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P/P is too powerful


Eddbopkins.2630

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P/p 3 needs to take up double initiative or something, being able to do 15k+ burst from litterally standing still and pressing litterally 1 button kills any opportunity of this game being fun and skillfull.

Its a great starter or finisher to a rotation but doing nothing but 3 for 15k+ is no fun or fair to fight against in a team fight.

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@"Yannir.4132" said:What ever happened to "projectile hate" in this game?Who have projectile hate rn? Shortly ... firebrand f3 bubble(outside is shield5),druid staff 5.Thats all i could find from 'metabattle meta builds' . If you ever see scraper he have personal dome . Not that many or I forgot something ?

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@Eddbopkins.2630 said:P/p 3 needs to take up double initiative or something, being able to do 15k+ burst from litterally standing still and pressing litterally 1 button kills any opportunity of this game being fun and skillfull.

Its a great starter or finisher to a rotation but doing nothing but 3 for 15k+ is no fun or fair to fight against in a team fight.

dodge, u let him blow a full unload on you he gains all his ini back more or less

think it cost 3 ini (w/e it cost doesnt matter) he gains 2? back if he lands all hits +1 prolly during animation easy! perma unload.i love doing this bullshit burst in PvE on deadeye perma mark crap 1 unload to kill shit perma quickness up wooohoo..tho, in PvP or wvw this build is so lame, whoever plays it isnt looking for a challange its just looking for fucking easy kills or trying to piss people off..

think only counter to this is like i told u, dodge and if hes retarded enough he will spam all his ini away, tho hide and run. and repeat.

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Looks like ventari support might help you. But yeah, pp thief is hardly a big offender. Close to no sustain, very little utility. And it is single target, with shitloads of projectile hate in game. I killed a p/p thief last night only reflecting his unload.

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@Odik.4587 said:

@"Yannir.4132" said:What ever happened to "projectile hate" in this game?Who have projectile hate rn? Shortly ... firebrand f3 bubble(outside is shield5),druid staff 5.Thats all i could find from 'metabattle meta builds' . If you ever see scraper he have personal dome . Not that many or I forgot something ?

This is a link to all the skills just having REFLECT and it fare more then just Firebrand. There at least 25 skills/traits here

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reflect

There also a multitude of skills that block projectiles with a multitude restricted to projectiles. While there no skills traits that block only Phyisical attacks while letting projectiles hit, there a number that block only projectiles. (ie winds of disenchantment)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

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@babazhook.6805 said:

@"Yannir.4132" said:What ever happened to "projectile hate" in this game?
Who have projectile hate rn
? Shortly ... firebrand f3 bubble(outside is shield5),druid staff 5.Thats all i could find from
'metabattle meta builds'
. If you ever see scraper he have personal dome . Not that many or I forgot something ?

This is a link to all the skills just having REFLECT and it fare more then just Firebrand. There at least 25 skills/traits here

There also a multitude of skills that block projectiles with a multitude restricted to projectiles. While there no skills traits that block only Phyisical attacks while letting projectiles hit, there a number that block only projectiles. (ie winds of disenchantment)

You are blind my friend ? Mentioned only stuff that included in metabattle builds (assuming people playing them,instead of less effective builds)Not counting any block because its not projectile hate but blocking all hits thats are not unblockable.Why I did that... ? To point that not everyone have them on demand
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@Odik.4587 said:

@"Yannir.4132" said:What ever happened to "projectile hate" in this game?
Who have projectile hate rn
? Shortly ... firebrand f3 bubble(outside is shield5),druid staff 5.Thats all i could find from
'metabattle meta builds'
. If you ever see scraper he have personal dome . Not that many or I forgot something ?

This is a link to all the skills just having REFLECT and it fare more then just Firebrand. There at least 25 skills/traits here

There also a multitude of skills that block projectiles with a multitude restricted to projectiles. While there no skills traits that block only Phyisical attacks while letting projectiles hit, there a number that block only projectiles. (ie winds of disenchantment)

You are blind my friend ? Mentioned only stuff that included in metabattle builds (assuming people playing them,instead of less effective builds)Not counting any block because its not projectile hate but blocking all hits thats are not unblockable.Why I did that... ? To point that not everyone have them on demand

Who cares what metta battle details? You suggested that there no projectile hate in the game. Why the heck would you use meta battle as a reference?

If there few builds on Metabattle that integrate some form of projectile hate into their build it suggests they are really all not that concerned about a p/p thif does it not?

I can go throigh mettabattle and find a whole pile of builds lacking condition cleanses. It hardly suggests there no condition cleanses available to the various professions.

