Spiteful Spirit?

Spiteful Spirit: The area-of-effect damage inflicted by this trait has been split and will now use a 50% reduced value in PvP and WvW. Wow this amazes me, lol. It's almost like there is a need to nerf necro that deeply burns until that need is satisfied. Honestly, compared to all the OP skills out there why pick on this one? Oh well, as the great Indian chief told the President in the old days, " We shall strive to perservere". :p

Yeah, they may have read the forums and saw how much work it would be to nerf Mirage, Deadeye, Firebrand, Scourge, Holosmith and thought: "Ok, that's too much to do, just nerf core necro"

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It's OP in PvP...With the right build, the moment you get someone to below 50% health all it takes is to pop shroud and you can kill them from passive procs, what makes it more OP is the boon corrupt so it's a good thing that wasn't touched... That's more beneficial than a bit of damage.

@Acyk.9671 said:Purity of purpose change, Anet wants this trait to be about boon corrupt while another is about damage, nothing complicated here.Also reaper in pvp could kill low hp target by just entering shroud.

This guy gets it, so promote that man! It's an instant cast ability too essentially.

D:

Ya I can see the basic premise, but don't agree. With the limited aoe it needed a good setup for the damage part, np just glad the retal and corrupt wasn't touched this time.

@"sephiroth.4217" said:It's OP in PvP...With the right build, the moment you get someone to below 50% health all it takes is to pop shroud and you can kill them from passive procs, what makes it more OP is the boon corrupt so it's a good thing that wasn't touched... That's more beneficial than a bit of damage.

That's a PvP only problem then. 90% players that either are to stupid or to bad to not fight necro on range.

In wvw this was nearly the only good counter against thiefes.

And to "oneshot" someone from below 50%. Very conditional. You needed spiteful spirit and the passive spinal shivers to proceed and crit at the same time.Or the enemy was just full glass.

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:It's OP in PvP...With the right build, the moment you get someone to below 50% health all it takes is to pop shroud and you can kill them from passive procs, what makes it more OP is the boon corrupt so it's a good thing that wasn't touched... That's more beneficial than a bit of damage.

PvP is all glass since they removed all the defensive amulets so as for your "very conditional" comment, only condition to be met is "are they below 50?"....

Not. A. Hard. Thing. To. Do.

(Bonus damage points if they happen to catch someones random boons or thier own)

Next they will nerf reaper AA. Gs 4 and revert some dmg buffs, then change quickness on shroud trait.Core necro will be even worsePower reaper will be slightly playable but without any ability to burst or live in fights.Scourge is in the gutter already.

New expansion spec is coming?

@"sephiroth.4217" said:It's OP in PvP...With the right build, the moment you get someone to below 50% health all it takes is to pop shroud and you can kill them from passive procs, what makes it more OP is the boon corrupt so it's a good thing that wasn't touched... That's more beneficial than a bit of damage.Reaper's Onslaught and Death Perception is the problem and not Spiteful Spirit. This trait wasn't a problem for 6 years. Exactly like Chill of Death has never been a problem.

ANet added shroud damage that everybody can easily avoid - even scourge can when he equips the teleport. But they removed every non avoidable damage. Tell me how can I avoid an immune to power damage warrior destroying me or a soulbeast or deadeye sniping me from 1500 range or a mirage that can only be damaged 10% of the time the fight lasts because he is evading or outranging me the other 90% or a revenant that does a series of blocks and evades while damaging, chilling and blinding me at the same time and then just disengages?

PvP is all glass since they removed all the defensive amulets so as for your "very conditional" comment, only condition to be met is "are they below 50?"....So why was it nerfed in WvW? Where is the endure pain nerf in WvW? Where is the rev staff5 nerf in WvW? Where is the rifle damage nerf in WvW? Where is the longbow nerf in WvW?

As long as the shroud skill also effect the area around the scourge, it will remain op.

@Virelion.4128 said:Next they will nerf reaper AA. Gs 4 and revert some dmg buffs, then change quickness on shroud trait.Core necro will be even worsePower reaper will be slightly playable but without any ability to burst or live in fights.Scourge is in the gutter already.

Nope, I'd bet on weakening shroud It's the last proc on necromancer that haven't been nerfed. ANet don't really answer the issues, they slightly tilt the balance with number tweak and hope that it will make players happy.

New expansion spec is coming?

Nope again, I think I've seen somewhere that after PoF there will be an x-pac break of 2 Living story season. Since we are still in the first it's not going to happen soon.

@KrHome.1920 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:It's OP in PvP...With the right build, the moment you get someone to below 50% health all it takes is to pop shroud and you can kill them from passive procs, what makes it more OP is the boon corrupt so it's a good thing that wasn't touched... That's more beneficial than a bit of damage.Reaper's Onslaught and Death Perception is the problem and not Spiteful Spirit. This trait wasn't a problem for 6 years. Exactly like Chill of Death has never been a problem.

