Signet of Vampirism...WHY!?

Not only does the 1second ICD make it near useless (being generous) but what i just dont understand its a signet about leaching life, yet the passive is when YOU get hit!? Why!? This could have been such a a good option, if they made a few simple, easy changes. Remove the 1second cool down (minimum....) and maybe (not required, would be nice) make it that you get the passive heal when YOU attack.

Combined with the trait which more than DOUBLES the healing you get from the passive, if it wasnt for the damn ICD it would be such a good option, yet the ICD makes it useless. So many options, yet its left to be useless :(

Only Warriors and ele allowed to have good HS

@"DragonFury.6243" said:Only Warriors and ele allowed to have good HS

Yeah it seems like it. If they just removed the ICD then i think it could become really strong, playing around with a Reaper build that comes with Blighter's Boon Lesser Signer of Vampirism, Vampiric, Vampiric Presence, Signets of suffering and Signet of Vampirism. At the moment trying to find the best way to get stacks and stacks of bleeding on someone without using Scepter. Kinda looking at Sigil of Earth on a Dagger as Signets of Suffering counts for Lesser signet of Vampirism which is 20second cool down and procs after applying 4 bleeds,the trait effect also affects this, so like every like 5seconds in Shroud brings the cool down nearly back off

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBLRhG2JNiQ1mY5Ng7mA9mYpXwmyaDh5F0YqAEAifiTxrIA-jFBEwAFOCA23fAwDAIxJBQUAbF-w

This is what i have at the moment, gear wise its currently a mix of Condi (needs replacing) and Cele

Passive is good if you are being pegged from ranged attacks. Didn't we just have a thread on this? Probably still on the first page.

@Obtena.7952 said:Passive is good if you are being pegged from ranged attacks. Didn't we just have a thread on this? Probably still on the first page.

Ah so there is, 3rd from bottom. Didnt see it.

Still sux. Even against ranged. Cause ranged is most likely pewpew ranger.To be precise. It just sux against any power build. Cause they will try to burst you. And you get only a very small amount of healing out of it.It's better against slow attacking classes. Oh wait, there is no such a class other than necro.

If I recall correctly, anet's position on long lasting effects that punish the attacker when it hit it's target is unfun to play against and unfun to use. That's why there is no damage attached to the passive siphon. As for why there is an ICD on the passive healing part, it's because it would be op otherwise.

@Dadnir.5038 said:If I recall correctly, anet's position on long lasting effects that punish the attacker when it hit it's target is unfun to play against and unfun to use. That's why there is no damage attached to the passive siphon. As for why there is an ICD on the passive healing part, it's because it would be op otherwise.

I think the internal cooldown is also from the age of Anet, when they didn't realise they could use anything less than a second.

@Dadnir.5038 said:If I recall correctly, anet's position on long lasting effects that punish the attacker when it hit it's target is unfun to play against and unfun to use. That's why there is no damage attached to the passive siphon. As for why there is an ICD on the passive healing part, it's because it would be op otherwise.

Would it be that OP? Look at the healing that you can get from Healing Signet or Signet of Restoration. They can both do rather good healing. Even with no healing power, Signet of Restoration can be like 900-1000 healing per a second, especially with the use of Dagger Air auto attack AND if it hasnt been fixed, you get the healing when attacking air as well.

Untraited, even if they removed the ICD it would still be weaker than BOTH Healing Signet and Signet of Restoration. Healing Signet is equip and forget no requirements for the healing. Signet of Restoration gets healing based on how much you press the button, not if you hit anyone or anything. Even traited, i am not sure if it would be that game breaking.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:If I recall correctly, anet's position on long lasting effects that punish the attacker when it hit it's target is unfun to play against and unfun to use. That's why there is no damage attached to the passive siphon. As for why there is an ICD on the passive healing part, it's because it would be op otherwise.

SoR heals for 200 per attack. The only time where it would heal 1000 is on scepter burst which happens in 1-2 seconds. So it's not 1000 heal per second, it's 1000 heal for one second. You heal for 1k per second only with 500+ healing power when you manage to cast 3 skills every second, which is again, not easy to manage constantly due to cast times on most of ele skills.

Since we're already talking about ele's signet. Active heal is 3300 compared to 5000 on necro, it doesnt do damage and it doesnt heal you when you use it (unlike siphon part on necro which heals for additional 500 per second). Yes passive part sucks, but it's not even comparable to ele because they work completely different, opposite even.

