REAL Most Broken Class

[Fantasylife.7981]

Im still waiting for soulbeast, scrapper/holosmith nerfs..

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

I'm honestly genuinely confused by everyone finding scrapper OP. Is it just too tanky for people?It is slightly overtuned in terms of self-sustain (mostly Bulwark/Medic Gyro), but people just hate durable side-noders in general. Instead of learning how to play around them (5v4 the rest of the map, unless you have a really strong +1 to rotate into them), people whinge about not being able to kill it 1v1 or whatever.I personally dont mind the existence of node bunkers as long as there are builds that can either create enough pressure to force them to leave or if the team knows how to deal with the situation.

However, chances are with PUGs in soloQ that neither of the above happens

and they just blame the builds they're against for their loss.

Scrapper requires specific builds to deal with it, or a team that knows how to play (rotate) around it. Those are pretty hard and fast requirements for beating a scrapper team, and they're hardly guaranteed in soloQ. The issue is probably worse in lower tiers.

Or to use the universal reason people give for hating Mirage: It just isn't fun to play against.

[Quadox.7834]

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

I'm honestly genuinely confused by everyone finding scrapper OP. Is it just too tanky for people?It is slightly overtuned in terms of self-sustain (mostly Bulwark/Medic Gyro), but people just hate durable side-noders in general. Instead of learning how to play around them (5v4 the rest of the map, unless you have a really strong +1 to rotate into them), people whinge about not being able to kill it 1v1 or whatever.I personally dont mind the existence of node bunkers as long as there are builds that can either create enough pressure to force them to leave or if the team knows how to deal with the situation. However, chances are with PUGs in soloQ that neither of the above happens and they just blame the builds they're against for their loss.

Or maybe we dislike them because they are unbelievably boring? Infinite 1v1 matchups is just a bad idea.

[Euthymias.7984]

@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

Scrapper requires specific builds to deal with it, or a team that knows how to play (rotate) around it.

Right, because not every build is designed to be capable of pushing into a fight against something bunkering down on a node. That doesnt apply to just Scrapper but -anything- that's doing that particular role in a match.Those are pretty hard and fast requirements for beating a scrapper team, and they're hardly guaranteed in soloQ.It wouldnt be a problem if more people were willing to adjust their builds or strategy among their team to account for a bunker being on a node. Its no different than seeing an FB+Scourge sticking together in a teamfight, and should your team not have any real capacity to teamfight well, realize that out maneuvering them may be a better idea than feeding into that.

Or to use the universal reason people give for hating Mirage: It just isn't fun to play against.Honestly, I never understood why this becomes a mantra for any idea or concept of balance when its such a subjective thing. Who's going to measure what's "fun" and isnt, and by what metric? Is it wrong if someone has "fun" with a bunker's sort of playstyle? It wasnt that long ago when Druid got nerfed to near non-use for the same thing. I'd really rather not see it happen to more builds if it can be avoided.

@Quadox.7834 said:Or maybe we dislike them because they are unbelievably boring? Infinite 1v1 matchups is just a bad idea.

It sure is a good thing that this is Conquest and not Deathmatch. You dont -have- to be 1v1.Now dont get me wrong - I do believe that the current builds could still use some shaving (because some things are a bit too effective at what they do) but I also find some of this stuff brought against them to be kinda ridiculous.

[Quadox.7834]

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

Scrapper requires specific builds to deal with it, or a team that knows how to play (rotate) around it.

Right, because not every build is designed to be capable of pushing into a fight against something bunkering down on a node. That doesnt apply to just Scrapper but -anything- that's doing that particular role in a match.Those are pretty hard and fast requirements for beating a scrapper team, and they're hardly guaranteed in soloQ.It wouldnt be a problem if more people were willing to adjust their builds or strategy among their team to account for a bunker being on a node. Its no different than seeing an FB+Scourge sticking together in a teamfight, and should your team not have any real capacity to teamfight well, realize that out maneuvering them may be a better idea than feeding into that.

Or to use the universal reason people give for hating Mirage: It just isn't fun to play against.Honestly, I never understood why this becomes a mantra for any idea or concept of balance when its such a subjective thing. Who's going to measure what's "fun" and isnt, and by what metric? Is it wrong if someone has "fun" with a bunker's sort of playstyle? It wasnt that long ago when Druid got nerfed to near non-use for the same thing. I'd really rather not see it happen to more builds if it can be avoided.

