P/P is too powerful

[Anthony.7630]

@"Aza.2105" said:

Its simple to get almost 4000 power with p/p. 75% crit rate and nearly 240% crit dmg increase. This isn't taking into consideration the damage modifiers from various traits.

4000 power is a lot. The base power is around 2200ish with a zerk amulet. So p/p thief can get close to double. That is insane. Thanks anet, wonderful balance team you got here lol.

yea but if the thief is focusing on you - your ally can instant down the thief. Also 1 good reflect will instant down the thief. Or a timed dodge can avoid 75% of the thief's damage.

Remember spvp can be a team game or a 1v1 game. Just depends on each fight case by case.

[Anthony.7630]

Obviously people in higher rankings don't seem to have a problem with p / p thief. Maybe it's not popular in the competitive area, but in unranked or custom rooms it can be seen as a little OP the first time you come across it.

Once you know how the thief is fighting, boom, he is easy. Usually your first death will be surprising and then you check logs and watch the thief. After that you win.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Aza.2105 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

Its simple to get almost 4000 power with p/p. 75% crit rate and nearly 240% crit dmg increase. This isn't taking into consideration the damage modifiers from various traits.

4000 power is a lot. The base power is around 2200ish with a zerk amulet. So p/p thief can get close to double. That is insane. Thanks anet, wonderful balance team you got here lol.

And 11k health

Also show all the boons and trait lines and utilities

The picture combined with what you say is rather misleading

11k hp isnt the problem is that they spamming continously for 15k+ with practicslly 1 action pressing 3 as fast as possible while other classes like ele or gaurd or war or any other class has to do it in 3-6 buttons and a weapon swap as well.

What defense other than dodge? Can they shoot while dodging? They are not Mesmer

They dont do it at point blank its a 900 ranged skill

Easier to LoS and dodge than. The skill is not hit scan. If can’t LoS and caught alone as a non 1 v 1 class, probably gonna eat the bone

Haven't I seen you in mesmer nerf threads talking about how overpowered they are?

I main thief, my sig says it. The current Mesmer could use some toning down.

I asked you to show the traits and utilities and buffs. It’s proper to show all relevant data, not just the parts that boost your argument

They could take pp out of the game for all I care.

You don’t have to aim is the best argument I have seen.

Make unload cost 8 initiative problem solved.

But those traits for rogue type thieves such as how I like to play are high risk high reward

[Aza.2105]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

Its simple to get almost 4000 power with p/p. 75% crit rate and nearly 240% crit dmg increase. This isn't taking into consideration the damage modifiers from various traits.

4000 power is a lot. The base power is around 2200ish with a zerk amulet. So p/p thief can get close to double. That is insane. Thanks anet, wonderful balance team you got here lol.

And 11k health

Also show all the boons and trait lines and utilities

The picture combined with what you say is rather misleading

11k hp isnt the problem is that they spamming continously for 15k+ with practicslly 1 action pressing 3 as fast as possible while other classes like ele or gaurd or war or any other class has to do it in 3-6 buttons and a weapon swap as well.

What defense other than dodge? Can they shoot while dodging? They are not Mesmer

They dont do it at point blank its a 900 ranged skill

Easier to LoS and dodge than. The skill is not hit scan. If can’t LoS and caught alone as a non 1 v 1 class, probably gonna eat the bone

Haven't I seen you in mesmer nerf threads talking about how overpowered they are?

I main thief, my sig says it. The current Mesmer could use some toning down.

I asked you to show the traits and utilities and buffs. It’s proper to show all relevant data, not just the parts that boost your argument

They could take pp out of the game for all I care.

You don’t have to aim is the best argument I have seen.

Make unload cost 8 initiative problem solved.

But those traits for rogue type thieves such as how I like to play are high risk high reward

I disagree Mr. Crab. Increasing the cost of unload is a unnecessary nerf. The cost is not the problem. The problems are:

• Ease of might stack
• Assassin Signet's active giving 500+ Power
• Be quick or be killed trait giving 200 Power
• Revealed Training Trait giving 200 Power.