Meta battle builds are NOT more effective. If you are dying to a p/p thief cause because you are using builds from Meta battle that do not use blocks or refelcts then it on you.

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@reddie.5861 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:P/p 3 needs to take up double initiative or something, being able to do 15k+ burst from litterally standing still and pressing litterally 1 button kills any opportunity of this game being fun and skillfull.

Its a great starter or finisher to a rotation but doing nothing but 3 for 15k+ is no fun or fair to fight against in a team fight.

dodge, u let him blow a full unload on you he gains all his ini back more or less

think it cost 3 ini (w/e it cost doesnt matter) he gains 2? back if he lands all hits +1 prolly during animation easy! perma unload.i love doing this kitten burst in PvE on deadeye perma mark crap 1 unload to kill kitten perma quickness up wooohoo..tho, in PvP or wvw this build is so lame, whoever plays it isnt looking for a challange its just looking for kitten easy kills or trying to kitten people off..

think only counter to this is like i told u, dodge and if hes kitten enough he will spam all his ini away, tho hide and run. and repeat.

Unload is 5 ini with a 2 ini refund IF THE entire chain hits. The full channel of unload is 1.5 seconds meaning even if hit by the initial shots there still plenty of time to react and ensure the rest of the channel does not get through.

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@"Eddbopkins.2630" said:P/p 3 needs to take up double initiative or something, being able to do 15k+ burst from litterally standing still and pressing litterally 1 button kills any opportunity of this game being fun and skillfull.

Its a great starter or finisher to a rotation but doing nothing but 3 for 15k+ is no fun or fair to fight against in a team fight.

Oh look everyone, it's our daily qq thread about how thief is broken because "3 spam is op" even though the build is bad and easily defeated by pressing any reflect button 1 time.

Also "3 spam" is actually NOT 1 button, it's mark which does have a cast time on DE, and THEN 3, which is again easily counterable in a plethora of ways that we've gone over ad nauseum.

@babazhook.6805 said:

@"Eddbopkins.2630" said:P/p 3 needs to take up double initiative or something, being able to do 15k+ burst from litterally standing still and pressing litterally 1 button kills any opportunity of this game being fun and skillfull.

Its a great starter or finisher to a rotation but doing nothing but 3 for 15k+ is no fun or fair to fight against in a team fight.

dodge, u let him blow a full unload on you he gains all his ini back more or less

think it cost 3 ini (w/e it cost doesnt matter) he gains 2? back if he lands all hits +1 prolly during animation easy! perma unload.i love doing this kitten burst in PvE on deadeye perma mark crap 1 unload to kill kitten perma quickness up wooohoo..tho, in PvP or wvw this build is so lame, whoever plays it isnt looking for a challange its just looking for kitten easy kills or trying to kitten people off..

think only counter to this is like i told u, dodge and if hes kitten enough he will spam all his ini away, tho hide and run. and repeat.

Unload is 5 ini with a 2 ini refund IF THE entire chain hits. The full channel of unload is 1.5 seconds meaning even if hit by the initial shots there still plenty of time to react and ensure the rest of the channel does not get through.

Nonono don't try to reason with people, being the only build in the game that actually dies to a single defensive ability (any reflect) is OP in their minds because "OMG 3 SPAM OP"

Jesus christ people grow a fucking sack and learn to counter builds that are easily countered> @Odik.4587 said:

@"Yannir.4132" said:What ever happened to "projectile hate" in this game?
Who have projectile hate rn
? Shortly ... firebrand f3 bubble(outside is shield5),druid staff 5.Thats all i could find from
'metabattle meta builds'
. If you ever see scraper he have personal dome . Not that many or I forgot something ?

This is a link to all the skills just having REFLECT and it fare more then just Firebrand. There at least 25 skills/traits here

There also a multitude of skills that block projectiles with a multitude restricted to projectiles. While there no skills traits that block only Phyisical attacks while letting projectiles hit, there a number that block only projectiles. (ie winds of disenchantment)

You are blind my friend ? Mentioned only stuff that included in metabattle builds (assuming people playing them,instead of less effective builds)Not counting any block because its not projectile hate but blocking all hits thats are not unblockable.Why I did that... ? To point that not everyone have them on demand

Not every build has 9 clones on the map at a given time either, but at least p/p thief DOES have MANY NUMBERS OF COUNTERS, why are people whining about something that is easily countered? Give me one valid reason why your inability to carry and activate a single projectile defensive ability, which would defeat this entire build by itself, makes p/p thief OP?

