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Fractal Consumables


knite.1542

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@Jilora.9524 said:

@Jilora.9524 said:Do you honestly think a wooden plank or a rock should do more CC then actual skills. You cause this issues when you start demanding them in lfg which puts the usually oblivious anet to go hey wait these guys aren't passing content in a way we find legit. As always tho elitist tears are always the yummiest

Do you think Pot's and Food should give a much greater damage boost than the majority of Traits? I hear those have been demanded almost universally in LFG too!The Choya tonic also gives a greater speed boost than any skill, trait or boon in the game. Clearly that should be removed too.

Where is the line here, and how dumbed down does the game have to get before the people complaining about everything that makes them have to put in effort and make their own groups is removed before they are happy? And will there still anyone to play with at that point?

Is knowing your rotations, which drastically increases your DPS over randomly pressing buttons, the next "discriminatory" thing after all those which has to be removed by giving everybody just an auto attack or smth?

I'm sure if everyone started writing bring yo Choya's anet might notice. Anet draws the line. And the food and pot comparison is just silly and is diff then requiring me to go buy out a vendor of planks and rocks

So buying and demanding food consumables for a DPS boost is completely different to buying and demanding CC consumables for a CC boost. Got it.

Do they sell effing rocks and planks in the fractal area?

They don't sell food there either.

@Jilora.9524 said:>@Jilora.9524 said:As always tho elitist tears are always the yummiest

Right, once all those "elitist" players who enjoy the game as originally designed and just want to play their way with like minded players, enjoying all the intricacies of the game without harming anyone else since they can just make their own groups, are gone, and only people like you who actively revel in the displeasure and disappointment of others, toxicity truly will have been defeated.

The tears thing was a joke. Only an elitist would get offended so hard tho. Yeah anet put rocks and planks on vendors and they were designed to have 5 guys in their hardest content swinging away on end bosses with the best rewards. It's baffling to me how you think that any of what you just said can't be still accomplished w/o said rocks and planks. Now you are doomed to never play with like minded players again.

Yea, no. I'm not offended, just deeply disappointed with the direction the game has been going for while now since I really enjoyed it, being with the franchise since Prophecies 15+ years ago.And to reiterate, I'm personally not a fan of consumables and outside of things like Artsariiv, where without them you just have to stand around uselessly and wait for cooldowns, rarely used them.I would rather join or make a group not requiring them than one that does, and personally rather just adjust my build to contain more or less CC depending on demand.That doesn't mean that I can't defend them being valuable as option and added depth to the game on principle.

Things is, this isn't just about purely optional CC consumables being removed - which were mostly used and nice to help out less proficient players, carrying CC for them to provide a smooth run, but a general trend Anet has being going down over the last year or two especially, in which we get to see next to no content added to the game, while pretty much every other patch takes things out of the game that people have been using and enjoying for years without issue, for incredibly poorly thought out reasons of increasing accessibility, which pretty much always, predictably, backfired.

The game gets more simplified, less interactive and interesting by the patch, revenue and likely population is continuously dropping, and meanwhile the people who rather complain and want to take toys away from others rather than getting their own and making their own groups and play the way they like, in who's name this is all done, still just do that - forever moving the goalpost in complaining about what "toxic elitist" thing is barring their entry into content that just isn't for them, no matter what steps Anet takes, while overtime destroying the content for those who did actually enjoy and play it regularly or even daily.

Anet is sacrificing the quality and complexity of the game and it's content, and the majority of the palyerbase which actually enjoyed it, for a vocal minority who was, is and never will be actually playing that content at large, and are just using everything hardcore as scapegoat.

Players who complained about Arc Templates and celebrated their removal for Anet's native lacklustre solution at large stated they themselves didn't want or need Templates, ultimately they just didn't want other's to have something they didn't care to get. As a price, many players who relied on and enjoyed proper Templates quit.

Players who complained about KP and celebrated their removal are now that they are gone not going hard on playing Fractals, they just didn't like the idea of it and something not super easily being accessible to them (if they are actually interested in it or not), and just wanted others not to have that option, while moving on to the next thing that apparently locks them out of the content (like doing a 5 minute heart event and buying a consumable CC item). As price, many players who enjoyed and relied on such a group finding tool quit.

Now CC consumables, which were used since years, are gone too - once again taking something away from that content and how it was played and enjoyed by many for years.

Is the world whole now? Is everybody playing Fractals en masse now? Ofc not, there's got to be another thing to complain about next that is apparently keeping people form that content.Anet fails to realise that they can't please everybody. Hardcore content is always going to primarily for more hardcore players. By repeatedly dumbing down the game/content to appeal to those who aren't actually interested in it anyway and just don't like others having their fun that they can't or want to have, they are just gonna be left with dead content appealing to no one eventually.

Well you seem to have a more in depth issue with gw2 as a whole. These changes which anet implemented don't help any newer players or those in t2-t3 and someday working up but it still was silly that 100cm were using items like those and again the spam in lfg probably caused anet to do this. You will be fine or anyone who's does t4 and cms everyday. You just might take longer. Some of you are way under 45m for a full run and the amount of loot for that time is high. Maybe that's the reason for the changes. Idk.