Nearly 1000 power is coming from traits. This isn't taking into consideration various damage modifiers from traits like ankle shots (10%), Ferocious strikes (10%), Exposed weakness (10%), Executioner (20%). That is a 50% damage modifier that comes from traits alone.

I'm not saying all of them need to go. But the way they interact need to be changed or modified in some way. Other wise, then there is no need to change mesmer since they represent the other end of the spectrum aka super defensive.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Aza.2105 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

Its simple to get almost 4000 power with p/p. 75% crit rate and nearly 240% crit dmg increase. This isn't taking into consideration the damage modifiers from various traits.

4000 power is a lot. The base power is around 2200ish with a zerk amulet. So p/p thief can get close to double. That is insane. Thanks anet, wonderful balance team you got here lol.

And 11k health

Also show all the boons and trait lines and utilities

The picture combined with what you say is rather misleading

11k hp isnt the problem is that they spamming continously for 15k+ with practicslly 1 action pressing 3 as fast as possible while other classes like ele or gaurd or war or any other class has to do it in 3-6 buttons and a weapon swap as well.

What defense other than dodge? Can they shoot while dodging? They are not Mesmer

They dont do it at point blank its a 900 ranged skill

Easier to LoS and dodge than. The skill is not hit scan. If can’t LoS and caught alone as a non 1 v 1 class, probably gonna eat the bone

Haven't I seen you in mesmer nerf threads talking about how overpowered they are?

I main thief, my sig says it. The current Mesmer could use some toning down.

I asked you to show the traits and utilities and buffs. It’s proper to show all relevant data, not just the parts that boost your argument

They could take pp out of the game for all I care.

You don’t have to aim is the best argument I have seen.

Make unload cost 8 initiative problem solved.

But those traits for rogue type thieves such as how I like to play are high risk high reward

I disagree Mr. Crab. Increasing the cost of unload is a unnecessary nerf. The cost is not the problem. The problems are:

• Ease of might stack
• Assassin Signet's active giving 500+ Power
• Be quick or be killed trait giving 200 Power
• Revealed Training Trait giving 200 Power.

Nearly 1000 power is coming from traits. This isn't taking into consideration various damage modifiers from traits like ankle shots (10%), Ferocious strikes (10%), Exposed weakness (10%), Executioner (20%). That is a 50% damage modifier that comes from traits alone.

I'm not saying all of them need to go. But the way they interact need to be changed or modified in some way. Other wise, then there is no need to change mesmer since they represent the other end of the spectrum aka super defensive.

So what happens to a melee thief that relies on such traits? Auto attack on dags is a wet noodle otherwise

Take away the might gain from pp 3. But also do the same for other classes with a similar might gain. Remove sigil of courage from the game. Remove tune of strength

Should any other class be able to stack 25 might? Even 10 might perms is pushing it

[Aza.2105]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

Its simple to get almost 4000 power with p/p. 75% crit rate and nearly 240% crit dmg increase. This isn't taking into consideration the damage modifiers from various traits.

4000 power is a lot. The base power is around 2200ish with a zerk amulet. So p/p thief can get close to double. That is insane. Thanks anet, wonderful balance team you got here lol.

And 11k health

Also show all the boons and trait lines and utilities

The picture combined with what you say is rather misleading

11k hp isnt the problem is that they spamming continously for 15k+ with practicslly 1 action pressing 3 as fast as possible while other classes like ele or gaurd or war or any other class has to do it in 3-6 buttons and a weapon swap as well.

What defense other than dodge? Can they shoot while dodging? They are not Mesmer

They dont do it at point blank its a 900 ranged skill

Easier to LoS and dodge than. The skill is not hit scan. If can’t LoS and caught alone as a non 1 v 1 class, probably gonna eat the bone

Haven't I seen you in mesmer nerf threads talking about how overpowered they are?

