Stop with the PUG life, you're doing it wrong — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Stop with the PUG life, you're doing it wrong

I see people all the time complaining about toxicity/elitism/general jerkiness in the "raiding/fractal playerbase".
The thing is, PUGs are that way by nature. There's nothing that can or needs to be done about that. I've played WoW for years(late vanilla-pandaria) and raided most of that time. As many of you know, WoW endgame has a much stronger focus of raiding/group instanced content. Since the dawn of time PUGs have been cancer or something you do only once you got the content on total farm mode(hence the absurd requirements). For most of my days in WoW , PUG raiding was pure mockery, if you raided - you do it with a guild or your mates. In GW2 however, I see people that are completely surprised by the nature of PUGs and place blame all around except the right places. I believe the reason for this is simply that almost no content in GW2 nodges people towards communication. People expect to do raiding and fractals the same way they do open world group events and don't bother communicating with others( a crazy idea, communication in a MP game???).

I suggest to anyone who is still in the pug life scene to just stop. You will discover a whole new game.
Some easy and obvious beginner tips:
1. Join a Guild! Find a guild with shared interests and communicate with them. You will find that any boss/fractal doesn't need "meta" comps. Simply following the mechanics and concentrating on the actual fight will get you there.
2. Use your friend list! Say you encounter a decent player from anywhere who isnt in your guild, communicate and add them to your friend list. Next time you can contact him straight away and you got a competent party member!
3. Focus on mechanics over DPS, always. You can't do DPS if you are dead. I can't tell you how many times I've seen players who dont communicate and die from simple mechanics because they were in tunnel vision mode on their rotation and personal DPS. In fact, the difference between a really complex optimal rotation and an easier one is usually less than 20 percent. Always follow common sense and focus on fight mechanics. If you're raiding, focus on learning fight mechanics and don't tunnel vision the perfect rotation.

If you just abandon the PuG life you will find yourself having a blast in raiding/fractals.

Comments

  • Thank you for this post, I honestly dont understand the people who complain about it too on this game. Any other game it's the same if you dont pull your weight you get shamed . Hence preparing for it beforehand or trainings are required so you get the mechanics down covered THEN you can start improving dps.

    The only thing is that gw2 never reaches players to get better at playing their class and proper rotations cos the open world can be cleared with auto attacks. Heck even fractals unless cm doesnt need you to do proper rotations and play meta builds.

    Yes it's common sense there will be elitism in end game content (in any game) and there is nothing or should be nothing done about it but I also think anet did a bad job at teaching players progression of difficulty; it jumps from zerg auto attack facetank all damage to miss one mechanic and your whole group wipes

  • From my experience most people in PvE always have little to no awareness of the situation and are quick to point fingers if something is not going too well, yet refuse to adjust builds or take advice because "ive been doing T4/CM for some time so i already know everything".

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:
    The only thing is that gw2 never reaches players to get better at playing their class and proper rotations cos the open world can be cleared with auto attacks. Heck even fractals unless cm doesnt need you to do proper rotations and play meta builds.

    More like GW2 design is such that the game is inherently incapable of teaching players anything about all that stuff. If you want to learn, you either need to put a ton of work into researching it yourself (hint: even most hardcore players are incapable of that), or you have to use out-of-game, third party resources.

    Yes it's common sense there will be elitism in end game content (in any game) and there is nothing or should be nothing done about it but I also think anet did a bad job at teaching players progression of difficulty;

    Again, having "progression of difficulty" doesn't matter, if the game is incapable of teacthing players to follow that diffiulty curve. All the "stairway to raids" can do is to make devs notice at which difficulty levels what percentage of players give up. Actually changing those percentages, though, can't really be done that way.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:
    The only thing is that gw2 never reaches players to get better at playing their class and proper rotations cos the open world can be cleared with auto attacks. Heck even fractals unless cm doesnt need you to do proper rotations and play meta builds.

    More like GW2 design is such that the game is inherently incapable of teaching players anything about all that stuff. If you want to learn, you either need to put a ton of work into researching it yourself (hint: even most hardcore players are incapable of that), or you have to use out-of-game, third party resources.

    Yes it's common sense there will be elitism in end game content (in any game) and there is nothing or should be nothing done about it but I also think anet did a bad job at teaching players progression of difficulty;

    Again, having "progression of difficulty" doesn't matter, if the game is incapable of teacthing players to follow that diffiulty curve. All the "stairway to raids" can do is to make devs notice at which difficulty levels what percentage of players give up. Actually changing those percentages, though, can't really be done that way.

