Can we have a shapeshifter for the next expansion? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Can we have a shapeshifter for the next expansion?

TrepidPT.4327TrepidPT.4327 Member
edited June 2, 2019 in Professions

I have been thinking on this and I have mechanics in my head and everything :p

Like the same way mages can change from water, to fire etc (F1,F2...) I would love to see that but for a shapeshifter...
So you press F1 and get the wolf transformation, your weapon bar changes from whatever weapon you had, and it becomes the beast weapons. The same if you turn to other animal, now the utility skills could be working in the same way as the glyphs for the druid, in a way that if you have the animal glyphs when u are in your human form, the skills will do something different as if you were in one of the beast forms and if you are as a wolf, for example, the glyphs would be different from the bear form as well. So you could have 10 different skills for each form! =)
And if you had other skill but the glyphs for the shapeshifter (ex: Healing Spring) it would bring you back to your human form and cast it there. Now some ranger skills could maybe used in some forms, like "Strength of the Pack".

I don't know how hard it would be to do a class like this, I imagine it would be impressively hard, but in my opinion so it would to play with it!!
What you guys think?

Comments

  • EmmetOtter.8542EmmetOtter.8542 Member ✭✭✭
    edited June 2, 2019

    It would be even cooler if each race looked different when shapeshifted.

    For example, if you could shapeshift into a cat with stealth abilities
    1. Humans would transform into a panther
    2. Norn would transform into Lions
    3. Sylvari into pumas
    4. Asura into kittens (or maybe a lynx or bobcat)
    5. Charr ... they're already cats (ok maybe Bengal tigers)

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There wont be coming out anynew classes, and this seems too much for just an espec

  • Maybe just a new class then?

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TrepidPT.4327 said:
    Maybe just a new class then?

    There wont be coming out a new class.

    They made rev, because there were only 2 heavy classes, while light and medium armor had 3 classes. Now each armortype has 3 classes.
    I believe they specifically said some time ago, that there will never coming out conpletely new classes, just new especcs.

    Also, balancing right now is already a nightmare, an entire new class wouldnt help that at all.

    Go play norn, they can transform into different animals

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @TrepidPT.4327 said:
    Maybe just a new class then?

    There wont be coming out a new class.

    They made rev, because there were only 2 heavy classes, while light and medium armor had 3 classes. Now each armortype has 3 classes.
    I believe they specifically said some time ago, that there will never coming out conpletely new classes, just new especcs.

    Also, balancing right now is already a nightmare, an entire new class wouldnt help that at all.

    Go play norn, they can transform into different animals

    No RPG should so so committed to perfect symmetry between armor weight classes. Its goofy.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @TrepidPT.4327 said:
    Maybe just a new class then?

    There wont be coming out a new class.

    They made rev, because there were only 2 heavy classes, while light and medium armor had 3 classes. Now each armortype has 3 classes.
    I believe they specifically said some time ago, that there will never coming out conpletely new classes, just new especcs.

    Also, balancing right now is already a nightmare, an entire new class wouldnt help that at all.

    Go play norn, they can transform into different animals

    No RPG should so so committed to perfect symmetry between armor weight classes. Its goofy.

    Well with ascended armor being interchangeable between classes of the same armortype it makes sense

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @TrepidPT.4327 said:
    Maybe just a new class then?

    There wont be coming out a new class.

    They made rev, because there were only 2 heavy classes, while light and medium armor had 3 classes. Now each armortype has 3 classes.
    I believe they specifically said some time ago, that there will never coming out conpletely new classes, just new especcs.

    Also, balancing right now is already a nightmare, an entire new class wouldnt help that at all.

