Jugglemonkey.8741

Well no class should be able to disengage from 5-10 enemies after being CC'ed as the norm. most other classes would be done for and i have to admit the Thief is very forgiving in that regard. That's why everybody things thief is the ez class with no skill needed, if you mess up you have too many "oh kitten" buttons. I've said several times, the only thing a thief can do to annoy people more than permastealth does is to use little stealth and still not die. It shows up the opponents then.

Where did the thief hurt you ? Most of you aint even soloing cus you lack the skill. You run in a group and get picked out and come to the forum to complain. You have Zero experience and didnt bother to take the time to duel the class that hurts you. Its on You,not the spec. Realize this. FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining. And most people don't understand the counter profession/build system. If you are a power oneshot mesmer with 16k hp and you keep going against thieves and losing you cannot go cry on the forum how broken thief is because simply counters your profession and build. Same as thief going against sic'em rangers all day. You can't complain.Exactly. Tbh this is why I have 6 builds set up on my thief while roaming plus a couple others for groups and pve, if your current build is countered by something then odds are another build will counter it.

Each second someone remains in stealth adds a second to revealed which gets applied when the person exits stealth (either by attacking another player or stacked stealth expiring). And there you go. Problem solved. If a deadeye want to stay stealthed for 1 minute, he can be. But afterwards he cannot stealth for 1 minute. If a tp theif want to stealth for 5s, appear to do a single attack and stealth again then infinetily repeat it as they teleport back and forward... nope. You can stealth for 5 seconds sure. But that means you cant for 5 seconds. Simple and effective. That's a more realistic compromise. Silent scope isn't even that bad, you have spend Initiative bouncing out to keep distance or to swap and evade some which rifle doesn't have. Guy mentioning no cooldowns like everything is free is a good preview to the rest of his idea. I like your idea. But deadeye can remove the revealed with Shadow Meld. That elite has 2 charges. How are you proposing to fix that? Are you thinking now adding a new reveal which can't be removed? And then Anet adds a new stealth which can remove that reveal? That is the equivalent to power creep but for invisibility. That's why i thought about camouflage. The idea is to allow the DE to be stealthed for long periods of time with the only requirement to not to perform actions. Also Camouflage would fix the fact you only see the DE attacks when they hit you (with the only exception of Death Judgement which can be circumvented by using quickness so the 1 second precast is minimized) . Which means the DE can land an attack like Spotter's Shot from invisibility immobilise you then a Three Round Burst and go back into stealth while you are still bussy cleansing the immob. Camouflage would disappear as soon as the DE hit the action button in opposition to when the projectile hit you, which gives the player the opportunity to perform a counter play if the target is quick enough. Now the first impact is hit guaranteed. I understand the concept may be difficult to see but there is a big difference between stealth and camouflage. That's why i came up wit the idea of the visibility radius for normal stealth. The point is to give the target the possibility to dodge or perform an action and to understand what happened even if that margin is very slim. Right now i can one shot some glass eles or mesmers even before they can do anything. I see it as a very cheesy mechanic which i understand is very unfun to play against. I think his idea shouldn't have to take Shadow Meld into consideration because that Elite Skill should be replaced. A DE Elite skill should be something that strengthens Kneel stance, like adds some defense and counter measures and allows temporary slow movement in crouch or something. I've also suggested before having some kind of proximity visual filter (only visual, while stealth mechanics still apply) that would force a stealth user to plan their resources and utilities to land a deceptive opener or heavy hit, but then people would need to be cool with something like that being a thing, which they most likely wouldn't be and there would be endless threads about that.Honestly, I don't think it would need that either. If I hide in a keep then attack someone after more than a minute, having more than a minute of reveal as a result will absolutely force me to use shadow meld. That's one charge. I then have one charge to counter a reveal, and after that I am toast because against more than 1 player their reveals will be off cooldown before shadow meld is. I do agree kneel skills should be better than they are tho, but that's a separate thread.

It's pretty important for thieves, since your defences are active and changing your build to work around a defensive skill can flip a matchup on it's head. Depends what and how you play, I guess.