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@"Legatus.3608" said:Oh look everyone, it's our daily qq thread about how thief is broken because "3 spam is op" even though the build is bad and easily defeated by pressing any reflect .

So you either reflect or get 100 -0 in a second? Is this what it comes down to? This is the problem with the gw2 community, that you have people who defend this type of game play. I don't care what class it is, you should not be able to 100 - 0 a player within in a second, let alone just pressing ONE button. Its not just a "thief" thing. Damage across the board needs to be toned down significantly and firebrand needs to NOT be a healer.

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@Aza.2105 said:

@"Legatus.3608" said:Oh look everyone, it's our daily qq thread about how thief is broken because "3 spam is op" even though the build is bad and easily defeated by pressing any reflect .

So you either reflect or get 100 -0 in a second? Is this what it comes down to? This is the problem with the gw2 community, that you have people who defend this type of game play. I don't care what class it is, you should not be able to 100 - 0 a player within in a second, let alone just pressing ONE button. Its not just a "thief" thing. Damage across the board needs to be toned down significantly and firebrand needs to NOT be a healer.

Implying that reflect is the only way to defeat the build now? We listed the number of ways to defeat the build, THEY ARE QUITE NUMEROUS, and the build itself is trash tier. I'm getting really fucking tired of people whining because they failed to press one of the 16+ buttons on their skill bar to prevent death. THE ONLY reason I even brought up reflect is because reflect outright DEFEATS the build by using a defensive ability.

Name one other build in gw2 that LITERALLY dies instantly from full hp because it attacked into a defensive ability?

I'm sorry but this isn't a case of defending a build like chronomancer which is obviously op and has no real counter, this is a build with A GODDAMN MULTITUDE of EASILY EXECUTED COUNTERS, and your failure to use any of them is on you, not on the opponent, not on thief mains, and certainly not on anet's balance team for making a build that is easily countered but people are not smart enough to do it.

Why should the game be balanced around your inability to activate a counter to a build? "BUT AH DON'T WHANT TAH PRESS MAH COUNTA PISTAHLS BUTTON" is not an excuse to nerf a build.

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@babazhook.6805 said:

@"Yannir.4132" said:What ever happened to "projectile hate" in this game?
Who have projectile hate rn
? Shortly ... firebrand f3 bubble(outside is shield5),druid staff 5.Thats all i could find from
'metabattle meta builds'
. If you ever see scraper he have personal dome . Not that many or I forgot something ?

This is a link to all the skills just having REFLECT and it fare more then just Firebrand. There at least 25 skills/traits here

There also a multitude of skills that block projectiles with a multitude restricted to projectiles. While there no skills traits that block only Phyisical attacks while letting projectiles hit, there a number that block only projectiles. (ie winds of disenchantment)

You are blind my friend ? Mentioned only stuff that included in metabattle builds (assuming people playing them,instead of less effective builds)Not counting any block because its not projectile hate but blocking all hits thats are not unblockable.Why I did that... ? To point that not everyone have them on demand

Who cares what metta battle details? You suggested that there no projectile hate in the game. Why the heck would you use meta battle as a reference?

If there few builds on Metabattle that integrate some form of projectile hate into their build it suggests they are really all not that concerned about a p/p thif does it not?

I can go throigh mettabattle and find a whole pile of builds lacking condition cleanses. It hardly suggests there no condition cleanses available to the various professions.

Meta battle builds are NOT more effective. If you are dying to a p/p thief cause because you are using builds from Meta battle that do not use blocks or refelcts then it on you.

You talking nonsense tbh . Read bold text that i gave you or ask anyone who can :)Why builds lacking condi cleanse... Because only scourge is condi build and all other condi builds are trash and its meta of power builds ?Why would anyone being concerned about P/P thief that considered garbage but as you can see effective on 'average' level of players just by spamming one button (actually thief players known for repeatetive using of one skill lul).Because they dont have projectile hate to save you from p/p thief on your 1300 rating doesnt mean they are not most effective (metabattle not always correct tho). If you dont understand that... R I PAnd I never said i'm dying to this kind of thieves .

