'Guest' servers - What's happening on our servers now?

First point: This is not a 'my server is better than your server' question. Nor is it a plea to stop the pairing system, as I believe the population isn't there to support the 24 servers separately. It's really about my curiosity if other players who are on guest servers are beginning to feel they have no real 'home' anymore.

Background context: I've been playing WvW for four years or so, and saw the decline in WvW numbers. (yes - pre-pairing I was one of the two people watching over the BL's at odd hours :P ) So I was interested and happy to see the pairings that would bring more players on the maps. At that time, my server was one of the host servers, and we felt it important to recognize that the guest servers were included in any of the gg's that happened when we took and objective or won a battle. Over the weeks our server dropped to guest server status due to reasons including guild transfers to other servers and have remained in guest server status. So - first hand experience of how it feels to be a 'guest' server.

The Here and Now: Since pairing began, I have seen our server's player base decline, and now have maybe two guilds that have a number of wvw players/ organized play. And we still have a number of havoc or roamer players. (I'm aware players/guilds transfer all the time, and our server has had many ups and downs over the years)The interesting thing to me is in looking at the leaderboard rating scores. It has become clear that guest servers will always be guest servers, with no chance to advance to host server levels. I point this out, because I had thought there would be that opportunity to 'advance' your server the same as had been available prior to pairing, and I was a bit taken aback to realize, in reviewing the rating scores, that this could never be.

I've been a staunch member of my server, having been on the same server since day one of GW2. Now, I don't WvW as much, choosing PvE some evenings; I feel no server community, diminished in my eyes down to a few friends. The match strategy driven by whatever the host server decides, whether it was strategies agreed upon (in the past) by our server or not. Not to mention no voice communications that promote server coordination, since the voice communication takes place on host server channels - where the people change every couple of months. (you play with new people a couple of months, then move on to another server - new people, rinse /repeat)

For these reasons, I ask these questions: Is there a point to keeping the guest servers? Is there still server loyalty on these servers? Or, on the positive side -are you enjoying the opportunity to team with new players every couple of months and play in different tiers at times?

I'm struggling with this and my own server loyalty. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy WvW with my friends. But part of the WvW great experience for me was 'fighting for the greater good', and knowing our efforts would help out our server. I guess that's still there, but the 'our server' just changes all the time, and we're as likely to be fighting against 'our server' in the next pairing. I'm curious how fellow guest server WvW'ers are feeling.

This was a long post, but I wanted to express my thoughts well enough to give context to the question.

1: Without numbers from Anet, we don't know if it's working as intended.

2: I'm on DR, don't know about loyalty anymore as I gave up on it during the last exodus and didn't agree with how they wanted to move forward. I only see a few from one guild play WvW anymore.

3: I see it as a free transfer every 2 months. Some of the hosts we're OK and some are down right shameful. I just wish we had some way to select on the pairing.

So for the time being, our guild is staying on DR until we come across a host server worthy of us or if Anet actually does anything (SOON).

Our link caused chat to degenerate the first 2 weeks, and that was just amongst themselves. They only play on EB, so much so that reset night went from being 20 or so in que to 80 last night. They will let enemies take a fully sieged T3 tower while they Ktrain a paper tower on the other side of the map when they are the only tag. The few of us trying to get into towers being sieged by the 40+ JQ blob just can't get in alone. When asked if they are responding to the T3 tower we get responses like DGAF.Our guilds have mostly been playing the borderlands because our link has guilds that won't touch them.

They fight ok, have some decent commanders who DO respond to callouts, but the link system just isn't really working anymore. Some of the pairings have been down right dreadful.

When I moved from a guest server to a host server, my time in WvW became much more enjoyable.-SF had no community as it's own server - the "community" was the host server, and that changed so there's no way to attach without transferring.-Bad comms to good comms...Sometimes, I liked the way a host server played, and I liked it's commanders. Other times...definitely not. In a host server I know the commanders, I know the tactics. In a guest server it's just a roll of the dice. There were times commanders made server links as a guest for me, and times I just didn't wvw because i didn't really like the host server. On a host server I like, the bad times are almost eradicated, I know our comms and i know they're good.-I feel way more proud of CD than i ever did about SF. Not only because CD is rising the ranks this week (;D) but because...that's us! CD!! That's me!...in SF it was always feeling proud of the host server, which I couldn't, because i wasn't in that server, lol.

