NuhDah.9812

If you detonate the #2 sb attack the CB at closer range to the ground and it crits you might inflict aoe backstab comparable dmg to the enemy(s). It's a good source of pressure anyways and since thief doesant have too much 360 deg cleave, this can be used that way to a certain amount. It's great for deleting mesmer clones too. You can also use both #2 and #4 to agitate other people in stealth. #1 and #3 are pretty good kiting tools too, so you can keep a bit o pressure on stuff like reaper shroud form while keeping your distance from their melee or 600 range that is about an instant death sentince for a squishy thief. #1 is pretty good against 2 opponents that stick close together since it does double the dmg due to bouncing. #3 can be used instead of a normal dodge against quick attaks if you get stuck with sb and to manage some of your endurance and also for exiting pulsing aoe float effects. And yeah, #5 everyone knows what's that for.

Actually the only people I see in this thread grieving are bads that don't play stealth and can't be bothered to learn how to play against it, those types that believe their overtunned builds are entitled to carry them even in unpredictable situations, the kind that stealth might be able to provide in the right hands. What? Not much counter in most games to invisible. Lots end up being stealth/stun locked dead. Sure gw2 i can squint my eyes looking for a couple tells for a couple abilities. But sure if you think i'm griefing or am bad cause of thinking stealth in games is garbage that's fine.I'm only telling you what I see written here on this thread and it amounts only the same as the statements you made in your previous post. I've made attempts more than once on the forums to make people understand that stealth is nothing close to that overpowered monster ability one cannot deal with, in fact due to the less target based nature of this game you have plenty of options to play against it and you can see in the high tear or meta of the game that there is no heavy stealth build there since people who just bothered a bit learning how to deal with stealth have no issues fighting against it. The game gives you enough options and ways to prevent stealth and stealth users to be effective. Since most of the people here are crying about it instead of being able to at least try thinking of what options there are to counter it, how other more skilled players go about facing it or at least appreciating a bit how stealth is implemented in gw2 (especially compared to other implementations in other games) I can only conclude what I've written above: they don't play it, can't be bothered to learn how to play against it and believe their overtunned builds are entitled to carry them. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/912138#Comment_912138 here's a list of things that might help any of the people who have difficulties in fighting against stealth. Again, I try stopping this trend of stealth accusations for people who only think stealth should be a copy from other games (WoW or other) and don't bother to understand that, with a bit of mentality change for when their expectations aren't met, a whole other horizon of possibilities might appear.

If you'd have any other sort of active or passive defenses to keep you alive for that long that wouldn't be a problem, but you'll probably need to waste all dodges and every defensive ability you have only to keep alive against most match-ups using D/P or DE riffle. I guess it would be a valid point if you just wanted to kill those two weapon sets for good an only leave thief with no stealth option builds. I'm almost certain S/D would hurt enough too if they could use stealth from CnD only once 10-20 seconds. Not like they didn't take out most of thief's options out of the meta or decent choices anyways and not that thief isn't squishy enough as it is without using gimmick "perma" evade staff drd with acro or other sort of obnoxious evade heavy builds.

Actually the only people I see in this thread grieving are bads that don't play stealth and can't be bothered to learn how to play against it, those types that believe their overtunned builds are entitled to carry them even in unpredictable situations, the kind that stealth might be able to provide in the right hands.

Actually DS can have it's uses offensively too, especially when you go against players with one-shot builds. DS is your lord savior when fighting stuff like dmg soulbeasts, deadeyes or fresh air ele if you reflect they one shots while porting in their melee range you can mess them up pretty badly. Also any heavy clone mesmer build will be put in defensive mode, and reapers can be messed up too if you get them into a tight space the same way. But yeah, probably the smart players won't be caught in those kind of situations and would know how to play around it to be minimally affected.

I don't particulary like the range nerf, but if they want to justify it going the browler route then I would sugest halving steal cooldown, or lowering it so you can use its benefits more often in a close quarters fight. Also, changing the stolen skills to suit a brawler combat style might be warranted.

Not sure, like I said, this was an odd idea to try and get new players to be less scared of actually getting in fights. It's up for discussion cause it's only the barest outline of the idea as of yet. Not sure why do you think adding rewards for losses would make players less scared to get into fights... is this some sort of buying courage with money mentality? Anyways it seems like a bit of a convoluted way of thinking. Especially since you wont get the same amount of rewards as chilling and killing some mobs in pve, anyways. If someone is afraid of a challenge, they will be with or without the rewards. I guess you'll have to reward them for failing pretty well for them to even bother trying, but wvw is not really the place to get rich even for those who can fight and win.

