Arken.3725

To compound this, it's kinda fun. I modified my own version of it but all props goes to Sayian here

WB sucks for the following reason: - As a roamer it lacks soft-cc, superspeed or quickness to apply damage as quickly as other roamers

Here's another..lawl https://clips.twitch.tv/RepleteDarlingWhaleTF2John-Qlr9WJK5wIElBCSz

It really only happens to GS on guard. Look at Ranger's GS, Engie's Sword leap and a few others who don't have this issue or to a far lesser degree

Here's another. https://clips.twitch.tv/TangibleFaithfulPotatoCurseLit-igeg8HXbH6DL_O-K

The old Vanguard Tactics Trait was an amazing tool to give WB's mobility. It gave Resistance on port which REALLY helped sticking to people to do damage, especially when you have no soft-cc, superspeed or quickness to make up for it. Not saying it would completely fix the slowness but it would help.

Dude, what are the common themes amongst solid roamer's? Mobility(in the form of not just swiftness, super speed, trackable weaponry, quickness, ect.) Soft-CC: Decent access to ways to stick to someone(Cripple, chill and the like) Massive spike dmg: WB takes a few seconds to actually do dmg, look at other roamers who do it in half the time(Chronomancer, Thief, Rev, and Nade Scrapper) These are just a few problems, there's far more.

Spvp perspective: Guardian has and always only ever been good at support for lengthy periods of time. Core = Support only DH = Meme only and now dead without trapper runes. Was never taken seriously even with said runes. FB = Support only WB = Just plain gone. Was only decent for 3 months maybe? All of this stemmed from terrible weapons, subpar skills(weapons, utilities, healing and elites), slow, low health. Specifics aren't necessary because it doesn't change much. I can't imagine any other profession with worse....pretty much everything such as: - Terribly tracking skills(scepter auto, GS leap, Staff auto, torch throw, ect) - Little-to-no soft cc -Little-to-no actual speed(superspeed, resistance access to help with soft cc) - Symbols being useless and part of every...single.....weapon.... You're effectively giving every weapon only 4 skills since these are only good on a downed body.

Some of us in that discord did suggest (what we thought) healthy changes but obviously it never came to pass. And to reiterate the symbols mechanic: Old Harrier Firebrand was amazing at side noding and this mechanic was incredibly strong in conjunction with it. I voluntarily left because I knew nothing was going to be done.

My suggestion was to change them to something new in its entirety to something more enjoyable than standing in a small circle for many seconds.

Arken here: I suggested a nerf/removal of symbol traits not to make it stronger but to remove(or minimize) a boring mechanic that was strong within the Conquest mode of pvp.

I haven't posted in a while but these changes suck(not in terms of nerfs or buffs). There are still SOO many useless abilities, traits and weapons that these are hilarious. Signets are still terrible. What about overhauling terrible weaponry or utilities or traits? I'd rather they introduce more fun mechanics even if it's weaker. These changes suck lol.

Here's my Arken Spvp feedback: -Most physical skills are still REALLY bad. CD reductions weren't really the problem for most of them. The only decent one is Whirling Light that's still bugged and doesn't hit behind you. -RoF heal still feels VERY weak. Blocking a single attack(not even cc/condition application) just isn't good. It's weaker than Mantra of Solace(when it had aegis) that actually blocks ANY incoming damage/cc/condition dmg. -Willbender Flames are still useless/weaker versions of symbols -Offhand Sword is better but still weaker than Rev Offhand Sword -Most traits are boring/weak(random stat increases for example) -Still no forms of Soft-cc, Quickness or Superspeed. You can still be kited most of the time. Excellent patch in the right direction, though. Keep it up

@McPero.3287 That's the thing, current Guard, even WB relies on active defenses more than most classes(Aegis). There's a trade-off with the new virtue's with landing strikes to gain benefit and as I've stated earlier, you have a way to get to an enemy player but sticking on them is VERY hard given how you still don't have much speed nor plentiful soft-cc. Symbols and WB flames need to be reworked, they're too static and useless outside of a downed body. Dude, no other class has more poorly tracking skills than Guardian. Here, let me name them all. Great Sword #3 and #5 Scepter Auto Staff Auto(lesser extent than scepter) Long Bow(lesser extent than scepter) Torch #4 throw Sword #3 I'm probably missing a few but name any other class that has more than this.

McPero.3287 I'm not suggesting give it a ton of quickness but a little would help. Also, HP is ALWAYS an issue when it comes to damage but I'd rather have more active defenses than some arbitrary hp increase. Static mechanics do not belong on Willbender(symbols and Willbender flames). You still have almost no soft-cc outside of OH Sword 5. No cripple, chill, other forms of immob, ect. Terribly tracking skills are still a huge problem for guardian(Scepter auto for example) It IS better in ranked but again, not nearly good enough.

Willbender is better in spvp but not nearly good enough. It doesn't fix all the underlying issue's such as the following: -Backloaded dmg is still there from symbols -Sustain still a problem. Vitality wasn't the main issue -Still hard to land dmg given you still don't have a lot of soft-cc/superspeed/quickness -Physical skills are still bad -Whirling light still bugged and doesn't hit behind you -Lacks fury -Slightly rework Advancing strike to be half dash and half port vs 90% dash and 10% port currently. -Maybe add 1 condition cleanse to F2 in addition to the movement cleanses.

Small perspective from an old Guard player, symbols in pvp haven't been relevant since the Writ of Persistence nerfs years back. They're a terrible form of dmg outside of a downed body. Heavily outdated and incredibly backloaded.

Love you Mes but I disagree. Keep the passives away, make the actives more powerful.

I agree with pretty much everything stated. It takes A LOT more than what's suggested to help but it would help.

Hey ya'll, I just had a great idea to help make symbols more useful in spvp without an overhaul. Even if this was implemented, I'd still think symbols would need an overhaul but this would help tremendously. Know how skills like Spectral Ring and Temporal Curtain grant boons when you touch them once and never again? Why not do the same for symbols? This would make it far more interactive and wouldn't require you to stand-still for so long. So for example: Symbol of Blades grants 1.5 seconds of fury per pulse of 5 pulses. Just allow it to give 7.5 seconds of fury when you touch it once instead of having to stand-still for so long.

More additions: https://clips.twitch.tv/ImportantBrainyDillFreakinStinkin-6taW3dDjRL_niQnE https://clips.twitch.tv/GrotesqueBumblingPheasantAllenHuhu-0DuTRClogZipZQFM

Thank you @aelska.4609 This thread has the most evidence of terrible tracking on Guardian weaponry. Even with video evidence, this has persisted for so long.

Couldn't agree more

Gotta love it. Here's ANOTHER! https://www.twitch.tv/crusaedir/clip/SmilingWittyChickenResidentSleeper-3PRLeW-nLbr-9-f2?filter=clips&range=30d&sort=time

And another https://clips.twitch.tv/SlipperyImpossibleStapleAllenHuhu-nQ_li83yG1vxvHro