes than Conquest, which would mean, we can hope for tweaks for Stronghold and maybe see some Deathmatch (reworked Coutyard)? Quaggan understands you don't work on balance, but does that mean, profession designers don't read PvP forums and nobody is sharing our concerns with them?

      The balance team does look at the PvP forums, though they watch the class specific forums more often.

      Thank you for answering, but i believe mostly paying attention to the class profession subforums is part of the reason why pvp balance is so bad.

      People in profession subforums aren't concerned about how their classes are balanced vs other classes. They tend to be pve players and they tend to want more toys to play with.

      Meanwhile, people who post in the pvp forums are more concerned about interprofessional balance within the pvp game mode. Reading mostly rhe profession sub forums provides a warped view of what is happening in pvp as far as discontent goes.

      Sadly, I'm inclined to agree with this. I've given up on having meaningful discussions in the class forums these days.

    • NotoriousNaru.1705NotoriousNaru.1705 Member ✭✭✭

      Atleast the balance after pof release was no where near as atrocious as hot release xd

    • Sinid.7460Sinid.7460 Member ✭✭

      @NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:
      In regards to maps: I felt like within the current meta where AoE dominates, it maybe necessary to talk about increasing cap size to reduce effectiveness of certain builds in conquest (while increase others). It may not have as much impact on higher tiers since players tend to kite more efficiently, but it'll help with lower tiers.

      Also add courtyard to stronghold queue in unranked. In the future maybe add another gamemode (capture the quaggan whatnot) so there are alternative gamemodes.

      Increasing cap size is a bad bad idea. It will only result in giving bunkers an advantage on holding points and make games more stale. Aoe is going to be as effective on a big point as it is going to be outside the point (learn to play issue)... all this would do is promoting bunker meta. Catering for the casuals is not going to help make the game healthier and in the long run that's not a good thing for either the lower tiers or higher tiers.

      @Ziggityzog.7389 said:
      I'm quite happy that things will be discussed with us finally! :). We all want a good game. As for me I say we need new game modes or more updated maps of Stronghold/TDM. Conquest has made the game beyond stale Bring back the 5 man system and add a leaderboard for groups (2,3,5) and a leaderboard for solo que.

      Balance isnt as bad as it has been but stale game play and over played modes / maps make it less enjoyable in PvP.

      Also PvP server lag is beyond ridiculous right now. Having pings go from 30-40 to 90-120 is cray cray.

      They have already tried Courtyard and it sucked. The game is balanced around conquest and that's how it should be because it's the most fun mode to play honestly. Deathmatch gets real old real fast. It's more interesting to play around objectives on a map and engage in varied matchups (2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 1v2) instead of getting into a map and fighting 5v5 every single time. Conquest promotes more build diversity because of this and you don't come across into as many repeated scenarios so it's less boring. I really can't see how anyone would think that deathmatch wouldn't make pvp more stale.

      "Bring back the 5 man system"? Hello? What's the point of this? This already existed before when the game was more popular and it was basically dead. On top of that, we have ATs now....

      Maybe more game modes would be fun, but this can't be done until the main mode (conquest) is healthier. The population is already shrinking and you want to shrink it even further by introducing new game modes? I don't think I need to explain more why this is a bad idea.

    • NotoriousNaru.1705NotoriousNaru.1705 Member ✭✭✭

      I would like to know why the anet servers shifted from the old ones to the new east coast ones. Idk how anyone thinks its a good idea for their entire west coast playerbase to go from 40-60 ping to 90-120 ping. Several posts have been made on the pvp forums about this and they get ignored then deleted. But I guess the majority of the gw2 playerbase are pve casuals and it doesn't matter to them.

    • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭

      To be honest, balance is one of those areas that's already heavily discussed and would just overshadow the structural issues with PvP, so it's probably better to leave that for a different conversation.

      The reason why I (and perhaps a few other players) don't play PvP at all has nothing to do with poor balance. It's because the game mode itself is boring and creates a focus on builds that aren't interesting to play or play against.

    • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
      edited December 5, 2017

      @Pyriall.1683 said:
      So the most important issue, balance, will not be addressed...

      'Understand Your Worth
      Understand Your Value
      Know Your Worth
      Know Your Value'
      'When important matters are continually being shoved under the rug, pack up and go where it matters''

      You Deserve Better

    • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭
      • Matchmaking/Leagues

      Blah blah queue times too long, short, duo or not, ranked premade or not etc.

      • Automated Tournaments

      Don't care.

      • Rewards

      I'd like more ascended shards... and please drop pveers faster to bronze league.

      • Maps

      Don't care.

      • Game Modes

      Don't care.

      • Miscellaneous

      I'm super hyped for miscellaneous!

      Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

    • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

      I am bummed about not being able to have a discussion on balance but not surprised as we have already been informed that PvP team =/= balance team. However, could we get an estimated time of shipment on that bonus patch that MO alluded to in the Daybreak AMA?

    • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
      edited December 5, 2017

      If I may inquire, what is the chance for new game modes making a stronger appearance? Many of our balance woes are derived from the mode of conquest itself -- it favors melee brawls, which is the land where scourges, spellbreakers, and FBs excel. More open and diverse game modes would open up new alternative styles of play that wouldn't overwhelmingly favor the currently unbalanced meta. There's obviously deathmatch and stronghold, but what about classics like capture the flag, king of the hill (with moving points), and assault (IE one side attacks, other defends)?

      For example, I've noticed in my casual playtime that stronghold favors classes with more mobility and range than raw close-range firepower, thus holo and thieves tend to gain an advantage on those maps, evening the playing field.

      I'd also like to discuss the idea of dynamic points -- points that change in size (or even location!) in response to player activity. This would add significantly more diversity to fights.

      The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

    • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭

      Ranked pvp should have access to mats and complete legendarys from HOT and POF, linked behind a combination of rating and reward tracks or something like that.

      If not something that extreme, at least make available some of all these new skins being released in the Pve portion of the game in Pvp also.

    • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

      @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

      @Morwath.9817 said:

      @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
      Hi folks!

      On Wednesday, 12/6, the Guild Wars 2 PvP team will be having a community event. We’ll be posting a series of discussion topics that players can join to ask questions or share their comments. We plan to be active in the threads until the end of the week. Our responses won’t be instantaneous, but we will try to get to as many questions and comments as possible.

      Our posts will cover the following topics:

      • Matchmaking/Leagues
      • Automated Tournaments
      • Rewards
      • Maps
      • Game Modes
      • Miscellaneous (Note: We may not respond to everything in this thread. There are some things we can’t discuss at this time.) You’ll notice that skills and balance and player behavior are not included in the list of topics. As most of you are aware, the PvP team does not handle balance changes and we are not responsible for reviewing or responding to player conduct issues. As such, we cannot answer questions on these topics. You should continue to post your questions about skills and balance in the appropriate profession subforum, and you can direct any concerns you have about player conduct to our Customer Support Team. We look forward to having a good and productive conversation with you starting Wednesday!

      HelloOo, nice to see you active!
      Quaggan is happy you gonna talk with Quaggan and his fishy friends in PvP forums! Quaggan has noticed Game Modes on your list, so he wonders, if we will talk about other modes than Conquest, which would mean, we can hope for tweaks for Stronghold and maybe see some Deathmatch (reworked Coutyard)? Quaggan understands you don't work on balance, but does that mean, profession designers don't read PvP forums and nobody is sharing our concerns with them?

      The balance team does look at the PvP forums, though they watch the class specific forums more often.

      Really? Is there a reason we never hear from them? Like hell, would it be too much for them to make a single post about the mirage bug fix that went out saying that either A) The new DPS was intended to be this low. or B) it wasn't intended to be this low. Because mesmers don't even know that right now, and it would take 30seconds for them to write that comment.

      Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

    • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

      @JayAction.9056 said:
      Ranked pvp should have access to mats and complete legendarys from HOT and POF, linked behind a combination of rating and reward tracks or something like that.

      If not something that extreme, at least make available some of all these new skins being released in the Pve portion of the game in Pvp also.

      yessss more pveers ruining matches, just what everyone wants :D

      Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

    • Wwefan.4982Wwefan.4982 Member ✭✭

      @Pyriall.1683 said:
      So the most important issue, balance, will not be addressed...

      The dev addressed this when he said that balance is not addressed by the PvP team.

    • lightningz.1465lightningz.1465 Member ✭✭
      edited December 5, 2017

      Hi ben, thanks for putting up effort to communicate to pvp community, it will not please everybody for sure but it is a step towards a right direction.

      Now my question, will we talk about the server change (if it's true) and the lag that happens because of it? I live in SEA, and now at certain times the ping is just unbearable (above 400), i can live with 200-300 ping, not ideal but playable, but above that it's just unplayable. It's too bad because SEA is a huge market, and it is an opportunity loss if ANET doesn't fix this issue. In PVP that ping is just unacceptable.

    • JayAction.9056JayAction.9056 Member ✭✭✭

      @Razor.6392 said:

      @JayAction.9056 said:
      Ranked pvp should have access to mats and complete legendarys from HOT and POF, linked behind a combination of rating and reward tracks or something like that.

      If not something that extreme, at least make available some of all these new skins being released in the Pve portion of the game in Pvp also.

      yessss more pveers ruining matches, just what everyone wants :D

      That's only an issue if you are rated low.

      Otherwise should be no problem.

      Especially if items are gated behind rating/tier

      I mean, I'm not expecting legendarys or legendary mats to be accessible to gold rank.