Where is this rare communicative thief and how can we get them to server transfer? I've only played along side ones looking to use stealth as a crutch for ganking. For every thief you see goofing around somewhere, you will see players on other classes doing the same, and I'm pretty sure everyone has memories of players on all classes being outright detriments to their team through their behaviour. The failure to be useful just means that player is being useless at that time, it doesn't mean that their class can't be useful if used right. You may have a point about larger groups always getting supply, but I can always stealth ahead of their zerg while they cap a camp for supply and try to place supply traps if I want to be really annoying. Something I can always do is force several players to run dollies if they want their towers and keeps to upgrade, that's one player dictating what happens across 3-4 objectives, and on resets it's not uncommon for me to get 5-10 players come to defend north camp while laying stealth traps etc. If those players aren't on their tag and are spreading out across a camp looking for me, that's a numbers advantage to our group wherever they're fighting. I'm just describing stuff that I try to do when working with a tag, and yeah, I usually get a spot in the squad and participation when doing it. That said, I'm known to my guild (a server community guild) and commanders, I am usually using voice comms, and I'm probably one of the only people who has a full minstrel deadeye build just for scouting zergs and hiding in objectives, so that may have something to do with it too. That's also assuming I'm working with a tag at the time; sometimes I just feel like solo roaming and seeing what happens, and it's okay for players to want to do that. My overall point is that just because thief players either fail or do not try to be useful to a tag doesn't mean they can't be if they wanted to; WvW does not solely revolve around roaming & scouting, havok, open field fights, GvG or PPT, all of these things are important and useful if given their proper place.

So, according to you, outside of using voice comms and perma-stealthing behind an enemy tag so your tag always knows where they are, hiding in towers and recapping solo so your tag can focus on the enemy, cutting supply lines so the enemy cannot sustain an attack, keeping enemy players from contributing to their zerg by forcing them to hunt the thief or lose the objective, and downing backliners in open field fights to provide targets for your tag to bomb, thief has no use. Gotcha. Fyi, something doesn't become useless just because you can't see a use for it.

I hope u meant portal tele and not tele in general cuz kitten... He probably does. I mean, it's not like anyone asked for portal, or preparations in general really, just for traps to be functional.

If you can't think of a use for a thief, that's more a reflection of your ability than it is of the class.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Keg_of_Instant_World_Experience If you get one of these from a drop, it will give you 5 (I think) levels at once, and it's automatically consumed. More than likely you just noticed one drop, where usually it just happens without fanfare.

Also check your mouse/keyboard. Is the button sticking? If you hold down the button it will do exactly what you described, hence why I ask.

They did try to change it by making the skill check if it could port before firing the arrow, but it is still possible to fire the arrow, have the game check to see that it can, then move into a space that the port cannot work while the arrow is in flight. Not common, but yeah, it usually results in death when it does happen.

Lol. Clearly just making up examples. "I know a guy." "They are all hacking/exploiting under the map." "Six hours a day kek." That sounds really boring. Kittens and puppies level of "why would anyone even try that for 20 minutes let alone 5+ hours?" Oh right. Because it doesn't happen. Also, why is permastealth even an issue if he's talking about hackers? If these people are untargetable due to being under the map, them being thieves is wholly irrelevant. If the deadeye is hiding in a keep and doing it legitimately without hacking, the fact that hackers exist is wholly irrelevant. Just sounds like an attempt to link thieves to hackers in the hope they get nerfed, frankly.

Gw2 has no roles.Every Profession in the game has ways to do Condi damage, do Power damage, heal, take hits, support etc. It's just that some Professions do it better. Thief can't face tank things, Thief can't power heal, Thief can't pulse boons all day long, but that's fine.A few other Professions can't either. Why are people dead set on having the best of everything for their favourite Profession? Because those so non existent roles do very much exist in raids/fractals and wvw. Honestly, i wouldn't mind thief having only dps specs if they were THAT good, like rogues in wow. But they are not. Every other prof does it better. Before xpacs you could argue that thief excels at mobility but even at that they are not THAT great anymore. Nearly any class has enough mobility to diminish thief importance in pvp. I am honestly annoyed at this point due to begging for crumbs and being forced to reroll to everything else just to be able to participate in game content. I do NOT have this problem as mesmer for example.Well, mesmer they just delete periodically through ham fisted nerfs. There's no point in begging for crumbs after someone just stabbed you in the gut.

Did you ever try duelling a meta D/P thief on a non meta thief build in HoT? Honestly I liked Pulm Impact, but I really like that D/P thieves can't cheese every other thief build through interrupt damage now, that alone killed a lot of build diversity for a long time imo. I don't really want to see that kind of gameplay come back, either.

I've always seen my teammates as meat shields; necessary to bring along, but expendable if it means getting what we came for. A support thief wouldn't make a lot of sense to me personally.

Sounds good but it would have to perform well in it's role to be enough of a draw. A bard could be fun, they could call it the Hype Bandit or something and the skills could be dance moves and the e-spec utilities could be jam out emotes that buff allies. Knowing our luck, it'll end up being a mime instead. If I can fight a group miming the Robot dance I'd consider it. . If it's based around stances, that's the offensive stance and the defensive stance is the "staying alive" dance, I'd take that lol

Sounds good but it would have to perform well in it's role to be enough of a draw. A bard could be fun, they could call it the Hype Bandit or something and the skills could be dance moves and the e-spec utilities could be jam out emotes that buff allies. Knowing our luck, it'll end up being a mime instead.

