Engi needs more ranged ways to deal damage

Give it a ranged staff or any weapon for its next es, engis more or less the only class now that cant do anything to ranged targets, (especially ones like ele that dont use profectiles) . What it makes it worse is the scourge aids meta where they shut down most melee builds (engi can only damage at melee, so if the other team has even 1 scourge you already know its gonna be a kitteny game).

Edit: At @Chaith and others, just because rifle auto is good doesnt make it a good ranged weapon. You wont kill anyone on rifle auto alone unless the guy is new and doesnt know how to counterattack.To me a proper ranged weapon is something that can deal a lot of damage and cc from range with all 5 attacks, not just autoattack alone

Define "a proper ranged weapon"?

@coglin.1496 said:Define "a proper ranged weapon"?Something like with real 1200 range attacks (rifle is more like a 600 range shotgun before you bring it up), its just annoying to always have to be upfront to hurt your target, especially with the meta we have now

@coglin.1496 said:Define "a proper ranged weapon"?

Assuming he means something that doesn't have range-based damage like Blunderbuss or slow ranged projectiles that aren't really hard-hitting like Mortar Kit.

Easiest option is to increase the damage and attack speed for Ranged skills we already have...

I'd lean toward buffing the damage on Grenades and Mortars (since those require actual aiming), and Turrets. For Grenades and Mortar, they do more damage the further you are, like a "Fire in the Hole!" trait.

Or they could change Tool Kit...

• Auto-Attack - throw wrenches with the Auto Attack (lets face it, the melee "repair turret" gimmick is pointless). Damage and ranged buffed by the trait "Power Wrench". If you can dodge a wrench... :o

Would be nice if the mortar felt like a mortar and not a generic field dispenser.

@coglin.1496 said:Define "a proper ranged weapon"?Revennant hammer3 1200 range aoe burzt skill that arent projectiles , personally i slam dunks of 8-12k damage so they got insane damage scaling compared to our junk

Mortar is really disappointing as a ranged weapon. Bomb kit is the close range field generator, Mortar has no distinct use, mindset or positioning.

What would fix the kit:

Orbital Command: Currently: when striking enemies below 50%, cast a lesser orbital strike.New: In addition to its current effects, Your Orbital Strikes & Mortar shots deal 2.5% more damage for every 50 distance between you and the target location when cast.

Will cause players to actually use mortar as intended, and reward them better for doing so. No more glorified bomb field kit.

Engineer isn't that bad in terms of ranged... I mean, take a look at Guardians, without DH there's only one ranged solution and it's 800 range.Engineer is a mid-range class not a sniper class, and it can be played well as that, Grenade Kit and rifle work very well at medium range, as does pistol.Before Elites people would complain that Engineer didn't have any proper melee options (for fighting projectile reflecting mobs, for example), and they weren't wrong, you had 2 kits for melee range.

@miriforst.1290 said:Would be nice if the mortar felt like a mortar and not a generic field dispenser.

Mortar would be SO much better if the 1-3 were target based, the 4-5 staying as AoE and giving Mortar a BIG damage buff considering its SO easy to avoid the slow as hell projectile

@Coolguy.8702 said:

@coglin.1496 said:Define "a proper ranged weapon"?Something like with real 1200 range attacks (rifle is more like a 600 range shotgun before you bring it up), its just annoying to always have to be upfront to hurt your target, especially with the meta we have now

I didn't ask for obscure suggestions of what you do not want. I ask you to define what you do want. Why create a thread to be generically obscure and avoid defining the discussion?

@ReaverKane.7598 said:Engineer isn't that bad in terms of ranged... I mean, take a look at Guardians, without DH there's only one ranged solution and it's 800 range.Engineer is a mid-range class not a sniper class, and it can be played well as that, Grenade Kit and rifle work very well at medium range, as does pistol.Before Elites people would complain that Engineer didn't have any proper melee options (for fighting projectile reflecting mobs, for example), and they weren't wrong, you had 2 kits for melee range.

A sniper that misses 70% of his/her shot isn't worth IMO. Everything works well for Engineer at the same mid-range. Actually, your best post is max melee range + 1 unit to avoid getting it by everything and still do your maximum damages. What's funny is Shield is more a ranged weapon than Pistol lol.

Honestly. The issue i see is that the Engineer Rifle isnt really a rifle. It behaves more like a shotgun.

I would like to see Shotguns added to the game as a weapon type.

I played in the prerelease beta for GW2 and at that time it was labeled in game as a shotgun. It was only in later test that it was changed to rifle after they released it on warrior.

