Engineer dissecting (rants)

[Angel.3916]

Hey guys, i was wondering there are any power builds that can be used outside holo kit.

Right now i feel like rifle and hammer are too defensive, and rifle is very controlling in combat, while hammer feels like a defensive weapon.

I was looking for other power builds that don't relay on holosmith kit build. I haven't checked meta battle, but i am hoping i have options.

Right now i switch between zerker stat gear for pvE and a mix set of armor for WvW. I think holosmith is good but a bit boring, as well as not functionally effective at killing tanky targets very well (maybe the damage is nerfed in WvW but i also find in PvE holosmith damage is decent but not impressive)

So i was testing a pistols condi build and it seems ok for bosses and champions, but useless for veterans and basic mobs.

I feel like engineer has too many defensive traitlines, and not enough damage or offensive traits. I mean we have alchemy, tools, scrapper, and inventions, which all are utility or defensive. And explosive is power, holo is holo smith damage, and fire arms is condi. This class feels too defensive, and not many build options for damage outside holosmith. Any body have any recommendations or builds i can try for extra damage ? or maybe just a different way of doing damage besides holo kit.

[Yasai.3549]

That's because yu are totally disregarding the existence of things like Grenade Kit, Bomb Kit, Mortar Kit.Especially Grenade Kit, which seems to be the go to kit to use together with Explosives traitline.

So yu can play Scrapper for example, use Hammer for defensive while still dropping damage on the boss, then swap to Grenade kit to throw more bombs, then swap back and continue with Hammer.

[Taril.8619]

Are there any power builds that aren't Holo Kit?

Yes.

Are they any good?

Not really.

Holosmith just provides the most damage due to Holoforge being a really strong "Kit" to swap to.

Outside of Holoforge, most of your damage will come from Grenade Kit (Shrapnel Grenade + Poison Grenade) and in PvE Bomb Kit (Auto attacks)This is also the case for Condi builds too (You'll also use Fire Bomb and Concussion Bomb from Bomb Kit. You'll also use Flamethrower too)

Even meme builds like kitless Static Discharge builds, just end up working better in Holosmith because of Holoforge (Also Photon Wall for the low CD toolbelt skill)

At best, there's the meme Juggernaut Scrapper build for power DPS, where you use the Juggernaut trait in Firearms and sit with Flamethrower out to stack Might and proc Applied Force on cooldown (Bearing in mind, that the only skill on Flamethrower that has relevant power scaling is the auto attack. So it's a pretty passive build). You could probably make it more viable by having Grenade Kit to swap to and get some Explosives value.

[Angel.3916]

Hey guys. So i been studying the engineer skills quite a bit. As well as the traits.

Yea holosmith provides the best damage for engineer. Scrapper is more tanky and supporting, and alchemy is pretty nice boon power.

I been testing new builds and i am liking the meta battle solo world build of scrapper with boon support and marauder gear. I like the might stacking and crit from firearms, makes for a well rounded heavy melee bruiser.

I guess holosmith is the engineer's option for pure heavy damage, while everything else is more supporting.

I cant see explosives being a good dps traitline as you don't stay in bomb or grenade kit as a pure weapon kit, but as part of disposable rotation set up. Makes "specializing" in a bomb or grenade kit pretty useless.

Honestly, i feel like holosmith is the best dps in raids / fractals / and in most PvP. But their support and utility is a bit lacking.(as holosmith)

I am "re-falling" in love with my engineer because i am more focus on a support specialists and jack of all trades over a pure dps. I think holosmith could be pretty lonely as a pure dps, if you're not in a raid zerg or WvW zerg. Do people really take holosmith pure dps .....for damage in pvE and pvP ?

Engineer has a lot of utility and support skills. Yea.. it makes them defensive, and supporting. My point is - i guess for engineer, the only "damage option choices" is holosmith, while everything else is more supporting, utility, control, or some kind of tanky defense.

Thanks for giving me ideas and feedback about holosmith. Both of you made me think hard.

I guess engineer is strong, but strong at very specific things. And engineer damage option is holosmith.

[White Kitsunee.4620]

I can confirm that explosive scrapper dps is pretty good in PvP.(Its alot better in arena tho)

[Taril.8619]

@"Angel.3916" said:I cant see explosives being a good dps traitline as you don't stay in bomb or grenade kit as a pure weapon kit, but as part of disposable rotation set up. Makes "specializing" in a bomb or grenade kit pretty useless.

Explosives is a pretty good DPS traitline.

The only DPS related aspect of Explosives that actually specifically requires use of Explosives are the Ferocity stacks you gain from Explosive Temper (Of course there's also Steel-Packed Powder, but in PvE where DPS matters Vuln stacks are irrelevant due to so many people passively applying Vuln with various skills)

Since Grenade Kit uses multiple grenades per skill, it builds the stacks very quickly. For PvE, you'll auto attack with Bomb Kit as filler as is is the strongest auto attack available. For PvP/WvW, you don't really use Explosive Temper and instead favour the extra survivability from Blast Shield.