@Quadox.7834 said:Or maybe we dislike them because they are unbelievably boring? Infinite 1v1 matchups is just a bad idea.

It sure is a good thing that this is Conquest and not Deathmatch. You dont -have- to be 1v1.Now dont get me wrong - I do believe that the current builds could still use some shaving (because some things are a bit too effective at what they do) but I also find some of this stuff brought against them to be kinda ridiculous.

People in past tournaments and ranked matches have literally done rock-paper-scissor to resolve infinite duels before, that kind of gameplay should never even be able to set foot in a pvp game.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

I know it may not have been clear from my previous post, but I was basically agreeing with you. Going further...

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

Scrapper requires specific builds to deal with it, or a team that knows how to play (rotate) around it.

Right, because not every build is designed to be capable of pushing into a fight against something bunkering down on a node. That doesnt apply to just Scrapper but -anything- that's doing that particular role in a match.

I would suggest that Scrapper, much more than any other meta bunker, requires specific builds to defeat it or at least push it off node. I welcome you to discuss how any other meta bunkers are comparable in terms of such requirements though. Honestly, I'm open to learning here.

Those are pretty hard and fast requirements for beating a scrapper team, and they're hardly guaranteed in soloQ.

It wouldnt be a problem if more people were willing to adjust their builds or strategy among their team to account for a bunker being on a node.

Its no different than seeing an FB+Scourge sticking together in a teamfight, and should your team not have any real capacity to teamfight well, realize that out maneuvering them may be a better idea than feeding into that.

Again, I think other current bunkers are more manageable for most people. Unfortunately, when it comes to Scrapper, "people willing to adjust their builds and strategy among their team" is just asking too much for the majority of soloQ, particularly in lower tiers. And lower tier experiences matter both for player retention and because that's where the majority of players are (Gold). Mirage never got any breaks for being a "noob stomper", and neither should Scrapper.

Or to use the universal reason people give for hating Mirage: It just isn't fun to play against.Honestly, I never understood why this becomes a mantra for any idea or concept of balance when its such a subjective thing. Who's going to measure what's "fun" and isnt, and by what metric?

Is it wrong if someone has "fun" with a bunker's sort of playstyle?

It wasnt that long ago when Druid got nerfed to near non-use for the same thing. I'd really rather not see it happen to more builds if it can be avoided.

Tell that to the pitchforks who persecuted condi-Mirage as the most OP/unfun spec in the game for pretty much the past year and counting (it's remained #1 in this poll basically since it was created, and currently leads second-place Scrapper by a solid 6 votes). Is it wrong if someone has "fun" with a trickster's sort of play style?

[mortrialus.3062]

@Euthymias.7984 said:

@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

Scrapper requires specific builds to deal with it, or a team that knows how to play (rotate) around it.

Right, because not every build is designed to be capable of pushing into a fight against something bunkering down on a node. That doesnt apply to just Scrapper but -anything- that's doing that particular role in a match.Those are pretty hard and fast requirements for beating a scrapper team, and they're hardly guaranteed in soloQ.It wouldnt be a problem if more people were willing to adjust their builds or strategy among their team to account for a bunker being on a node. Its no different than seeing an FB+Scourge sticking together in a teamfight, and should your team not have any real capacity to teamfight well, realize that out maneuvering them may be a better idea than feeding into that.

"JuSt OuTrOtAtE tHeM" is the new "Boonbeast beats mirage." or "Just build for more cleanse" when people were defending condition mirage at it's height.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

Scrapper: 15% 32 votesMirage - condition: 19% 41 votes

Since condi-Mirage is clearly the carry spec, would all 41 of you please, in the name of science, play the remainder of the current season with any condi-Mirage build of your choice and report back with where you end up? No? You'd rather stick to your Soulbeasts, Scrappers, Holosmiths, Spellbreakers, and Heralds? Okay then.

[Xstein.2187]

@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:Scrapper: 15% 32 votesMirage - condition: 19% 41 votes

Since condi-Mirage is clearly the carry spec, would all 41 of you please, in the name of science, play the remainder of the current season with any condi-Mirage build of your choice and report back with where you end up? No? You'd rather stick to your Soulbeasts, Scrappers, Holosmiths, Spellbreakers, and Heralds? Okay then.