    I think not, if gw2 teaches players breakbar mechanics right from the start and make aoes and enemy skills more punishing them players would learn to cc and dodge right from the start.
    Dodging only starts to shine from HoT and cc bar I bet a whole lot of open world pve players dont know what it is or what to do.

    If that can be implemented earlier on in the game it will atleast teach players half the raiding content because after all; raid rule #1 don't die...

  • I won't disagree about raids, but honestly, I'd place T4 fractals at roughly the same level as WoW heroic dungeons (at least up to when I stopped playing in Cataclysm), and most T4 instances are probably easier than that. Yet, I've had a lower success rate in fractals than I ever had in heriocs.

    Part of this seems due to roles not being delineated as clearly in GW2 as WoW (is anyone a healer?), possibly because the original direction of GW2 was not to have roles. Distinct but related is that fractals are the threshold where mindless stack-and-smash tactics without regard for mechanics don't always work.

    Paradoxically, the better the individuals in the group are (both due to skill and group composition, since 5-man class balance is abysmal), the more likely they can still get away with it. In the opposite extreme, the super chill/casual groups that are up-front about being casual (but can pay attention to mechanics) generally succeed. Sadly, the bulk of the bell curve falls in the middle ground where people want to ignore mechanics but can't heal/DPS well enough to do so, so they fall apart after a few wipes.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:
    The only thing is that gw2 never reaches players to get better at playing their class and proper rotations cos the open world can be cleared with auto attacks. Heck even fractals unless cm doesnt need you to do proper rotations and play meta builds.

    More like GW2 design is such that the game is inherently incapable of teaching players anything about all that stuff. If you want to learn, you either need to put a ton of work into researching it yourself (hint: even most hardcore players are incapable of that), or you have to use out-of-game, third party resources.

    Yes it's common sense there will be elitism in end game content (in any game) and there is nothing or should be nothing done about it but I also think anet did a bad job at teaching players progression of difficulty;

    Again, having "progression of difficulty" doesn't matter, if the game is incapable of teacthing players to follow that diffiulty curve. All the "stairway to raids" can do is to make devs notice at which difficulty levels what percentage of players give up. Actually changing those percentages, though, can't really be done that way.

    I think not, if gw2 teaches players breakbar mechanics right from the start and make aoes and enemy skills more punishing them players would learn to cc and dodge right from the start.

    Yes, breakbar mechanics and dodging can possibly be taught. We were talking about class mechanics and rotations however, and those things for the most part just are beyond this game's ability to explain. Especially good builds and rotations are not something that can be taught ingame, because game doesn't even know what they are. Devs would have to constantly follow the meta and adjust all the teaching content on the fly, according to both the meta, and the individual player skill (because some players should not learn full meta builds and rotations they won;t be able to execute well, but go for simplified ones that would do just fine in their hands). That's not something that can be realistically expected.

    Dodging only starts to shine from HoT and cc bar I bet a whole lot of open world pve players dont know what it is or what to do.

    If that can be implemented earlier on in the game it will atleast teach players half the raiding content because after all; raid rule #1 don't die...

    But raid rule #2: "dps the kitten out of it" is as important. If the damage dealers will do around 4k dps, and support won't be able to upkeep boons, the group will still wipe 99/100 even when doing mechanics perfectly. If you add to that healers on the same level, even that 1% chance of survival will be gone.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nah pugging is fun. U can dps race on rene with simply Any1. Always enjoyable

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Also tbf, static MAY be worse than pugs. U can flame/teach/leave pug group, any Time u want, u cant rly do the same in static if they suck, making u stuck playing with bad PPL. For example there is a Group of Old friends and 1 of them is significantly underperforming. Who Will tell him to "git good, or kick" ? Noone, u Will be stuck with him untill Group disbands

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Zok.4956Zok.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:
    The only thing is that gw2 never reaches players to get better at playing their class and proper rotations cos the open world can be cleared with auto attacks. Heck even fractals unless cm doesnt need you to do proper rotations and play meta builds.

    More like GW2 design is such that the game is inherently incapable of teaching players anything about all that stuff. If you want to learn, you either need to put a ton of work into researching it yourself (hint: even most hardcore players are incapable of that), or you have to use out-of-game, third party resources.