PvP is all glass since they removed all the defensive amulets so as for your "very conditional" comment, only condition to be met is "are they below 50?"....So why was it nerfed in WvW? Where is the endure pain nerf in WvW? Where is the rifle damage nerf in WvW? Where is the longbow nerf in WvW?

We didnt have elite specs 6 years ago and aye aye aye calm down my friend, Im not Anet... I didnt make the changes or propose any but it does fall in line with the direction they have taken recently to reduce passive killing/life saving traits...

Like I said, im just thankful they didnt touch the boon corruption part of the skill as that is way more beneficial

(Curios how reapers onslaught or death perception had anything to do with passive damaging nukes? Did you mean to say that proc from spiteful spirit activates chill of death proc as the problem? Because stacking those 2 is mostly how you would shroud nuke someone, especially if they had any forms of boons up)

I don't know if you were just grasping there or not but Spectral Pull would literally solve most of your issues you listed there.

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:It's OP in PvP...With the right build, the moment you get someone to below 50% health all it takes is to pop shroud and you can kill them from passive procs, what makes it more OP is the boon corrupt so it's a good thing that wasn't touched... That's more beneficial than a bit of damage.

We no?What about the power, precision, toughness, ferocity amulet?As I remember correctly there are still toughness and vitality amulets in-game.

And if you run offensive amulett, maybe it's good to pack some defensive traits or skills?!!!!!!

As I said dumb PvP players behaviour.

"Mi,mi,mi, I got huge dmg from another class, that has no real defenses and no mobility, mi,mi,mi" said the rev that is easily able to oneshot (or almost oneshot) anyone.

Necro has so few defenses, I can count them with one hand:1: 2 dodges that any class has2: protection from spectral armor3: shroud4: depends on spec, maybe nightfall (easy to counter) or infusing terror for reaper, for scourge its barrier5: you could count deathmagic, but the traitline overall just isn't good enough if compared with other choices you have.

So a class, that has no evade, no block or invulnerability, what is it supposed to do, if it's not allowed to do dmg?

@Nimon.7840 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:It's OP in PvP...With the right build, the moment you get someone to below 50% health all it takes is to pop shroud and you can kill them from passive procs, what makes it more OP is the boon corrupt so it's a good thing that wasn't touched... That's more beneficial than a bit of damage.

I have no idea what your issue is but like I said to the other guy, im not anet... Filling my tub with your tears wont accomplish much either

The change is really mundane anyway, it wont effect people unless they were being carried by it... The boon corrupt is the most important mechanic that trait/skill brings to the table.

Ok, let's see it as "Reaper is so overpowered in pvp" and accept this chance was necessary (which it imho isn't - i haven't seen more than one reaper in almost a day of playing pvp).1) Why isn't the nerf pvp only?2) Why are deadeye for example allowed to oneshot you in pvp? The argument "stay out of the reapers range" is the same as "just use your LoS" when you fight deadeye. The only difference is you always see where the reaper is while the deadeye is not visible most of the time3) there are a ton of abilities with high damage that are unblockable which get no similar treatment4) I don't see any justification for this in WvW. Has anyone here lost vs a reaper recently? On mesmer I kite his shroud, kill him (or moa him in shroud). Most melees just facetank or block the damage. As a range you should have zero problems vs a reaper if you aren't trapped in a 10x10 room

they nerfed it for the exact same reason chill of death was nerfed, and why Charged Mists for revenant got reworked: they want passive and no animation burst traits to be less effective.This trait was not exactly a passive proc but it had no animation, and no way for anyone to know when the necro will pop shroud and chunk you.

As an aside i expect Primal Echoes for druid to get reworked as well since it is a hard cc with no tell in the same vein spiteful spirit is a no tell attack.

It will still be used by most people as the other 2 traits in pvp are very underpowered

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Seriously? Whats with the necro hate?

Whats next? take away Damage and quickness? oh god no I better not give any ideas to ANET or they will gut reaper and make them unplayable in pvp and pve, because baddies wont learn to not facetank.

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No it has because reaper was under performing before the buffs and now its going to get lobotomized again because baddies wont learn to play. People want reaper, a class with no invulns and very little stability, who is forced to eat blows and die, who cannot run away, have his damage cut down with a chainsaw. If you wonder why i'm hostile towards Acyk, is because I cannot take him seriously. Reaper has no mobility and no way to avoid damage such as mobility or invulns, so shroud gets destroyed fast. if they have no damage, then the sacrifice of damage becomes non existent. You might as well just delete necromancers from the game.