    Go play norn, they can transform into different animals

    Except the norn shapeshifting sucks, as norn main why would you even waste the skill slot with such trash? Either make it cosmetic for the norn, or scrap it and make a class/elite spec out of it. I too would love a shapeshifter and they said they would "Never do mounts" and here we are so I doubt a new class is off the table. Besides mounts can't be a selling point next expansion so its either a new race or a new class and a class can be monetized a hell of alot easier. (Plus in reality it might be less work, who knows perhaps. )

    Plus it could be a good throw-back to dervish who in of itself could shapeshift; A havroun who is a norn-ish class would be fun. Plus shapeshifting and being one with the spirits of the wild can be taught to anyone so the class wouldn't break too much lore. Frankly it would be interesting as it would be another stance changer but could be a medium armor stance dancer ( a mechanic not on medium armor, ranger doesn't count.) So rev-light mechanics where you leap in and out of beast form to do different functions could be cool; Especially with a combat engine like guild wars 2.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @TrepidPT.4327 said:
    Maybe just a new class then?

    There wont be coming out a new class.

    They made rev, because there were only 2 heavy classes, while light and medium armor had 3 classes. Now each armortype has 3 classes.
    I believe they specifically said some time ago, that there will never coming out conpletely new classes, just new especcs.

    Also, balancing right now is already a nightmare, an entire new class wouldnt help that at all.

    Go play norn, they can transform into different animals

    Except the norn shapeshifting sucks, as norn main why would you even waste the skill slot with such trash? Either make it cosmetic for the norn, or scrap it and make a class/elite spec out of it. I too would love a shapeshifter and they said they would "Never do mounts" and here we are so I doubt a new class is off the table. Besides mounts can't be a selling point next expansion so its either a new race or a new class and a class can be monetized a hell of alot easier. (Plus in reality it might be less work, who knows perhaps. )

    Plus it could be a good throw-back to dervish who in of itself could shapeshift; A havroun who is a norn-ish class would be fun. Plus shapeshifting and being one with the spirits of the wild can be taught to anyone so the class wouldn't break too much lore. Frankly it would be interesting as it would be another stance changer but could be a medium armor stance dancer ( a mechanic not on medium armor, ranger doesn't count.) So rev-light mechanics where you leap in and out of beast form to do different functions could be cool; Especially with a combat engine like guild wars 2.

    The norn raceskill was a joke, i know they are trash.

    Oh sure, make it a medium armor class, now you have a horde of ppl that main light and heavy armor classes, and have legy and ascened armor for those, but not for medium, demanding a class aswell, or atleast be pissed af.

    Medium armor gear would be alot more valuable, because you can now use it on 4 different classes instead of 3.

    It would make waaay too much work to design a complete new class, with 2 especs, new animations, etc.

    Also balance would be even more terrible

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    so just ele but with more visual clutter

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    @derd.6413 said:
    so just ele but with more visual clutter

    Ele but with ranger core lines aka a better ele.

    Pull the strings. Watch them dance.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I always wonder why people always want shapeshifting things when we all know by experience that it's going to be cluncky as hell just like the racial transformations. If it's just a cosmetic fetish, ask ANet's commecial team to develop a werewolf/werebear/werequaggan outfits that they will resell via the black lion chest lottery. For everything else there is already the tonics, soulbeast and the awful racial transformations.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I always wonder why people always want shapeshifting things when we all know by experience that it's going to be cluncky as hell just like the racial transformations. If it's just a cosmetic fetish, ask ANet's commecial team to develop a werewolf/werebear/werequaggan outfits that they will resell via the black lion chest lottery. For everything else there is already the tonics, soulbeast and the awful racial transformations.

    I mean I wonder why people ask for kitten trash, but they do. > @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @TrepidPT.4327 said:
    Maybe just a new class then?

    There wont be coming out a new class.

    They made rev, because there were only 2 heavy classes, while light and medium armor had 3 classes. Now each armortype has 3 classes.
    I believe they specifically said some time ago, that there will never coming out conpletely new classes, just new especcs.

    Also, balancing right now is already a nightmare, an entire new class wouldnt help that at all.

    Go play norn, they can transform into different animals

    Except the norn shapeshifting sucks, as norn main why would you even waste the skill slot with such trash? Either make it cosmetic for the norn, or scrap it and make a class/elite spec out of it. I too would love a shapeshifter and they said they would "Never do mounts" and here we are so I doubt a new class is off the table. Besides mounts can't be a selling point next expansion so its either a new race or a new class and a class can be monetized a hell of alot easier. (Plus in reality it might be less work, who knows perhaps. )

    Plus it could be a good throw-back to dervish who in of itself could shapeshift; A havroun who is a norn-ish class would be fun. Plus shapeshifting and being one with the spirits of the wild can be taught to anyone so the class wouldn't break too much lore. Frankly it would be interesting as it would be another stance changer but could be a medium armor stance dancer ( a mechanic not on medium armor, ranger doesn't count.) So rev-light mechanics where you leap in and out of beast form to do different functions could be cool; Especially with a combat engine like guild wars 2.