I mostly quit PvE since everybody I played with quit and I'm not satisfied with the amount (or rather lack of) new content and all the little changes like this, chipping away at all the little intricacies that made the content fun for me (from having highly specialised fun builds per encounter with Arc Templates, to fall damage trait skips, to consumables, to group finding, etc.), so I'm personally not really affected by these changes anymore, although they are still a shame to see.

Ofc I would still be completely fine playing the content, it's just progressively less interesting to do so, and I don't really blame all the ex players in old guild Discords just going "welp, I'm glad I already quit" upon seeing all these changes, taking stuff out of the game - rather than adding new stuff and winning players back.

@Jilora.9524 said:It's not that I agree with these last 2 fractal changes it kinda is they both make sense to try and stop this shady cc thing and try and stop players from be excluded from content. Both these changes probably won't help because speed clearers and so called elitists will adjust but pugs will be hurt more.

That's exactly the thing. Long term highly proficient players, especially those part of statics still, aren't really affected. They might quit over time bc the game just keeps getting less interesting, but in terms of being able to clear the content easily, they don't need KP, consumables or anything.These things just used to make the content more fun and interactive and clears faster, but were never necessary.

The ones really being hurt by those changes are those who cry for them and then celebrate them the most. As more hardcore players quit or move into statics the content becomes less and less accessible and lively on the LFG, and I doubt anyone is helped if all that's left there eventually are sellers, and even those players who still are fine with carrying less proficient players on LFG won't have tools like CC consumables to do so anymore, eventually just giving up after repeated wipes which they simply cannot carry over alone anymore by digging deep into these optional systems.

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First they remove KP making it harder to filter out people who don't know how to CC. Then they remove the means of which to carry players who don't know how to CC. Classic Anet.

Heres an idea: how about actually doing a good job of teaching your players how to play so we wouldn't need to carry them with cheese like this

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Basically a "Smiters Boon" solution to a non problem and it's a non problem really. It speeds things up and makes encounters easier rather than tedious with possible wipes. What was that video years ago "I swung a sword oh I swung a sword again", that's basically what this "Smiters Boon" nerf does. I'm sure there will be ways around this with new builds and team set ups but it does add even more restrictions. The consumables were for speed runners and casuals that wanted to ensure success by getting as much damage out there as possible with a mechanic that you implemented Anet, it hasn't been a problem for a long time and suddenly you decide "Wait they're doing things fast and effectively, we need to stop this right now!" I don't partake in Fractals, it's not content I particularly enjoy, nor are raids but that doesn't mean that I like it when raiders and people that do fractals are essentially punished for finding effective ways to do them, you "Smiters Boon" the Ash Legion Kits but I agree with that, because it allowed everyone to skip past content. Speeding up content by damaging defiance bars quicker is not skipping content IMO. I really do believe that this was a wrong decision and it will only make casuals more excluded because when there's an adaptation to change, in my experience there are even stricter rules and pressures placed on each class to perform to the standards that others want. That is not fun play, that is not how I want to play and in fact this creates even more elite elitism. Please revert this or at least compensate by taking a look at the bosses in raids/fractals and dungeons and toning them down only slightly. That's all I have to say.

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I feel that the active fallback attitude on these items was just wrong to be fair. The idea that some groups doing Fractal Challenge Modes had these as requirements going in was... confusing. If players didn't follow Meta Builds so much they would likely be able to execute mechanics with no problems at all (including the Breakbar Mechanic) and still do reasonable amounts of damage but because of this whole "Fast is best" mindset people start to lose track on skills that actually mean something in their class. Let's look at the current "Pug Meta" for example;

  • Renegade (Huge CC)
  • Bannerslave (Huge CC)
  • DPS x2 (Dependant on the class, barely-to-nice amount of CC)
  • Healer (Can bring good CC situationally)

So why would there EVER be a need for Consumables when this setup is already packing HUGE Crowd Control? I'd say that players affected by this need to learn how to play their classes a lot more efficiently other than relying on an un-intended situation.

By the way I do not mean this as an attack on any individual but more of an open statement, after all this affects most Challenge Mode groups now but I'm glad Arena Net took this away.

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@"DanielKingston.3947" said:I feel that the active fallback attitude on these items was just wrong to be fair. The idea that some groups doing Fractal Challenge Modes had these as requirements going in was... confusing. If players didn't follow Meta Builds so much they would likely be able to execute mechanics with no problems at all (including the Breakbar Mechanic) and still do reasonable amounts of damage but because of this whole "Fast is best" mindset people start to lose track on skills that actually mean something in their class. Let's look at the current "Pug Meta" for example;

  • Renegade (Huge CC)
  • Bannerslave (Huge CC)
  • DPS x2 (Dependant on the class, barely-to-nice amount of CC)
  • Healer (Can bring good CC situationally)

So why would there EVER be a need for Consumables when this setup is already packing HUGE Crowd Control? I'd say that players affected by this need to learn how to play their classes a lot more efficiently other than relying on an un-intended situation.

By the way I do not mean this as an attack on any individual but more of an open statement, after all this affects most Challenge Mode groups now but I'm glad Arena Net took this away.

