What is good about PvE Scrapper?

I recently started testing out a Scrapper for just general PvE and I don't quite get it. None of the gyros seem that great compared to other utility skills. The hammer does do very decent damage but I do perfectly fine with a core Engi build and rifle. Since the Engi can't swap weapons, it feels limiting to be forced to melee everything. I have very limited experience with the Scrapper so just curious if there is something I'm missing?

I only use the Bulwark Gyro in PVE. The hammer offers a good mix of sustain and DPS. You do have ranged options with kits, so you aren't forced to melee all the time if you don't want. I don't think you are missing anything; Scrapper generally trades some DPS with some PVP function that is generally not that useful in PVE.

I'm in the same boat. I tried Scrapper and felt limited by my skill selection and only weapon being melee. I switched back to a core "Elixir Bomber" build (see Metabattle) with a rifle, and I'm much happier with the simple yet flexible style of it; buff myself to Jesus with elixirs while "meleeing" with the bomb kit, and if I feel the need for range I have my rifle. Like the OP, I'm wondering what I'm missing...

Maybe the style isn't for you. Scrapper is more bunker/PvP styled, so that may not bring that much to PvE content where most people just go full power.

Granted, I always loved my flamethrower, so I always played around with that. Since condition builds allow one to be tanky, I eventually found a build that works for me. The gyros for healing, reduced damage and condition cleanse really keep me going for a long time, and the strong barriers I get when reviving others means I am pretty immortal during difficult open world moments (and thus I avoid the many deaths that would result otherwise nearby, like when fighting the experiment chamber bosses). Since my dual pistol + flamethrower build works mostly around bursts, I don't even lose that much DPS when I focus on reviving others while my skills are off CD.

The elite gyro is highly situational, but it's a literal life saver when you need it. I still wish detonating gyros would count as a blast finisher so I could get some more mileage of this gyro in boss encounters, though.

so, I would say that scrapper at least works for me, even if played in a different way than intended. :P

Thanks for the thoughtful feedback. Great community.

I guess, you need to like the playstlye enough first. I love hammer on scrapper and I find core engi with bombs or grenades utterly boring. Hammer, like you said has decent damage, has reflection on low CD which can significantly increase your dps in certain encounters, has evade, has block with barrier and has aoe CC. It's a great utility weapons with decent damage. The most useful one among gyros is obviously bulwark gyro, which reduces inc damage for party by 33% and for utility you get protective shield against projectiles, which is awesome. Elite gyro finds it's uses as well when you need to stealth for longer period. And medic gyro is also not bad, I quite like it. It also gives you pretty decent utility (pulsing protection+water field. Scrapper also has some cool traits. All grandmaster traits are pretty nice. Adaptive armor will make you tanky as hell, very good if you're soloing some hard bosses. When you don't need that extra protection, then you can swap to applied force and have nearly perma quickness if you run elixir build and use Elixir U for utility. Haven't tried "kinetic stabilizers" trait though, but also looks pretty decent.

Scrapper wasn't designed with PvE in mind. It was designed for PvP primarily. Just look at function gyro, which is clearly at its most useful in competitive game modes. Many of the traits and skills are explicitly designed with PvP constraints in mind.

However, some scrappy (pun time) people have created a healing/support build from it, but it's definitely not the intended playstyle for the spec.

Speaking of Function Gyro ... does it work in PVE? I've never seen the skill box pop up ... maybe I'm doing something wrong or out of range? Not sure, but I would sure like to know if it's me or the game.

@Obtena.7952 said:Speaking of Function Gyro ... does it work in PVE? I've never seen the skill box pop up ... maybe I'm doing something wrong or out of range? Not sure, but I would sure like to know if it's me or the game.

It does, however you must select the downed player before you can send the gyro, this is why you almost never see it in use, it's too bothersome. If only it had a context skill or the like it'd be much better for open world at least.

@Vagrant.7206 said:Scrapper wasn't designed with PvE in mind. It was designed for PvP primarily.

Well, there's the problem in a nutshell. No class or elite spec should ever be designed for just one mode of the game. Only some people PVP, but EVERYONE has to PVE sometime.

@Jimbru.6014 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Scrapper wasn't designed with PvE in mind. It was designed for PvP primarily.

Part of that is the devs fault for not following up though. Spellbreaker was also a PvP-oriented spec at first too (lots of warriors complaining about it in PvE). But the devs did actually follow up on spellbreaker and improved its usefulness in PvE. Scrapper was never given that same treatment.

Scrapper is fun, to be honest I play my engineer because of it :) ! I love hammer playstyle on it! Is so different and it fits it so good!

But yes, in general I find hard to get a decent build that I can enjoy and fits my playstyle.

I don't like to take kits because I don't like them in general I find them pretty messy because for me is hard to dominate their rotation correctly! But there are ppl that use them pretty well actually!

Besides, I'm that kind of player that loves to take turrets :3 mines and elixirs! :D

I get pretty upset everytime it is ignored on patch notes :( ... Is taking so long and honestly it feels like a bit forgotten from the Devs by now.

But I still hope that gyros will become really fun on day with a good dedication on reworking them, turrets aswell! ;)

I cry a lot on forums hoping for a day that it will be it's turn to have a proper work from ANET! :) hihi

So let's us not lose hope! :)

This class has a lot of gamestyles to explore, would be awesome to see old stuff beeing usefully again aswell

@Jimbru.6014 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:Scrapper wasn't designed with PvE in mind. It was designed for PvP primarily.