I have been advocating blowing up the servers and implement a better overall system but it is not popular with devs. They think they knew better without giving a single care about the people who actually playing the game.

As for now, guest servers are just a container, a tool for dev to balance population. At the same time, every low population host has to suffer bad linking decisions every once awhile, which again every once awhile made worse when populations from link transfer after relink.

There are arguments to keep the quest servers:+ They keep servers from dying for playerbase being too stagnant/bad for too long+ They make transferring cheaper and people/guilds can keep looking for right server for them+ Lot of people just transfer every 2 months for 500 gems, meaning anet gets to keep gold to gems amount high, meaning players will buy more gems with real moneybut there are some against too- You can't build communities because people have such an easy way in- Going to t1 is basically suicide because so many bad people/commanders will transfer. also winning has no point

Lets be honest though, people are so used to transferring now that linking permanently is pointless. They would just be paying more gems per transfer and quit the game faster because they run out of gold.

@Ubi.4136 said:Our link caused chat to degenerate the first 2 weeks, and that was just amongst themselves. They only play on EB, so much so that reset night went from being 20 or so in que to 80 last night. They will let enemies take a fully sieged T3 tower while they Ktrain a paper tower on the other side of the map when they are the only tag. The few of us trying to get into towers being sieged by the 40+ JQ blob just can't get in alone. When asked if they are responding to the T3 tower we get responses like DGAF.Our guilds have mostly been playing the borderlands because our link has guilds that won't touch them.

They fight ok, have some decent commanders who DO respond to callouts, but the link system just isn't really working anymore. Some of the pairings have been down right dreadful.

I will not blame them, i was in comms with these guys.They are pretty good but they simply do not like the desert borderlands.I think Arena Net should just do a new poll to see how many ppl would like this borderland to stay.

**Btw TC has now fallen from a full server to Medium. Wonder if we will become a link server soon. Maybe devs can let us know.

@Loosmaster.8263 said:I see it as a free transfer every 2 months>

Pretty much this. I would like to see a return to the low pop days of pre-links, but I think I'm in a pretty tiny minority on that and I also think anet likes to use the links to make matchups more 'fair' so I don't see delinking as a reasonable thing to hope for. And the alternative of just being merged into a host server would be a terrifying lottery. Even if they let linked players choose what server to merge into I'd be sad when the all the other ppl on my server didn't pick the same one . . .With the system set up the way it is now a bad link has a light at the end of the tunnel and even the ending of a good link has the hope of an eventual reunion . . .So the current system is the best one for me . . .

I’ve been on IoJ since launch. Since the introduction of links, I can honestly say, we’ve turned into unicorns, aka mythical beasts. I don’t know how many of you remember but back in launch, IoJ was the place to be if you were NA. It’s a tad bit shameful to get from the place to be, to the place no1 even remembers.Server links are killing the linked servers and I for one, cannot wait for a new system to be introduced. Server identity to hell with, I want something new to be able to get behind and represent.

Please @ArenaNet and thank you!

@Arlette.9684 said:I’m on IoJ and since the introduction of links, I can honestly say, we’ve turned into unicorns, aka mythical beasts. I don’t know how many of you remember but back in launch, IoJ was the place to be if you were NA. It’s a tad bit shameful to get from the place to be, to the place no1 even remembers.Server links are killing the linked servers and I for one, cannot wait for a new system to be introduced. Server identity to hell with, I want something new to be able to get behind and represent.

Please @ArenaNet and thank you!

Wasn't IoJ in t8, along with AR and ET when linking was introduced?

Goal - more ppl playing.Question - is there a study about this with data?

3<

ANet won't get rid of the 'guest' servers because by keeping them ANet is able to flip them around here and there to provide something that they believe is some sort of balance. It's very poorly done obviously because it seems that we still have servers with massive groups all on BL's and other servers (even with links) struggling to cover 2 BL's a lot of the time.

imo it's super crappy linking methodology they're using... I don't say it because I know what they're using... I say this because I see what the results are... crappy, and continued unhappy people still trying to get in there and find the fun.

I could start going back on about how it was and how it could be but anyone that's been here long enough knows that's a waste of breath and typing.. so I won't. Suffice to say... they won't remove linking because it makes them feel like they're managing something, however poorly.