@Coolguy.8702 said:

@coglin.1496 said:Define "a proper ranged weapon"?Something like with real 1200 range attacks (rifle is more like a 600 range shotgun before you bring it up), its just annoying to always have to be upfront to hurt your target, especially with the meta we have now

A weapon that's entirely unknown except for it's 1200 range REAL auto attacks.

real 1200 range attack: . Compare auto attacks for other 1200 ranged autos,

• Mesmer Staff every 1.32s, 121 (0.3) (Random Boon/Condi.) = 91.66 base DPS
• Elementalist Staff (Lightning) every 1.17, 266 (0.66) = 201.52 base DPS
• Necro Staff every 1.32, 269 (0.666) = 203.79 base DPS
• Druid Staff every 1.35s, 121 (0.3) x3 = 268.88 base DPS
• Deadeye Rifle every 0.92, 253 (0.6) = 275 base DPS
• Warrior Longbow every 1.19s, 338 (0.88) x2 = 284.03 base DPS
• Revenant Hammer every 1.25, 383 (0.95) = 306.40 base DPS
• Engineer Rifle every .84s, 274 (0.65) = 326.19 base DPS
• Dragonhunter Longbow every 1s 327 (0.85) = 327 base DPS
• Mesmer Greatsword (Max Range) every 1.12s, 381 (0.945) x3 = 340.18 base DPS

Obviously take the power scaling contribution per second to get the real DPS. I'd say hip shot is objectively balanced for a 1200 Range auto attack. Maybe you want something OP if rifle doesn't have a real auto?

Maybe what you really mean to say is that you want a weapon with 'real' damage abilities that aren't the auto-attack. But we don't know cause' you provided no suggestion there.

@Chaith.8256 said:

• Mesmer Staff every 1.32s, 121 (0.3) (Random Boon/Condi.) = 91.66 base DPS
• Elementalist Staff (Lightning) every 1.17, 266 (0.66) = 201.52 base DPS
• Necro Staff every 1.32, 269 (0.666) = 203.79 base DPS
• Druid Staff every 1.35s, 121 (0.3) x3 = 268.88 base DPS
• Deadeye Rifle every 0.92, 253 (0.6) = 275 base DPS
• Warrior Longbow every 1.19s, 338 (0.88) x2 = 284.03 base DPS
• Revenant Hammer every 1.25, 383 (0.95) = 306.40 base DPS
• Engineer Rifle every .84s, 274 (0.65) = 326.19 base DPS
• Dragonhunter Longbow every 1s 327 (0.85) = 327 base DPS
• Mesmer Greatsword (Max Range) every 1.12s, 381 (0.945) x3 = 340.18 base DPS

I said nothing about rifle auto, lol...

What I meant was engi needs more ways to attack from range, and could use a range weapon for its next spec. Every class besides engi has at least 1 weapon thats decent from 900+ range. Reminds me of thief pre PoF execpt with way less gap closers and mobility

Best way to fix would just be to give some utilites aoe from afar, or rework pistols

@Coolguy.8702 said:I said nothing about rifle auto, lol...

When asked by Coglin to clarify what a proper ranged weapon is, you just said: Something like with real 1200 range attacks.

Rifle has competitive 1200 range auto-attacks so... maybe you should re-think that definition of what you want in a weapon, and not leave 80% of your weapon suggestion a mystery. Coglin pointed out how your suggestion is still very vague and you flipped out at him... maybe if you want to suggest a Staff, think of some abilities.

@Coolguy.8702 said:What I meant was engi needs more ways to attack from range, and could use a range weapon for its next spec. Every class besides engi has at least 1 weapon thats decent from 900+ range. Reminds me of thief pre PoF execpt with way less gap closers and mobility

Best way to fix would just be to give some utilites aoe from afar, or rework pistols

Yup I would support Pistol and Mortar not being jokes.

1.) Pistol #1: Increased damage by 20%. Is now an explosion. Fragmentation Shot now bleeds on the 120 radius explosion instead of the projectile.

2.) Pistol #2: Is now piercing. Increased damage by 20%.

3.) Orbital Command: Currently: when striking enemies below 50%, cast a lesser orbital strike.New: In addition to its current effects, Your Orbital Strikes & Mortar shots deal 2.5% more damage for every 50 distance between you and the target location when cast.

4.) Holosmith heat bonuses

• Pistol #1: 50+ heat, 1s burn. 100+ heat, 2s burn. (Note, burn applies only to initial target.)
• Pistol #2: 50+ heat, Fires 7 shots (2.25s cast). 100+ heat, Fires 10 shots (3s cast).
• Pistol #3: 50+ heat, +100% damage. 100+ heat, +200% damage.