I wouldn't go that far. Other than Function Gyro and Decisive Renown, Scrapper looks just like any other traitline you might use for PVE. If it wasn't for the very limited application of those two elements, Scrapper wouldn't look like an exception to PVE. In otherwords, Scrapper isn't that far from any other espec that is used to good effect in PVE.

I like the CC of the hammer, but their profession mechanic and the Gyros feel lacking.

I'd like them to have the F5 elite toolbelt skill replaced with a second profession mechanic gyro. An Action Gyro as a counterpart to the Function Gyro.

The Action Gyro would have ammo and gain up to 3 charges, but it would have no passive ammo recharge. Instead, it would gain charges based on the engineer's actions and what happens to them.The method to gain charges and the effects of the Action Gyro would change depending on which Grandmaster major trait was selected.

I mentioned it before a few times:

• https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/202701/#Comment_202701
• https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/627831/#Comment_627831
• https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/705898#Comment_705898

As for the Gyros, I would prefer if they were less squishy and more meaningfull. For example, there could be a new 'damage staggering' like how they added barrier, and the gyros and many summons and AI companions would get it, either by default or from traits.
Damage staggering would not reduce damage, but it would delay it, ensuring that AI like the gyros that tend to be squishy would last at least enough to have some effect.

So a gyro that would usually last 6s, but won't last even half a second under heavy fire could get a damage staggering effect that would keep it alive for up to 3 second by not being able to receive more than 33% of its max HP per second.

Controversially, they're best played as support in PvE.

They offer decent CC, strong damage resistance to the party (Bulwark Gyro+lots of Protection), provide a small amount of healing but with that much defense its alot more than it seems like, and they also have some water fields, reflects, Stability, and turrets provide various buffs and perhaps their biggest stength is basically making the party immune to conditions while buffing them at the same time.

I mean, sure, they're no Druid, but they're far from the worst PvE subclass, and very workable.

I'm not sure what use they have in open world, since thats mostly damage-oriented. Mine does okay there too, but she's on Celestial, as a holdover from back when Engineers were good with that stat set. But on DPS gear.. ? I'm not sure how that would go, Holo would do better.

It depends on what you're trying to do, really.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jimbru.6014 said:

@"Vagrant.7206" said:Scrapper wasn't designed with PvE in mind. It was designed for PvP primarily.

You can look at the other skills and traits too for evidence that Scrapper was intended for PvP:

• Hammer skills are focused on blocking, reflecting, evading, and CC, but have a low overall damage comparable to other engineer primary weapons. The weapon design is great for balanced PvP engagements, but relatively limited in PvE engagements due to the low damage that all engineer primary weapons have.
• Medic Gyro is an ok heal, and its toolbelt is decent protection + water field, but nothing that makes it stand out against Healing Turret.
• Blast Gyro has good knockback CC which is most useful in PvP, and only useful as a breakbar in PvE. It's the worst thing you can use against trash mobs, because you want those clumped up. Additionally, its pathing is garbage, and PvE has the most irregular surfaces.
• Bulwark gyro is useful in all game modes, but its health pool is clearly tuned for PvP. When using it on a support scrapper, it dies FAST if your team is taking decent damage. It should benefit from the stats of the user more.
• Purge gyro is primarily useful as a cleanse for the user, and cleansing isn't as necessary in PvE. Its "booping" mechanic is just bad in any scenario.
• Shredder gyro is just bad in all modes.
• Sneak Gyro's stealth is best utilized in competitive game modes, but there are niche uses in PvE. I use it in Fractals to skip past trash mobs or activate the lever on Underground.
• The traits dealing with superspeed are largely irrelevant to PvE play, with very niche uses such as guild missions.

Not sure I was clear. I too believe it was intended for PVP, I just don't think that makes it just designed for PVP. If it was JUST designed for PVP, it would be even more PVP oriented than it actually is. I believe Anet knows better than to push any specific spec that far down the spectrum for a game mode. I think if it was more PVP oriented, then it would be THE PVP spec that everyone would use.

@Hannelore.8153 said:I mean, sure, they're no Druid, but they're far from the worst PvE subclass, and very workable.

If druid didn't have spirits and 10 man easy high might generation, there would be no druid in PvE.

before the last scrapper balance which gutted gyros and electric fields on gyro death and such, was one of my fav classes. Now its clunky annoying boring gamestyle.

Anet balances keep destroying stuff completely instead of fixing/making more fun.

Scrapper lacks damage-modifying traits and high damage utility skills to be played as dps in pve, unlike holosmith with 15% damage bonus, laser disk and prime light beam. The damage on hammer isn't terrible, but with traits and gyros that focus on mostly defense, it's hard to justify playing it in pve, because killing mobs faster is way better than tanking them. It doesn't help when Anet decides to gradually change scrapper into a mediocre healing/support spec when pve support is all about chrono and druid. The best thing about scrapper is skipping mobs with sneak gyro, but honestly thieves and mesmers can do the same, if not better.

Scrapper is similar to spellbreaker in that it's designed for pvp and it shouldn't be balanced around its state in pve. I really hope Anet buffs pvp scrapper so that it's able to compete with other pvp specs, some of which also meta in pve (mirage aka the most imba class ever).