If they would be able to determine when this "refund" should happen, they should have been able to fix the obstruction or other similar port issues that consume initiative while not porting in the first place. But it doesn't seem that's the case.

Actually "my block of text" denys it in quite a few places, you just need to read, some of which might be more "stealthy" negations that result as conclusions to logic assesment of the phrases and not being strait up NOs, but I assure you they are there. And fyi, fighting personal ego is diferent from fighting stealth, that's where most people are struggling, just saying.

Your sarcasm aside, most people crying about stealth expect to win aginst it without even thinking about all this basic combat stuff, so yeah, extra effort should be required for the extra ignorant. And no, their extra effort isn't more than the effort stealth users put into playing, and ignoring all the points besides the 2nd will only get you dead... All of the stuff i've listed here is what i personally use to play aginst other stealth players. If i can do it, there is no reason for anyone else to think it's to much effort put into overcoming a challenge. So stealth isn't anything diferent compared to other mechanics of the game, might not be that obvious of how to be fought aginst like for example an in your face block, and people might get frustrated since most of the information human beings absorb is through the visual field of their eyes, but the informarion is still there and our brains have more than one function or input to process information. Using those to solve the problem is not any more effort, but i guess, fighting personal ego and accepting that not everything is always in your face visible on the battleground might be for some. the quickest example that comes to mind is thief, being one of the weakest 1v1ers in the game while being the most stealth heavy profession. At competitive level, where all people put the same amount of effort into being the best, stealth builds of thief aren't considered a threat in 1v1s or 2v2 or zerg vs zerg. Now you can say mesmer is/was very potent in 1v1... but fact is we all know that it wasn't stealth that made it overtuned.

It's an interesting idea, but i'd go for 3 or 5 seconds instead of 10. Suficiently enough to pull of a stomp and revitalize stomping usage in the current combat system.

I> @"Burnfall.9573" said: There is nothing broken about stealth in this game, what is broken is people who play this game for 7 years and didn't bothered to try learning how to fight against it. As amazing as it sounds to some, yeah, there are ways to fight against players in stealth, as I mentioned some time before on some other post, but it seems people still prefer crying about it instead of trying to use their head a little or at least get informed. So let's see: You have Reveal. Ok, you don't want to waste your precious build on reveal mechanics or your profession doesn't have any reasonable means to do it. Fine, there's more;Stealth yourself. It drops target from yourself and you can also leave or get yourself in a more advantageous or safer position. Most professions have a way to stealth, at least for a short time so this shouldn't be that hard to use, but even if for instance you don't have any means;You can react with an active defense ability like a block, or a dodge, followed by a fast cc and a handful of attacks to kill the pesky knocked down stealther fast the only thing you need is to be present in your gameplay and fast. even without this, there are;Passive defenses: aegis, invulns, effects like daze on damage taken or cc received;One of the most important skill you need to have though is awareness. Pay attention to your surrounds and you'll see, far away in the distance someone approaces, and than vanishes. You should get prepared or leave; running away doesn't mean you're a coward, it means that the person who wanted to attack you might lose the stealth, need to use more cooldowns to keep it up and git gives you an advantage to turn back and hit them when they are vulnerable;Think. Woh, this is a hard one; anticipate where your opponent might be moving towards and how much time they need to reach over to you. Act accordingly, using active defenses and even any sort of aoe or cleave to hit them, make them waste dodges, slow them down for a chance to get them out of stealth before they hit you, kite.Interrupt stealth activation or combo. Most of the ways to stealth in the game have an activation time which can be interrupted;Start a channeled ability before the enter stealth; it will follow them around like they hav a tracking device on them, dealing dmg and giving away their position;Fill them up with condies, and they will die in or outside stealth.So yeah, I'm not sure if I've covered it all, but if I've missed something, please post them down here, in hopes people will learn something instead of crying. P.S. And yeah, I defend the stealth of this game since it's the only form of stealth in any game I've played that is neither a liability or infinite, it can be used both for defensive and offensive gameplay while is also vulnerable and has a drawbacks of using up resources or cds, not being able to stealth immediately after attacking due to the 3 sec reveal (removing reveal of thief DE, still seems like a stupid addition to me, but other than that, it works just fine) and not being able to cap/decap while in stealth.

