Kralkatorrik's new size renders and comparison

Hey, it wouldnt be me if i hadnt make new Kralkatorrik's model render comparison. Acutally I datamined his new model the day the patch was up, but unluckily I cant texture it! I found right textures for sure, but they doesnt fit like they do on other models. So i gave up and rendered it without textures....

Here is render from side of both Kralk's models. I also added Zhaitan for comparison:https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RHHXUEUp3pbXQ3KqTVTf4VrXf9BgYonm

Here two heads of Kralks from front:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1D1fhBSbHzADdqzRAJLwqAzh8sCu4iyFi

To make him puttable in the cave, they resized him by 50% i think (measuring two heads). Yet his neck is still larger than whole Zhaitan with tails.

Im really sad about no working textures. If there is someone who did it right and textures fit the model, please tell me!

Ah I figured he had been reduced. I thought he looked way too small. Good job on this

Zhaitan was such a puny “god” xD

How many Kasmeers is that?

What I don't understand though, is this comment;

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65299/kralkatorrik-size#latest

If what you have provided is accurate, it's the complete opposite to the official dev statement which claims his model is in parts marginally larger than his PoF version

@"Randulf.7614" said:What I don't understand though, is this comment;

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65299/kralkatorrik-size#latest

If what you have provided is accurate, it's the complete opposite to the official dev statement which claims his model is in parts marginally larger than his PoF version

Yes, that is strange. Also, the rendered image they showed during Guild Chat also displayed some of Kralkatorrik's wing it seemed, indicating a model much larger than merely the neck. (EDIT: Not to mention the neck isn't nearly so long in that render... Same looks, just elongated in Vyko's render pull... Is Kralk's neck a xylophone???)

Said image

Maybe the reason @"Vyko.6953" couldn't get the texture to fit was because of grabbing the wrong rig? Could they have made two for some reason?

And Vyko, do you think it's possible to put Zhaitan, old Zhaitan, Primordus, (Mouth of) Mordremoth, and both Kralkatorrik models in the same image? E.g., an updated version of this image?

EDIT: You know, looking at it now, if Vyko did grab the right model and Anet fibbed about the two being "the same size, but the new one is proportionally larger in some spots", I just realized that the original, unused Zhaitan would be roughly the size of the new Kralkatorrik... Kralk would still be larger, but not by much, since the final Zhaitan's full length is about head + neck of the original Zhaitan (if uncurved), and the new Kralk's head and neck is about 1.25 of final Zhaitan's full length.

I never realized how small Mordremoth is. He always looked so large..... Meanwhile Primordus is over here taking up half the picture... lol And poor Zhaitan. Looks pieced together with 20 other dragons and still a chump.

@"Randulf.7614" said:What I don't understand though, is this comment;

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65299/kralkatorrik-size#latest

If what you have provided is accurate, it's the complete opposite to the official dev statement which claims his model is in parts marginally larger than his PoF version

I see. My opinion is: she said that model is almost exact the same size, BUT as you can see the new model has much longer neck. So with longer neck and the same size of whole model, head is 2 times smaller. Because these models are just exported from data and imported into 3D program in the same scale, so I should have it in their original sizes. When I arrive home, I will check it again.

To Konig Des Todes:I saw that picture with wings and i was really surprised, they actually maybe have the whole dragon modeled! Want that!Sadly that model isnt in data, for sure. Im searching for models by the biggest size (in bytes). Eder dragons are at top, because they have more polygons and their models have big size (in bytes). I was searching hours, then I finally found Aurene. I also found dead Glint.

But you are right, the rig of new Kralk is wrong, or rather said there is no rig of textures in his model. All other models, when I import them as OBJ, have already rigged textures - you just also have to find textures in data, then import them into program and they fit nicely, but Kralk's model doesnt have it. Maybe devs dont want us to do such things!When I arrive home I will make render of all dragons including Aurene and Glint

@"Vyko.6953" said:When I arrive home I will make render of all dragons including Aurene and Glint

I am pretty curious about size comparison of Glint to the champions.

Would like two images personally, for the wiki:

• One of Glint, Aurene, Vlast, + Dragon Champions (Teq, Shatterer, etc.) with final Zhaitan to scale. To replace this image.
• One of early Zhaitan, final Zhaitan, Mouth of Mordremoth, Primordus, first Kralkatorrik, latest Kralkatorrik. To replace this image.

There was mention of an earlier quick rig they knocked up to see if they could get the whole thing to work as intended. Perhaps that explains any discrepancy?