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@Legatus.3608 said:Not every build has 9 clones on the map at a given time either, but at least p/p thief DOES have MANY NUMBERS OF COUNTERS, why are people whining about something that is easily countered? Give me one valid reason why your inability to carry and activate a single projectile defensive ability, which would defeat this entire build by itself, makes p/p thief OP?I dont have 9 clones up either ?I thought thats simple , not everyone have 'projectile defensive ability' on demand ?Even if they nerf that 'noob killer' build that wont affect PvP at all or PvE (idk what ppl do in wvw tho).You seems to care a lot ,playing it as well ?I'm not even complaining about it ,merely arguing and I get p/p teefs jump on me on forum ,geez xD

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@Odik.4587 said:

@"Legatus.3608" said:Not every build has 9 clones on the map at a given time either, but at least p/p thief DOES have MANY NUMBERS OF COUNTERS, why are people whining about something that is easily countered? Give me one valid reason why your inability to carry and activate a single projectile defensive ability, which would defeat this entire build by itself, makes p/p thief OP?I dont have 9 clones up either ?I thought thats simple , not everyone have 'projectile defensive ability' on demand ? If i play then I know i'm not playing against potatoes that trying to spam unload me to death ,even if i would know I wouldnt change anything on build I'm playing .Even if they nerf that 'noob killer' build that wont affect PvP at all or PvE (idk what ppl do in wvw tho).You seems to care a lot ,playing it as well ?I'm not even complaining about it ,merely arguing and I get p/p teefs jump on me on forum ,geez xD

Chronomancer DOES have the ability to have 9 clones/phantasms up on the screen. We have screenshots on these forums.

You do not NEED to run projectile hate to defeat pistols thief, any combination of 2 of dodge, block, invuln, cc or reflect will BREAK this build. Reflect doesn't just "beat" the build, will actually KILL this build. Focus fire will KILL this build without using a single defensive ability.

There's a difference between a build having counters and a counter actually killing a build in a single activation - as reflect does here. This again separates pistols thief apart as a terrible shit build.

Again answer my question: why should the game be balanced around your inability to execute any number of obvious counters to a build? I personally couldn't give a shit less about them nerfing unload, but I sure as fuck won't sit around listening to a bunch of crybabies on forums asking for nerfs to a build that ISN'T GOOD.

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@Legatus.3608 said:

@Legatus.3608 said:Not every build has 9 clones on the map at a given time either, but at least p/p thief DOES have MANY NUMBERS OF COUNTERS, why are people whining about something that is easily countered? Give me one valid reason why your inability to carry and activate a single projectile defensive ability, which would defeat this entire build by itself, makes p/p thief OP?I dont have 9 clones up either ?I thought thats simple , not everyone have 'projectile defensive ability' on demand ? If i play then I know i'm not playing against potatoes that trying to spam unload me to death ,even if i would know I wouldnt change anything on build I'm playing .Even if they nerf that 'noob killer' build that wont affect PvP at all or PvE (idk what ppl do in wvw tho).You seems to care a lot ,playing it as well ?I'm not even complaining about it ,merely arguing and I get p/p teefs jump on me on forum ,geez xD

Chronomancer DOES have the ability to have 9 clones/phantasms up on the screen. We have screenshots on these forums.

You do not NEED to run projectile hate to defeat pistols thief, any combination of 2 of dodge, block, invuln, cc or reflect will BREAK this build. Reflect will actually KILL this build. Focus fire will KILL this build without using a single defensive ability.

Again answer my question: why should the game be balanced around your inability to execute any number of obvious counters to a build?

I'm not playing chrono ? You care too much defending that build, is that what you play?:DDDDDDDDDIf we speak about p/p DE you wont go away that easy because stun trait.Thats next level thieves that have 1 or few brain cells.Why you keep insisting that I cant ? I havent seen p/p thieves at all ,except few french hackers.At start i just pointed out if people running meta builds ,they lack said projectile hate . Why so much hate xD

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@Legatus.3608 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Legatus.3608 said:Oh look everyone, it's our daily qq thread about how thief is broken because "3 spam is op" even though the build is bad and easily defeated by pressing any reflect .

So you either reflect or get 100 -0 in a second? Is this what it comes down to? This is the problem with the gw2 community, that you have people who defend this type of game play. I don't care what class it is, you should not be able to 100 - 0 a player within in a second, let alone just pressing ONE button. Its not just a "thief" thing. Damage across the board needs to be toned down significantly and firebrand needs to NOT be a healer.

Implying that reflect is the only way to defeat the build now? We listed the number of ways to defeat the build, THEY ARE QUITE NUMEROUS, and the build itself is trash tier. I'm getting really kitten tired of people whining because they failed to press one of the 16+ buttons on their skill bar to prevent death. THE ONLY reason I even brought up reflect is because reflect outright DEFEATS the build by using a defensive ability.

Name one other build in gw2 that LITERALLY dies instantly from full hp because it attacked into a defensive ability?

