Norn have no place in Revenant legends ?

Im not a fan im political correctness, like fill a race and gender quota like they did with Kalla (though i have no problem with that case), but for Norn case, a race that the most obsession with "forging a legend" right now don't have a single legend in Revenant kit, among 4 core and 2 expansion legends, Norn have ... norn?! That feel ridiculous! Also i think the next expansion is most likely not related to Norn or Jormag so maybe the next next one ? Do you think we might be able to get a Norn legend even if the next expansion isn't related to the Norn at all ? (Im not sure if Kalla related much to the Crystal Desert ?)

Well, there aren't any asura legends either. (I was going to say there weren't any sylvari legends, but I figure Ventari counts for that.)

I have a suspicion that Asgeir Dragonrender might be in the list of candidates, but they're probably waiting until a norn/Jormag/Shiverpeaks related storyline to link him to.

My bet for the next legend is Asgeir and I don't think the legend has to be directly related to the expansion. As you said - what does Kalla have to do with Elona, Balthazar, the Crystal Desert, Kralkatorrik or anythng in the current story? I'm sure you could think of some half-baked reason to link Asgeir to any potential expansion/plot, the same way you can with Kalla.

Norn expansion.

Norn Legend.

Win-win!

Consider the origin of Revenants in the first place.

Rytlock, the first revenant, was taught such by Glint. The legend he channels is Glint (we never see him use any other legend). The revenants he taught? The charr of the Black Citadel, and they channel Kalla.

Revenants haven't gotten to norn in lore yet, despite the presence of PC revenants. Or they've only just begun, and the teachings haven't spread far yet.

@"draxynnic.3719" said:Well, there aren't any asura legends either. (I was going to say there weren't any sylvari legends, but I figure Ventari counts for that.)

I kind of see the core legends as relating to one of each GW1 release. Prophecies (Ventari), Factions (Shiro), Nightfall (Mallyx), EotN (Jalis). So I would argue all the core are "non-racial legends".

And by that extension, I'd argue only Kalla is a "racial legend" since Glint was more of a "Destiny's Edge legend".

I'm all for some norn and asuran ones in the future I just want them to get a firm grasp on specific concepts working for all game modes. I love the concept of Kalla but going into pvp or wvw with it is a different story and I just don't see anything from anet yet even leading to that ever happening being there has been two balance patches and yet still nothing. So even hoping for a norn or asuran elite spec legend isn't high on priority list if we can't even play ones we already have.

There are plenty of heroes in the lore that revenants simply haven't gotten around to in the limited time (HOT + POF) that they've had. Jora/Svanir are smack-in-the-face obvious in terms of racial equality, Eir if they want to be more current (though I doubt it with the general GW1 throwback theme of the profession). All in good time, I feel.

Really Jora is a no brainer as a revanant legend.

I know Asura also don't have a legend yet, but Asura (and all other race) do not have obsession with "making a legend" like the Norn, so they have it much later or not at all still feel ... ok. But it feel ironic for Norn if they get the same treatment. Of course if the next Revenant legend is not a Norn, it's ok, not that big of a deal, i will still enjoy the game, but still.

I think Asgeir is more suitable for the Norn legend, his deeds is much more badass then Jora, although i do not mind Jora at all, who doesn't love some good old snu snu ?

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Consider the origin of Revenants in the first place.

Rytlock, the first revenant, was taught such by Glint. The legend he channels is Glint (we never see him use any other legend). The revenants he taught? The charr of the Black Citadel, and they channel Kalla.

Revenants haven't gotten to norn in lore yet, despite the presence of PC revenants. Or they've only just begun, and the teachings haven't spread far yet.

@"draxynnic.3719" said:Well, there aren't any asura legends either. (I was going to say there weren't any sylvari legends, but I figure Ventari counts for that.)