@Chaith.8256 said:

Rifle has competitive 1200 range auto-attacks so... maybe you should re-think that definition of what you want in a weapon, and not leave 80% of your weapon suggestion a mystery. Coglin pointed out how your suggestion is still very vague and you flipped out at him... maybe if you want to suggest a Staff, think of some abilities.

@Coolguy.8702 said:What I meant was engi needs more ways to attack from range, and could use a range weapon for its next spec. Every class besides engi has at least 1 weapon thats decent from 900+ range. Reminds me of thief pre PoF execpt with way less gap closers and mobility

Best way to fix would just be to give some utilites aoe from afar, or rework pistols

• Pistol #1: 50+ heat, 1s burn. 100+ heat, 2s burn. (Note, burn applies only to initial target.)
• Pistol #2: 50+ heat, Fires 7 shots (2.25s cast). 100+ heat, Fires 10 shots (3s cast).
• Pistol #3: 50+ heat, +100% damage. 100+ heat, +200% damage.

Just because engis rifle auto is good doesnt mean rifle is a great range weapon, compare rifle auto to ranger lb, or ele scepter, rev hammer, war rifle, mesmer gs, Those weapons are all much better at range, idk why you keep bringing up rifle auto when its a joke compared to other classes ranged weapons. I flipped out on Colligin cause he was being a smart ass about it, not because he asked me what i meant

And tbh both pistol and mortar are so bad that those buffs would change almost nothing.Mortar should stop trying to be a bomb kit and be something else (increased attack speed would be great) and Im not even sure how to fix pistols.Maybe they can make grenade kit into something cool, its probably engis best range option rn

@Coolguy.8702 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

Rifle has competitive 1200 range auto-attacks so... maybe you should re-think that definition of what you want in a weapon, and not leave 80% of your weapon suggestion a mystery. Coglin pointed out how your suggestion is still very vague and you flipped out at him... maybe if you want to suggest a Staff, think of some abilities.

@Coolguy.8702 said:What I meant was engi needs more ways to attack from range, and could use a range weapon for its next spec. Every class besides engi has at least 1 weapon thats decent from 900+ range. Reminds me of thief pre PoF execpt with way less gap closers and mobility

Best way to fix would just be to give some utilites aoe from afar, or rework pistols

• Pistol #1: 50+ heat, 1s burn. 100+ heat, 2s burn. (Note, burn applies only to initial target.)
• Pistol #2: 50+ heat, Fires 7 shots (2.25s cast). 100+ heat, Fires 10 shots (3s cast).
• Pistol #3: 50+ heat, +100% damage. 100+ heat, +200% damage.

Gotta say i agree with this except instead of speed make mortar a proper nuke weapon it should at very least deal ranger lb max range type of damage on auto , orbit strike needs its base damage and scaling both doubled so it deals damage close to backstab , its got a 3 second electric charge warning after all

@ReaverKane.7598 said:Engineer isn't that bad in terms of ranged... I mean, take a look at Guardians, without DH there's only one ranged solution and it's 800 range.Engineer is a mid-range class not a sniper class, and it can be played well as that, Grenade Kit and rifle work very well at medium range, as does pistol.Before Elites people would complain that Engineer didn't have any proper melee options (for fighting projectile reflecting mobs, for example), and they weren't wrong, you had 2 kits for melee range.

Guardian Scepter is the second best power ranged weapon in the entire game, only beaten by staff on ele.

Most classes need better ranged options, not having a good ranged weapon(im talking doing literally 50% less dps than your melee option) is really annoying when scourge exists and does 90% of its damage at range.

Now that all the PF abilities are damage oriented, I don't want to see a condi holosmith buff. Taking the trait line only to buff your outgoing conditions on pistol while still applying nothing during PF mode would be ridiculous, especially if it did better than the current condi engineer. I don't want the holosmith to take over all engineer's playstyles.

My 2 cents in weapon comparison

Ele staffFire explodes in contact has 404 base and 1.0 scaling its slower but deals massive small aoe samage

Air weaker but bounces between target

Druid staff and mesmer gs fires a laser beam that doesnt count as a projectile thus bypasses projectile destruction and reflects

Revenant is basically what our rifle would be with elementalist's fire staff auto stats wich is impressive as i crit 4ks in wvw while as engi i crit between 2300 to 2700

Dragonhunter not only match our rifle dps auto but have long range burst and the hard cc on 5 skill

Ranger longbow is king of ranged because their effective range is about 2300 have highest base damage and scaling at 1000+ range, surprised the range extra offshoot range hasnt been nerfed still

