[Thank you, ANet, for making the Strike Mission optional]

1 hour ago, mythical.6315 said:

It is as I’ve stated several times now that group content is a part of MMOs and practically all of them have content that can only be obtained by doing group content. I use it in this context because GW2 is an MMO so the poster I quoted should realize that group content would be required for some items in the game such as a legendary. 
 

I used the dungeon argument to explain that the issue isn’t really with group content itself but specific piece of content (i.e. strikes) out of a matter of personal preference. I’ve stated this more than once already as well. I don’t really want to have to repeat myself yet again. 

You can keep stating that, that doesn't change the fact that the poster you've quoted was referring to the current Return to... events that have a way to be completed by people who don't appreciate group content. Your "This is an MMO" makes no sense in this context, because forced group content is simply not required in this case.

Because this is an MMO,  Anet knows the players that play MMOs have varying interests. Anet has introduced a way in which players aren't forced to do the group content in this case. You have to realise that this is an MMO, so there are various types of players and content they prefer. Anet already does realise that, you don't seem to. 

No one has an issue with the dungeon/strikes in the Return to... content. No one is arguing anything about dungeon/strikes thing but you yourself here. You're creating an issue out of thin air yourself.

If you don't want to repeat yourself, then simply don't. Just stop. Repeating yourself hasn't added anything to this conversation. You've been stuck in this loop of repeating yourself, simply because you want to have the last word for some reason, without making sense. You've created yourself an issue that doesn't even exist in this Return to... content just to further argue without any substance.

[Thank you, ANet, for making the Strike Mission optional]

17 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

MMOs have group content with things locked behind that. This is why I stated “It’s an MMO” in that post. Just because MMOs also have other types of content, that doesn’t invalidate what I said. 
 

I brought up dungeons as I’m sure players who complain if the strike were mandatory would have had no issues if it were the dungeon instead. Quite often players complain about having to do group content for a specific thing despite having no issues doing it at all other times. 
 

As for the last part of your post, I took issue with a poster who commented about forced group content. You did not have to respond to my post. 

You used "It's an MMO" as if it was a relevant argument. It is not, because that phrase doesn't mean anything for the aforementioned reasons.

I'm not invalidating what you're saying. Yes, MMOs have group content, MMOs also have people who don't appreciate forced group content. After all, it's an MMO (See how it is nonsense to use that as an argument? You can basically use it for anything in the context of MMOs).

About the dungeons/strike thing: So you just made up an irrelevant imaginary argument about dungeons/strikes for the sake of arguing with no one. Ok, I suppose. Not sure how that is relevant to anything at all, as the person you initialy took offense to was talking about forced group content, as you repeated, which would include both strikes and dungeons.

I didn't have to respond to your post. You're right. But, just as you did, I did take issue with a poster who commented with the nonsensical "It's an MMO"-statement. I mean, this is an MMO forum, after all, and discussions are part of that😉.

[Another delay might be necessary.]

11 minutes ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

 Nah this will not happen. ArenaNet delivered 2 Addons. This Addon is very important for ArenaNet and the Franchise. So when they are in need for more time, im Ok with it. 

Sorry, my bad. I didn't have the intention to sound like Anet will delay forever. I should have clarified that.

It was just a general statement about delays not always being the best, unrelated to GW2.

 

I share your opinion that if Anet needs more time for development, they should delay it a second time. Like you, I don't think they'll end up in a development limbo.

[Another delay might be necessary.]

7 minutes ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

 

Cyberpunk showed that a delay is the better option.

Not sure if a game that was delayed multiple times and still released in a sorry state is the best example to give.

Generally I don't think another EoD delay is needed due to other games of differing genres releasing in the same month, but that's something Anet has to figure out.

I'll just say delaying a game long enough might also end up either in a Duke Nukem Forever / Crowfall situation or Star Citizen development limbo.

[Thank you, ANet, for making the Strike Mission optional]

19 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

MMOs have group content. That’s what I was getting at. 