Strictly speaking, only Shiro was a member of a playable race out of that group, yes. However, Ventari is essentially a spiritual father to the sylvari, and Mallyx, being one of Abaddon's generals, is therefore linked to human mythology. So I think it's reasonable to say that Shiro and Mallyx are sourced from human history and legends, while Ventari is sourced from sylvari. (Odds are, the only reason he had enough impact to become a legend in the first place is because of the Tablet, which would be why all of his stance skills are based around the tablet.)

One could make an argument for Glint and Jalis being linked to humans due to past interactions, but that's more of a stretch. It's probably more accurate to say that both are rooted in Tyria's ancient history.

Now, the theory that there's a legend for the events of each of the GW1 campaigns is one I share - each campaign is an important series of events, and therefore each campaign spawns a legend, although I tend to think that it's Glint that represents Prophecies rather than Ventari. However, given how human-centric most of GW1 was, this does extend to those legends being more closely related to human history than to other races.

@draxynnic.3719 said:One could make an argument for Glint and Jalis being linked to humans due to past interactions, but that's more of a stretch. It's probably more accurate to say that both are rooted in Tyria's ancient history.

One could make an argument for Jalis being tied to the norn too. Norn and dwarves were allies, Jalis particularly allied to some famous norn, and Jalis' involvement in EotN was brought about by the norn contacting them.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:One could make an argument for Glint and Jalis being linked to humans due to past interactions, but that's more of a stretch. It's probably more accurate to say that both are rooted in Tyria's ancient history.

And for asura, really. We saw more of the interactions of the dwarves with humans, but that may well be purely because GW1 was focused on humans.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Consider the origin of Revenants in the first place.

Rytlock, the first revenant, was taught such by Glint. The legend he channels is Glint (we never see him use any other legend). The revenants he taught? The charr of the Black Citadel, and they channel Kalla.

Revenants haven't gotten to norn in lore yet, despite the presence of PC revenants. Or they've only just begun, and the teachings haven't spread far yet.

@"draxynnic.3719" said:Well, there aren't any asura legends either. (I was going to say there weren't any sylvari legends, but I figure Ventari counts for that.)

Being a Revenant is something that can be taught? Is that confirmed in game? If it is...damn, thats pretty stupid if you ask me...allways tought that in order to be become a Revenant you needed some kind of conection to the mists or something, like Rytlock actually went there and found a way to channel Glint powers, probably thanks to the bound that he had with her...but now Anet is telling that someone can teach other to be a Revenant, like you teach someone swing a sword? That kind of ruins the lore behind revenants to me

@Felipe.1807 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Consider the origin of Revenants in the first place.

Rytlock, the first revenant, was taught such by Glint. The legend he channels is Glint (we never see him use any other legend). The revenants he taught? The charr of the Black Citadel, and they channel Kalla.

Revenants haven't gotten to norn in lore yet, despite the presence of PC revenants. Or they've only just begun, and the teachings haven't spread far yet.

@"draxynnic.3719" said:Well, there aren't any asura legends either. (I was going to say there weren't any sylvari legends, but I figure Ventari counts for that.)

It can be taught- never mentioned directly in-game, as most profession lore isn't, but it's something we've known from official sources since before HoT launched.

@"Felipe.1807" said:Being a Revenant is something that can be taught? Is that confirmed in game? If it is...kitten, thats pretty stupid if you ask me...allways tought that in order to be become a Revenant you needed some kind of conection to the mists or something, like Rytlock actually went there and found a way to channel Glint powers, probably thanks to the bound that he had with her...but now Anet is telling that someone can teach other to be a Revenant, like you teach someone swing a sword? That kind of ruins the lore behind revenants to me

That's always been the case though. I mean, the very first mention of revenants in HoT promotions was "Rytlock came back as a revenant and taught others how to be one." Almost with that exact wording.

And it would be rather silly if it couldn't be taught. I mean, ritualists had a similar magic to them, and they taught their teachings down. Even if the teachings was just "this is how you could gain a connection to the Mists so you can become a revenant on your own", that's still teaching how to become a revenant.