I'm just gonna quote you to quote you again with something else you said that I think sums up the whole thread pretty nicely.

"Maybe come to grips with the fact that Arenanet designed a profession whose central theme is trickery and evasion, and "move on", whether you like it or not."

AMEN!

[Mini Crinny.6190]

Someone had to pick Other because Ele is really strong, so I did

[Alatar.7364]

@"Xstein.2187" said:I'm just gonna quote you to quote you again with something else you said that I think sums up the whole thread pretty nicely.

"Maybe come to grips with the fact that Arenanet designed a profession whose central theme is trickery and evasion, and "move on", whether you like it or not."

AMEN!

Thief OP now?

[Fantasylife.7981]

You guys thinks Scrapper, Boonbeast will get nerf? like I still run into many of them who just abuse it and can 3v1 with no problem even if they are bad sustain is insanely high and the damage is still there

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@Fantasylife.7981 said:You guys thinks Scrapper, Boonbeast will get nerf? like I still run into many of them who just abuse it and can 3v1 with no problem even if they are bad sustain is insanely high and the damage is still there

Maybe if they're finally done destroying Mesmer. Maybe.

[Adrop.1473]

I think every build is kinda specific unbalanced, but in my opinion Herald is just overtuned... he has TOO much DPS, cleave, evade, block, mobility..

[Elementalist Owner.7802]

Why is there no option for "literally all of them"

[Fantasylife.7981]

yes Mesmer is quite strong

[praqtos.9035]

@Fantasylife.7981 said:yes Mesmer is quite strongStrong at getting hate, on practice ,not anymore :joy:When rev will be nerfed ? To the ground, pls

[Fantasylife.7981]

Not hate, the class can remain very strong for all I care is a wonderful class with unique playstyle, but is quite good at doing everything without even getting touch if played by a really good player. Top mesmer players would agreed they feel very strong and still overturned, and general population would say to remove 8 clones and just make it 3 the class will be better off not having that much spam is only giving people brain aneurysm.

[Solori.6025]

@Fantasylife.7981 said:Not hate, the class can remain very strong for all I care is a wonderful class with unique playstyle, but is quite good at doing everything without even getting touch if played by a really good player. Top mesmer players would agreed they feel very strong and still overturned, and general population would say to remove 8 clones and just make it 3 the class will be better off not having that much spam is only giving people brain aneurysm.

.....Yea that would be a good argument.If the really good mes players were still playing mes ( or the game at all) Currently seems to be missing from the aTs again. I wonder why.

[Nox.6785]

Condi mirage has been glmped since axe nerf I thought

[Catchyfx.5768]

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Fantasylife.7981 said:yes Mesmer is quite strongStrong at getting hate, on practice ,not anymore :joy:When rev will be nerfed ? To the ground, pls

Just take away some dmg and it will be useless.

[BadMed.3846]

@Catchyfx.5768 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Fantasylife.7981 said:yes Mesmer is quite strongStrong at getting hate, on practice ,not anymore :joy:When rev will be nerfed ? To the ground, pls

Just take away some dmg and it will be useless.Fixed:Just take away some dmg and escape mechanics and it will be

useless

balanced.

[mortrialus.3062]

@BadMed.3846 said:

@Catchyfx.5768 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Fantasylife.7981 said:yes Mesmer is quite strongStrong at getting hate, on practice ,not anymore :joy:When rev will be nerfed ? To the ground, pls

Just take away some dmg and it will be useless.Fixed:Just take away some dmg and escape mechanics and it will be

useless

balanced.

Soulbeast has access to a 1200k leap on a 10 second cooldown.

[BadMed.3846]

Confusion stacking is beyond a joke. It must come to an end!

[Solori.6025]

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@BadMed.3846 said:

@Catchyfx.5768 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Fantasylife.7981 said:yes Mesmer is quite strongStrong at getting hate, on practice ,not anymore :joy:When rev will be nerfed ? To the ground, pls

Just take away some dmg and it will be useless.Fixed:Just take away some dmg and escape mechanics and it will be

useless

balanced.

Soulbeast has access to a 1200k leap on a 10 second cooldown.

Soulbeast has some of insane damage as well. Biased players on this forum won't say anything about it though because it's not a mesmer.Warrior as well.Both war and ranger also have low CD escape tools AND defenses.Wonder where the outrage for those are.They seem to be missing like mirage in aT's.