Oh I know. MMOs also have all different varieties of content, e.g. the ones mentioned earlier.

That's why I'm saying your initial "It's an MMO" argument is worthless and makes no sense.

 

The rest of your comment also doesn't really make sense to me, as you're arguing a point no one complained about, and you're putting words into someone else's (who exactly?) mouth. It sounds like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Dungeons, instead of strikes are still the same type of content in this case: instanced content where you have to group up (just 5 instead of 10 man). And no, we wouldn't have players complaining to get the optional amulet because the content you have to do for it is already optional. You don't have to do the instanced forced group content, as Anet already provided a way to complete the Return event by making one thing optional. So they already don't have to do a specific thing. That's what the thread is about in the first place: OP thanking Anet for making the content he doesn't want to play optional.

[Thank you, ANet, for making the Strike Mission optional]

5 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

It’s an MMO. You’re also obtaining what’s essentially a “free” legendary amulet as all you’re doing are achievements. 

There's nothing massively about instanced/forced group content, though. Multiplayer also doesn't necessarily mean coop. I'll give you online.

"It's an MMO" is honestly not a good or relevant argument to argue why certain content has to be done, as all MMOs also have all various types of content.

"Oh, you have to play solo/jp/harvesting/farming/housing/lifeskilling/jumping/PvP/WvW/RvR/raiding/dungeon/fashion/collection content?"  - "Of course, it's an MMO".

The legendary amulet is technically not free, as any new player that wants it will still need to buy all LS seasons, which is 1500g+.

[Anyone figure out how to make the stoneskin infusions cool?]

Eyes not being petrified makes the infusion look too goofy imo.
That’s the reason I haven‘t really tried to make it work.

[Legendary Weapon Variants Dec. 3]

I honestly think variants refers to the weapon types. So e.g. the axe is one variant, while staff is another.

I would be pleasantly surprised if there are color/form variations for each weapon type.

[Whats behind the decision to go with an oversaturated and blurry shung jea monastery map?]

8 hours ago, radda.8920 said:

 

A few hours ago, it was written:  discover one of the 3 new zones

I‘d still go with the 4 zone markers shown on the EoD page, where only the shing jea one is currently active. Maybe your eyes are playing tricks on you, or as Randulf mentioned, it was a typo.

Interestingly enough, massivelyOP states there‘ll be a Arenanet livestream on friday showing off the new zone with a gameplay preview: https://massivelyop.com/2021/10/06/guild-wars-2-teases-end-of-dragons-lush-shing-jea-zone-in-new-trailer/

So anyone that isn‘t afraid of ingame spoilers can join in to check if the grass is really greener in shing jea!

[Getting kicked out of a map after a crash feels bad]

Adding a grace period of 2-4 min to rejoin the same map id after leaving it via disconnect/logout would be great.

[About the Halloween jumping puzzle requirement...]

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

I'm mearly asking that given the choice to include as many people as they can by having the JP be its own thing, or excluding a lot of people, why did anet chose to exclude?

I wish you were about inclusivity  in all the other content that excludes a lot of people, yet you defended that content instead.

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Queen's gauntlet is its' own achievement,

Yeah, and these side halloween achievements are their own little achievements. And their reward is also comparable to the queen's gauntlet ones, a cosmetic mini-pet that isn't needed for any content.

They aren't even meta achievements like you originally said, which caused a whole lot of confusion.

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

This is a time based highly reactionary exclusively solo content without any help whatsoever or an alternative way of doing it.

Nothing you said as an example comes even close = not the same argument i'm making. 

Every other content type fits if you just are talking about accessability for people with disabilities in content. Content where your only way to beat it is being carried is not content accessible to players with disabilities. Do you just tell someone that lost his legs and wants to be a runner to let someone else run for him, while carrying him on his back? I'd say giving him prosthetics to be able to run is the way to go.