    • Smarazzinger.1403Smarazzinger.1403 Member ✭✭

      This is a great news! Thx for creating this event!

    • Roundabout.7152Roundabout.7152 Member ✭

      Hi, first forum post I make in this game
      First about my perspective: I bought gw2 on release, bought hot on release, bought pof on release. Did not play much in between the releases. I just came back for WvW / PvP with some friends.

      What GW2 really needs is a place where competetive, fight oriented people can show their skill. At the moment these people are split in WvW and PvP for a few reasons (large scale vs small scale etc.)
      In the high-time of WvW there were Leaderboards organized by people. This is not a thing anymore bc the community is not as large (which is only natural in non-new game)

      So what we really wish for is GvGs. As I said I am just coming back into the game and I am asking myself:
      "Has everyone given up on GvG?"
      Well I am here with my fresh motivation/hope!

      Larger scale fights. 8v8, 10v10, 15v15 are technically possible (just look at WvW where ANet actually does a pretty good job)
      Guilds from WvW can often field 10-20 people every evening for WvW!

      Now the problems:

      • you do not want to draw people out of WvW
      • you do not want to draw people out of PvP

      My Solution would be:
      A weekly "Guild-Clash" on WvW-Reset time on Friday. (Before the reset).
      Just work abit on a few really simple arenas, use the (already in place) automated tournament system
      make it 10v10 or 15v15 or 8v8 (That I leave to people who know what they are talking about)

      Benefits:

      • we actually would have "Guild Wars" (yeah I know they are over.. but still)
      • Progress oriented Guilds can fight every week. Server-Ranking does not matter only how good the guild is, this could strengthen the importance of guilds futher which (imo) is a good thing
      • automated tournament system is already in place from PvP
      • some technology for larger scale fights is already known from WvW
      • "dead" hours before the Reset on Friday where the matchup is decided in 99% of the matchups are filled
      • Boy, the reset would be so hyped up for guilds where they first clash in a tournament, fight abit and then go to WvW together to fight in the reset. Just the thought of it makes me happy
      • PvPlers not interested in Wvw could be interested in this kind of mix between PvP and WvW (same the other way around)
      • PvElers would see this awsome feature and maybe try with their raid-guilds (then they maybe get interested in PvP/WvW?)

      How I would actually do it (I am no professional but I can try):

      • move the WvW Reset by one hour to 20:00 (moving it further back would not be nice to players not interested in that)
      • start the tournament at 18:30 or 19:00 (doing it before might result in people not beeing able to be there, so you only have 1 hour or 1:30)
      • do a tournament system where everyone can play for the whole time and is not one-loss-and-out (Swiss format from Magic the Gathering Tournaments comes to mind)
      • make matches short so there can be 3+ matches with the time before the reset
      • fight one opponent multiple times (bo3?) to reduce time between matches -> more effective playing time AND to benefit from learning the enemy composition/tactic
      • make REALLY simple maps, for example: 2 Hills for highground. In between from one side to the other: "house to hide behind", "Flag-Point where the team which captures it gains minor stat-benefits increasing the longer they stand there, forcing engagement", "some other objective to maybe hide behind, some houses maybe".

      Other options / random thoughts:

      • have this kind of clash tied to the current WvW matchup (so you can do this more often)
      • give guilds the option to access the arena-maps for scrims

      I would be so hyped if a Dev actually responded to this post because I heard Anet tries to be really responsive and this is my first post :heart:

    • Cave Rock.4869Cave Rock.4869 Member ✭✭✭

      The last 4 days I have had constant disconnections from the game, during Spvp matches. Is that about roughly when the servers changed over? I live in Australia. Some disconnects I can say where internet service provider related as I asked. But others I am not so sure about. 4 desertion matches in 4 days. It feels like it ain't worth heading into a match for the risk of losing rating. Hmm hopefully it settles down.

      Apart from that I have to agree with Sinid re the size of capture points, keep them the same, otherwise it either favors one class or another. The prime example is graveyard which heavily favors bunkers.

      One thing I always thought might be cool for Guild Wars 2, would be like a Rift like War front or Daoc like battle ground. Shoot me down but those game modes were fun in the past.

      Although tbh i like the conquest mode we have, what about a map that has more or less than 3 capture points?

    • Urejt.5648Urejt.5648 Member ✭✭✭

      12/6 -12 june 2017 is quite far away. I like anet planning things in the longterm, but this seems a bit off.

      rifle is garbage since stealth on dodge nerf
      ~~* SEASON XII - TOP 12 EU RIFLE GOD! updated

    • Urejt.5648Urejt.5648 Member ✭✭✭

      wanna see pure gold reward track, without need to sell bags

      rifle is garbage since stealth on dodge nerf
      ~~* SEASON XII - TOP 12 EU RIFLE GOD! updated

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