I main thief, my sig says it. The current Mesmer could use some toning down.

I asked you to show the traits and utilities and buffs. It’s proper to show all relevant data, not just the parts that boost your argument

They could take pp out of the game for all I care.

You don’t have to aim is the best argument I have seen.

Make unload cost 8 initiative problem solved.

But those traits for rogue type thieves such as how I like to play are high risk high reward

I disagree Mr. Crab. Increasing the cost of unload is a unnecessary nerf. The cost is not the problem. The problems are:

• Ease of might stack
• Assassin Signet's active giving 500+ Power
• Be quick or be killed trait giving 200 Power
• Revealed Training Trait giving 200 Power.

Nearly 1000 power is coming from traits. This isn't taking into consideration various damage modifiers from traits like ankle shots (10%), Ferocious strikes (10%), Exposed weakness (10%), Executioner (20%). That is a 50% damage modifier that comes from traits alone.

I'm not saying all of them need to go. But the way they interact need to be changed or modified in some way. Other wise, then there is no need to change mesmer since they represent the other end of the spectrum aka super defensive.

So what happens to a melee thief that relies on such traits? Auto attack on dags is a wet noodle otherwise

Take away the might gain from pp 3. But also do the same for other classes with a similar might gain. Remove sigil of courage from the game. Remove tune of strength

Should any other class be able to stack 25 might? Even 10 might perms is pushing it

There would be a variety of ways they could change it. Ranging from making those skills I named affected certain weapon sets differently, to flat out nerfing those skills and buffing something like the dagger toolset to compensate.

Yes man, might stacking has got to go. That is a universal problem, in fact the entire boon system is a problem in spvp. Its much too strong. Either access to them needs to be significantly lowered as well as their durations. There should be no way to extend their duration in pvp. Boons are suppose to be enhancements. But if you look at what happened to the game, characters are now completely dependent upon them.

[Felipe.1807]

I feel like 100% of complaints against thieves exist only because of this iniciative thing that Anet made...just remove it and give Thief cooldowns like everyone else, is obvious that the ability to spam the same skill more then once is OP.

[Majirah.5089]

@Aza.2105 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@"babazhook.6805" said:

Oh come on enough of the hyperbole. A millisecond? Are you kidding me? The channel of the Unload is 1.5 seconds.Light armor targets die in maybe half the channel time. Heavy armor targets need a full unload 1/2. Medium armor targets die with a full unload, or 1.5secs.

This is hyperbole. I haven’t died to a single unload, or even 2 unloads, on any armor rating. Mainly because I’m not afk. It’s quite easy to not eat a full unload. Dodge, block, use a skill with evade, interrupt, reflect...the list goes on. Then they also don’t get the initiative refund. Without the refund the skill is expensive.

Also for this to even be possible when the thief is targeting an afk player the thief has to be full glass in zerker. Zerker thieves die very fast. I’m never worried about going up against a team with a pp thief. They are usually just a liability. Only thing they are good against is scourges. Even then a proper thief will do just fine.

So your argument is that you dodged or blocked. Ok. But what does this have to do with a build that has 4k power, 75% crit rate and 240% crit damage chewing through armor? I'm not even sure why you mentioned armor rating, like you are magically exempt from it. You aren't, you just "avoided" a one second death. That isn't a very good argument you know. Since its a 5v5 game what does this mean? Its not a 1v1 game. Which means you aren't going to save your cooldowns, dodges etc for that one encounter with thief. Its not a realistic scenario and you should know this.

I mentioned armor ratings because the post I quoted was talking about them. And yes my argument is that pp is easily countered. If you are just standing their eating the damage you deserve to die.

I’ve killed people in seconds on a glass ranger, glass warrior, glass guardian, glass ele, glass holo, etc. most of the time it’s because the opponent just stood there and ate the whole thing without doing anything.

