On "Secret" Healers in Fractals

So, you want to run a healing build in fractals, but you're not a druid. That's okay! But... you do need to tell your party you're doing that. Let's break down some possibilities:

1. You're scared of being kicked for running a non-druid healer. This could happen! But the same types of people who might do that? They're almost certainly running DPS meters. They can see your pitiful healer DPS. Better to be upfront about being a healer than to hope to squeak by as a terrible, terrible DPS.
2. There's another healer in the group. Maybe they'll want to stay heals; maybe they're happy to go DPS. But by avoiding that conversation, you're slowing the group down, because two healers is overkill, and is subtracting one member's worth of DPS.
3. You were only planning to heal yourself, to try and survive to the end of the run. That's not cool. I'm not saying that was your intention, but by not telling people you're a healer... you do raise that suspicion a little bit.

Do the right thing. If people wouldn't guess you're a healer from your class icon, please identify yourself as one. It speeds everything up in the long run.

Maybe people should get rid of the mentality that druid is the only viable healer instead?

@Raizel.8175 said:Maybe people should get rid of the mentality that druid is the only viable healer instead?

OP's not saying Druid is the only viable healer, and most smart people know well enough that Druid isn't the only viable healer (best in terms of sustained healing and offensive support, sure). The issue is when people join in on a healing Guard, Support Rev, or Auramancer and see there's a Druid in party already and they don't say anything. Let the people you are running with know you're a healer. I don't mind taking a healer through if they can keep me topped off, but running two healers, as the OP said, just slows down the group as a whole.

@Vyriis.6258 said:

@Raizel.8175 said:Maybe people should get rid of the mentality that druid is the only viable healer instead?

Id argue firebrand and rev and tempest all has just as strong if not stronger sustained healing and or burst.

But neither of them have damage buffs and healing druid is overkill anyways. Waste of a dps slot.

People can run whatever they want in whatever quantity they want in unmarked pugs. If you care so much about composition, you should include it in the LFG and talk to people when they join. If you just list "t4s" or whatever then you should be prepared for literally anything and work through it. Fractals are so easy anyway with 5 players that it really doesn't matter what you run so long as you're good at it.

I usually don't care whatever ppl bring. I don't even hv my dps meter on :p. If group fail fractal I will leave very quickly. Its fractal.. not hard. But I like to run with meta group.

@Raizel.8175 said:Maybe people should get rid of the mentality that druid is the only viable healer instead?

But it is the optimal healer. It has all the healing you need (more healing is overkill), provides might, cc, spirit buffs, empowerment, stability/aoe rezz (nature spirit)there is not a single reason to run something else

OP is clear about the message:

@Sister Saxifrage.7361 said:tell your party

The rest is commentary about why it's a good idea in the case of an off-meta healer. However, it's sensible advice generally: don't keep your secret plan a secret — there are four others in your fractal party (9 others in your raid) and what you do matters to them, too.

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@"Raizel.8175" said:Maybe people should get rid of the mentality that druid is the only viable healer instead?

There is other reasons :

• the fun to play another healer class & maybe you dislike the druid theme / mechanics. On WoW I took the healer class I like the most, why i couldn't do the same here ? Oh, because the game isn't correctly balanced ? Not my problem. It's a problem for the community, and therefore a pressure on anet.
• because when you created your character, you read on the official character creation page that "Guardians specialize in protective and defensive magic" (today it's still officially written), and you heard that guardian is a mix of Monk & Parangon from GW1, you know the healer & support classes. Now you have a guardian you created to be a support/healer, and you will heal whatever the meta boyz say, it's Anet mistake if the beastmaster hunter class is more optimal now.

Don't play healer druid. Play guardian, rev, ele, the class you really want to play. The community & especially the meta boyz will complain on the forum and Anet will be forced to balance support characters.

Couldn't agree more. Communication is key. Most are far more understanding when you are being honest.You wish to play something people did not ask for or wouldn't expect? Tell them about it. They prefer for you to play a more commonly accepted build? Suck it up and relog or leave. Look for another group or make your own. All there is to it.

@Vyriis.6258 said:

@Raizel.8175 said:Maybe people should get rid of the mentality that druid is the only viable healer instead?