    The norn raceskill was a joke, i know they are trash.

    Oh sure, make it a medium armor class, now you have a horde of ppl that main light and heavy armor classes, and have legy and ascened armor for those, but not for medium, demanding a class aswell, or atleast be pissed af.

    Medium armor gear would be alot more valuable, because you can now use it on 4 different classes instead of 3.

    It would make waaay too much work to design a complete new class, with 2 especs, new animations, etc.

    Also balance would be even more terrible

    Too much work? Tell me how mounts aren't too much work, models, animations, skills, balancing them in the open world. Balance is already a joke, PvP and WvW is in shambles and no one bats an eye anymore because we know it won't get any better. So just give us new stuff and stop trying to balance a game when clearly they don't know how; It's fine balancing issues happen in every mmo-rpg. The rule of cool is what A-net seems to love going with, this follows the rule of cool Now I will say Id prefer a new race over a class because this could be an elite spec.

    Revenant: Svanir ~ you are a werebear whenever you have this trait-line equipped and legends make it corrupt in different ways as madness consumes you. Svanir you become The nornbear, Shiro for example makes you get covered in jade. There you go a shapeshifter with cosmetic oof; Done deal and it works for the lore and makes sense with everything intact. They butchered the norn and they are literally trash compared to how they were in Guild wars 1, meanwhile humans, Sylvary, charr ect all have cool stuff while we get to sit in the corner.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Norn are already shapeshifters.

    Granted the racial skills are mostly gimmicks but they exist in the lore already.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I always wonder why people always want shapeshifting things when we all know by experience that it's going to be cluncky as hell just like the racial transformations. If it's just a cosmetic fetish, ask ANet's commecial team to develop a werewolf/werebear/werequaggan outfits that they will resell via the black lion chest lottery. For everything else there is already the tonics, soulbeast and the awful racial transformations.

    I mean I wonder why people ask for kitten trash, but they do. > @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @TrepidPT.4327 said:
    Maybe just a new class then?

    There wont be coming out a new class.

    They made rev, because there were only 2 heavy classes, while light and medium armor had 3 classes. Now each armortype has 3 classes.
    I believe they specifically said some time ago, that there will never coming out conpletely new classes, just new especcs.

    Also, balancing right now is already a nightmare, an entire new class wouldnt help that at all.

    Go play norn, they can transform into different animals

    Except the norn shapeshifting sucks, as norn main why would you even waste the skill slot with such trash? Either make it cosmetic for the norn, or scrap it and make a class/elite spec out of it. I too would love a shapeshifter and they said they would "Never do mounts" and here we are so I doubt a new class is off the table. Besides mounts can't be a selling point next expansion so its either a new race or a new class and a class can be monetized a hell of alot easier. (Plus in reality it might be less work, who knows perhaps. )

    Plus it could be a good throw-back to dervish who in of itself could shapeshift; A havroun who is a norn-ish class would be fun. Plus shapeshifting and being one with the spirits of the wild can be taught to anyone so the class wouldn't break too much lore. Frankly it would be interesting as it would be another stance changer but could be a medium armor stance dancer ( a mechanic not on medium armor, ranger doesn't count.) So rev-light mechanics where you leap in and out of beast form to do different functions could be cool; Especially with a combat engine like guild wars 2.

    The norn raceskill was a joke, i know they are trash.

    Oh sure, make it a medium armor class, now you have a horde of ppl that main light and heavy armor classes, and have legy and ascened armor for those, but not for medium, demanding a class aswell, or atleast be pissed af.

    Medium armor gear would be alot more valuable, because you can now use it on 4 different classes instead of 3.

    It would make waaay too much work to design a complete new class, with 2 especs, new animations, etc.