The thief gives up pretty much all sustain and team contribution for the chance to gank people who aren’t paying attention. It does high damage yes, but the damage is easily countered in most cases. If the opponent can’t react in the duration of a single channel that is on them.

There is a reason pp isn’t the go to build if you actually want to contribute the most to your team in a match. It does well against people who aren’t paying attention. If you aren’t fighting an afk team a dp daredevil or core sword dagger (even with the nerfs) is still a better choice to have on the team. Honestly a glass holo or soulbeast is better to have on the team too. Pp is a waste of a team mate.

[Majirah.5089]

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:

@"Yannir.4132" said:What ever happened to "projectile hate" in this game?

Theres nothing wrong with projectile hate, like i said it is a great finisher or startedter to a combo. But doing nothing buut 3 and doing 15k+ while it takes every other class multipullskills to do is not fair. Even ranger 2 only does 6-9k at most iv seen and that the next biggest projectile hate i can think of atm.

I’ve hit for 26k with rapid fire on glass soulbeast using sic’em. I’ve hit for 20k+ multiple times using mail before hand. Just 2 skills. It almost always hits for at least 12k even without using maul beforehand or sic’em. Rarely have I had it hit for less than 10k. I had one match where I hit the same scourge for over 20k with rapid fire 5 times through the match. To get this damage I had to go full glass and run a less than optimal build.

Does this mean that glass soulbeast is the best ranger build? No, it just means it does high damage against opponents that aren’t paying attention. The scourge could have at least dodged to avoid some of the damage. Probably would have still died because range is a decent counter to scourge, but it did nothing.

[Legatus.3608]

@Aza.2105 said:

@Legatus.3608 said:

Well by your logic pretty much every build in the game should be nerfed then. I don't think there are any damage-oriented builds in gw2 that cannot do 20k or more damage within a second if the other player is just standing there afk. Why should pistols thief get nerfed when all these other builds can do it as well?

Correct, thats why I told you do not look at it as a direct attack on the thief profession. Because its not. Ultimately the only thing this type of damage does is push the game into a direction were only long durations of block, evade and invul are the only things that keep you from dying. This is wrong, it creates a highly polarized game play where skill is absent.

Health needs to matter, natural defense needs to matter.

I would agree with you in that regard. But that isn't what we have, and asking for a nerf to P/P deadeye which is a fairly shitty build really doesn't really stand up to scrutiny when all those other builds doing more damage than thief THAT ARE ACTUALLY GOOD BTW are out there.

@Aza.2105 said:

@Majirah.5089 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@"babazhook.6805" said:

Oh come on enough of the hyperbole. A millisecond? Are you kidding me? The channel of the Unload is 1.5 seconds.Light armor targets die in maybe half the channel time. Heavy armor targets need a full unload 1/2. Medium armor targets die with a full unload, or 1.5secs.

This is hyperbole. I haven’t died to a single unload, or even 2 unloads, on any armor rating. Mainly because I’m not afk. It’s quite easy to not eat a full unload. Dodge, block, use a skill with evade, interrupt, reflect...the list goes on. Then they also don’t get the initiative refund. Without the refund the skill is expensive.

Also for this to even be possible when the thief is targeting an afk player the thief has to be full glass in zerker. Zerker thieves die very fast. I’m never worried about going up against a team with a pp thief. They are usually just a liability. Only thing they are good against is scourges. Even then a proper thief will do just fine.

So your argument is that you dodged or blocked. Ok. But what does this have to do with a build that has 4k power, 75% crit rate and 240% crit damage chewing through armor? I'm not even sure why you mentioned armor rating, like you are magically exempt from it. You aren't, you just "avoided" a one second death. That isn't a very good argument you know. Since its a 5v5 game what does this mean? Its not a 1v1 game. Which means you aren't going to save your cooldowns, dodges etc for that one encounter with thief. Its not a realistic scenario and you should know this.

Well since you are 5v4 until the thief attacks you I'd say saving your cooldown for the thief is ACTUALLY pretty realistic. IDK why you're acting like otherwise, you can't spend an entire game +1 against the enemies, if you're +1 on one side of the map your team is -1 on the other side.