Delete trailblazer stats from wvw for everyone/every class. Or dont delete them for the sake of build diversity (lol) but lower the stats by 50%. People would just switch to Dire or started mixing other stats to get still tanky af and spread condies left and right, it won't fix it in long run, sadly.Condi cap need to come back to PvP and WvW or even better, prevent reapplication within x seconds of the same condi if it was cleansed or expired, so you won't get like 20 Torment stacks 1 second after you've cleansed 15 stacks. Another thing that must happen is to remove circus traits that do chain reactions like you use whatever skill x and it activates trait abc which have like whatever bleed which will activate another fgh trait which will apply blind and others. Not mentioning to give proper animations and bug fixes.A-net should from the very beginning of the game make sure that condies would be supplementary damage/soft cc, not the main source of it. although i agree that only deleting trailblazer or gutting it wouldnt be enough, i dont think dire ar apothecary ect would achieve the same results since the buffed condi duration through trailblazer plays a big role in 20 torment stacks staying 20 for 5-10 seconds, or rapidly decreasing within 1-3 seconds and therefore not dealing the same ammount of dmg.to come back to OPs topic, i have no real problem with "circus traits" of any build besides druid entanglement myself.while condi herald might be one of the most oppressive builds in wvw roaming right now, u can just disengage if u realize what build he is running, and u dont have to keep fighting it. condi druid on the other hand wont let u come far with all his cc and okayish chase potential on staff. Uhm actually the biggest offender in condirev builds is this: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Tormenting 50% extra torment duration plus heal whenever torment is applied with no icd. If you can avoid the weaponswap condis, dodge the pull and have cleansing sigils, you will generally be fine vs most condi revs as most are relying on the inability of the general playerbase to dodge AoE. If all else fails, play a condi DE and nuke them from out of their effective range.Now that is something beside the point. Does condi revs ever die? Yes what a shocker. They do. Not that you're not both right. You are. Its not the condi on a condi rev thats the issue. Anyone can fight that condi - especially since he's relying on torment alone, not like a necro vomitting condis. Whats OP here is the rune heal in combination with that condi. Its not trailblazer that allows the condi rev to bunker to the max - its the insane healing. Deleting trailblazer - and dire for that matter - would do exactly zero to change that because you get zero to healing from trailblazer or dire. Now add a minstrel firebrand pocket healer on top.Yes, that is a very good point. I was more addressing the "X has no counters NEEEERF" mentality that some people (not you) have, so my reply wasn't really a reply to you I guess (It was late when I posted, blame that lol). But yeah, the healing. I was running tormenting runes on a trailblazer DE at one point, and the heals from runes plus SA traits added up to around 2k per sneak attack. Not massive compared to Rev as their torment application is AoE, but it is definitely noticable when you have 16k base health and you start spamming dancing dagger in a group.

Delete trailblazer stats from wvw for everyone/every class. Or dont delete them for the sake of build diversity (lol) but lower the stats by 50%. People would just switch to Dire or started mixing other stats to get still tanky af and spread condies left and right, it won't fix it in long run, sadly.Condi cap need to come back to PvP and WvW or even better, prevent reapplication within x seconds of the same condi if it was cleansed or expired, so you won't get like 20 Torment stacks 1 second after you've cleansed 15 stacks. Another thing that must happen is to remove circus traits that do chain reactions like you use whatever skill x and it activates trait abc which have like whatever bleed which will activate another fgh trait which will apply blind and others. Not mentioning to give proper animations and bug fixes.A-net should from the very beginning of the game make sure that condies would be supplementary damage/soft cc, not the main source of it. although i agree that only deleting trailblazer or gutting it wouldnt be enough, i dont think dire ar apothecary ect would achieve the same results since the buffed condi duration through trailblazer plays a big role in 20 torment stacks staying 20 for 5-10 seconds, or rapidly decreasing within 1-3 seconds and therefore not dealing the same ammount of dmg.to come back to OPs topic, i have no real problem with "circus traits" of any build besides druid entanglement myself.while condi herald might be one of the most oppressive builds in wvw roaming right now, u can just disengage if u realize what build he is running, and u dont have to keep fighting it. condi druid on the other hand wont let u come far with all his cc and okayish chase potential on staff. Uhm actually the biggest offender in condirev builds is this: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Tormenting 50% extra torment duration plus heal whenever torment is applied with no icd.If you can avoid the weaponswap condis, dodge the pull and have cleansing sigils, you will generally be fine vs most condi revs as most are relying on the inability of the general playerbase to dodge AoE. If all else fails, play a condi DE and nuke them from out of their effective range.