But that is exactly what it boils down to. That druid is considered the main-healer ("You're not a druid-healer, bla bla bla") in this game because it's so utterly op.

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Raizel.8175 said:Maybe people should get rid of the mentality that druid is the only viable healer instead?

Yup, and that's why this spec (alongside Chrono of course) has to be nerfed to the ground to make alternatives viable. This game suffers heavily from balance-issues.

@Henry.5713 said:Couldn't agree more. Communication is key. Most are far more understanding when you are being honest.You wish to play something people did not ask for or wouldn't expect? Tell them about it. They prefer for you to play a more commonly accepted build? Suck it up and relog or leave. Look for another group or make your own. All there is to it.

Again, this game needs more diversity and a smarter community. There are several non-meta-builds that still perform well and often offer more stability that your narrow-minded meta-stuff.

@"Rising Dusk.2408" said:People can run whatever they want in whatever quantity they want in unmarked pugs. If you care so much about composition, you should include it in the LFG and talk to people when they join. If you just list "t4s" or whatever then you should be prepared for literally anything and work through it. Fractals are so easy anyway with 5 players that it really doesn't matter what you run so long as you're good at it.

Nuff said.

/thread

@Raizel.8175 said:

@Vyriis.6258 said:

@Raizel.8175 said:Maybe people should get rid of the mentality that druid is the only viable healer instead?

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Raizel.8175 said:Maybe people should get rid of the mentality that druid is the only viable healer instead?

@Henry.5713 said:Couldn't agree more. Communication is key. Most are far more understanding when you are being honest.You wish to play something people did not ask for or wouldn't expect? Tell them about it. They prefer for you to play a more commonly accepted build? Suck it up and relog or leave. Look for another group or make your own. All there is to it.

Whether there are any viable builds outside of the META is beside the point nor did anyone in this discussion say there weren't.Arguing with pug groups, groups which often consist of multiple friends, is a complete waste of time as they usually already have their minds set on something.Even more so if they intend to clear this content quickly and thus do not plan to take part in lessons about why the META isn't all there is.

@"Rising Dusk.2408" said:People can run whatever they want in whatever quantity they want in unmarked pugs. If you care so much about composition, you should include it in the LFG and talk to people when they join. If you just list "t4s" or whatever then you should be prepared for literally anything and work through it. Fractals are so easy anyway with 5 players that it really doesn't matter what you run so long as you're good at it.

This is technically true, but PUGs still have a goal: complete dailies in a timely manner. Not pulling your weight as a DPS, even if it's by running a support build - IF that support is redundant, you're hindering the goal instead of contributing to it. They may be just a PUG but they still deserve to have relevant information communicated to them.

@Scipion.7548 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@"Raizel.8175" said:Maybe people should get rid of the mentality that druid is the only viable healer instead?

• the fun to play another healer class & maybe you dislike the druid theme / mechanics. On WoW I took the healer class I like the most, why i couldn't do the same here ? Oh, because the game isn't correctly balanced ? Not my problem. It's a problem for the community, and therefore a pressure on anet.
• because when you created your character, you read on the official character creation page that "Guardians specialize in protective and defensive magic" (today it's still officially written), and you heard that guardian is a mix of Monk & Parangon from GW1, you know the healer & support classes. Now you have a guardian you created to be a support/healer, and you will heal whatever the meta boyz say, it's Anet mistake if the beastmaster hunter class is more optimal now.

These are the reasons why you'd want to play that. But you still need to convince the people who asked for a druid that your fun is more important than their smooth run. Not that you can't have a smooth run with another healer, but the position you'd be is rather awkward. It will be very hard not to look selfish in this situation.

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Scipion.7548 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@"Raizel.8175" said:Maybe people should get rid of the mentality that druid is the only viable healer instead?

• the fun to play another healer class & maybe you dislike the druid theme / mechanics. On WoW I took the healer class I like the most, why i couldn't do the same here ? Oh, because the game isn't correctly balanced ? Not my problem. It's a problem for the community, and therefore a pressure on anet.
• because when you created your character, you read on the official character creation page that "Guardians specialize in protective and defensive magic" (today it's still officially written), and you heard that guardian is a mix of Monk & Parangon from GW1, you know the healer & support classes. Now you have a guardian you created to be a support/healer, and you will heal whatever the meta boyz say, it's Anet mistake if the beastmaster hunter class is more optimal now.