    Yes it's common sense there will be elitism in end game content (in any game) and there is nothing or should be nothing done about it but I also think anet did a bad job at teaching players progression of difficulty;

    Again, having "progression of difficulty" doesn't matter, if the game is incapable of teacthing players to follow that diffiulty curve. All the "stairway to raids" can do is to make devs notice at which difficulty levels what percentage of players give up. Actually changing those percentages, though, can't really be done that way.

    I think not, if gw2 teaches players breakbar mechanics right from the start and make aoes and enemy skills more punishing them players would learn to cc and dodge right from the start.

    Yes, breakbar mechanics and dodging can possibly be taught. We were talking about class mechanics and rotations however, and those things for the most part just are beyond this game's ability to explain. Especially good builds and rotations are not something that can be taught ingame, because game doesn't even know what they are.

    The class mechanics, rotations, skills, synergies, gear stats, etc. are also too complicated to understand for the devs themselves. The devs can not even write internal simulations and tests to predict the outcome when they make changes. Thats why they make "balance changes" on the live servers and let the players aka guinea pigs sort it out for them.

    Devs would have to constantly follow the meta and adjust all the teaching content on the fly, according to both the meta, and the individual player skill

    If devs would understand their own gw2-skill-system, they could predict the new metas. ;)

    https://www.gw2gh.com/ - A GW2-Guild-Hall.
    Register and check your guild leaderboard to see who is the best in your guild and who finished achievements first.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2020

    @Safandula.8723 said:
    Also tbf, static MAY be worse than pugs. U can flame/teach/leave pug group, any Time u want, u cant rly do the same in static if they suck, making u stuck playing with bad PPL. For example there is a Group of Old friends and 1 of them is significantly underperforming. Who Will tell him to "git good, or kick" ? Noone, u Will be stuck with him untill Group disbands

    I would and so would every1 else from my static. that even happened once already, not a big deal. Afterall idea of static is to gather same skill lvl players.

    You can also leave static aswell if they suck and look for new one that better suits your needs.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2020

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:
    I would and so would every1 else from my static. that even happened once already, not a big deal. Afterall idea of static is to gather same skill lvl players.

    And that's one of the reasons why i don't raid anymore. For me, the main idea of playing in a group is to play with the people i find fun playing with. When that idea clashes with the game mechanics, when the game puts some other requirement above this one, that's when the game stops being fun.

    Just as i mentioned in my sig, the whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:
    I would and so would every1 else from my static. that even happened once already, not a big deal. Afterall idea of static is to gather same skill lvl players.

    And that's one of the reasons why i don't raid anymore. For me, the main idea of playing in a group is to play with the people i find fun playing with. When that idea clashes with the game mechanics, when the game puts some other requirement above this one, that's when the game stops being fun.

    Just as i mentioned in my sig, the whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

    I'm my former static I played with people I wanted to play with even if some where worse and some where better then me.

    You can just play with people you like as long as those people enjoy doing raids.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2020

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:
    I would and so would every1 else from my static. that even happened once already, not a big deal. Afterall idea of static is to gather same skill lvl players.

    And that's one of the reasons why i don't raid anymore. For me, the main idea of playing in a group is to play with the people i find fun playing with. When that idea clashes with the game mechanics, when the game puts some other requirement above this one, that's when the game stops being fun.

    Just as i mentioned in my sig, the whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

    I'm my former static I played with people I wanted to play with even if some where worse and some where better then me.

    You can just play with people you like as long as those people enjoy doing raids.

    This is basically saying "you can raid with people you like, as long as you can raid with them" (because, let's be honest, liking a content is locked behindbeing good enough to do that content), which, while undoubtely true, changes exactly nothing about what i said before.
    That "as long as" qualifier is actually a very restrictive one.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:
    I would and so would every1 else from my static. that even happened once already, not a big deal. Afterall idea of static is to gather same skill lvl players.

    And that's one of the reasons why i don't raid anymore. For me, the main idea of playing in a group is to play with the people i find fun playing with. When that idea clashes with the game mechanics, when the game puts some other requirement above this one, that's when the game stops being fun.

    Just as i mentioned in my sig, the whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

    I'm my former static I played with people I wanted to play with even if some where worse and some where better then me.

    You can just play with people you like as long as those people enjoy doing raids.

    This is basically saying "you can raid with people you like, as long as you can raid with them" (because, let's be honest, liking a content is locked behindbeing good enough to do that content), which, while undoubtely true, changes exactly nothing about what i said before.
    That "as long as" qualifier is actually a very restrictive one.

    We'll the as long as qualifier is one which is normally placed for all content so I could have left it out anyway.