All dragons top view (had it in 2 times larger resolution, but google drive didnt want to show the picture)https://drive.google.com/open?id=1rS8Z5oB3N0bWeiPabIQErYaPXqcQ4aCw

elder dragons side view https://drive.google.com/open?id=1t_WJj1DMgpap-N6cFFsvZMPQeXF0h_L_

@"cptaylor.2670" said:I never realized how small Mordremoth is. He always looked so large..... Meanwhile Primordus is over here taking up half the picture... lol And poor Zhaitan. Looks pieced together with 20 other dragons and still a chump.

Well to be fair these things are so kitten large that only Zhaitan has actually had the fully body treatment.We've had an up close and personal encounter with both Kralkatorrik and Primordus's heads and one encounter with one of Mordremoths mouths.Mordremoth is still the biggest of the dragons by far although it's impossible to know by how much.. considering he was more or less a colossal ball of vines xDOne giant heart/seed with tens of thousands if not millions of vines growing from it and spreading for miles and miles across the continent.. least thats the image I get when I think of him.We do know that each of his vines was directly connected to his body and we can find these vines as far as Ascalon and Timberline Falls.. so yeah he was absurdly massive considering he's completely immobile.

the devs could always shrink our character model to give us the full experience of how massive elder dragons are

hmmm... wait, they already have that, Endless Miniature Tonichow silly of me to make such suggestion :lol:

@Randulf.7614 said:There was mention of an earlier quick rig they knocked up to see if they could get the whole thing to work as intended. Perhaps that explains any discrepancy?

That would make sense. The one Vyko is showing seems to have a smaller chin than the final rendition, and I recall them talking about how it was made larger mid-development. But the final new one should be in the dat too, so that's weird.

Maybe @Cameron Rich.3905 can solve this mystery for us, since he answered the question about Kralk's size during the celebration thread.

@"Vyko.6953" said:All dragons top view (had it in 2 times larger resolution, but google drive didnt want to show the picture)https://drive.google.com/open?id=1rS8Z5oB3N0bWeiPabIQErYaPXqcQ4aCw

elder dragons side view https://drive.google.com/open?id=1t_WJj1DMgpap-N6cFFsvZMPQeXF0h_L_

Seems the old Zhaitan model doesn't look so large as I thought when compared to Kralk's (probably temp) new model. And Glint's smaller compared to the champions than I would have expected, but am not very surprised at this. Was expecting Glint to be larger than Vlast though, not roughly the same size.

Why is old Zhaitan still top down in the 'side view' though? ;)

Incidentally, now that we've met Kralk face-to-face literally, Primordus' new model looks totally unfeasibly huge.

And now I'm wanting a comparison of GW1 models. :I

@"Teratus.2859" said:We've had an up close and personal encounter with both Kralkatorrik and Primordus's heads and one encounter with one of Mordremoths mouths.Mordremoth is still the biggest of the dragons by far although it's impossible to know by how much.. considering he was more or less a colossal ball of vines xDOne giant heart/seed with tens of thousands if not millions of vines growing from it and spreading for miles and miles across the continent.. least thats the image I get when I think of him.We do know that each of his vines was directly connected to his body and we can find these vines as far as Ascalon and Timberline Falls.. so yeah he was absurdly massive considering he's completely immobile.

By all indication, there's only one Mouth of Mordremoth, and that's Mordy's core body. The vines aren't the same body but "additional" bodies. Think Ultron-styled hive mind, with one central body and dozens of extras that he could survive in should the central body die.

To Konig Des Todes:Glint looks like exactly same size as she was in GW1. I like that Vlast is as big as she is, they at least look like a family :DI rotated old Zhaitan liek that because it looked like a mess when it was rotated same way as others. But I have one very interesting thing - I tried to move his parts to recreate that dragon with parts that we have - i duplicated his arm and wing and straighten his neck. I will show again when i arrive home.I would love to have GW1 models too, there was Kuunavang (btw i got everlasting Kuunavang tonic from birthday gift, lucky me :o ), Glint, Drakkar (hope we will meet it again!), old Primordus (or was it just his another champ?), old Kralkatorrik. I have tool for data mining GW1 data, but i dont know how to use it. I found textures, but I cant get models.

Kralkatorrik is described in the wiki as being a thousand feet high, which is about two thirds of the Empire State Building from ground to tip. He is so big that he was literally mistaken for a mountain when he was sleeping. Taking his height as a measure of scale and thinking of typical fantasy dragon type bodies, he's probably at least a mile long. That immense size is why he mostly appears only as a head in the distance; he's simply too big to model normally. And that was before he started absorbing the powers of other dragons and Balthy. Realistically, there's no way any being as small as our characters should be able to affect him without a LOT of outside help. So of course, he had to be scaled down #1 to get him to fit within the game's modeling capabilities, #2 to make him small enough that we could interact with him in a way besides being stepped on like ants.

