Arken.3725

The idea of it being rebuilt is never going to happen so that argument will never be had. Guardian has NEVER been considered the "blue thief," it doesn't have NEARLY the mobility of thief nor the disengage potential(unless we're talking trapper runes). There's a reason that outside of support core, no other build is even considered in the MOTA, even Trapper DH. It's a pub stomper, that's all. It's a joke build vs other roamers. I know that it's not viable at the absolute top-tier and I'm still calling for trapper runes to be removed. It needs buffs, this is a certain fact. DH was never utilized prior to Trapper Rune utilization.

AFTER the removal of Trapper Runes. As many of you know me, I'm very reasonable on what I think makes Guardian strong/weak and in my humble opinion, DH is only strong due to Trapper runes. If these were to be removed, DH wouldn't see the light of day as a viable specialization and many of you know this is true. There's a reason I pretty much never play dh due to its toxic viability. Let's have a reasonable discussion about this with an objective attitude.

Easily Necro and Holo, it ain't even close. Everything else feels fair by comparison. Obviously dh is a pain but it's carried by trapper runes which should be removed.

Zealot's defense(spvp speaking) is a horribly-tracked skill. You could be within range of an opponent and if they move slightly to the side, many of the projectiles will miss. This all the while not mentioning being stationary(contradicting dynamic play). You could fix this skill by just allowing its use while mobile AND fixing the horrendous tracking.

What? Warrior still has two weapons so it STILL has a weapon swap. Also, Vindicator dodge looks ABSOLUTELY incredible to which there trade-off is very much worth it.

Let me compound this mans argument. I am currently sitting at #4 on the lb for spvp as a Core Power Guardian. Hammer is the worst weapon in the game and like otto mentioned, it needs a complete rework for it to be viable. Even with quickness it feels incredibly slow/clunky.

This man speaks the truth. I've definitely been ragey and a bit of an kitten but being kind is the way to go.

I'll give you that mota isn't the ultimate factor but it's something to get a idea from. All I'm saying is that while it can be a menace while left alone, it's nothing compared to meta builds that reek havoc in a more destructive fashion. Take away trapper runes? I'm all for it. However, there will be less diversity if this happens.

Biased Guardian-main opinion: I'd rather fight a dh than ANY other meta build currently out there (Holo, Necro's, Renegade, ect.), even WITH trapper runes. There's a reason it wasn't in the monthly, it's a joke. I'm also of the mindset that they need to remove trapper runes even if it pushes dh into trash-tier.

Definitely not. If anything, it's still incredibly weak(spvp). Aegis will always be weaker than durational blocks.

Not entirely! One could slightly alter cc to make it more impactful or provide some sort of detriment to the target(s) or benefit to the user. These alone would bring up the score significantly while maintaining the low damage aspect. Example of what you could do: heel crack now affects up to 3 targets and applies quickness to the user for more targets the were cc'ed.

I had an I tested multiple instances on npc's within heart-of-the-mists. All of the attacks were frontal and all were mitigated(0 value) before receiving the larger heal.

If that's truly the case, it will be a terrible heal even if the bugs are fixed. I'll maintain my suggestion that it should be like Full Counter. Edit: I tested it a few times in spvp and it does act like Full Counter. When it did work, it mitigated multiple hits and then granted me the larger heal.