And you cant just remove ICD on either active or passive part because it would be broken in any smaller fights due to nearly instant burst/heal (active) or basically unkillable in 1vx (passive).

For some data....

In an OW fight w/3 mobs just now I was passive healed 22 times in a minute by Signet of Vampirism for 555-584 per occurrence. 555 * 22 = 12,210 hp/min.

By contrast, Consume Conditions is 5,674 (+ 767 per condi) with a 30s CD. In this case, SoV is equal or superior to CC. Upside was that this was entirely passive, and I didn't even touch the ~5K active initial heal; downside is it doesn't help with condition removal.

In total, for one minute:

• Signet of Vampirism 555-584 per occurrence. 555 * 22 = 12,210
• Vampiric Strikes healed 95 times for 41, so 95 8 41 = 3,895
• Vampiric Rituals w/Well of Suffering added 20 * 225 = 4,500
• Life Siphon (Dagger2) 8 * 494 = 3,952
• Total passive healing for 1 minute: 24,557

This is with HP of 325/445 (due to weapons difference - most of fight was at 325).Build:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRQQRAnY4Yn0ICN2gl2Au0A0uhjchaOEj9UQLj1oZhBQDkAA-jRiEwACViFw0XOlHk0IwS9nCKBBYGYj+gT7PQKg8UGB-e

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:If I recall correctly, anet's position on long lasting effects that punish the attacker when it hit it's target is unfun to play against and unfun to use. That's why there is no damage attached to the passive siphon. As for why there is an ICD on the passive healing part, it's because it would be op otherwise.

imagine a newby mesmer with a gs and healing gear because he fear for it's survivability facing a standing still almost naked necromancer with a vampiric signet.The mesmer produce 3 clones that relently hit the necromancer 3 time each per second dealing cumulatively at best 30 point of damage to the poor necromancer and healing him for (3x3) x [base passive heal of the signet] per hit, which globally mean 9x325=2925 health per second. Which doesn't count the low damage of the mesmer itself. In the end all the mesmer would do would be to heal it's foe. This is why I said it's op. Because players don't always deal high damages however, the signet would faithfully grant the same amount of health per hit taken.

@"steki.1478" said:SoR heals for 200 per attack. The only time where it would heal 1000 is on scepter burst which happens in 1-2 seconds. So it's not 1000 heal per second, it's 1000 heal for one second. You heal for 1k per second only with 500+ healing power when you manage to cast 3 skills every second, which is again, not easy to manage constantly due to cast times on most of ele skills.

Since we're already talking about ele's signet. Active heal is 3300 compared to 5000 on necro, it doesnt do damage and it doesnt heal you when you use it (unlike siphon part on necro which heals for additional 500 per second). Yes passive part sucks, but it's not even comparable to ele because they work completely different, opposite even.

And you cant just remove ICD on either active or passive part because it would be broken in any smaller fights due to nearly instant burst/heal (active) or basically unkillable in 1vx (passive).

It heals for 200 per an attack, doesnt matter if you land it or anything. Combine that with the lots and lots of fast hitting abilities that Ele come with. I said it CAN be, with the right build you can easily reach 1k+ healing from the various passive abilities and skill use. The only ele that doesnt have that much healing power would be staff zerg eles, everyone else runs mixes of Cele and such so 500 healing power is easy to get. It isn't really that hard to get 8-900, maybe a 1k healing at a squeeze as remember its per a CAST not landing.

Add in the use of Water which will usually come with Water Trait line and the passive healing of Soothing Mists which is like 100 healing (no healing power) add in the trait that doubles that. That alone is like 1,000 Healing in 2 seconds being in water = using Dagger auto attack 4 times, Soothing Mists proccing twice. Seeing as how you dont have to hit anything, you can do it while running away or kitting as well.

10 second less cool down helps a little bit in terms of the difference, SoV does help with groups, Is it 1second ICD per an attack of the active for each person? I mean the damage is meh but still better than nothing but again it can be countered. Blocks, invuls, range, mobility, CC pretty much everything Necro is weak at lol

I wouldnt say "just" remove it, it would of course need tweaking numbers wise. It could be done similar how SoR works (if they went with the attack version) make it so you get the heal IF you like an attack on someone, rather than if you are attacking nothing. The passive is 325 So SoR is actually better. In that 1 second SoR can heal for just over 400, plus can continue to heal when not getting hit, unlike SoV. Where you HAVE to continue taking damage every second or you get nothing. This is where one of the issues come in. Healing Signet and SoR you get healing no matter. you dont need to be attacking someone, you dont need to be getting hit or anything. I didnt say remove ALL the ICD as the active is a stronger heal the ICD is fine, plus you get he minor damage bonus.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@steki.1478 said:SoR heals for 200 per attack. The only time where it would heal 1000 is on scepter burst which happens in 1-2 seconds. So it's not 1000 heal

per

second, it's 1000 heal

for

one second. You heal for 1k per second only with 500+ healing power when you manage to cast 3 skills every second, which is again, not easy to manage constantly due to cast times on most of ele skills.