    BTW you don't need to be able to complete content to be able to enjoy it. You can enjoy pvp and suck at it. You can enjoy raids and be bad at it.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2020

    @yann.1946 said:
    BTW you don't need to be able to complete content to be able to enjoy it. You can enjoy pvp and suck at it. You can enjoy raids and be bad at it.

    Right. And if you are in a static, and are the weak link and the usual reason why the static can't clear a boss, i am sure all your friends are going to like it as well.[/sarcasm]
    Seriously, I haven't seen a single group so far that would actually like constantly wiping over and over again on the bosses. Every group that won't get over that phase fast enough ("fast enough" being very relative, depending on the person in question, of course) eventually either gives up on the content or fractures.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2020

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @yann.1946 said:
    BTW you don't need to be able to complete content to be able to enjoy it. You can enjoy pvp and suck at it. You can enjoy raids and be bad at it.

    Right. And if you are in a static, and are the weak link and the usual reason why the static can't clear a boss, i am sure all your friends are going to like it as well.[/sarcasm]
    Seriously, I haven't seen a single group so far that would actually like constantly wiping over and over again on the bosses. Every group that won't get over that phase fast enough ("fast enough" being very relative, depending on the person in question, of course) eventually either gives up on the content or fractures.

    If you are the reason your static can't clear its more of a static problem then a you problem though. And don't forget that in this premise the people involved actually wanna play together. I mean the same can be said about open world if somebody isn't as fast as the other players for example.

    I've met people for which killing the boss was merely secondary. As an example, a few weeks ago i did a strike with a person i hadn't seen in a while. The group we joined was quite bad so we wiped for between 1-2hours. Eventually we killed it but the kill wasn't that relevant for the fun we had. even if we didn't had the kill we would have walked away with a positive experience because the strike was secondary.

    Its about having a friendgroup in which this works. If you want to play with the people you find fun, you can do that as long as those people enter with the same intention.

    On top of that, if this is not content your friends enjoy thats not a problem. then you just find a different piece of content to play together.

    edit: the core point here is having a friendpool which doesn't mind wiping.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2020

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:
    I would and so would every1 else from my static. that even happened once already, not a big deal. Afterall idea of static is to gather same skill lvl players.

    And that's one of the reasons why i don't raid anymore. For me, the main idea of playing in a group is to play with the people i find fun playing with. When that idea clashes with the game mechanics, when the game puts some other requirement above this one, that's when the game stops being fun.

    Just as i mentioned in my sig, the whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

    Some ppl find it fun to play with players with similar skill lvl. Or enjoy advanced tactics or monday FC speed runs.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    on the flip side don't expect pugs to have optimal dps or even know the mechanics. you get what you get.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2020

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:
    I would and so would every1 else from my static. that even happened once already, not a big deal. Afterall idea of static is to gather same skill lvl players.

    And that's one of the reasons why i don't raid anymore. For me, the main idea of playing in a group is to play with the people i find fun playing with. When that idea clashes with the game mechanics, when the game puts some other requirement above this one, that's when the game stops being fun.

    Just as i mentioned in my sig, the whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

    Some ppl find it fun to play with players with similar skill lvl. Or enjoy advanced tactics or monday FC speed runs.

    Sure, i can understand that. I just find that approach to friendship to be way too utilitarian and pragmatic for my taste. Ultimately, I want to play with my friends - and I don't want to grade my friends according to their skill level. When you put skill level first, however, the other group members stop being you friends. They become tools that are there to supply you with fun. I don't really like that kind of approach.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:
    I would and so would every1 else from my static. that even happened once already, not a big deal. Afterall idea of static is to gather same skill lvl players.

    And that's one of the reasons why i don't raid anymore. For me, the main idea of playing in a group is to play with the people i find fun playing with. When that idea clashes with the game mechanics, when the game puts some other requirement above this one, that's when the game stops being fun.

    Just as i mentioned in my sig, the whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

    Some ppl find it fun to play with players with similar skill lvl. Or enjoy advanced tactics or monday FC speed runs.

    Sure, i can understand that. I just find that approach to friendship to be way too utilitarian and pragmatic for my taste. Ultimately, I want to play with my friends - and I don't want to grade my friends according to their skill level. When you put skill level first, however, the other group members stop being you friends. They become tools that are there to supply you with fun. I don't really like that kind of approach.

    Multiple statics works for me on this proplem. Once I have cleared everything on monday I spend rest of the week to help my few other statics that are made from old friends or in general from ppl that I like to play.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2020

    Introduce your friends to one another.