Of course, you could game the size change simply by saying that all the power Kralk has gained has enabled him to alter his size somewhat. I mean, if he can enter the Mists and all that, then simply getting smaller should be child's play.

In fact, maybe that's why Zhaitan was so relatively small and able to be brought down by Pact airships. The Pact had already done a lot specifically to weaken Zhaitan before that final fight. Dragon size in proportion to their available power? It's a thought...

I can measure his size, like I did with Zhaitan, which i wrote on wiki. All models are imported in real size, because when i imported human model, she had 190 cm, which sounds real. Comparison with some buildings: https://drive.google.com/open?id=10toYJE77NMuDYY8PIf0OQ1b1EBXefSMG

That is a very cool comparison.

Ive come to think that 1000ft is somewhat unreliable or at least exaggerated by the observers. The mountain in gw1 whilst only part of his back, didnt feel proprtionately like a 1000ft monster. So whilst i love the idea of such a titan (esp after watching godzilla films and playing xenoblades 2), i think the size might be right after all

@"Vyko.6953" said:I can measure his size, like I did with Zhaitan, which i wrote on wiki. All models are imported in real size, because when i imported human model, she had 190 cm, which sounds real. Comparison with some buildings: https://drive.google.com/open?id=10toYJE77NMuDYY8PIf0OQ1b1EBXefSMG

Great work!Unfortunately, now I want to see Kralkatorrik take a bite out of the Burj Khalifa. In fact the elder crystal dragon could take out a significant chunk of earth's architecture.It also explains why elder dragons need so much magic. Without magic he'd bee too large to fly.

@"Randulf.7614" said:That is a very cool comparison.

Ive come to think that 1000ft is somewhat unreliable or at least exaggerated by the observers. The mountain in gw1 whilst only part of his back, didnt feel proprtionately like a 1000ft monster. So whilst i love the idea of such a titan (esp after watching godzilla films and playing xenoblades 2), i think the size might be right after all

The Effle Tower is 984" tall according to a brief google search, and the Burj Khalifa is just 2,722 feet tall, so Kralkatorrik being on all fours reaching ~1,000 feet looks short with that size of neck and head. Unless he has very stubby legs.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:The Eiffel Tower is 324 metres tall according to a brief google search, and the Burj Khalifa is just 828 metres tall, so Kralkatorrik being on all fours reaching ~304,8 metres looks short with that size of neck and head. Unless he has very stubby legs.

I can't help but wonder how heavy Kralkatorrik is. Many of these buildings are considerably lighter than Kralky must be. The Eiffel Tower is relatively light at 10,100 tons of iron (yes, it's not made of steel!). The Burj Khalifa has a mass of over 500,000 tons and it's still far less bulky than Kralkatorrik. So Kralkatorriks mass might be several million tons, depending on the elder dragon's density. If it is close to steel and concrete, that may be the second heaviest dragon on Tyria with Primordus being the heaviest.

Jormag and the deep sea dragon may be more dense and/or larger than Kralkatorrik and Primordus. In fact, given that Primordus moves underground, at that size he has to be able to shift his form to something smaller / malleable else he'd just annihilate Central Tyria by shrugging. And given the DSD is underwater, it has the opportunity to be the largest/heaviest without its own weight crushing it due to water buoyancy.

But I'd imagine that magic helps them keep their weight to not just sink deep into the ground when walking. Pressure + weight would make them sink otherwise.

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Jormag and the deep sea dragon may be more dense and/or larger than Kralkatorrik and Primordus. In fact, given that Primordus moves underground, at that size he has to be able to shift his form to something smaller / malleable else he'd just annihilate Central Tyria by shrugging. And given the DSD is underwater, it has the opportunity to be the largest/heaviest without its own weight crushing it due to water buoyancy.

But I'd imagine that magic helps them keep their weight to not just sink deep into the ground when walking. Pressure + weight would make them sink otherwise.

I've always had the impression that the Elder Dragons are like many of H.P. Lovecraft's monsters, in that some fraction of their immense size is not really matter as we know it, but magic.

Primourdus can probably morph into Lava to travel, or maybe he just forms his physical body of it.

As i promised here is fun recreate of old Zhaitan's body from what we have:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1M5YiQQs2_ozMmfjKRAXeH-mG5-i8ksKa