When support does more DPS than the best DPS spec of your class

No words needed:

Can someone send me tons of salt?

Even though this is a little bit cheated, due to not having ea in discipline.

100 tons of salt send. but lets try to be constructive.

i dont play pve by myself but what i am reading is, necro atm is slowly crawling in direction of that dps benchmarks with the latest Patches.

what would you further suggest to solve the dps Problem?

I don't get the problem really. We have recently got buffs that are good and the DPS another class does is irrelevant to this class.

Berserker is not support, its dps with banners :D

I guess one can argue that support berserker dps potential is not as reliable as scourge dps (with some support).

Anyway, the reality is that berserker's mechanical way to deal damage harm less PvP and WvW which in return allow it to have more potential damage in PvE where the fight are less dynamics. On the other hand, Necromancer's mechanical way to deal damage tend to harm more PvP and WvW dynamic fight and thus end up with less potential damage for "balance" (Read: to avoid PvPer complains in the forum).

And since ANet dislike mechanical change and favor number's update, there is little to no hope for the necromancer to overcome a "support" like the berserker.

@"Dadnir.5038" said:I guess one can argue that support berserker dps potential is not as reliable as scourge dps (with some support).

Well scourge DPS is like 4-5k behind this warrior DPS.Guess even if you fail the rotation a bit on warrior, you might still be doing more dmg than the perfectly played scourge. Sure, it also depends on whether the enemy is moving or not.

But theoretically against the non moving target, power reaper is the best. But it's more likely to fail on reaper, than on warrior I think.Or not fail, I don't know how to put it.-Loose Scholar bonus in shroud because you went in there below 90% health-loose shroud way too quickly because of incoming dmg (most likely being retaliation, ambient dmg,trash mobs)

Anyway, the reality is that berserker's mechanical way to deal damage harm less PvP and WvW which in return allow it to have more potential damage in PvE where the fight are less dynamics. On the other hand, Necromancer's mechanical way to deal damage tend to harm more PvP and WvW dynamic fight and thus end up with less potential damage for "balance" (Read: to avoid PvPer complains in the forum).

And since ANet dislike mechanical change and favor number's update, there is little to no hope for the necromancer to overcome a "support" like the berserker.

Well, they reworked scrapper, they reworked rev, they reworked mesmer and thief. Time to rework necro

@Zero.3871 said:100 tons of salt send. but lets try to be constructive.

i dont play pve by myself but what i am reading is, necro atm is slowly crawling in direction of that dps benchmarks with the latest Patches.

what would you further suggest to solve the dps Problem?

The devs have shown a willingness to give necros a nice thing in exchange for a bad thing, see Sand Savant in sPvP/WvW. The trick with necro is if you give it too much damage, it quickly becomes oppressive in competitive modes.

I could see a trait rework or replacement where necro gets a damage multiplier in exchange for a loss in another stat. Replacing Corrupter's Fervor or Unholy Sanctuary with something like +10% damage and -180 vitality might bring up necro DPS and get some play out of an underutilized trait line, especially if some other traits got a rework.

@Hesacon.8735 said:

@Zero.3871 said:

100 tons of salt send

. but lets try to be constructive.

i dont play pve by myself but what i am reading is, necro atm is slowly crawling in direction of that dps benchmarks with the latest Patches.

what would you further suggest to solve the dps Problem?

You know, there's a thing called skill split. You coud easily tweak numbers in pve only.

To main problem right now is this:Scourge has defensive support, which noone wants in raids as it's not needed.

If there would be mechanics, that you cannot block and that would oneshot you without having barrier, this would change.

And yes I want a necro rework as well. Especially deathmagic traitline.

Scourge needs so much of a rework its not even funny.They were nerfed in condi application and now are pure power.I think scourge should be pure condi.In pve as said by nimon we got skill splits for a reason.

The second problem though is some people have double standards.Necros aren't allowed to have nice things because some view that they are easy to learn.Its about time Reaper do equal damage to another dps class such as (elementalist) in pve. as double standards are bad for the game, and encourage elitism and class racism.

Heck even soul reaping needs changes, even the pets.I don't think the pets are in a ok situation.There are so many stuff like dagger now.

@Axl.8924 said:Scourge needs so much of a rework its not even funny.They were nerfed in condi application and now are pure power.I think scourge should be pure condi.In pve as said by nimon we got skill splits for a reason.

Scourge need a rework since PoF release, he got crappy numbers tweaks which led him to power scourge. Though, I'm not against power scourge, I think no e-spec should be forced into a single kind of damage.

The second problem though is some people have double standards.Necros aren't allowed to have nice things because some view that they are easy to learn.Its about time Reaper do equal damage to another dps class such as (elementalist) in pve. as double standards are bad for the game, and encourage elitism and class racism.

I think elementalists should be the best dps against large target, but necromancers should be able to be equal to them against small target, so I partially agree with you.

Heck even soul reaping needs changes, even the pets.I don't think the pets are in a ok situation.There are so many stuff like dagger now.

Well, ANet's recent choice on soul reaping weren't exactly good for balance, Death magic is rotting since the spec system introduction, undead minions have always been in a kinda awkwards situation, weapons skills have so many effect piled up on each others to compensate their slow cast time that it's beyond common sense, some trait create chain reaction of conditions... etc. You could directly say that the necromancer as a whole is a mess and you wouldn't be wrong.

I was playing berserker Berserker, yesterday, in PoF maps and it felt glassier than zerker core Necro. I did marvel at the dps bursts, though.

Training golems do not fight back.

@Nimon.7840 said:

@Hesacon.8735 said:

@Zero.3871 said:

100 tons of salt send

. but lets try to be constructive.

i dont play pve by myself but what i am reading is, necro atm is slowly crawling in direction of that dps benchmarks with the latest Patches.

what would you further suggest to solve the dps Problem?

I think the biggest problem with skill split is the amount of work to implement one for a skill. For us, we see ONE skill, but to Anet, it's two ... or even more if they split for each game mode. It seems to me the trend is that they split a skill in two flavours, then decide what flavour they like and unsplit them. It's happened lots of times so far. Skill splitting appears to be used as a tool for testing and balancing the skill, not intentionally maintain a separation for a long term.

I'm still crossing my fingers for more core love, though at this point, I don't see much in core they would do to excite me enough to dump my Reaper and Scourge builds. If it was easy to tweak the numbers, even with skill splits, we would have seen lots of more changes happen along those lines. I'm not giving up hope, but we should stop being so assuming about how easy it is; clearly there are other factors that don't make this easy that we don't see. For example, no question in my mind that Anet is puts significant effort into class theme, whether we like it or not. That have made that strong connection at the class and trait level and even seen some skills realigned to theme (DH Piercing Light changing from a Daze to a Slow for instance)