The same way you're saying others could carry you ingame, you could just let someone IRL without a disability help you beat that one JP. It just takes being human, after all. I bet Anet wouldn't act on that, seing as they've already let children beat it on their parent's account.

Saying "apples to oranges" to deflect is a poor tactic.

Moving the goalpost to "highly reactionary exclusively solo content without any help whatsoever" is a stretch, but even then Queen's gauntlet would still fit. It even has the comparable mini-pet reward of mini liadry.

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Anet had a choice here to include or exclude people based on previous information gathered throughout the years. They chose to exclude. Why?

It's disingenuous of me to use myself to express my opinion on the halloween JP?

What are you talking about? 

There's already a lot of achievements that can't be done by people with disabilities. Even some that can't be done by people without disabilities.

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

It's disingenuous of me to use myself to express my opinion on the halloween JP?

You've already stated that you'll be able to complete it. You're not part of the ones that can't complete that specific achievement.

3 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

I'm gonna do it, i'll eventually reach that first chest,

You were arguing that it is impossible for other people with disabilities to complete. So yes, it is weird to use them to push your argument. It was even weirder to call Anet disconnected from their community, suggesting that you speak for "the community" wants. You do not.

You speak for yourself.

Some may share your opinion, but please don't pretend that the community or all the people with disabilities share your sentiment.

Your sealioning is getting out of hand.

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

I'm also not having an opinion on the JP but on how Anet could have included as many people as they can but chose not to BY making the JP mandatory. After that, the JP opinion doesn't matter much.

Just like beating all the t1, t2 bosses in queen's gauntlet is necessary to reach liadry. After that, they don't matter much to get the mini in the end. They even added a t4 tier, after liadry. Not very inclusive if you go by completion rates.

 

I don't actually have an opinion on the JP itself. For all I care, it can be made easier, a version without timer, a version that teleports you to the end, removal of the achievement out of the chain to get the mini, an alternative way to get the mini. I'm fine with any change.

 

I just thought how ironic it is that you're actually only selectively for inclusivity, seemingly so for your own benefit, based on the first thing i've quoted in my earliest reply. And doing so in the guise of "the community".

I began with one of your quotes, and I'll end with one:

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

i'm not responding anymore 

 

[About the Halloween jumping puzzle requirement...]

You're just overreacting. Especially if you consider what you've said once about some other content in another thread:

On 3/26/2021 at 2:37 AM, Veprovina.4876 said:

But no, i don't see them changing anything because they're there to make people interested in those game modes.IF you want a specific armor, you do that mode. If you only play open world, well, you don't really need a legendary do you? Exotic is fine, there's nothing in overworld that requires balanced stats and infusions...

If you want a specific reward, you do that content. You don't really need the meta achievement, it just gives out a skin. There's no content that requires skins... (Stick to your own words! Else you'll sound like a hypocrite!)

Also given what the previous posters said, you don't even need the JP for the Meta achiev. So yes, you're overreacting and trying to hide behind the "Anet is disconnected from the community" shield.

[Quick easy fix for Vindicator]

10 hours ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Literally 2 loser nonames. Where is Asgeir?

I'd rather have Viktor & Archemorus. Asgeir is just a legendary liar 😉.

[Would you pay for a Realm Reborn Guild Wars 2?]

Just sounds like an inferior version to the current one, so no.

[Does abandoning modes and creating new similar modes with different names attract MMO players?]

Here's Anets reasioning behind creating Strikes as a new content mode:

"Strike missions are a way for us to look back and go, ‘Okay, we have the group that raids, and we have a group that says raids are either stigmatised, too difficult, there’s jerks in there who are elitist.’ There’s all these things, and we’d say, ‘No, no, no, we can show you a path to get to this content.’ We can show you the way that you can get better – that you can experience things that you didn’t necessarily think possible either because of preconceptions, or because of lack of time, availability, those types of things."

and

"The first ones being released are more of a bridge. But the opportunity is there. One of the questions we were asked was ‘Are there gonna be different difficulty tiers?’ In the things that we’re looking towards, especially either through achievements or other ways, we can’t forget about the raid players. Also, they won’t let us forget that they exist! But they are a hardcore group that really are passionate. They want challenge, they want things they haven’t seen before. This is an opportunity for us to find ways to service one tier and potentially service the hardcore audience that is already there."