And yeah, that 4k power thief picture up there is only possible with assassins signet and a bunch of revealed traits, on a build that lacks commonly accessible stealth, and only offensive traits on an 11k hp build. Most likely with full might stacks as well as some other buffs that thief can't actually self-produce. I find it particularly interesting that you spent extra effort cropping out the rest of your screen instead of just screenshotting and posting. Someone is being a little dishonest.

[Kageseigi.2150]

From what I can tell, these stats are from the following (based on Core Thief, though may be using an Elite)...

Power:1000 - Base1200 - Berserker Amulet750 - 25 stacks of Might540 - Activated Assassin's Signet (lasts for 5 seconds, then loses 720 for 15 seconds)200 - Revealed Training (requires Stealth)175 - Rune of Strength

Precision:1000 / 4% - Base900 / 42.85% - Berserker Amulet180 / 8.57% - Signet of Agility20% - Fury

Ferocity:150% - Base900 / 59.9% - Berserker Amulet250 / 16.7% - No Quarter190 / 12.7% - Practiced Tolerance

Condition Damage:750 - 25 stacks of Might

---

As for the Power level, a lot of that is not sustainable...

3865 can last 4 seconds at a time (requires a Stealth attack and signet activation)3665 can last 5 seconds at a time (requires signet activation)3305 can be sustained with 25 stacks of Might and passive signet3125 can be sustained with 25 stacks of Might while signet is on cooldown2555 is baseline without Might and with passive signet

This is a Glass Cannon that requires the Critical Strikes traitline, two signets, and no added vitality.My only issue with this is that this capability is for P/P instead of for a Dagger or Sword.Might stacking is much more fair on a melee weapon than a ranged weapon, but that's how Anet has set it up, unfortunately.The Thief needs high damage output to be competitive in combat, which it lacks outside of P/P (on Core Thief).The only thing P/P has is Unload, sadly.

[babazhook.6805]

@"Kageseigi.2150" said:

From what I can tell, these stats are from the following (based on Core Thief, though may be using an Elite)...

Power:

1000 - Base1200 - Berserker Amulet750 - 25 stacks of Might540 - Activated Assassin's Signet (lasts for 5 seconds, then loses 720 for 15 seconds)200 - Revealed Training (requires Stealth)175 - Rune of Strength

Precision:

1000 / 4% - Base900 / 42.85% - Berserker Amulet180 / 8.57% - Signet of Agility20% - Fury

Ferocity:

150% - Base900 / 59.9% - Berserker Amulet250 / 16.7% - No Quarter190 / 12.7% - Practiced Tolerance

Condition Damage:

750 - 25 stacks of Might

---

As for the Power level, a lot of that is not sustainable...

3865 can last 4 seconds at a time (requires a Stealth attack and signet activation)3665 can last 5 seconds at a time (requires signet activation)3305 can be sustained with 25 stacks of Might and passive signet3125 can be sustained with 25 stacks of Might while signet is on cooldown2555 is baseline without Might and with passive signet

This is a Glass Cannon that requires the Critical Strikes traitline, two signets, and no added vitality.My only issue with this is that this capability is for P/P instead of for a Dagger or Sword.Might stacking is much more fair on a melee weapon than a ranged weapon, but that's how Anet has set it up, unfortunately.The Thief needs high damage output to be competitive in combat, which it lacks outside of P/P (on Core Thief).The only thing P/P has is Unload, sadly.

Yes , and the thief that uses said build has put EVERYTHING into his unload. Once that blocked/dodged reflected evaded , thief is dead. He will die to one attack. What I find odd is people complain about a thief being able to down someone quickly while the thief they present as the model for the same can be downed just as quickly and to down that thief does not require giving up everything for offense.

You can design up an all or nothing warrior as well and get numbers near the same and start with 8000 more health.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Odik.4587 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@"Yannir.4132" said:What ever happened to "projectile hate" in this game?