    Also balance would be even more terrible

    Too much work? Tell me how mounts aren't too much work, models, animations, skills, balancing them in the open world. Balance is already a joke, PvP and WvW is in shambles and no one bats an eye anymore because we know it won't get any better. So just give us new stuff and stop trying to balance a game when clearly they don't know how; It's fine balancing issues happen in every mmo-rpg. The rule of cool is what A-net seems to love going with, this follows the rule of cool Now I will say Id prefer a new race over a class because this could be an elite spec.

    Revenant: Svanir ~ you are a werebear whenever you have this trait-line equipped and legends make it corrupt in different ways as madness consumes you. Svanir you become The nornbear, Shiro for example makes you get covered in jade. There you go a shapeshifter with cosmetic oof; Done deal and it works for the lore and makes sense with everything intact. They butchered the norn and they are literally trash compared to how they were in Guild wars 1, meanwhile humans, Sylvary, charr ect all have cool stuff while we get to sit in the corner.

    Are you seriously comparing creating a new class and creating mounts? Oh boi... I see, there is nothing left to say.

    If you dont see the difference, there is no point in arguing with you

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I always wonder why people always want shapeshifting things when we all know by experience that it's going to be cluncky as hell just like the racial transformations. If it's just a cosmetic fetish, ask ANet's commecial team to develop a werewolf/werebear/werequaggan outfits that they will resell via the black lion chest lottery. For everything else there is already the tonics, soulbeast and the awful racial transformations.

    I mean I wonder why people ask for kitten trash, but they do. > @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @TrepidPT.4327 said:
    Maybe just a new class then?

    There wont be coming out a new class.

    They made rev, because there were only 2 heavy classes, while light and medium armor had 3 classes. Now each armortype has 3 classes.
    I believe they specifically said some time ago, that there will never coming out conpletely new classes, just new especcs.

    Also, balancing right now is already a nightmare, an entire new class wouldnt help that at all.

    Go play norn, they can transform into different animals

    Except the norn shapeshifting sucks, as norn main why would you even waste the skill slot with such trash? Either make it cosmetic for the norn, or scrap it and make a class/elite spec out of it. I too would love a shapeshifter and they said they would "Never do mounts" and here we are so I doubt a new class is off the table. Besides mounts can't be a selling point next expansion so its either a new race or a new class and a class can be monetized a hell of alot easier. (Plus in reality it might be less work, who knows perhaps. )

    Plus it could be a good throw-back to dervish who in of itself could shapeshift; A havroun who is a norn-ish class would be fun. Plus shapeshifting and being one with the spirits of the wild can be taught to anyone so the class wouldn't break too much lore. Frankly it would be interesting as it would be another stance changer but could be a medium armor stance dancer ( a mechanic not on medium armor, ranger doesn't count.) So rev-light mechanics where you leap in and out of beast form to do different functions could be cool; Especially with a combat engine like guild wars 2.

    The norn raceskill was a joke, i know they are trash.

    Oh sure, make it a medium armor class, now you have a horde of ppl that main light and heavy armor classes, and have legy and ascened armor for those, but not for medium, demanding a class aswell, or atleast be pissed af.

    Medium armor gear would be alot more valuable, because you can now use it on 4 different classes instead of 3.

    It would make waaay too much work to design a complete new class, with 2 especs, new animations, etc.

    Also balance would be even more terrible

    Too much work? Tell me how mounts aren't too much work, models, animations, skills, balancing them in the open world. Balance is already a joke, PvP and WvW is in shambles and no one bats an eye anymore because we know it won't get any better. So just give us new stuff and stop trying to balance a game when clearly they don't know how; It's fine balancing issues happen in every mmo-rpg. The rule of cool is what A-net seems to love going with, this follows the rule of cool Now I will say Id prefer a new race over a class because this could be an elite spec.

    Revenant: Svanir ~ you are a werebear whenever you have this trait-line equipped and legends make it corrupt in different ways as madness consumes you. Svanir you become The nornbear, Shiro for example makes you get covered in jade. There you go a shapeshifter with cosmetic oof; Done deal and it works for the lore and makes sense with everything intact. They butchered the norn and they are literally trash compared to how they were in Guild wars 1, meanwhile humans, Sylvary, charr ect all have cool stuff while we get to sit in the corner.