- Mike Zadorojny, former Game Director, 2019

[For those that played the Beta Rev. Which Expec feel the nicest ?]

Herald and Vindicator (not the alliance legend) felt best to me.

Renegade just has the best stats, never liked it myself.

[Any chance of new maps for EoD?]

There hasn't been any indication of it, but it would be nice.

[A suggestion for after End of Dragons... to end the Living World]

Sounds like a bad suggestion to me.

[About rewards]

1 minute ago, yann.1946 said:

Honestly , This explains why you think what you think. But this is so demonstrably false its hard to engage with.

Its beside the point because im not making an argument from singular experience. Im making a point about motivation to play games in general.

Ok, seems we‘re done here then, since you didn‘t actually want a discussion and aren‘t open to any arguments but your own ones.

[About rewards]

Just now, yann.1946 said:

i havent , ill explain why.

Exactly for as long as its fun for them. The whole point i am making is that time it is fun for them gets extended by adding rewards. Do you disagree with that statement?

Thus the moment they have gotten the rewards their will be people who are in the zone where they would enjoyed the content with rewards to chase but not anymore without them. So we will so a drop in players.

Im not disagreeing with that, but thats also completely beside the point im making.

If content is fun, content will be played. Adding rewards doesn‘t extend the time content is fun. If content is only done due to the rewards and only them and then left immediately it is just bad content. Content that is fun will still be played even after all the rewards have been gained.

So yes, content will be dropped by some once the rewards have been earned, because the content strictly wasn‘t fun in the first place. It doesn‘t extend the time content is fun, it just extends the tediousness because players feel the need to play content they don‘t enjoy because of how rewarding it is.

My last bit isn‘t besides the point, but actually exactly answers your point about content being played indefinately if it is fun. WC3 is fun for those players, so they keep playing it today, 19 years after the game released.

[About rewards]

Just now, yann.1946 said:

Im pretty baffled tbh, that for some reason you seem to argue that everyone will just play whathever they enjoy indefinitly and apperently never get bored from it. Do you honestly believe that is true?

It is indeed baffling how you moved the goal post from:

„It is therefore normal that people in general stop playing content ones they got the rewards they want“

to

„everyone will just play whathever they enjoy indefinitly and apperently never get bored from it“

But yes, people will play anything even without a reward if it is fun, for as long as it is fun to them. Some people have been playing WC3 since the beginning in 2002 and are still having fun today, 19 years later (even though reforged was a miss).

 

[About rewards]

6 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

People quit these gamemodes all the time. what are you talking about.

Honestly im not familiar with those games, but as far as i know fortnite has a season system where they give different cosmetics rewards to get people to play those seasons.

I have not played those games, but tbh i now noone who plays these games indefinitly. Even the most replayable roguelikes.

Those who actually enjoy the gamemode stay for the gamemode. See any of the WvWers that stick to it because it is fun, even though they already have everything and are stacking skirmish tickets left and right. So what are you talking about?
 

Figures you‘re not familiar with the rest of the games. Especially those players play to have fun and not for a reward.

[About rewards]

16 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

 Or do you think that people will just keep playing the same thing over and over indefinetly? 

Yes, if it is fun to them.

Examples in GW2: WvW, PvP

Examples in other games that focus on PvP: Summoner‘s Rift, ARAM, CSGO/Valorant/OW matches, Fortnite/BRs etc.

Examples in other games that focus on PvE: 7 Days to Die, any roguelike like binding of isaac/STS, etc.