Who have projectile hate rn

? Shortly ... firebrand f3 bubble(outside is shield5),druid staff 5.Thats all i could find from

'metabattle meta builds'

. If you ever see scraper he have personal dome . Not that many or I forgot something ?

This is a link to all the skills just having REFLECT and it fare more then just Firebrand. There at least 25 skills/traits here

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reflect

There also a multitude of skills that block projectiles with a multitude restricted to projectiles. While there no skills traits that block only Phyisical attacks while letting projectiles hit, there a number that block only projectiles. (ie winds of disenchantment)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

You are blind my friend ? Mentioned only stuff that included in metabattle builds (assuming people playing them,instead of less effective builds)Not counting any block because its not projectile hate but blocking all hits thats are not unblockable.Why I did that... ? To point that not everyone have them on demand

I must be blind. I didn't find p/p in the meta for thief. So, help me to understand. If a thief can take non-meta p/p and be "overpowered", what's stopping say meta power mirage from switching one trait in the dueling line to 2s reflect on evade and simply ignoring the pistol thief while he either kills himself on your reflect or finds something else to do with his time?

[Kasdwer.3721]

@Aza.2105 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

Its simple to get almost 4000 power with p/p. 75% crit rate and nearly 240% crit dmg increase. This isn't taking into consideration the damage modifiers from various traits.

4000 power is a lot. The base power is around 2200ish with a zerk amulet. So p/p thief can get close to double. That is insane. Thanks anet, wonderful balance team you got here lol.

And 11k health

Also show all the boons and trait lines and utilities

The picture combined with what you say is rather misleading

Yes its a conspiracy theory to get thief nerfed.

I know you play and enjoy the class, but gez man. You are doing the samething players who are emotionally tied to mesmer do. Aka what ever criticism about the class is a exaggeration and misleading.

Lol I don’t play p/p thiefI could take the same photo with daggers instead of pistols and have the same numbers

Show the traits, buffs, and utilities

everyone can have nearly 3,-3,5k power with 25 might stacksthe difference is that to reach 25 you need to hit like 2 or 3 full unloads, in that time good player already jumped on you, and you either need to retreat instantly or be deathits impossible to reach 25 might stacks as pp thief alone in a fightwhy dont you whine about other classes who can easily hit 25 might stacks like druid/holo/mesmer? and these classes dont need to hit 2-3 unloads in a row to get itbest counter to pp thief is dp thief, projectile hate and classes who with high mobility, if you play anything else beside necro and die to pp thief, its your own faulttheres a reason why pp thief isnt viable

[rng.1024]

Why is this even still a thing? There are so many counters to unload, I don't even know where to begin. Remember it's a skill with many hits with low powerscaling, this means a few things:

1. Toughness is extremely effective her, run demolisher amulet to see the difference
2. Retaliation will seriously hurt the thief
3. He only has basi venom to make the first hit unblockable, else use your evades/blocks/LoS/range cap
4. As mentioned, reflects will outright down them, from runes or otherwise
5. Pets, turrets, summons, and so forth can all bodyblock some of the burst for you
6. Use Protection
7. Use your leaps, teleports and movementspeed buffs to get close and deal damage
8. CC the guy to make his damage 0
9. Know that every PP thief uses Roll For Initiative and Shadowstep so plan accordingly
10. Remember he has limited initiative - this means there will be breathing spaces for you to reposition if you survive his opener

And most important of all: Don't be a meta-slave. Why do you think this build is still viable? Because the meta doesn't take it into consideration. Change up a utility skill, pick a defensive trait if you see a deadeye on the other team so you can deal with them better. Don't worry, no one will call the meta police on you for doing so :) Meta builds are made for winning matches, the people making these have decided the counters to certain builds aren't needed because they know how to properly deal with them - so if you don't, then you will lose the match even if you play their builds to the letter. Be nice to your teammates. Be smart. Counter your enemy. Don't let pride hinder you. Learn from everyone. Win because that is why you are all there :)

[Aza.2105]

@Legatus.3608 said:Someone is being a little dishonest.