Since we're already talking about ele's signet. Active heal is 3300 compared to 5000 on necro, it doesnt do damage and it doesnt heal you when you use it (unlike siphon part on necro which heals for additional 500 per second). Yes passive part sucks, but it's not even comparable to ele because they work completely different, opposite even.

And you cant just remove ICD on either active or passive part because it would be broken in any smaller fights due to nearly instant burst/heal (active) or basically unkillable in 1vx (passive).

Ok, ok, let me stop you there. At this point you're comparing ele with 500+ healing power to a necro with 0. What are you trying to achieve with that point? And please tell me what are those lots and lots of fast hitting abilities...

edit: ...and the rest of response isnt very bright either. What does water spec have to do with any of those signets? Necro player mentality keeps getting better and better lately. They start talking about one thing and focus on every single thing that necros dont have but others do, and are completely irrelevant to the main problem. Just wonderful, keep it up.

@"TheAgedGnome.7520" said:For some data....

In an OW fight w/3 mobs just now I was passive healed 22 times in a minute by Signet of Vampirism for 555-584 per occurrence. 555 * 22 = 12,210 hp/min.

By contrast, Consume Conditions is 5,674 (+ 767 per condi) with a 30s CD. In this case, SoV is equal or superior to CC. Upside was that this was entirely passive, and I didn't even touch the ~5K active initial heal; downside is it doesn't help with condition removal.

In total, for one minute:

• Signet of Vampirism 555-584 per occurrence. 555 * 22 = 12,210
• Vampiric Strikes healed 95 times for 41, so 95 8 41 = 3,895
• Vampiric Rituals w/Well of Suffering added 20 * 225 = 4,500
• Life Siphon (Dagger2) 8 * 494 = 3,952
• Total passive healing for 1 minute: 24,557

This is with HP of 325/445 (due to weapons difference - most of fight was at 325).Build:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRQQRAnY4Yn0ICN2gl2Au0A0uhjchaOEj9UQLj1oZhBQDkAA-jRiEwACViFw0XOlHk0IwS9nCKBBYGYj+gT7PQKg8UGB-e

Yeah, you got healed 22 times. You also got hit 22 times. I am assuming that isn't base healing power? Looks like you had a minimum of 475 Healing power. It wouldnt be 325, as you have the trait Last Rites which gives you 150 Healing power when above 75% health. Now. Lets look at SoR. In that same spam of 1 minute. Using just auto attacks and ZERO healing power. I woulds be proccing heals every 1/2second (Using Dagger Water) so i would be proccing the heal 44 times is 8,888 healing. With 382 Healing power, again easily done for an Ele is 10,560. This is slightly less healing BUT this healing doesnt require the ele to be hit. So i could get 10,500 healing without taking any damage. You have to get HIT 22 times. Something you dont really want to happen. Though if we are adding other forms of healing, i could add the Soothing Mists, the healing from Water skills and such as well. Adding Soothing Mists would add another 11,800 Healing (untraited) Take the trait and that DOUBLES so i could get MORE passive Healing from Traited Soothing Mists and increasing the healing power to 400 would be around 24,000 healing in 1minute with just needing to be in Water. Not attacking. not getting hit.

Wouldnt you get more healing out of Blood Bond? Only issue would be needing to use Scepter (or Earth Sigil) and the use of Death Shroud. The trait means that you reduce the cool down by 4% meaning every 1second you're in Shroud the trait cool down is reduced by 1.8seconds and the healing is like 3,300 so over the course of the fight you would get it off 4 times (assuming ZERO use of Shroud) meaning 13,200 healing in total. Vs the 2 uses of Well of Suffering which is 2,664 total healing

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@"DragonFury.6243" said:Only Warriors and ele allowed to have good HS

Take BiP also great sinergy with blighters boon.