    Are you seriously comparing creating a new class and creating mounts? Oh boi... I see, there is nothing left to say.

    If you dont see the difference, there is no point in arguing with you

    No What Im saying is that they said it would never happen; And yet here they are? Cosmetics are all guild wars 2 is about at end game, new races are litterally all about that as are classes. You want this game to succeed hope they decide to do something big next expansion or watch how little it manages to rake in, im one of a very vocal majority who aren't impressed by mounts or specs for selling points anymore. I mean mounts come out left and right in living world; And there is not much ground to cover outside of underwater mounts. So using them for an expansion seller a second time around? Nah. Those elite specs might be nice but using them as a selling point on their own, or even without masteries or something else? Nope.

    Content is content, just because you dislike the idea and are opposed on all sides to it doesn't mean its a bad one for monetization and sales. New classes bring in money and new players just as new races do; And they are alot easier to sell than say mounts which are in every game and are nothing special. (That is what most everyone said when I was trying to hype them up to my friends who don't play.)

  • I really like the thematic idea of having a shapeshifter profession/elite spec, but I think gameplay-wise this sounds too similar to Elementalist - or perhaps like a cross between Ele and Necro (since the form seems to work a bit like Death Shroud). What the OP describes is actually pretty much what I expected Revenant to be like when I first heard a description of it - although obviously not with a wolf form. I expected that they would literally transform into Jalis, Shiro, etc. (Probably just as well I was wrong!)

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Except the norn shapeshifting sucks, as norn main why would you even waste the skill slot with such trash? Either make it cosmetic for the norn, or scrap it and make a class/elite spec out of it.

    In hindsight I think they should have made shapeshifting purely cosmetic and an integral part of a norn character's appearance: have you design your shapeshifted form as well as your humanoid form in character creation, and have norn players shapeshift whenever they enter combat.

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I always wonder why people always want shapeshifting things when we all know by experience that it's going to be cluncky as hell just like the racial transformations.

    Ever played GW1 as a Dervish with the Avatar elite skills? That's not at all clunky. Various other RPGs have non-clunky shapeshifting as well. I agree that shapeshifting/form changes in GW2 are clunky though (except Desert Shroud/Harbinger Shroud, if you count that).

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:
    I really like the thematic idea of having a shapeshifter profession/elite spec, but I think gameplay-wise this sounds too similar to Elementalist - or perhaps like a cross between Ele and Necro (since the form seems to work a bit like Death Shroud). What the OP describes is actually pretty much what I expected Revenant to be like when I first heard a description of it - although obviously not with a wolf form. I expected that they would literally transform into Jalis, Shiro, etc. (Probably just as well I was wrong!)

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    Except the norn shapeshifting sucks, as norn main why would you even waste the skill slot with such trash? Either make it cosmetic for the norn, or scrap it and make a class/elite spec out of it.

    In hindsight I think they should have made shapeshifting purely cosmetic and an integral part of a norn character's appearance: have you design your shapeshifted form as well as your humanoid form in character creation, and have norn players shapeshift whenever they enter combat.

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I always wonder why people always want shapeshifting things when we all know by experience that it's going to be cluncky as hell just like the racial transformations.

    Ever played GW1 as a Dervish with the Avatar elite skills? That's not at all clunky. Various other RPGs have non-clunky shapeshifting as well. I agree that shapeshifting/form changes in GW2 are clunky though (except Desert Shroud/Harbinger Shroud, if you count that).

    I agree the norn should of just had that cosmetic thing going for them, maybe one day. As it stands now they aren't really liked because people don't understand them or see what we saw in guild wars 1.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I always wonder why people always want shapeshifting things when we all know by experience that it's going to be cluncky as hell just like the racial transformations.

    Ever played GW1 as a Dervish with the Avatar elite skills? That's not at all clunky. Various other RPGs have non-clunky shapeshifting as well. I agree that shapeshifting/form changes in GW2 are clunky though (except Desert Shroud/Harbinger Shroud, if you count that).