I'm sorry but this isn't a case of defending a build like chronomancer which is obviously op and has no real counter, this is a build with A kitten MULTITUDE of EASILY EXECUTED COUNTERS, and your failure to use any of them is on you, not on the opponent, not on thief mains, and certainly not on anet's balance team for making a build that is easily countered but people are not smart enough to do it.

Why should the game be balanced around your inability to activate a counter to a build? "BUT AH DON'T WHANT TAH PRESS MAH COUNTA PISTAHLS BUTTON" is not an excuse to nerf a build.

You totally miss the point.

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@Aza.2105 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Legatus.3608 said:Oh look everyone, it's our daily qq thread about how thief is broken because "3 spam is op" even though the build is bad and easily defeated by pressing any reflect .

So you either reflect or get 100 -0 in a second? Is this what it comes down to? This is the problem with the gw2 community, that you have people who defend this type of game play. I don't care what class it is, you should not be able to 100 - 0 a player within in a second, let alone just pressing ONE button. Its not just a "thief" thing. Damage across the board needs to be toned down significantly and firebrand needs to NOT be a healer.

Implying that reflect is the only way to defeat the build now? We listed the number of ways to defeat the build, THEY ARE QUITE NUMEROUS, and the build itself is trash tier. I'm getting really kitten tired of people whining because they failed to press one of the 16+ buttons on their skill bar to prevent death. THE ONLY reason I even brought up reflect is because reflect outright DEFEATS the build by using a defensive ability.

Name one other build in gw2 that LITERALLY dies instantly from full hp because it attacked into a defensive ability?

I'm sorry but this isn't a case of defending a build like chronomancer which is obviously op and has no real counter, this is a build with A kitten MULTITUDE of EASILY EXECUTED COUNTERS, and your failure to use any of them is on you, not on the opponent, not on thief mains, and certainly not on anet's balance team for making a build that is easily countered but people are not smart enough to do it.

Why should the game be balanced around your inability to activate a counter to a build? "BUT AH DON'T WHANT TAH PRESS MAH COUNTA PISTAHLS BUTTON" is not an excuse to nerf a build.

You totally miss the point.

I'm missing the point? People are calling for nerfs to a build that is actually trash, what is the point if that isn't it?

And Odik I am sorry but your english isn't good enough for me to understand you. I cannot understand your last 2 posts.

What I do understand is that OP builds force the meta. During scourge+mesmer condi meta for example, EVERY BUILD needed to have condi cleanse. Here we are in a meta where none of the meta builds are running projectile reflect and everyone is whining about p/p thief. Justified? The meta says no.

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@Legatus.3608 said:I'm missing the point? People are calling for nerfs to a build that is actually trash, what is the point if that isn't it?

Yes, you take it as a personal attack on the thief class. So I will make it very clear and simple:

Nothing should exist in a competitive gaming environment that can 100 - 0 in around a second. This can apply to ANY class. I do not want to hear about reflect, that is irrelevant. Because I will still tell you that skills, builds that can kill a player in a second SHOULD NOT exist. Period.

Do you understand why health exists and why each player doesn't have 1 health? Health represents the amount of chances you have to win. Design wise, higher health and natural sturdiness illustrates that this class/build has many chances to win at the cost of something else. However, when you have a skill or build that can kill anything in a second, regardless of the amount of health or toughness this this negates the whole point of having health bar. Since it doesn't matter if you have 100 health or 20,000 health. The result is the same. That is my point.

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@Aza.2105 said:

@Legatus.3608 said:I'm missing the point? People are calling for nerfs to a build that is actually trash, what is the point if that isn't it?

Yes, you take it as a personal attack on the thief class. So I will make it very clear and simple:

Nothing should exist in a competitive gaming environment that can 100 - 0 in around a second. This can apply to ANY class. I do not want to hear about reflect, that is irrelevant. Because I will still tell you that skills, builds that can kill a player in a second SHOULD NOT exist. Period.

Do you understand why health exists and why each player doesn't have 1 health? Health represents the amount of chances you have to win. Design wise, higher health and natural sturdiness illustrates that this class/build has many chances to win at the cost of something else. However, when you have a skill or build that can kill anything in a second, regardless of the amount of health or toughness this this negates the whole point of having health bar. Since it doesn't matter if you have 100 health or 20,000 health. The result is the same. That is my point.

Well by your logic pretty much every build in the game should be nerfed then. I don't think there are any damage-oriented builds in gw2 that cannot do 20k or more damage within a second if the other player is just standing there afk. Why should pistols thief get nerfed when all these other builds can do it as well?

You did not come here to complain about the time to kill of gw2, you came here to complain about pistols thief. And you have no justification to that end so far in this thread.

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