We would appreciate a simple yes or no on alliances still being developed. Dude hasn't commented on anything since March 2019, I doubt he's still here.

It's not surprising that the devs have changed their minds regarding thief balance, I mean, were any of the current devs even on the team two years ago?

There's an expac coming. That means everything that isn't part of the expac (by which I mean part of the stuff they want you to spend money on) is going to get nerfed repeatedly until the expac drops. It's happened every time, just part of the cycle at this point.

See that weapon you're holding? The pointy end goes in the other guy.

Thats not true. People dont hate these mechanics. People hate, that thief has all of them... Name one rogue in any mmo that doesn't. Wow-check, eso-check,bdo,check,ff14-check lol rogue archetype always use stealth, high evades and teleports in pretty much every mmo, it's what its thing is. Other classes have reveals, higher hp, higher armor, barriers, more access to blocks/shields, invulnerability skills and other defensive skills and in gw2 even other classes have access to teleports( rangers,guards,mesmer,ele,necro, rev etc) and also stealth( ranger,mesmer,guards with trappers etc) the real issue is rogue's are just generally disliked by the players who dont play them due to their universal playstyle, which is why the rogue complaining is the same on every mmo forum. Anet needs to learn to ignore the whining if they want to have a rogue like in their game. I think most non rogue complain because there is no skill being invisible and fighting invisible things are no fun. Now most games you mention have some deterrent being in stealth usually a 50 percent speed reduction while stealthed. Gw2 this nonsense is just magnified. No speed reduction lots of stealth and if a rogue fails he can lose over and over and come back stealthed again until he wins so players will complain. Rogue always attract the same type player. The griefer who doesn't like to die and likes to spawn camp and in most games camp much lower levels to one shot. Players who get one shot or spawn camped or attacked from stealth always complain because for the most part there's nothing to counter not being able to see your opponent. Do you really think it's fun to get jumped out of nowhere die before you can react but if you don't die and start fighting and god forbid start to win then you get denied the kill because you run. Then multiple that in gw2 by 1000 times. Yeah players will complain.Stealth is just a bad mechanic but like you said you can't make a mmo w/o one but I have yet to play one where stealth was fairly balanced and able to counter. I hear ya. But in those other mmo's the rogue's also dont have to continually use up their global skill resources to keep stealth uptime. I definitely agree stealth is a annoying mechanic to fight against and frustrating especially if one shots outa stealth are happening but managing ur global resources while using them to maintain stealth as well as using the smoke fields and such I wouldnt say stealth is skill less. I honestly think stealth in any form that is effective against a opponent will be qq'd about often and repeatedly, with that in mind I guess my point is I dont think anything other than a full removal will help the situation much and I dont believe that will happen. It's not skilless in gw2 but it does reward bad thief's with easy kills and the really good thief's can take on 5 6 players and never get killed and even down/kill in those situations which yeah that's not normal and why even bother chasing/fighting unless you bored. Stealth is just a qq factory and has probably made more new players quit mmos then anything else. Yeah unless there's no stealth there will always be issues but I doubt any mmo would have the balls to make one w/o a thief type class.Oh and the topic yeah if you can't avoid sentry's and the 1 watchtower per map I can't help you. We all get marked cept by the time someone responds you can stealth and run off and most of us can't. 1 thief taking on 5 players? I've seen things like this posted before lol in 7 yrs I've never seen this, who are u playing with? Lol. I've never 2v1 a thief and not either killed the thief or forced it to run and especially not a 3vthief lol. On occasion I've faced thieves especially s/d in wvw where they out skilled me hard with positioning on infiltrator strike and evades they seemed untouchable but that's on me for not catching them in cc's at the right time and cuz most my skills are neutered (I'm usual on warrior small amount I play these days) not really that they were OP just simply better than me. No hes engaging 5 players and they all chasing him and can't kill him not he wins and kills all 5. I see it all the time near smc then if he really wants to troll you get the perma keep tapper with 8 or 9 chasing.Depends on the builds and the players. I once killed a 5 man guild group in north camp of DBL on a minimal stealth condi trapper build, and I mean I killed them all, none got away. That said, they were five people who were stupid enough to try ressing each other through traps and choking gas after I got a full trap spike on two of them, downing them shortly after. At the time choking gas was a poison field with a pulsing daze, while I had fun stuff like torment on interrupt and draining/absorption sigils stealing their boons and healing me for 5k a second through interrupts. If they had moved out of my AoE to focus and down me before going to res whoever I got they would have killed me fairly easily, but like I say, they misplayed hard. You are generally right tho, you won't ever win fights against those kind of numbers vs anyone who has actually played thief and knows how to handle it.