The downside of pulling someone to you instead gap closing is that if the enemy uses any anti cc mechanic like blocks, evades, stability, etc. steal will be usless. Meanwhile, steal as a port in helps the thief stay in melee range of the enemy even if they dodge or block or whatever defensive tool the enemy uses (if you think a pull is a more melee oriented skill than a gap closer). Add to this all the combination attacks that use steal port as a centerpiece, and all the LoS that don't affect shadowsteps, but affect pulls... I really don't se any benefit for daredevil in making swipe a pull, especially since scorpion wire exists and does mostly the same thing on a lower cooldown and with 2 ammo charges.

I was asking about a checkbox in the options menu that controls this behavior (that allows removing target / keeps the current target when clicking on the terrain). I was sure there was something like that in the menu, that being said I'm probably confusing this with something else. About what you said, yeap if you press on an UI element (for example the enemy portrait) it isn't removing target, and there is quite some screen space covered by transparent UI elements or element padding, so if you're not careful you'll click on those instead of the terrain. Pretty "cool" way to mess up your disengages and kiting with leaps or target based movement abilities when you think you removed target and should be moving away, but instead you clicked on the UI turned 180 degrees and went strait forward to the enemy you wanted to keep distance from. Alternatively you have ESC but it's much faster with less hand movement involved to just click on left mb on the terrain for resetting target. What was I was interested though was the option to not allow target removal on terrain click and only allow it on ESC. Which is funny, but I think it would be another pain in the ass altogether, but I was wandering if that would be a gameplay option that could be adapted to. And I was sure there was an checkbox for it in the options menu, but I can't seem to find it, so I was asking around.

I'm not sure, my memory is a bit fuzzy, but I feel like I've seen such an option in the Options menu. Is there something like "Disable/Enable removing target when clicking on terrain" and I'm not looking in the right place, or there was never such an option and it's just my imagination or mixing this with another game's options menu?

If they are bad, it's their loss, I don't see why would that concern you, OP, you should be happy you are better. But, keep in mind, if you push/enter/overcommit to fights you cannot win, you are also bad.

I mean LITERALLY THE POST RIGHT BEFORE YOURS he explained multiple ways to avoid it, I don't know how you can not see that I feel like you're missing his entire point or the point everyone is making against 1 shot clown kitten, so I'll throw a brief explanation in. When a game has one shot builds it leads to 2 types of players, those that abuse the cheese and those that despise it because it is just that, cheese. It's extremely bad for the health of a pvp game to have the "counterplay" to being one shot to randomly predict when a stealth person is gonna jump on you and blow you up, this is the same reason people wanted mirage nerfed, because no one has fun plying rng simulator with their life. It actually leads to 3 types of player: those who know to counter it, those who learn how to play against it, and those who cry about it, the later one probably overlaps with your "those that despise it" category. One shot builds are not the problem in this game. The real problem are builds that can constantly one shot you once every 10 seconds or less, who also have strog defense mecanics and can't be one shoted back by another glass canon. Cause lets face it, glass canons should be the only clases that should be able to 1shot. Oh and the 10 seconds interval i mentoned is the time one needs to recover energy for a dodge, it makes the 1shot dodgeable unless you waste evades. And yeah there are proffesions with builds that can 1shot you in a time frame less than 10 seconds while having enough defense mecanics to go toe to toe with sustained builds. I guess those are the real offenders in the game right now. And how exactly you can counterplay a SINGLE instakill attack that came from stealth? Because that is the problem in the game right now. It may be okay for glass canon to do 1-shot against another glass canon. But the ele in video is not really a glass canon. He invest some of offensive stats to VITALITY, yet the thief can still instakill him FROM STEALTH. And killing player in a frame of 10 secs is not 1-shot. A lot of things can happen in that scenario. Every profession can do that.There are ways to deal with "stealth 1-shots" too. Firstly there are passives you can use against that if you really feel like there's no other way you can deal with them. Otherwise, if you see the thief/mesmer stealthing from afar you'll know the 1shot might come any time so you can approximate the time it takes for them to be in range and dodge at the right time so they miss their burst, same you can block or invuln if that's more of your profession style. But there is also a good counterplay in getting into stealth yourself so they lose target on you and lose time, some might even steal on nothing and waste their cooldown. And don't forget about revealed, since stuff like sic 'em would surely work in the thief burst range. It's only a problem of awareness and not getting a viable wvw build. If you go with your build all pve and are not prepared to get bursted (the right utilities, weapons and traits - and yeah, there are some better then others for this sort of thing, you can't go around that), you'll die pretty fast in wvw even with 3000 toughness, and not only by stealth burst, but by any sort of burst done by any decent player. Sorry for the late reply, I was gone on a holiday trip. Cheers.