Meaning that Explosives specialization consists of 7% raw damage increase from Glass Cannon, 200 Ferocity from (Easily maintained even when cycling kits) Explosive Temper, 12.5% raw damage increase from Shaped Charge (Given 25 stacks of Vuln is guaranteed in PvE with multiple people present) and 10% raw damage increase from Big Boomer (As the negligable healing is the only aspect tied to Explosive usage)

[Infusion.7149]

@"Angel.3916" said:Hey guys. So i been studying the engineer skills quite a bit. As well as the traits.

Yea holosmith provides the best damage for engineer. Scrapper is more tanky and supporting, and alchemy is pretty nice boon power.

I been testing new builds and i am liking the meta battle solo world build of scrapper with boon support and marauder gear. I like the might stacking and crit from firearms, makes for a well rounded heavy melee bruiser.

I guess holosmith is the engineer's option for pure heavy damage, while everything else is more supporting.

I cant see explosives being a good dps traitline as you don't stay in bomb or grenade kit as a pure weapon kit, but as part of disposable rotation set up. Makes "specializing" in a bomb or grenade kit pretty useless.

Honestly, i feel like holosmith is the best dps in raids / fractals / and in most PvP. But their support and utility is a bit lacking.(as holosmith)

I am "re-falling" in love with my engineer because i am more focus on a support specialists and jack of all trades over a pure dps. I think holosmith could be pretty lonely as a pure dps, if you're not in a raid zerg or WvW zerg. Do people really take holosmith pure dps .....for damage in pvE and pvP ?

Engineer has a lot of utility and support skills. Yea.. it makes them defensive, and supporting. My point is - i guess for engineer, the only "damage option choices" is holosmith, while everything else is more supporting, utility, control, or some kind of tanky defense.

Thanks for giving me ideas and feedback about holosmith. Both of you made me think hard.

I guess engineer is strong, but strong at very specific things. And engineer damage option is holosmith.

Explosives has a ferocity bonus from Explosive Temper and a flat damage modifier in Big Boomer. Holo has explosion on corona burst and if you run grenade kit the grenade barrage stacks a bunch of vulnerability which compounds with the 0.5% per stack of vulnerability minor trait (Shaped Charge).

With firearms it's mostly for critical hit chance and No scope (150 ferocity / 10% critical damage). If you're not playing in a group the 2% per condition based damage modifier on Modified Ammunition isn't as strong. Your self-generated conditions would most likely be bleeding + vulnerability, as freeze grenade only has 2s chill on 20 base cooldown / poison grenade has 8s duration on 20 base cooldown.

[Angel.3916]

So i been running mostly spvp builds and romaing wvw builds. I do like explosions for explosive entry, it's so OP and will probably get nerfed soon.

I also been breaking the habit of making support builds. I been trying to go full selfish dps and roamers builds and i don't really use the healing turret anymore.

So far i been having good success and having fun. But i am starting to get a vague idea about how engineer is a "trap" in that even though he is design for support, engineer is best played as a loner solo guy in my opinion. I think it's not good to teach people or con dition them that engineer is a jack of all trades and a support.......i mean .. I guess scrapper healing is alright. I should probably make a new thread sorry for ranting.

Thanks guys for your opinions and knowledge, i been using it and thinking more. Take care.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Angel.3916" said:I think it's not good to teach people or con dition them that engineer is a jack of all trades and a support.......i mean .. I guess scrapper healing is alright.When you have a definitive and zerg required meta support spec it's not just "alright". You say it's best played as a loner solo at the same time. So... uhm.. you're saying it's a jack of all trades?

[Infusion.7149]

@"Angel.3916" said:So i been running mostly spvp builds and romaing wvw builds. I do like explosions for explosive entry, it's so OP and will probably get nerfed soon.

I also been breaking the habit of making support builds. I been trying to go full selfish dps and roamers builds and i don't really use the healing turret anymore.

So far i been having good success and having fun. But i am starting to get a vague idea about how engineer is a "trap" in that even though he is design for support, engineer is best played as a loner solo guy in my opinion. I think it's not good to teach people or con dition them that engineer is a jack of all trades and a support.......i mean .. I guess scrapper healing is alright. I should probably make a new thread sorry for ranting.

Thanks guys for your opinions and knowledge, i been using it and thinking more. Take care.

It's much more than "alright" , scrapper med kit healing exceeds firebrands and tempests when running with heralds and/or Purity of Purpose.

[Angel.3916]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Angel.3916" said:I think it's not good to teach people or con dition them that engineer is a jack of all trades and a support.......i mean .. I guess scrapper healing is alright.When you have a definitive and zerg required meta support spec it's not just "alright". You say it's best played as a loner solo at the same time. So... uhm.. you're saying it's a jack of all trades?

Well... I don't really like to play with others. I can understand that scrapper is a strong support for raids and zergs.

I think that depending on others kind of makes you weaker unless you have a second set of gear.

An example is - you should never use a healing turret to cleanse or heal someone else. Only use it when you need it. Same with stealth and stability.

