Arken.3725

Forgive me but a lot of problems aren't JUST Holosmith. I'm a huge advocate of self-nerfing for the betterment of this game as anyone here who knows my post history could tell you IF the nerfs make sense. Really looking at the whole picture, you can't think of a SINGLE issue that elevates Holosmith(or Scrapper) to incredible levels? Honest question.

I know It's a bit off-topic but man do you deserve that immob for playing nades engineer lol. On a serious note, yeah it's quite crazy especially since It's difficult to tell where it came from.

Also, just to chime in, unless you're running pure support guardian, your condition removal is average at best. Warrior as it stands (sb to be specific) has amazing removal from both your heal and shout (which is also a stun break). Warrior arguably has far better removal than guardian on a similar power variant.

That's a possible solution. As it stands, everything(damage-wise) holo has is not only massive, but front-loaded. This is a stark difference of say symbols which need multiple seconds to pull off similar damage in a small circle. This has zero sense behind it.

I want to come back and play and I refuse to play support guard but I feel as if a power variant would just get farmed by specs like these. Also for those saying grenades hit like wet-noodles, imagine symbols being front loaded that could be spammed with the same speed? I bet everyone(myself included) would be complaining about it.

It certainly does have berserker-like damage. When you can literally spam aoe's on top of your self with melee-like damage(like I mentioned) that's literally berserker-like dmg, just in an aoe. The idea of a RANGED AoE skill equaling melee makes zero sense to me and you haven't proven otherwise. Not heavy changes, nerfs. There isn't any compensation needed here. This.....is....brooooken.

Hello there my fellow pvpers, Arken here (still am on hiatus) just chiming in after watching a bunch of streams to give a bit of feedback. As it stands, the general consensus is that both Holosmith and Scourge are the optimal S-tier specs currently. I want to try to give an in depth analysis on why this is. Everything I'm about to say is completely objective, I am only stating facts that are available for all to see(regarding skills/traits, ect). Holosmith(Grenade Variant): This one is a little more difficult to figure out. A combination of very fast and easy to land AoE(both in melee and ranged) that exceed some melee auto-attack third chains, one can see why grenades are such a strong force. Here's a small comparison as to why the JUST the auto-attack grenade is so strong. On a comparative power build on say Guardian running Sword, the total damage on the third chain is 843 whereas the dmg from JUST the auto-grenade is 834. This single skill(not counting the others, some of which are stronger) which can be utilized at both ranged or melee allows such massive dmg at relatively no risk to the user. Combine this with incredible (potentially 75% uptime) superspeed access, stealth, and strong auto's, this is easily seen as the go-to for any roamer. Protection Variant: This one very easy to figure out. With massive access to protection and condition-cleanse with bruiser-level damage, this is also the go-to for any on-point build. Nothing competes with the sheer amount of mortar-spam and mitigation from both sources being so plentiful. With the changes to resolution, you'll find this specialization to be even stronger with more condition-resistance than what we saw before. I haven't played in a while but looking at all the changes(or lack there of), this, along with Scourge seem to be causing too many problems. Make no mistake, this isn't a discussion asking for minor adjustments. These need heavy changes for the betterment of this game. You can't have a class that has incredible mobility, bruiser-like sustain with berserker-like dmg that can be spammed in an aoe to be allowed to run amok. Less needs to be said about the Protection variant with the same magnitude of changes needed.

I do believe Warriors could use a little but once again, we're talking about completely different circumstances.

Welcome to a 9 year long problem. It's been an issue since launch and has never been adjusted. Guardian ranged weaponry(when it's your main source of damage) has some of the worst tracking in this game. Even the reworked Staff Auto can be side-stepped to a lesser extent(same with LB). If we could report this enough, maybe it'll get notice?

It's difficult to say, some builds will afford guardians huge uptime on resolution. But as I've stated before, Guardian builds did rely on retal for some damage that's now gone.

For Guardian, good and bad changes. Let me explain: Resolution: For those of you who know me, I hated retaliation with a passion. The new changes are awesome but here's the caveat, Guardian power builds relied on old retaliation for a little bit of damage, maybe 10%. Regardless of how you feel, it's a loss of damage but an increase in survivability. You could run rune of hoelbrak and get -43% condi damage, that's insane. General DH: Great changes in increasing the viability of dh. As it stands, dh is held together by trapper runes which in my opinion, need to be removed or nerfed heavily. Great sword: Solid change but it won't increase the viability of the weapon. Mantras: This will also not increase the viability of FB. Eternal armory: still think this needs to be completely reworked, each weapon should do something special since Bow doesn't do any damage, it doesn't benefit from the burning. Consecrations: No one uses these and a minor buff doesn't change that. Symbolic power: nasty nerf, can't say I agree with it given that guardian still only has burning access and it's been nerfed into the ground. This nerf further decimates any sort of condition damage spec that was already dead. This is purely from a spvp perspective to clarify.