    Sure I did and I recall perfectly that using avatar in GW1 didn't change your skillset. It more or less allowed you to gain "additionnal" effects based on the skills you used you could say that it was equivalent to a soulbeast traited. The point is that dervich's avatars are humanoids form and to be honnest we probably already have all those avatar in the form of outfits. It's better if we don't end up with temporary "outfits" with awful skillsets attached (aka transformations or gw2's shapeshifting).

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2019

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @TrepidPT.4327 said:
    Maybe just a new class then?

    There wont be coming out a new class.

    They made rev, because there were only 2 heavy classes, while light and medium armor had 3 classes. Now each armortype has 3 classes.
    I believe they specifically said some time ago, that there will never coming out conpletely new classes, just new especcs.

    Also, balancing right now is already a nightmare, an entire new class wouldnt help that at all.

    Go play norn, they can transform into different animals

    No RPG should so so committed to perfect symmetry between armor weight classes. Its goofy.

    Well with ascended armor being interchangeable between classes of the same armortype it makes sense

    Ascended and Legendary Weapons and Weapon Crafting are already ridiculously lopsided. Seriously just compare how many ascended weapon types Weaponsmithing (8) opens up for you compared to Huntsman (7) and Artificing (4!! lol).

    Anyway, like I said no other RPGs really take the idea of perfect symmetry between weight classes seriously. Guild Wars 2 does have plenty of room for new classes that Elite Specializations can't completely cover. And the idea of "Oh with the third heavy there's no more room" is just kind of funny and nonsensical. There could be 6 light armor, 4 medium armor, and 2 heavy armor and things could still be perfectly fine as long as the class design and class fantasy are fine. While I don't think Arenanet will add new classes, it is just a matter of them having the will to add new classes. Which they don't at the moment. But nothing is truly off the table.

    Unfortunately for the OP, shapeshifter is one of the least likely. As Soulbeast has the function of changing your abilities to become more animalistic, and Revenant just in general is the Guild Wars 2 shapeshifter, in function even if not in form. The gameplay niche isn't there even if there is a hole for the class fantasy. I think you are WAY more likely to lobby them to make Soulbeast gain physical animal traits beyond the green aura than to get a true shapeshifter profession from them.

    The Psychomancer: Mesmer Elite Specialization Suggestion

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    After the problems Necro has/had with transforms, I am reluctant to support a plethora of them.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ele with glyph is a "weak" version of this. Shame they put the main one glyph of elemental power on an relay counterproductive ammo system.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I always wonder why people always want shapeshifting things when we all know by experience that it's going to be cluncky as hell just like the racial transformations.

    Ever played GW1 as a Dervish with the Avatar elite skills? That's not at all clunky. Various other RPGs have non-clunky shapeshifting as well. I agree that shapeshifting/form changes in GW2 are clunky though (except Desert Shroud/Harbinger Shroud, if you count that).

    Sure I did and I recall perfectly that using avatar in GW1 didn't change your skillset. It more or less allowed you to gain "additionnal" effects based on the skills you used

    Yes, exactly, the Dervish avatar forms interacted with the rest of your build, rather than making it disappear! That's precisely why they weren't clunky!

    you could say that it was equivalent to a soulbeast traited.

    You'll have to elaborate on that - I don't see any similarity between Soulbeast traits and Dervish avatars.

    The point is that dervich's avatars are humanoids form and to be honnest we probably already have all those avatar in the form of outfits.

    We do have all but Avatar of Melandru as outfits, but I don't see why that's relevant - no one in this thread is proposing bringing back Dervish as far as I can tell.

    It's better if we don't end up with temporary "outfits" with awful skillsets attached (aka transformations or gw2's shapeshifting).

    I agree with that, I don't really want any new forms of the type we already have - but I don't think that's the only way to do a shapeshifter.

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Ele with glyph is a "weak" version of this. Shame they put the main one glyph of elemental power on an relay counterproductive ammo system.

    I'm confused - Glyph of Elemental Power doesn't use the ammo system! And in what sense is it "the main one"?

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 6, 2019

    @Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    you could say that it was equivalent to a soulbeast traited.