I would argue that if your time is really so important you could accept now a non-druid healer and go fractal instead of waiting 5min or more and finishing the fractal only 2min more quickly.

@Scipion.7548 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Scipion.7548 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@"Raizel.8175" said:Maybe people should get rid of the mentality that druid is the only viable healer instead?

• the fun to play another healer class & maybe you dislike the druid theme / mechanics. On WoW I took the healer class I like the most, why i couldn't do the same here ? Oh, because the game isn't correctly balanced ? Not my problem. It's a problem for the community, and therefore a pressure on anet.
• because when you created your character, you read on the official character creation page that "Guardians specialize in protective and defensive magic" (today it's still officially written), and you heard that guardian is a mix of Monk & Parangon from GW1, you know the healer & support classes. Now you have a guardian you created to be a support/healer, and you will heal whatever the meta boyz say, it's Anet mistake if the beastmaster hunter class is more optimal now.

And how do I know we're not going to wipe dozens of times because of said non-druid healer? It's not just about the healing, it's about all the druid takes care of - cc, offensive buffs, etc. What are the chances for the guy who plays off-meta to really be experienced player who actually knows all they are supposed to handle and actually doing that?

@Nephalem.8921 said:But neither of them have damage buffs and healing druid is overkill anyways. Waste of a dps slot.

Harrier Renegade have better heals than Druid and he can also bring perma 25 might.Instead of +150 precision Renegade can give +225 Ferocity wich is +15% crit dmg. I would say that's a better offensive buff.

The most important different are the spirits. While Druid can bring Frostspirit wich gives a 70% chance to do 10% more dmg, Renegade bring his Elite Spirit wich grants ~400 life leech every hit. They are hard to compare since Arcdps don't show/calculate life leech dmg.Additional to this Renegade also bring perma Alacrity, which could either help the Chrono or make this slot viable to take a Firebrand instead for example.Also Renegade brings perma Protection. It's not an offensive buff but its just a trait, Druid have to take the stonespirit = utility slot for this.

PS. I know Druid have Sunspirit too, but guys here were talking about Fractals and there are mostly physical dmg classes so Sunspirit would be useless there.

@Karaha.3290 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:But neither of them have damage buffs and healing druid is overkill anyways. Waste of a dps slot.

Druid has cc which rev only has on staff. Druid brings 75% chance to deal 10% more dmg and 10% more dmg with GOE during breakbars. He could also play power, pick up a LH and have good dps during breakbars while providing all those buffs and help with heals if somebody got hit.Perma alacrity is usually already covered by the Chrono. It is of course possible to run in t4s but only if you tell your group before and build the rest around it. And you forget the most important role druid has in fracs: vuln stacking.Without a druid you need Holo, Necro or something like that to cap vuln. Or enough dps to kill everything during Lightning Storm. A full healer is just overkill most of the time. It sure helps with Mai trin but at other bosses he doesn't really do anything in a good grp most of the time. Players are just used to facetank everything now.

@Raizel.8175 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Raizel.8175 said:Maybe people should get rid of the mentality that druid is the only viable healer instead?

there will always be an optimal class for everything. unless anet just makes differences between classes cosmetic. Everyone does the same with just different animations. Sounds boring to me.

But ....but.... i like my Seraph Herald :(

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQJApsnfNmNSuJzJRHlNlskyoS4S5UJorMskFUlJNgCSYtlbyx+81rH-jxBhAB8qHgyTAQwKB37BA4r6PAr8Dg9HEFgfB-e

Perma Protection + Regen + Fury to every1

• 4/5 Alacrity
• offhand sword for the cc (Malyx + spamm Spacejump (Unyielding Anguish) for the overkill breakbars)
• 15 Might (Mace 2nd and 3rd combo + spamm the healing + Facet)
• 1200 selfhealing every sec (+45% to others)
• Natural Harmony - 56oo to other , every 3 sec)
• 3-3.5 k dps per sec with the Mace 2nd+3rd , and when i switch to Demon stance and the ulti tongled on , i get 6k (without might)
• If my team8s have the nerve to die , i get the Versed of Stone from the retribution line and i stay in front of the boss ,looking at him till i drop to 50% and the trait activates

I could play the Weaver , for the same gdamage and the healing (+12 Vulnebility) , in order to have more radius if my team8s are more spaced out .