@steki.1478 said:Ok, ok, let me stop you there. At this point you're comparing ele with 500+ healing power to a necro with 0. What are you trying to achieve with that point? And please tell me what are those lots and lots of fast hitting abilities...

edit: ...and the rest of response isnt very bright either. What does water spec have to do with any of those signets? Necro player mentality keeps getting better and better lately. They start talking about one thing and focus on every single thing that necros dont have but others do, and are completely irrelevant to the main problem. Just wonderful, keep it up.

At BASE healing Power. It heals for about 406 (give or take) every second. Doesnt need to be getting attacked. Doesnt need to actually be hitting someone either. i could up that to nearly 500 per 1second (again not needing to be hit) if i had like 3-400 Healing Power. Look at the above, comparing with his healing power (which is higher) Vs mine.

Taking Water for the best Auto attack. Dagger Water is 1/2second cast time. Thus. You're going to want to be in Water to get the best healing from it. This isn't something that SoV can do, as its a flat amount when you get hit. Pretty sure If it was based on you attacking, then people would be using Dagger as its example over say Scepter due to the faster auto attacks. Tried sticking with base Ele, as if went with Weaver the Sword Water skill also heals so it would be higher on that, though for the most part lots of the auto attacks are 1/2second cast time, Its just slower on certain weapons.

Comparing a Healing skill that heals per a cast, heals even if you dont hit something (poor design imo) against one that REQUIRES you to be hit. If SoV was changed to maybe a % of incoming direct damage heals you. So making it better to sustain them down, or Condi them down to be the better opinion. I mean if you're taking like a 5k hit every 1/2second getting a single proc of healing for 604 (traited) isnt going to do much for you. Being able to AVOID getting hit and STILL get healing will always be stronger.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@steki.1478 said:Ok, ok, let me stop you there. At this point you're comparing ele with 500+ healing power to a necro with 0. What are you trying to achieve with that point? And please tell me what are those lots and lots of fast hitting abilities...

edit: ...and the rest of response isnt very bright either. What does water spec have to do with any of those signets? Necro player mentality keeps getting better and better lately. They start talking about one thing and focus on every single thing that necros dont have but others do, and are completely irrelevant to the main problem. Just wonderful, keep it up.

Again, you just complain for the sake of complaining. Builds who use SoR

1. almost never use auto attacks since there are much better skills to use
2. absolutely never even cast water auto attack on dagger since it's usless

So not only that SoV outheals SoR passively, it has even bigger active heal+siphon.

The fact that SoV heals when being hit is irrelevant since it always happens in combat. SoR heals per cast because ele skills have cooldown and cast time, unlike thief whose signet heals per hit but skills have neither of those 2.

Then you're adding irrelevant water traits to this equation. Fine. How much health does necro have compared to ele? How much health does shroud give? How much life force can you get during combat to reactivate shroud? How much health can you leech/siphon while in shroud that heals your regular HP? How many traits on necro are you sacrificing for sustain? How many for condi cleanses? How many condi transfers does it have? How many gear stats are you using on defense (vit/tgh/healing)?

Please stop trying to compare with class you know nothing about and focus on your thread title.

@"steki.1478" said:Again, you just complain for the sake of complaining. Builds who use SoR

1. almost never use auto attacks since there are much better skills to use
2. absolutely never even cast water auto attack on dagger since it's usless

So not only that SoV outheals SoR passively, it has even bigger active heal+siphon.

The fact that SoV heals when being hit is irrelevant since it always happens in combat. SoR heals per cast because ele skills have cooldown and cast time, unlike thief whose signet heals per hit but skills have neither of those 2.

Then you're adding irrelevant water traits to this equation. Fine. How much health does necro have compared to ele? How much health does shroud give? How much life force can you get during combat to reactivate shroud? How much health can you leech/siphon while in shroud that heals your regular HP? How many traits on necro are you sacrificing for sustain? How many for condi cleanses? How many condi transfers does it have? How many gear stats are you using on defense (vit/tgh/healing)?

Please stop trying to compare with class you know nothing about and focus on your thread title.

Firstly. You are wrong. People who use SoR WILL be using auto attacks. Why? No cool down. Can be (most of them...) be used when running/Kitting someone. can be used with no target thus getting healed because you know, its per a CAST and not when you hit something. So people WILL be using the auto attack and if they don't. Well, they are wasting the healing. Unless they plan on using abilities to get the healing, though getting cool downs on their skills seem a little bit much for what they get back.