I learned quickly when I played support and spvp that others are generally unreliable and they don't do enough dps or carry or play skillfully.

I learned that if I am going to support scrapper heal, it better be for consciously top skilled players. I been disappoint many times by supporting people who don't know what they are doing.

In spvp I been learning how engineer skills are so amazing ....for themselves. We got utility, stability, stealth, healing and cleansing and we can do a ton of cc and burst damage.

That may seem "jack of all trades" but I call it more of a strong solo master and duelist.

My point is, you can play engineer helping others, or you can play engineer helping your self. I tend to get disappointed by others, you can call me a toxic elitists it's ok, ...I been using my large tool kit of "jack of all trades" to adapt to other people in pvp and roaming.

My original intent for this thread was if I could find a different PvE rotation for engineer other than holosmith.

Holosmith is the ONLY option for PvE as dps as it does the most damage and has a good fluid rotation. Scrapper is good healer cleanse for PvE and WvW but now... rifle is not a useless weapon. Neither is hammer.

Hammer and rifle are useless in most content but in (pvp) small fights like roaming dueling spvp or small party warfare, rifle and hammer are very powerful. They may not do the best damage that holosmith does, but godly their cc and defensive utility is amazing.

I think engineer is a strange profession. It is good at damage, healing, and small pvp fights.

I think engineer is hard to understand and hard to master. Also engineer is kind of a loner profession. If you join PvE you're mostly damage or healing conditions. In spvp you should never play scrapper or support.

So engineer is the least played profession but I think it's the most OP and terrifying class in the game.

The problem is, most engineers don't play spvp or roaming and those that do don't speak out or post on the forums.I think most engineers are casuals or people who don't play pvp. But healing and dps is not casual, that is pro raider stuff.

I guess what I am trying to say is, engineer is unpopular but it is very powerful only at very specific things and specific niches.

I think other professions have more options in this game than engineer and are easier to play and easier to find groups with.

So hope my thoughts help someone. /end rant.

[Angel.3916]

I also want to say that over 60 engineer skills are split in game modes.

In outdoor PvE the skills feel clunky and weird.

But in PvP and WvW (small fights 6 or less people) the nerfs and splits are actually ..fine. I can hold my own in small fights and I think people don't realize just how STRONG engineer is as a duelist.

They say thief is the perfect 1v1 class in pvp and thief is pretty good but engineer is also very strong. Engineer's skills that are useless in PvE and WvW zergs are shockingly good in Spvp and roaming.

Like plant mine. Useless right ? Useless in group content ( 6 or more people ) but in small fights it's power magnitude makes it very strong.

I could go through 40 somethings skills that seem useless in most of the game but in 1v1 and small scale fighting they are really strong.

Engineer is the 1v1 monster and most of his utility skills are awesome for that. It may not seem apparent but trust me engineer skills are quite strong.

Just...don't expect to be that useful in content with 6 or more people. Engineer loses his power because other classes get so much value out of their skills especially with groups of 10 or more.

Engineer skills are awesome just only in 5 or less groups. And solo is awesome too.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Angel.3916" said:An example is - you should never use a healing turret to cleanse or heal someone else. Only use it when you need it. Same with stealth and stability.Not really true for stealth. Elixir is a strong smallscale utility (ressing, "untarget" low hp friendlies) and the gyro is even stronger and meta in zerging for stealth blasts. Scrapper defense field is also a big source of zerg stability and projectile immunity. Nobody use turret for zerging though, you're right about that.

Can also add that power scrapper is being used in zergs nowadays as well due to high damage while still having some of the skills the support scrapper have.

Yeah, its strong in 1v1. Its also meta in zerging. I have no idea why you are trying to argue against whats meta when you admittedly "dont like to play with others". Your preference doesnt make the engineer weaker or change the meta.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Angel.3916 said:I feel like engineer has too many defensive traitlines, and not enough damage or offensive traits. I mean we have alchemy, tools, scrapper, and inventions, which all are utility or defensive. And explosive is power, holo is holo smith damage, and fire arms is condi. This class feels too defensive, and not many build options for damage outside holosmith. Any body have any recommendations or builds i can try for extra damage ? or maybe just a different way of doing damage besides holo kit.

This is something that's pretty much true for all professions. Every core profession basically has the following setup with their traitlines:

• Two damage-oriented traitlines. Usually this boils down to power versus condition damage, but in some cases you instead get one which is oriented towards flat damage with both power and conditions (the specific traits deciding which it is) while the other is oriented towards critical hits.
• One traitline oriented towards reducing incoming damage.
• One traitline oriented towards healing (often also the traitline most oriented towards removing conditions).
• One traitline oriented towards augmenting the profession's mechanic.

The big distinction is that in many cases, the 'augmenting the profession's mechanic' traitline can also do double duty as a decent damage-oriented traitline, which is largely where engineer falls down in this respect. Tools can technically be made to do this... but doing so pretty much requires going with static discharge builds, and static discharge doesn't work well with most kits (which is usually where engineers get their DPS from).