@"Atamazon.7062" said:Im not a fan im political correctness, like fill a race and gender quota like they did with Kalla (though i have no problem with that case), but for Norn case, a race that the most obsession with "forging a legend" right now don't have a single legend in Revenant kit, among 4 core and 2 expansion legends, Norn have ... norn?! That feel ridiculous! Also i think the next expansion is most likely not related to Norn or Jormag so maybe the next next one ? Do you think we might be able to get a Norn legend even if the next expansion isn't related to the Norn at all ? (Im not sure if Kalla related much to the Crystal Desert ?)

Well, Kalla wasn't really related to PoF expansion, so why would rev new spec be related to Exp3 theme? So yeah, your point is correct.

Hard to speculate about rev new spec, about any new specs that may come.

Kalla is known as let me call her the "Charr Feminist" and she was only related to Charr lands, to Charr matters, no connection to the Crystal Desert, and obviously not to Elona.

Pretty sure the Renegade elite profession mentor in PoF is an example of an NPC being taught, presumably by Rytlock, and also existing to pass on knowledge to other revenants.

Interestingly though, although Rytlock is credited as being the first revenant by canon, surely your player character is if you play as a rev? After all, you would then meet him as a warrior and witness his transition to revenant while possessing those skills the whole time.

I suspect revenant legends are a case of 'reverse engineering' - they start by deciding what kind of abilities they want to group together and then pick a figure from the game's history and mythology that fits.

With Kalla for example I highly doubt they started off going "Ok, we need to have a female, charr legend. Who can we use?" I think it's more likely they wanted to give revenants short bows and placeable AoE effects and then started thinking about a character to use as a theme. So it's entirely possible we will get a norn legend eventually (and asura, sylvari etc. ones) but it will be when they decide they want to add mechanics that remind them of a legendary norn.

Which also means I think it's unlikely it'll be Jora, because she was a hero in GW1 so she used all the same skills players could have, which are pretty similar to GW2 warrior skills. I doubt they'd want to add a legend which basically turns you revenant into a warrior. It's much easier for them to use a character who hasn't been in the games, like Asgeir Dragonrender.

@"Manpag.6421" said:Interestingly though, although Rytlock is credited as being the first revenant by canon, surely your player character is if you play as a rev? After all, you would then meet him as a warrior and witness his transition to revenant while possessing those skills the whole time.

I think the "canonical take" would be that they were of a different profession until taught by Rytlock.

I don't know any Norn whose legends aren't overshadowed by 'heroes' or 'legends' of other races.

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:I don't know any Norn whose legends aren't overshadowed by 'heroes' or 'legends' of other races.

That's because GW2 really, really don't do Norns justice.

We get so little fluff in comparison to the other races.

Norns are supposed to be a Viking-esque culture that celebrates particuarly legendary individuals for generations to come. There should be tons to pick from, but Anet just hates the Norn and don't actually want to explore it.

Which is why my letter to Santa/Satan has "Norn Expansion for GW2" in it.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@"Manpag.6421" said:Interestingly though, although Rytlock is credited as being the first revenant by canon, surely your player character is if you play as a rev? After all, you would then meet him as a warrior and witness his transition to revenant while possessing those skills the whole time.

Yea, during announcement they described Revenants as warriors in the neutral sense, fighters, who followed in Uncle Trombone's steps.So canonically you'd play a warrior, and transition to Revenant.. during or after your hunt of Mordremoth.Since there's no real window of time until after Mordremoth's death its kind of hard to place the class' transition...

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:I don't know any Norn whose legends aren't overshadowed by 'heroes' or 'legends' of other races.

Even when playing EotN there few legends, and fewer inbetween.I remember one name.. well not the name but the mentioning, of a Norn who got mentioned a lot by the lorescribes of the Norn..Gonna have to look it up.

I am at least of the opinion that Jora is the furthest thing from a legend.She primarily just a mess of things with her brother and needed us to fix that mess..

I'd love to see Eir's Stance- and with that we would be able to summon The Spirits of the Wild. That would be amazing.

I'm just here to say.. Jora, and Snaff. I'm sure they'll be added in time.