As for the necro staff and warrior lb they are all about carpet bombing areas ,necro staff also fills life force considerably,also unblockable aoe marks, deadeye thanks to initiative system can fire multi round bursts instead of auto ,

our rifle is only semi ok in pvp only and mostly because of either static discharge or holosmith to complement or a mix of both. By itself rifle is too bad to be called a joke

@"Coolguy.8702" said:And tbh both pistol and mortar are so bad that those buffs would change almost nothing.Mortar should stop trying to be a bomb kit and be something else (increased attack speed would be great) and Im not even sure how to fix pistols.Maybe they can make grenade kit into something cool, its probably engis best range option rn

Maybe you didn't do the math but I think Mortar #1 and Orbital Strike using a +75% damage modifier at 1500 max range modifier would not "change nothing." Edit: useful for tagging things in WvW, or bombing bodies in PvP.

Pistol mainhand, don't forget you can apply Incendiary Powder and Incendiary Ammo from this weapon, applying lethal pressure from range. And don't forget you can't make pistol outshine kits for Core Engi to encourage swapping, at least without a pistol focused master/grandmaster trait.

My vision for Pistol is dealing decent hybrid damage but excellent cover conditions. If it was an explosion, and bled AoE, it could AoE apply vuln and bleed constantly around the target. With shrapnel, add more bleed and cripple. So an Explosives, Firearms, Alchemy core Engi on pistol 1-2-3 would put up bleed, vuln, poison, confusion, blind, cripple proc, burn proc.

Maybe pistol #2 should apply .75s of weakness baseline per hit just to improve condition variety and reduce the free counterpressure you're taking while stuck in animation.

Grenade kit is pretty awesome in PvP, if Core Engi was used, it would be highly likely grenade kit would be as well. I'd say Grenade builds are right behind flamethrower condi builds for Core Engi

@Rezzet.3614 said:Revenant is basically what our rifle would be with elementalist's fire staff auto stats wich is impressive as i crit 4ks in wvw while as engi i crit between 2300 to 2700

Keep in mind that Hip Shot is Hammer bolt with a 48.81% speed increase, that's without Skilled Marksman. Compare DPS with that in mind. 2700 × 1.4881 equals 4,017. Hip Shot is not a joke, I'm telling you.

@Rezzet.3614 said:our rifle is only semi ok in pvp only and mostly because of either static discharge or holosmith to complement or a mix of both. By itself rifle is too bad to be called a joke.

Rifle is balanced to be a supplementary weapon. To be used by itself, we'd need a trait/utility overhaul to put that build option in. Atm we only have ways to build where our mainhands (not hammer) are simply enhancements to kits, and Photon Forge.

In the "How to fix everything bad" thread I outlined how to create Rifle by itself builds:

Juggernaut: Currently: Gain might and stability while wielding a flamethrower. New: Interval extended to 5s, stab duration increased to 4s, might stacks increased from 1 to 2 to reflect larger interval. Effect extended to wielding Pistol mainhand & Rifle as well. Now in combat only. Now: The five second interval until the boons are given are now always reset to 0 from any interruption from wielding a weapon/kit that's affected by this trait. (Note: This 5 second wait time reset is designed to make this trait less effective for Elixir S, Photon Forge, or other non-flamethrower kits, preventing those users from gaining Stability until a full 5s interval has passed on re-entering.)

Skilled Marksman: Currently: 10% increased attack speed and 20% reduced cooldown on Rifle. New: Instead, each rifle skill is enhanced.

• Hip Shot: now applies cripple for one second when flanking.
• Net Shot: Increased velocity by 50%.
• Blunderbus: gains a second ammunition, but recharge increased to 15s.
• Overcharged Shot: Further CC effects on the foes hit by this ability will not overwrite Overcharged Shot's launch until after the effect ends.
• Jump Shot: Added 1s evade.

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Rezzet.3614 said:Revenant is basically what our rifle would be with elementalist's fire staff auto stats wich is impressive as i crit 4ks in wvw while as engi i crit between 2300 to 2700

@Rezzet.3614 said:our rifle is only semi ok in pvp only and mostly because of either static discharge or holosmith to complement or a mix of both. By itself rifle is too bad to be called a joke.

• Hip Shot: now applies cripple for one second when flanking.
• Net Shot: Increased velocity by 50%.
• Blunderbus: gains a second ammunition, but recharge increased to 15s.
• Overcharged Shot: Further CC effects on the foes hit by this ability will not overwrite Overcharged Shot's launch until after the effect ends.
• Jump Shot: Added 1s evade.

I would love nothing more than seeing your suggestions ingame but i lost hope in Anet already