• swtich like a madman between Earth>Fire> Water and do Healing + Might combos
  • use the Primodial Stance + Glyph of elemental power for the extra Burns ....

but spamming 2+ 3 + healing + 7th spell on revenant is easier :P

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAsYnk4CFNgF5CuMAM5ilUAjIA0AWi3d5xcbu4JOB2AA-jxhGQBA4BAsSlgDZDAUq+j/OBAqU5naWfQUA+F-e

I only liked Pug raids in other games (because you didnt need metas + watching -reading guides (loosing its ''magic'') .And now each pug need to ping 200+ LI kai KP and whatever the currency is called , that normally is stored to be used and buy items ...

In random pug groups, I almost never encounter a secret healer, let alone one that would continue to be a healer while a druid or announced tempest/firebrand/renegade was in the party. I'm going to call shenanigans on this thread.

SHENANIGANS!!!

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Karaha.3290 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:But neither of them have damage buffs and healing druid is overkill anyways. Waste of a dps slot.

I already liste Frostspirit and what Renegade have instead (Elite Spirit). (Maybe not in Fractals but if you have another Ranger he could take Frostspirit wihtout loosing too much dps).Well i forgot GOE, but it's not permanent. Assassins Presence for example gives you +15% crit dmg and its permanent.

Revenant don't only has cc on staff (however staff 5 is realy heavy cc), there is also soft cc like chill and imobility on sword or you take axe if you really need cc.Darkrazor's also do aoe cc and Ventaris elite have a knockback (plus sweet heal/condi cleans). Maybe it's less cc than Druid but its not useless.

You talk about Storm Spirit for vuln stacking right? According to my experience they are very rare in use in pug groups, only see them in certains groups as standard equipment. But maybe thats only me i don't know.Revenant can uphold 13 vuln permanently alone. It's not cap but it's the half and other Classes also have vuln skills.Guardians have Symbolid Exposure for example, inflicting vuln every symbol tick.However even without Storm Spirit i never had trouble with vuln, it's always on cap in fractals.

"He could also play power, pick up a LH and have good dps during breakbars while providing all those buffs and help with heals if somebody got hit." also counts for Revenant.

"It is of course possible to run in t4s but only if you tell your group before and build the rest around it."Isn't it the same with Druid? You also have to build the rest around it expect its already meta and noone recognize it.You need a Chrono for Alacrity for example. There is no way taking a Firebrand + Druid without loosing Alacrity.

However even if Renegade is not the "best support healer" he is more than good enough so that it won't make a big change in any Fractal.

@Karaha.3290 said:

You talk about Storm Spirit for vuln stacking right? According to my experience they are very rare in use in pug groups, only see them in certains groups as standard equipment. But maybe thats only me i don't know.Mainly warhorn 4. Axe 5 and Longbow 2. Only 2 can be used together but druid can spike vuln on adds in a sec which rev cant do. Also the 3 arcane weaver chaos chrono comp can't do that either.

Not having GOE or Frost Spirit is actually huge since most dps happens during broken state. AP is good but i'm not sure how much the difference between Spotter and Ap is.Taking whatever in non meta pugs doesn't really matter because people don't play druid how it should be played in fractals and like to waste GoE as heal or at random moments.Skorvald for example can be killed completely stunned if you have very high dps. This means almost 100% uptime on GoE during dps phases. Druid is just way more versatile than Rev but my point was not that Druid is a better healer. It was that druid heal is already too much most of the time and you take it more for the utility instead of healing output. Most players in t4 right now don't even try to dodge stuff anymore and just aa facetank everything to the point something like a heal rev is required for success.But bosses like Arkk, skorvald or siax really don't need a healer. Everything can be avoided there.

Healing roles in fractals besides druid right now have the same problem ranger had pre hot. It's not that the professions are bad just so many bad players play stuff like heal ele that it came to a point you would rather kick them instantly instead of hoping to have a decent one.