In this case (CM100) it's not about doing it faster, it is about doing it. If you don't have enough cc for the last sorrows phase (each one = 1500 breakbar), you just wipe. Before the patch, we could carry it with cc cons in pug groups, as a lot of players don't seem to know what cc is (especially dps ones).

So yes if player would learn to use cc, it would not be a real issue, but i don't think it will happens with most pugs.

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@DanielKingston.3947 said:So why would there EVER be a need for Consumables when this setup is already packing HUGE Crowd Control? I'd say that players affected by this need to learn how to play their classes a lot more efficiently other than relying on an un-intended situation.

The people who are going out of their way to purchase and use niche consumables to make up for the lack of CC aren't the ones who don't know how to CC. Consumables are there to make up for OTHERS failure to CC, not yours. CC is a group effort, you cannot solo most breakbars unless you spam consumables. You need to convince the people who weren't ccing before to pull their weight, not the ones who were already going out of their way to ensure breakbars.

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This change just screws pugs the most and kills composition diversity even more.

With statics it's not much issue because they can coordinate their skills. From my experience , in pugs, it's mostly impossible.

It kills party variety because now groups will be looking for classes that can bring a lot of cc without much sacrifice.

Also it's amazing how ANet designs content that feels like it had consumables in mind and the just removed them without having a second look at the said content. Insanely high break bar on 100CM? A lot of break bars on Artistrav in 99CM ? How about Mama and her minion Knights?

ANet and TERRIBLE&THOUGHTLESS balance patches. Name more iconic duo.

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@Carcharoth Lucian.1378 said:

@"DanielKingston.3947" said:I feel that the active fallback attitude on these items was just wrong to be fair. The idea that some groups doing Fractal Challenge Modes had these as requirements going in was... confusing. If players didn't follow Meta Builds so much they would likely be able to execute mechanics with no problems at all (including the Breakbar Mechanic) and still do reasonable amounts of damage but because of this whole "Fast is best" mindset people start to lose track on skills that actually mean something in their class. Let's look at the current "Pug Meta" for example;
  • Renegade (Huge CC)
  • Bannerslave (Huge CC)
  • DPS x2 (Dependant on the class, barely-to-nice amount of CC)
  • Healer (Can bring good CC situationally)

So why would there EVER be a need for Consumables when this setup is already packing HUGE Crowd Control? I'd say that players affected by this need to learn how to play their classes a lot more efficiently other than relying on an un-intended situation.

By the way I do not mean this as an attack on any individual but more of an open statement, after all this affects most Challenge Mode groups now but I'm glad Arena Net took this away.

In this case (CM100) it's not about doing it faster, it is about doing it. If you don't have enough cc for the last sorrows phase (each one = 1500 breakbar), you just wipe. Before the patch, we could carry it with cc cons in pug groups, as
a lot
of players don't seem to know what cc is (especially dps ones).

So yes if player would learn to use cc, it would not be a real issue, but i don't think it will happens with most pugs.

Not to mention that in that phase there's a lot of healing pressure, so if I cc as hb inevitably one or more party members are going to down, then the snowball effect begins.

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I think people can be too lazy (yes of course it's a problem) but what a bigger problem is, people who point it out can be quite toxic about it and the more we deny this the more it stays the same. In any case, mentioning someones ability to CC whether it's bad or good encourages better team-work but nowadays it's all about efficiency regardless of 100CM or not it's always been about efficiency. 100CM IS DOABLE with no Consumables. Is 100CM doable with the current Meta Setups? Maybe not. That's down to us, the players who come together to do it, to figure out our builds to ensure it gets done practically instead of figuring out how to zoom through.

People have already been saying it's the "easiest" Challenge Mode, I doubt that this was Arena Nets intention because it's meant to feel like a Challenge Mode so therefore it's going to have challenges where the players have to overcome, I'm actually looking forward to trying out 100CM with no cons and look forward to seeing others do the same because it IS doable.

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@SidewayS.3789 said:If Anet thinks we will accept newbies in CMs, since they don't even know what CC means, its actually the other way around. Imaging being such a clueless company KEK. Now i want some devs from Anet playing 100CM...Oh wait they still click their skills ...

If a player doesn't know how to Crowd Control in 100CM or even in any Tier 4 Fractal, that player just needs a little heads up - not to be shut out because certain players believe it to be a be-all-end-all requirement. It doesn't take much to ensure everybody knows about CC before heading in.

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@nish.5980 said:first they came for the kp, then they came for the cc... it gets more toxic each time. really anet devs, do u even play the game urself? liek serusly?kp still exist. If someone change it - not problem for cm players. It only additional filter don't take in pt someone who have less vision if cms.cc - only one more action only for CCS(mace war). You need puch him more and kick slackers. So game is ok.

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Removing cc cons is more punitive for newbies and low experienced parties than experienced ones. Experienced parties use their cc skills and don't need cons. CC cons where usefull to carry ppl or solo/duo things. So Anet just punish the ppl who already struggle... As usual when they want to prevent "toxicity".

Just rollback the change pls Anet. Don't persist being dumb like every other time.

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