    You'll have to elaborate on that - I don't see any similarity between Soulbeast traits and Dervish avatars.

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Ele with glyph is a "weak" version of this. Shame they put the main one glyph of elemental power on an relay counterproductive ammo system.

    I'm confused - Glyph of Elemental Power doesn't use the ammo system! And in what sense is it "the main one"?

    Let's elaborate then (I'm keeping Jski comment because it's relevant).

    In GW1, dervich's avatar allow you to temporarily gain stats and/or procs on a specific action. I'm saying it's similar to the soulbeast traited because, when merged the soulbeast gain both stat and access to procs (on hit or on specific skill use) dependant on how you traited and the kind of pet you merge with. It can also simply be liken to the necromancer's shroud for the same reasons. In short those are custom made avatars, necromancer being given a "cool" skin change while soulbeast is given the freedom of skill choice.

    In the case of glyph of elemental power, quoted from Jski, the glyph give access to a limited amount of "on hit" effect based on the attunment you're in. Which is probably it's definition of the counterproductive ammo system (if I'm not wrong arcane power traited have a similar effect). I'd liken this more to thief's venoms with an elementalist's twist thought. In gw1 term it would be closer to a ritualist weapon enchantment in my opinion. You could also say for the elementalist that each attunment is a kind of "avatar".

  • @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    you could say that it was equivalent to a soulbeast traited.

    You'll have to elaborate on that - I don't see any similarity between Soulbeast traits and Dervish avatars.

    @Jski.6180 said:
    Ele with glyph is a "weak" version of this. Shame they put the main one glyph of elemental power on an relay counterproductive ammo system.

    I'm confused - Glyph of Elemental Power doesn't use the ammo system! And in what sense is it "the main one"?

    Let's elaborate then (I'm keeping Jski comment because it's relevant).

    In GW1, dervich's avatar allow you to temporarily gain stats and/or procs on a specific action. I'm saying it's similar to the soulbeast traited because, when merged the soulbeast gain both stat and access to procs (on hit or on specific skill use) dependant on how you traited and the kind of pet you merge with. It can also simply be liken to the necromancer's shroud for the same reasons. In short those are custom made avatars, necromancer being given a "cool" skin change while soulbeast is given the freedom of skill choice.

    Ah, ok, thanks for the explanation! Except... looking at the Soulbeast traits, there don't seem to be any procs in Beastmode that are dependent on traits. The only trait of the form "When in Beastmode, if you do X, then it triggers effect Y" is Eternal Bond, which has an effect when you're downed. (Disclaimer: I'm not very familiar with Soulbeast so I'm just reading the traits off the wiki - it's highly probably there's something I've missed.)

    In the case of glyph of elemental power, quoted from Jski, the glyph give access to a limited amount of "on hit" effect based on the attunment you're in. Which is probably it's definition of the counterproductive ammo system (if I'm not wrong arcane power traited have a similar effect). I'd liken this more to thief's venoms with an elementalist's twist thought. In gw1 term it would be closer to a ritualist weapon enchantment in my opinion. You could also say for the elementalist that each attunment is a kind of "avatar".

    Ah, I see, that makes sense now. I actually prefer that functionality to the older versions, and yes Arcane Power is similar.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @TrepidPT.4327 said:
    Maybe just a new class then?

    There wont be coming out a new class.

    They made rev, because there were only 2 heavy classes, while light and medium armor had 3 classes. Now each armortype has 3 classes.
    I believe they specifically said some time ago, that there will never coming out conpletely new classes, just new especcs.

    Also, balancing right now is already a nightmare, an entire new class wouldnt help that at all.

    Go play norn, they can transform into different animals

    No RPG should so so committed to perfect symmetry between armor weight classes. Its goofy.

    Well with ascended armor being interchangeable between classes of the same armortype it makes sense

    Ascended and Legendary Weapons and Weapon Crafting are already ridiculously lopsided. Seriously just compare how many ascended weapon types Weaponsmithing (8) opens up for you compared to Huntsman (7) and Artificing (4!! lol).