@Eugchriss.2046 Except there is plenty of risk playing dh. Burn dh is a pub stomper that never will work at the highest level. Other forms of dh are far worse.

Hunters determination should be on a 5 sec icd.

If any of y'all think skill equates to unbiased opinion you're dead wrong. Just because your decent at something doesn't mean you have the games best interests at heart. Plenty of individuals who don't care or know how to critique for fairer play that play well.

I'm not disagreeing with you, otto, I'm just pointing out that I am hoping this sets the stage for a potential mechanic overhaul to something more engaging. I know the issues you speak of and I agree, completely.

I actually agree with most of this list except I feel engie is still dominating fairly well. I would also bump condi ranger up a bit. Other than that, excellent job bro.

Old arken/harrier brand wasn't braindead either. Most fun I've ever had way back when.

That's the issue Buran, symbol-play was unfun and unhealthy for the game(pvp at least). You literally just spammed aoe's that were the same size at the points you were fighting on. Granted it wasn't the strongest(looks at holo), it was unhealthy and boring to use. This predicament stems from the problem that EVERY weapon has a symbol on it. With that, you're usually going to specialize into such a mechanic. With the above-mentioned continuously getting nerfed(first the healing and then the size), the mechanic as a whole has been decimated. I feel like we should consider this a sign of a potential mechanic overhaul. Whether they completely redesign the mechanic and keep it the same across all weapons OR; each weapon now has their own unique skill(unclassified). I feel like the latter is less likely to happen as that would require them to redo EVERY trait that has to do with symbols.

Y'all are going to hate me but I'm for this nerf. Symbol-based play is very boring and incredibly cancerous to fight against. With that being said, I don't approve of a straight-up nerf without a proper replacement. As it stands, Honor is now pretty useless. This change reminds me of the old Staff auto change. Instead of implementing a proper change, they straight-up nerfed it without a proper replacement for months.

As a Guard main, EXCELLENT nerf to big symbols. The mechanic is cancerous and unfun to fight against. Granted honor as it stands is pretty useless now, I'm glad they're doing something about symbols.

I'll put my 2-cents in if It's even worth that much. Before we begin, I want to exclaim that the only things people really complain about guardian are the follows: Passive burning, retal and symbols. With this being said, what I'm about to say in regards to changes WILL make the game far less oppressive for those fighting against this nonsense while ALSO making Guardian more fun and viable still. In regards to core virtue's, I'd argue that baseline, It's one of the most underwhelming class-mechanics in the game. They're literally weak signets. A tiny bit of burning, small heal and 2 clears with 1 stack of aegis on proc is an absolute joke. There's a reason why a lot of people who run burn builds never pop their f1 virtue. My suggestions are as follow. Again, these aren't set in stone for what I'd like to see but rather a starting-point Baseline: Inspired virtue is now baseline. MAYBE retain the passive's after activating them but you'd have to replace loremaster. Virtue of Justice: Remove the passive burning proc and replace it with cripple. This would do two things: First and foremost, it would remove the oppressive nature that is passive condi-application. Secondly, It would give Guardian much needed assistance as a way of sticking to their target. Obviously you'd have to redo some traits/skills to promote a more active play style for condi-application but it would be far healthier. Reduce cd to 15. Virtue of Resolve: Up the base-line condi-removal count to 3. reduce cd to 20. Virtue of Courage: Grant a small amount of barrier in addition to aegis. Reduce Aegis refresh to 30, reduce cd to 30. These are definitely not final nor am I even thinking they'll be considered by the devs. It's just my list of what could help guardian virtue's but also not be oppressive to enemies.

To me, the only real shout worth slotting is syg. The others either provide nothing of value, have too long of a cd or both.

Strong words in this thread. Here's a bit of info coming from spvp(where I assume this discussion is targeted at). Sagebrand(burning) is viable but it is in no way on the same tier as say Tempest, Holo, Daredevil, ect. It can carry for sure if the team is dumb enough to not work around your symbol-spam.

Maybe it's just me but out of 15 matches, I've only seen tempest's, necros or holos. I've only seen one rev and one fb.

You might be right but i'd still like some change-ups.