[Who would you like to see as a Legend ?]

Varesh Ossa

Svanir

Emissaries

[no one plays raids]

51 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

 

The story part was an example ^^. And its not subjective, Plot holes in the story are visible even to laymen like me.

And because of the easy-mode. It's not just about an easy mode. If an easy mode were so simple, why would there be strikes and not simply raids in easy mode? With the "yourselves" I meant that, for me personally, gw2 consists of 97% PVE content. 1% instanced content like raids and fractals, 1% WVW and their modies and the same with PVP. I say it this way to make it easier for me since English is not my main language ^^.
When you don't like this, you don't have to answer. HF. And it is about selfishness. Because I was talking about Legy-Armor. The main topic of these discussions.
Because let's face it, people here in these disscusion don't want easy mode. They want an easy way to Legy-Armor, if you've read most of this thread and the several others that exist here.

And you say it yourself. Strikes are also not really played much. Do you think an easy mode to the raids would have then, or would change anything today?

Raids, PVP, WVW. These are all niche-content. And the people who always complain about it here in the forum are only about the rewards. They want the rewards, but don't want to play the content for them.

Because yes, there are not as many as in PVE, but raids are played.So active that even newcomers nowadays still find connection. So active that I with 0 LI a few months ago or so  could work my way up to my current 101 LI and that with weeks where I have not raided. So active that a friend of mine who is absolutely casual and hardly brings class understanding and dmg, could accumulate some LI because she just wanted to see the raids and the story behind them.

The story part is entirely subjective. It's a pity you can't seem to differentiate between your opinion and actuality.

There's no easy mode, because it would take developement time from other stuff, like for example strikes. Andrew Gray Mike Z already said so in an interview, the same one were he talks about the average player doing 10x less damage.

Your percentage numbers are made up and subjective, I already got that. I'm just not sure how made up numbers and percentages help any argument. English is also not my main language.

If it were noly about legendary armour, then OP would also have wanted a change to WvW and PvP. He specifically talked about raids. Raids are the main topic of these discussions. But you didn't even want to discuss, you wanted to scapegoat and blame some boogeyman you called "PvE-casuals" from the start. That's not constructive. So I'm going to give your quote back to you: "When you don't like this, you don't have to answer. HF."

Would an easy mode today help raids? Probably not, since Anet is already going all out on strikes as their replacement, as seen from the EoD preview. Raids are on the back-burner, if not dead like dungeons. In my opinion it is too late for raids. Anet is now trying the same thing they did with Fractals and dungeons: Leave raids for dead, give EoD strikes varying difficulty levels.

Raids are niche instanced PvE-content. PvP has a low playerbase, just like in any other MMORPG. Anet sees WvW as a neglected cornerstone of the game. That's why they're giving it more attention at the moment with alliances, reward reworks etc.. The people complaining about PvP and WvW mostly complain about balance & neglect and the complains come from mostly their respective population. I don't really see people complaining because they want the legendary backpieces from WvW and PvP, so your point is moot.

 

Yeah, raids are played by an incredibly small community. Anet themselves acknowledge that. They also acknowledge that raids aren't accessible to a lot of players. That's why they created strikes. That's why they're planning to give strikes varying difficulties in EoD. We've already talked about that. Your anectode about carrying a friend doesn't change that the average player doesn't touch raids at all. So no, it's not about selfishment. And if it were, I'd still call it less selfish than wanting more content of a type that can't even pay for itself and therefore has to take funds of every other gamemode.

 

Edit: I'd say this will be my last post on this topic. The discussion doesn't seem to advance due to obvious bias, subjectiveness and anecdotes and is just as unconstructive as your first post on this topic, where you called out your boogeyman/scapegoat.

 

52 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Wants rewards to be exclusive to 5% of the player base.

Calls other people selfish.

Funny, isn't it? Also wants content being developed that doesn't pay for itself. So the other gamemodes have to carry raids on their shoulders.