    Anyway, like I said no other RPGs really take the idea of perfect symmetry between weight classes seriously. Guild Wars 2 does have plenty of room for new classes that Elite Specializations can't completely cover. And the idea of "Oh with the third heavy there's no more room" is just kind of funny and nonsensical. There could be 6 light armor, 4 medium armor, and 2 heavy armor and things could still be perfectly fine as long as the class design and class fantasy are fine. While I don't think Arenanet will add new classes, it is just a matter of them having the will to add new classes. Which they don't at the moment. But nothing is truly off the table.

    Unfortunately for the OP, shapeshifter is one of the least likely. As Soulbeast has the function of changing your abilities to become more animalistic, and Revenant just in general is the Guild Wars 2 shapeshifter, in function even if not in form. The gameplay niche isn't there even if there is a hole for the class fantasy. I think you are WAY more likely to lobby them to make Soulbeast gain physical animal traits beyond the green aura than to get a true shapeshifter profession from them.

    How do the craftsman things play into account? It doesnt matter, you can learn those on any character, you could even learn all of them on one character.

    I have like 6 heavy ascended sets and a legendary heavy, 1 medium and 2 light ascended sets.

    Thats because i usually play heavy classes.
    If they brought out anew heavy class id be settled with gear, id just need to level the class up with tomes.
    Now i have 4 for every aspect of the game geared classes, while others only have 3 ready when they played more Light armors for example. How does that seem fair to you?

    Also, still the balancing issues remain, more classes mean more work with balancing and alot more room for failure at that.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 6, 2019

    @Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:
    Ah, ok, thanks for the explanation! Except... looking at the Soulbeast traits, there don't seem to be any procs in Beastmode that are dependent on traits. The only trait of the form "When in Beastmode, if you do X, then it triggers effect Y" is Eternal Bond, which has an effect when you're downed. (Disclaimer: I'm not very familiar with Soulbeast so I'm just reading the traits off the wiki - it's highly probably there's something I've missed.)

    There is several traits in core that say:
    "Using a beast ability do [insert whatever effect]"

    Those are your proc, just like dervich's avatars had:
    "removing a dervich enchantment do [insert whatever effect]"

  • @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:
    Ah, ok, thanks for the explanation! Except... looking at the Soulbeast traits, there don't seem to be any procs in Beastmode that are dependent on traits. The only trait of the form "When in Beastmode, if you do X, then it triggers effect Y" is Eternal Bond, which has an effect when you're downed. (Disclaimer: I'm not very familiar with Soulbeast so I'm just reading the traits off the wiki - it's highly probably there's something I've missed.)

    There is several traits in core that say:
    "Using a beast ability do [insert whatever effect]"

    Those are your proc, just like dervich's avatars had:
    "removing a dervich enchantment do [insert whatever effect]"

    Ok, I see what you're getting at now (finally!). I wasn't including those traits because Beast abilities are useable outside of Beastmode - Beastmode changes how you trigger those traits, but it doesn't grant access to them.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭

    @TrepidPT.4327 said:
    I have been thinking on this and I have mechanics in my head and everything :p

    Like the same way mages can change from water, to fire etc (F1,F2...) I would love to see that but for a shapeshifter...
    So you press F1 and get the wolf transformation, your weapon bar changes from whatever weapon you had, and it becomes the beast weapons. The same if you turn to other animal, now the utility skills could be working in the same way as the glyphs for the druid, in a way that if you have the animal glyphs when u are in your human form, the skills will do something different as if you were in one of the beast forms and if you are as a wolf, for example, the glyphs would be different from the bear form as well. So you could have 10 different skills for each form! =)
    And if you had other skill but the glyphs for the shapeshifter (ex: Healing Spring) it would bring you back to your human form and cast it there. Now some ranger skills could maybe used in some forms, like "Strength of the Pack".

    I don't know how hard it would be to do a class like this, I imagine it would be impressively hard, but in my opinion so it would to play with it!!
    What you guys think?

    Big missed opportunity here, for both revenant and soulbeast. The revenant mechanic should have transformed you into the legend you're channeling, kinda like Death Shroud, and the soulbeast mechanic should have turned you into an animal, kinda like WoW druids do.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No plz no.

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