Imagine: You are running/Kiting someone. They are melee. You are at range. You have the option to use cool down abilities to get healing OR you can spam auto attack at nothing and get healing. What are you going to choose? Again, its not the damage that it does, its the cast time. You're going to want to be using the weapon skills that have the lowest cast time, this isnt a problem for some weapons like Sword as all auto attacks have the same. Thus you wont be missing too much how ever, some can be double that of other auto attacks. Like with staff you're better off using Air, Earth or Water over Fire as Fire is 1second and the others are 3/4second. Not a huge difference but every little helps.

Yes. It heals more IF you're being attacked. Therefore. Being hit and LOSING health. I would take slightly less healing and NOT need to be taking damage to get that healing. Granted the active is better. though again can be slightly wasted if you use it and someone goes range/LoS or what ever. You cant hit. You cant heal. So the active heal part is higher due to the extra 10second cool down that it has over SoR as well which is something that needs to be remembered. Without The active healing part that can be countered in 1minute fight, the active heals are reasonably similar as you can get 2 SoV off but 3 of SoR.

Yeah, so in a 1 minute fight, you have to be getting hit every 1second to get healing. SoR can be used on auto attacks alone that have half the cast time, thus used twice as fast. This is of course ignoring any instant cast use abilities they have. They can get healing every 1/2second even if they arent hitting anyone. As long as they can press the button. they are getting healed.

How many necros consider Death Shroud and Reaper shroud as extra health bars? Havent many been saying for a LONG time that it isn't a second health bar. yes it will block damage for a few seconds BUT the more they get hit, the less useful their shroud is as they wont be in it for as long. Thus losing the damage they offer.

Most of the last bit is highly dependent on the Shroud you use. You wouldnt want to be in Death Shroud for Leeching effects due to the long cast time of Auto attack and such, where as in Reaper its MUCH stronger, add in the blighters boon and such and Reaper is WAY better than Death Shroud for leeching. Where as for scourge, other than Transfusion (due to lower skill 4 cool down) the leech traits kinda suck for that "shroud"

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@"TheAgedGnome.7520" said:For some data....

In an OW fight w/3 mobs just now I was passive healed 22 times in a minute by Signet of Vampirism for 555-584 per occurrence. 555 * 22 = 12,210 hp/min.

By contrast, Consume Conditions is 5,674 (+ 767 per condi) with a 30s CD. In this case, SoV is equal or superior to CC. Upside was that this was entirely passive, and I didn't even touch the ~5K active initial heal; downside is it doesn't help with condition removal.

In total, for one minute:

• Signet of Vampirism
  555-584 per occurrence. 555 * 22 =
  12,210
• Vampiric Strikes
  healed 95 times for 41, so 95 8 41 =
  3,895
• Vampiric Rituals
  w/Well of Suffering added 20 * 225 =
  4,500
• Life Siphon
  (Dagger2) 8 * 494 =
  3,952
• Total passive healing
  for 1 minute:
  24,557

This is with HP of 325/445 (due to weapons difference - most of fight was at 325).Build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRQQRAnY4Yn0ICN2gl2Au0A0uhjchaOEj9UQLj1oZhBQDkAA-jRiEwACViFw0XOlHk0IwS9nCKBBYGYj+gT7PQKg8UGB-e

No, with Last Rites it was 325/445 as I reported.

Wouldnt you get more healing out of Blood Bond? Only issue would be needing to use Scepter (or Earth Sigil) and the use of Death Shroud.

Right, Blood Bond doesn't do me any good on my axe/dagger power build (not enough bleeds).

1) I've been running SoV for quite awhile now, and as long as I invest in Blood line and some HP, it works well. I have quite good survivability. No, I can't run a min-max build with 0 HP and get good results, but there's no reason min-max should get a free lunch. I don't see Anet granting more heal per hit, although I could maybe see a CD reduction to 0.75s or 0.5s, but even then its tricky, as it runs the risk of taking my 12.2K/min to 24.4K/min healing from SoV alone. That would be OP.

2) Converting SoV to per-attack instead of per-hit means the heal rate is now gated by your weapons attack times and CDs, and it no longer scales by the number of attackers. Both of those seem to not work since with a single attacker I could just use auto-attack and likely never die, but against multiple mobs, I'm not gaining enough extra healing, and I'm penalized for using long attack time/CD skills.

3) Because it is on-hit, SoV is a good choice for my facetanking power build and a poor choice for a kiting condi build. That doesn't make SoV bad, it just makes it build-dependent.