@Ubi.4136 said:Our link caused chat to degenerate the first 2 weeks, and that was just amongst themselves. They only play on EB, so much so that reset night went from being 20 or so in que to 80 last night. They will let enemies take a fully sieged T3 tower while they Ktrain a paper tower on the other side of the map when they are the only tag. The few of us trying to get into towers being sieged by the 40+ JQ blob just can't get in alone. When asked if they are responding to the T3 tower we get responses like DGAF.Our guilds have mostly been playing the borderlands because our link has guilds that won't touch them.

They fight ok, have some decent commanders who DO respond to callouts, but the link system just isn't really working anymore. Some of the pairings have been down right dreadful.

That's exactly why I left our current link server. Having been on a few link servers since they were implemented, I feel that for most the server identity is dead. So glad QOP is on a host server now. It's a shame Anet let this happen.

There is skill in working together. In Ns, we promote this. So, we end up working good with our links.

Sf has been civil, like the link server gom.

but maybe if people left the link servers for main servers, anet will delete the empty servers.

like if ppl from eu went to na and left eu servers, we may get the coverage we all wanted.and then the fights.

It is an odd system. There are definitely benefits, like variety of matchups (NSP having a thicc link and going to T1 back in Sept, and then back to T4 after relinks, or opposite where Desolation went from T5 perma-locked, to T1) but at the same time the servers basically have no community and have no relevance.

The system kind of just acts as a way to ignore the "full" status of servers (maguuma is a perfect example here, dr and sf links have become bandwagons for guilds) or, oppositely, a server receives none and struggles to keep up population and morale due to permanent locks (previously desolation, kodash, jade quarry, etc. blackgate seemingly the only server immune to this because of their raw population and good all-around coverage)

Links also serve as a way for people to simply ignore everything, more or less. As @Ubi.4136 stated their displeasure with Mag links (though I think thats more mag as a whole than their links, lol) guilds can simply go on and do whatever the hell they want because who cares, you're likely gonna be shifted around in 2 months anyway. Theres no real attachment there, where as for ex. JQ or BG have been closed and linkless for so long now that they've developed much more of a community in comparison, in my opinion.

I think Anet sees this though. Theres been a lot of server issues lately and a ton of match manipulation going on (Mag in general, JQ tanking, Kodash tanking, NA T2 "Second Place Wins", Vabbi "fight server", etc) so we'll see what happens in the future. If anything. There is clearly some issues if servers are having to resort to these kind of things.

Thanks for the feedback. Using guest servers to essentially try to rebalance numbers is a strategy, and not necessarily a bad one. (though I agree the methodology isn't perfect) I had remembered a long while back, one of the ideas Anet mentioned (I think?) was consolidating servers, to which there was an outcry of those loyal to their servers who didn't want to give up their server identity, and I was one of those people. Now, it doesn't seem so important.
Anyway. Appreciate the comments. Was interesting to get some interesting viewpoints on this.

@X T D.6458 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:I’m on IoJ and since the introduction of links, I can honestly say, we’ve turned into unicorns, aka mythical beasts. I don’t know how many of you remember but back in launch, IoJ was the place to be if you were NA. It’s a tad bit shameful to get from the place to be, to the place no1 even remembers.Server links are killing the linked servers and I for one, cannot wait for a new system to be introduced. Server identity to hell with, I want something new to be able to get behind and represent.

Please @ArenaNet and thank you!

WvW was there long before linking was introduced, I’m talking about launch and the first year of the game. And yes.

Edit: I now see that a lil typo last night made my comment ambiguous. I’ll edit it for clarity.

@Arlette.9684 said:

@X T D.6458 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:I’m on IoJ and since the introduction of links, I can honestly say, we’ve turned into unicorns, aka mythical beasts. I don’t know how many of you remember but back in launch, IoJ was the place to be if you were NA. It’s a tad bit shameful to get from the place to be, to the place no1 even remembers.Server links are killing the linked servers and I for one, cannot wait for a new system to be introduced. Server identity to hell with, I want something new to be able to get behind and represent.

Please @ArenaNet and thank you!

Well I know what that's like. I was on SoR for close to 2 years from tier 1 all the way down to the bottom. Its never going to be like the first year, populations naturally decrease over time for a variety of reasons.

Milord's Guild [Kazo], and Kings of NA [RISE] liked to transfer periodically (much to some member's frustration), so going to a linked server is probably a good thing. Free transfers. Home is relative, my loyalty lies with who ever is our Lord and Commander.