After Beta Review: This is an updated review after playing the beta for a few days. Virtue's: All of the virtue's cd's are way too long given what you lose. As purely selfish skills, these should be much stronger for the user than any of the current specializations but....they're not. You lose your passives as well as the necessary hits to land for trigger effects are too many. F1's after-cast needs to be removed, F2 and F3 are very smooth otherwise. I also believe the idea of losing a virtue's effects after activating another really hinders the flow. It's NEVER a good idea to spam your virtue's but if someone wants to do it, why not? Off-hand Sword: Executioners calling hits like a wet-noodle, even when fully specced into dps. It's also WAY too difficult to land and clunky to boot. If this ability is to maintain its difficulty, the benefits(dmg) need to reflect that. Advancing Strike is really nice, maybe just increase the range a little. Utilities: Reversal of Fortune: Completely broken and buggy. If this works as a true full-counter skill, it would be amazing. Flash Combo: It's a fun ability to use just incredibly difficult to land the 5-hits needed for repose, even if the target is just moving. Cooldown could be slightly lowered as well. Whirling Light: This ability feels the most complete. Granted, it only works well within melee range, it still does good dmg with decent condition application. I'd put a reflect on this or MAYBE an evasion to make it perfect. It's almost there. Heel Crack: This is the first stun given to Guardian but you need significant follow-up to make this work. Without that, it's just a waste of a slot. This one feels like it needs the most work. Roiling Light: This stun-break is arguably one of the weakest currently available to Guardian across all specs. This does almost nothing to sustain you after the initial break. This needs more cleanse and a far shorter-cd to be viable. Heaven's Palm: This feels like an incredibly weak version of Jade Winds, Chill to the Bone, Prime Light Beam, ect. It's too hard to setup. This, just like Heel Crack probably need an overhaul. Traits: Minors: Righteous Sprint: Finally, a movement speed trait but the added swiftness feels redundant, maybe superspeed or quickness? Lethal Tempo: This is too difficult to upkeep the stacks given how many hits needed from virtue's. Reduce the necessary hits needed. Majors: Adepts: I'm all for trade-off's but these are taken way too far. You're not getting NEARLY as much as you have to give. Boon Pact: If you want to keep this as is, at least make it equal. 15% does not equate to losing 50%. Power for Power: Again, another boring trait. This one is at least closer to being equal. Maybe change this into something that gives you a benefit for having one or more swords equipped? Conceited Curate: See Boon Pact. Masters: Restorative Virtue's: This trait heavily encourages you to spam your virtue's which is NEVER a good idea. Rework this into something else. Holy Reckoning: The damage bonus to Willbender flames is tacked on for no reason. Not to mention, this requires you to keep an enemy within the small circle(just like symbols) to benefit. Stop giving static mechanics to an obviously dynamic specialization. Vanguard Tactics: I like this one, probably doesn't need changing. Grand Masters: Phoenix Protocol: Too much of a trade-off with the amount of hits to trigger any given effect. Again, not even close to equal. Tyrant's Momentum: This is a little bit easier to access given it works on all virtue procs/activations but It's still VERY difficult to keep those stacks going given how many hits is required in combination with the reduced duration. Deathless Courage: Needs a complete overhaul. This overview is STRICTLY for spvp.

The OP has been updated towards the bottom to reflect my current opinions on the class as a whole with each section looked over.

So after playing a bit, I'd give Willbreaker a C- overall, maybe even a D grade overall. The damage doesn't feel significant enough. The cool down increases for nearly everything really ruin so much of the flow. Base-line, current WB virtue's have a longer CD vs core which is insane given how you lose your passive and don't get an initial benefit or is instant.

This is strictly speaking in terms of spvp: Virtues: Range feels too short and while very beautiful animations attached, I still don't feel as fast is I thought I'd be. Also, the benefit gained from the new virtues doesn't add up to what core or dh offer, not even close. Also, the cd's are way too long for skills that are purely selfish. Also, needing 5 hits per effect vs the what the other specs offer feel VERY weak. Sword Off-hand: Executioner's calling feels VERY clunky, especially since it you have to be in melee range to pull it off, vs. say Death Strike on Revenant that is a port + high-damage vs just damage. Traits: Adept Majors: All of them are very boring, uninteresting and very weak. Master Majors: Both Restorative Virtue's and Holy Reckoning are also very weak in terms of providing any benefit. The dmg bonus on Reckoning feels slapped on there for no reason since the damage is insignificant at first. Grand Master Majors: - Phoenix Protocol: The amount of self-alacrity gained was too short. - Tyrant's Momentum: Shouldn't reduce the duration of tempo. - Deathless Courage: No comment.

@Ragnar.4257 That's a huge caveat for sure. If the heal stays as it is, it becomes a much more skillful healing skill and reward as such. I also want everyone to remember that once again, WB will have almost no soft-cc access to stick to their targets. With solid resistance access, this helps to shore up that problem of either speed, soft-cc or both. It looks like we might actually get one of the ones needed.

@Heinel.6548 It's a difficult spot to really comment on the optimal way to utilize them as of this moment. With the Virtue effects being overwritten and not stackable; this alone is reason enough to not spam your virtues. Each one, just like in previous specializations serves a certain purpose, regardless of cd.

Just to clarify a little for those in here who may consider wb to be too strong in terms of mobility, you have to remember that the range on most of the skills are 450-600. These are not terribly long-ranged, mobile abilities. Thief and Rev will still easily outmaneuver this spec.

Radiance looks good. Virtue's I'd take Absolute Resolve, the extra condi-clear on a such a short cd is huge, rest look good. WB I'd take Power for Power, the boon duration is insignificant given what you give up for potential utilities for allies(SYG or Advance for instance), Tyrant's makes sense but you could choose any and probably be okay.

Yeah with the removal of the passive access makes this spec a bit less viable in terms of access to resolution from Zeal. However, with the shorter cd's and potential access to alacrity, this could be shored up.

It's still going to be instant. But you're right, there are a lot of factors to consider. Looking more into the spec, it's not going to have too much crazy, long range access. Most of it is 600 range or less. This spec is still going to be slower than thief and shiro.

The tooltip damage was 1310 with around 2000 power? That's pretty good if you ask me. Plus, it has half the cool down of JI and almost the same range.

The port is instant, the combo afterwards has the cast-time to land.