@TheAgedGnome.7520 said:No, with Last Rites it was 325/445 as I reported.

Wouldnt you get more healing out of Blood Bond? Only issue would be needing to use Scepter (or Earth Sigil) and the use of Death Shroud.

ah, so the healing Power increase is outside of combat as well? I didnt think that the build editor would show it applied, my mistake. Yeah that is my issue at the moment. Works fine with Scepter, obviously but not so great with dagger. Been giving Sigil of Earth a try, see if i can get a reasonable application to make it proc well enough. The only issue seems to be that the sigil doesnt proc enough in Shroud, with Dagger it isnt too bad. I have 40% Crit chance, so thinking i need to improve it a little bit more.

1) Though it has its counters. Conditions for a start. Burst damage. It would be strong against bunker builds granted. It wouldnt be as if it wouldn't have its own counters. When you're taking 5k+ auto attacks, the heal it grants isnt going to be that great. Though an idea could be to make it convert a % of the incoming damage to healing and then make the active a % of your out going damage into healing?

2) Maybe they could make it a mix between per cast and per hit, so if you hit someone then you get a heal. If you dont hit anyone then you don't. The difference would be that the heal would be from the hit. So you get the same healing if you hit one person and 100 people.

3) When you compare it to other kinda similar skills. Which dont have that weakness. Healing Signet for example. Heal no matter what. You're running? Heal. You're taking damage? Heal. Not taking damage? Heal. Thats the problem. The skill would still be very weak to conditions, would still be weak to insane burst damage be weaker to strong but low attacks as well.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@"DragonFury.6243" said:Only Warriors and ele allowed to have good HS

The reaper grandmaster trait that makes chill cause bleeding opens up your options a bit for getting the bleed threshold. Jus so you don’t feel like you’re stuck with scepter.

@"Sinful.2165" said:

The reaper grandmaster trait that makes chill cause bleeding opens up your options a bit for getting the bleed threshold. Jus so you don’t feel like you’re stuck with scepter.

Does it actually count as a bleed though? It just says that it deals damage over time. The icon being Bleeding could be typical Anet design and it not actually count as a chill. The other problem would be. Getting enough chill to be able to hit the 4stack. If Greatsword wasnt so slow and if chill counted as a bleed, then that could be an option with the auto attack applying Chill (iirc?) It has been a while since i last used GS so dunno if they changed that.

EDIT: As i suspected, the "bleed" from Deathly Chill isnt actually a bleed, it uses the icon but doesnt count as one (should really have a new icon...)

I don’t run anything that gives bleed (that I recall off hand). Yeah the chill gives actual bleed stacks.

You can trait for blind to cause chill which will also cause bleed and makes that well that pulses blind start to look much more appealing. Also you can RS5 for the ice field and RS4 whirl finisher inside of it to send chill bolts out that in turn cause more bleeding.

Just fooling around on my reaper running well of darkness, the AoE elite shout and using combos in ice fields puts out a pretty big stack of bleeds.

Edit: Oh also the spite specialization trait that triggers the ice blast and the reaper trait that does another ice blast attacking a chilled enemy. There is also RS2 blind (+chill +bleed). And GS4 blind.

@Sinful.2165 said:I don’t run anything that gives bleed (that I recall off hand). Yeah the chill gives actual bleed stacks.

You can trait for blind to cause chill which will also cause bleed and makes that well that pulses blind start to look much more appealing. Also you can RS5 for the ice field and RS4 whirl finisher inside of it to send chill bolts out that in turn cause more bleeding.

Just fooling around on my reaper running well of darkness, the AoE elite shout and using combos in ice fields puts out a pretty big stack of bleeds.

Edit: Oh also the spite specialization trait that triggers the ice blast and the reaper trait that does another ice blast attacking a chilled enemy. There is also RS2 blind (+chill +bleed). And GS4 blind.

Ah, I saw the bleeding, i just thought it was from the trait proccing at the right time. Checked again and it does indeed inflict a bleed. So that does make GS slightly more viable. Only problems would be Losing Blighters boon which with Spite grants SO much Might and healing in Shroud. The auto attack on GS is just too slow for it to really be that viable. Scepter does it quicker, applies more conditions. Corrupts a boon and can be done from range.

yeah i am just playing around really, trying to get back into the game. Played a bit on Core Necro so i kinda want a build that can work between them both so i dont really have to change traits or gear as much.