To be dishonest would suggest that I have a ulterior motive. For what? I ask again for what? I cropped the screenshot initially to simply focused on the stats, when Mr. Crab repeatedly asked for a screenshot of the build and buffs I did. Even though ultimately it does NOT matter.

[Aza.2105]

@"Kasdwer.3721" said:everyone can have nearly 3,-3,5k power with 25 might stacks

Around 3.1kish. Thief gets 900 + Power more due to other traits.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/36411/25-stacks-of-might-every-where#latest

[Arioch.4810]

I read all of this, there is a lot of useful information, AND civil discussion, here's my take:Having played a lot of matches with thief in PvP/WvW i had my fair share of experiments with P/P, i consider that to be tier 3/4 build for thief in vacuum - forces you into "one trick pony" build to be effective, and there is too many counters available.But, a lot of those counters have fallen out of the meta thanks to prevalence of AoE/condition builds and corruption/boon strip that has become the norm. If you put mesmer aside, a lot of top meta picks atm are susceptible to "yolo pistol 3" thief build in hands of somewhat competent player.
If this creates a shift in the meta - well, i guess that would be a good thing, but i think it will not last.

I am also in the majority of players that would like to see prolonged combat in game, IE reducement in alpha strike damage across all classes, but that is something you must not tinker with in vacuum - you have to take into consideration sustain/damage mitigation available in game, to strike some form of balance, othervise the PvP will shift once again to immortal bunkers meta. Also, i can't help but notice that dodge as a main damage mitigation in game has lost a lot of it's mojo , and would love to see that adressed in future.

makedodgegreatagain, then pistols 3 will not be an issue :)

[Mutaatti.2789]

Not this kitten again. xD l2p nub git gud etc. Move on! Have died to a p/p thieves couple times, have killed them 10x more.

They win Ranked matches only because enemy team is too rookie to understand to target it and insta burst it down in 1 sec. Then move to next target fast. Downed thief aint doing dmg.

[Legatus.3608]

@Aza.2105 said:

@Legatus.3608 said:Someone is being a little dishonest.

To be dishonest would suggest that I have a ulterior motive. For what? I ask again for what? I cropped the screenshot initially to simply focused on the stats, when Mr. Crab repeatedly asked for a screenshot of the build and buffs I did. Even though ultimately it does NOT matter.

I don't need to see a motive to see what looks like dishonesty. Do another one without the picture cropped and we can talk.

[Aza.2105]

@Legatus.3608 said:

@Aza.2105 said:

@Legatus.3608 said:Someone is being a little dishonest.

To be dishonest would suggest that I have a ulterior motive. For what? I ask again for what? I cropped the screenshot initially to simply focused on the stats, when Mr. Crab repeatedly asked for a screenshot of the build and buffs I did. Even though ultimately it does NOT matter.

I don't need to see a motive to see what looks like dishonesty. Do another one without the picture cropped and we can talk.

WOW!

[Mr Godlike.6098]

@"Yannir.4132" said:What ever happened to "projectile hate" in this game?

Tempesthealbot extincted.

[Faux Play.6104]

Use retaliation. Then we can have threads about how op that boon is. #bronzelife is hard

[EnderzShadow.2506]

Ridiculous Risk High rewardTissue paper with a machine gun.

Go play a PP thief in 10 ranked games and come back and tell us how well you've done.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

@Aza.2105Nothing should exist in a competitive gaming environment that can 100 - 0 in around a second.

Nothing does exist in the competitive aspects of this game that can 100-0 in a second.To suggest otherwise is more than exaggeration, it's a lie.

You think @Crabfear.1624 is blinded...while you're running for the nerf thief Campaign?

For the record, I don't play thief.I hate having a pp thief on my team and I hate fighting them.