Any real discussion begins with balancing ideas. Balancing isn't just nerfing something with a hammer, because that might just unbalance things. Balance is a lot finer, and involves fine tuning something so it feels fair as well for the class that is being tuned, and not just for the convenience of other classes. Say for instance, if you cut off the arms and legs and thus gut reaper by taking away its damage, it becomes a free kill class, and how would that be fair? Reaper is already too hard countered by some classes because of the lack of invulns, and now with the nerf to damage its even harder countered, and he wants to gut reapers.

How about this:

First before nerfing reaper anymore, nerf:

Holosmith, nerf it hard.

Warriors:Too much sustain and damage.Thief:Nerf Deadeye damage.Mirage:They need a lot more nerfs to be balanced. mesmers in general hit too hard and have too much mobility and sustain, and its way broken.Soulbeast:Insane dmg and sustain combined nerf it.

A lot of them have more sustain. Its not balanced if one class is hard countered by every class, and nerfing them might make them hard countered by everything, and as I said: This is not a 1 side conversation to be had with necros or any compromise will be made.

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@foste.3098 said:they nerfed it for the exact same reason chill of death was nerfed, and why Charged Mists for revenant got reworked: they want passive and no animation burst traits to be less effective.This trait was not exactly a passive proc but it had no animation, and no way for anyone to know when the necro will pop shroud and chunk you.

As an aside i expect Primal Echoes for druid to get reworked as well since it is a hard cc with no tell in the same vein spiteful spirit is a no tell attack.

I totally get the first part and I think it's also the reason sigil of hydro/geo and air/blood etc got removed from PvP a while ago. Like I love using SS and it is so potent because it's instant cast aoe 2-4 boon corrupt. I wouldn't care if they made it do zero power damage (actually I would because if it did zero then plague sending would be slightly harder to proc so like... 0.001 coeff would be fine by me). It would still be amazing for what it does. But if Anet wants to reduce the passive/no animation stuff, damage reduction is not the way to go. They should give it the enfeeble/weakening shroud treatment. Both are GM traits that corrupts boons in an aoe when entering shroud but enfeeble has an animation cast time while entering shroud. Don't give it 2 seconds though. Like both traits should have a 0.5-1 second delay on the damage. Maybe different timing on both GMs so that if you take both, someone can only dodge one before getting hit by the other. If Anet wants to reduce no animation bursts, keep the old damage numbers on SS but make the change that gives actual fair counter play.

I never expected anyone to talk about primal echo for PvP since DC is so much better in PvP but yes, it follows the same logic that it doesn't have much counter play and should be changed.

@Acyk.9671 said:I am talking about WvW as Massive PvP openfield (10+ to zerg) not roaming. Balance is about every class but we are in a Necro section so i talk about Necro. (I'll pass on your attitude this time and develop so you understand)

Reaper not being meta has nothing to do with damage output but its inability to be reliable in melee because of WoD and scourge (low stab output).Reaper does way more damage than scourge on dps meter by a large margin. Not having mobility in group isn't a handicap since Swiftness and Super speed are provided by every other meta classes.

Rework scourge to not be played as power but more as a hybrid damage dealer, directly or with corrupt, or full condi + support. This way you don't end up with 20 scourges in every optimized squad that can deal power+ condi damage + corrupt + provide high barrier. They would have to spec more.

WoD has been nerfed but it's not enough. Nerf radius from 360 to 300 (lower cast time) and lesser endure pain to 3 sec. This will stop groups from pirate shipping for 90% of the time and rely heavily on 3/4 spellbreakers to chain their bubble to finally initiate a movement that will result on a single push. It's unhealthy for the game mode.

After this, melee specs like reaper/holo/tempest can return in meta. Once its done, Reaper damage MIGHT BECOME a problem and MIGHT NEED a small reduction to its ferocity in shroud. It doesn't mean that it's necessary or that other classes should stay the way they are, of course holosmith needs its CC/damage to be nerfed.

Thief/Mirage should have been nerfed when POF came out, but it's purely roaming/pvp. I don't need to be convinced about this, they are cancerous.Soulbeast could use some tweaks to have a spot in group even if the lack of reliable weapons is a major problem (dagger wasn't a good idea for WvW).

The problem is though Scourge has the problem of being a aoe spec. You were talking about reaper, and scourge is already viable in WVW and dominates in group content due to aoe bombing, and I think scourge has more sustain than reaper anyways, since you got huge amount of condi corrupt on call plus the barrier, and a lot of your attacks have more range.

In Roaming though Reaper still has the issue of lack of sustain outside of reaper shroud, making them easy prey.

The compensation is needed for reaper to be viable in spvp group play, since they struggle to be viable as solo roamers due to lack of sustain outside shroud, and in shroud its so short, that without a firebrand next to you or some form of support with heal, you will get destroyed.