I mean LITERALLY THE POST RIGHT BEFORE YOURS he explained multiple ways to avoid it, I don't know how you can not see that I feel like you're missing his entire point or the point everyone is making against 1 shot clown kitten, so I'll throw a brief explanation in. When a game has one shot builds it leads to 2 types of players, those that abuse the cheese and those that despise it because it is just that, cheese. It's extremely bad for the health of a pvp game to have the "counterplay" to being one shot to randomly predict when a stealth person is gonna jump on you and blow you up, this is the same reason people wanted mirage nerfed, because no one has fun plying rng simulator with their life. It actually leads to 3 types of player: those who know to counter it, those who learn how to play against it, and those who cry about it, the later one probably overlaps with your "those that despise it" category. One shot builds are not the problem in this game. The real problem are builds that can constantly one shot you once every 10 seconds or less, who also have strog defense mecanics and can't be one shoted back by another glass canon. Cause lets face it, glass canons should be the only clases that should be able to 1shot. Oh and the 10 seconds interval i mentoned is the time one needs to recover energy for a dodge, it makes the 1shot dodgeable unless you waste evades. And yeah there are proffesions with builds that can 1shot you in a time frame less than 10 seconds while having enough defense mecanics to go toe to toe with sustained builds. I guess those are the real offenders in the game right now.

the problem with the trap is the much longer duration reveal then just those 1-6 seconds skill based reveals offer + it being undodgeable.the trap is not an issue in 1 vs 1 fights as your right channeling 4s often means they are dead. still everyday people use those traps against me, not in 1 on 1 but then i am already outnumbered because then i cannot avoid those traps being planted, if planted outside my FoV i might step into it in a bad moment and die. yes i often survive those traps, the problem is i have to remove that revealed or i am dead because it lasts just way too long. against a stealth heavy build reveal is nearly as strong as a stun yet they never last 20 seconds and you got way more options to get rid of them.sure everyone can have a reveal but the reveal has to be of reasonable duration and application, therefor also avoidable if you see the reveal comming. what bothers me more is that there are very few people actually playing builds depending on stealth, for many builds utilizing stealth they will most likely survive even revealed so this is not really what is going to help against em, as they still have plenty of mobility, endurance etc. and well there are not really counters to dodging and teleporting so even with a reveal you wont catch them, they still will escape. You realize that a fair battle isn't just about one player managing to survive against an enemy... surviving that way doesn't contribute to defeating the enemy it only contributes to wasting your own time and letting the enemy still do what they want. And while there are builds specifically build for escaping capabilities that don't even need stealth to escape some slower foes, the same complaint you can have against builds that you can use all the stealth and mobility in the game to fight against and still not be able to win. The way stealth is implemented in gw2 is one of the more ineresting designs in my opinion since it's not permanent, it's short duration, but it can stack up to 5 times, it doesn't make you immune to damage, on the other hand dmg doesn't specifically take you out of stealth, it has a timer you are locked out of it after lending direct dmg and there are also some abilities and sigils that have this specific function. While I don't think there is a place for perma stealth builds in the game for anything else than trolling, anet did remove most of the offenders in time, so perma stealth isn't something that still exists in the game.

we need a thumbs down option for threads like this one... :P

I've got an idea... how about dueling requests can only be send between party members? That would let friends have duels between them if they want to and also make it so you can't spam and bother people who aren't interested in it.

They want to be an anime character. Exactly... actually I'd go even further. I'd like the next elite specialization to allow thief to equip 2 greatswords together and create clones of themselves while throwing around ninja stars. They should work like a mirage and scourge hybrid. You create clones, and all clone start spinning and spit tones of ninja stars that reflect projectiles bounce and deal tens of stacks of condi damage around them while you go into stealth and throw 2 greatswords together from 1500 meters and deal huge damage to everyone in their path. Also if someone deals a normally killing blow, the thief uses the substitution technique replacing himself with a training dummy and appearing behind you. The thief should also be able to release the clones and transferring their left health and boons to the original thief. That is my anime story.

Now that we have all those pictures, should we call the police?