SoV.5139

SB, Thieves, stealth, are all complaints about roamers being able to pick people off one at a time with no consequences. FB/scourge are blob specs. Its like comparing a single opponent combat sport like MMA to NFL football.

Yes, please make it do zero so we can abuse the heck out of it and cc people from stealth.

Yeah, balogna, just look at..../looks at mesmer greatswordnevermind youre right. :pensive: Arcane trickster with scepter would be awesome. Use Magic Device (UMD) as a skill type for the new elite.

Data mine to aggregate the least used skills.Add stability to them - doesnt have to be alot, but viable.

I trot mine out from time to time when I want to support our havoc sized group, but I still want to do some DPS if needed.

Artificer spec (think Arcanotechnician from D&D)Short bowNew rune arm weapon kit for elite skillThe exotic bow you get for mastery should be a compound with gears and pulleys, all mechanical looking.

I trotted my old druid out for a bit of fun the last few days. I noticed I do as much group healing on my holosmith in marauders and more condi cleansing as well. CA kit needs a rework to bring it in line with engi heal kit with the same investment.

And then Anet comes and balances classes based on some statistics. Meanwhile rangers (pve/pvp and since pof in roaming), guards and warrs (all modes) are played by potato players and constantly strong for years, where eles (all modes) and thieves (pvp/wvw) require actual combat and game knowledge so your "average" ele/thief is as skilled as pro ranger/war/guard. Meaning that in order to be a useful ele, you have to play like god, and if you do that, you perform too good - NERF (been a thing in pve since HoT basically). So in order for an average ele to perform as well as average r/g/w, those classes need to be strong by default. At least they have some standards when it comes to balancing necros because that would be a monstrosity otherwise. It also doesn't surprise me how holo hasn't been touched since PoF because it dumbed down the whole class below necro levels. And when potatoes play the class it doesn't matter how strong that class actually is, the only thing that matters is how well they perform. The only thing I don't understand is why mesmer was so OP literally everywhere since HoT (4 whole years at least) and condi mesmer could literally be played blindfolded and still be extremely successful. Because mesmer is ANet's baby. Its the equivalent of an EQ1 bard. When it ever does appear to be some parity its not because they nerfed it, but because they add so much to other classes that they catch up relatively to be as OP, but in some cases require less skill floor. AKA the gimmick builds.

Soulbeasts are a gimmick build with a huge burst that requires minimal APM. Mirage has a few full roaming builds, which while having a higher skill floor, allow for delivering equally high bursts while even being more unfair in that it can do so while being invulnerable for the period of time it does this. The downside is the mesmer cant be played by someone with potatoes for hands like the soulbeast can. If it could, there would be multiplicitively more mirages than soulbeasts, rather than just a few more.

The ones I see are running a minimal effort daily check list. I dont see any seriously trying to compete. If the daily is 2 camps, a vet creature, and a tower cap, thats where I see the solo minion-mancers the most.

This. In large part due to wall bombing, and the way targeting makes it so you need to be on the lip of a wall in order to hit people below with most weapon skills. There should be more of an advantage for the defender.

I would love vanilla gw2 WvW. The old bunker meta people shouted down before they left was far better than this always-crit-glass-but-invuln-so-i-can-still-tank META we have today.

I play when disposable time allows...

I think mount salt is catching up.

I support making it non stack-able, which would make it non-perma.

No, the first step is to get rid of the bunker meta. Then once bunker is out of flavor, we will have period of glass, then everyone will resort to bruiser builds instead of glass, and then we will have more balanced game play. Pure dps builds today are a symptom of heavy tank/healers like FB and endless sustain builds like scrapper etc. The first ERROR was to get rid of the bunker META. People complain alot more about being bursted down before they can see their opponent than they ever did when fights actually lasted a while and cooldown management was actually a skill needed to play GW2 in any PVP mode. Do you remember what it was like? Were you really there? Cus the bunker meta was literally just who got to the point first. Class stacking was a thing. Chronomancers were king, could never die. It was one of the reasons spvp "esports" failed so hard right at launch, because nobody wanted to take a game like that seriously. It wasn't about cooldown management. You just lived forever regardless of what happened. There were bunker buster builds in that META too. I played two of them. From the posts I am seeing from people who hated that era, I am gathering that folks love a one dimensional META, just not that particular one dimensional META. I will take that era over this era any time however. It did require more skill, and the gimmick/meme builds were easily countered (more easily than they are countered today with all the OP ADC)

No, the first step is to get rid of the bunker meta. Then once bunker is out of flavor, we will have period of glass, then everyone will resort to bruiser builds instead of glass, and then we will have more balanced game play. Pure dps builds today are a symptom of heavy tank/healers like FB and endless sustain builds like scrapper etc. The first ERROR was to get rid of the bunker META. People complain alot more about being bursted down before they can see their opponent than they ever did when fights actually lasted a while and cooldown management was actually a skill needed to play GW2 in any PVP mode. Do you remember what it was like? Were you really there? Cus the bunker meta was literally just who got to the point first. Class stacking was a thing. Chronomancers were king, could never die. It was one of the reasons spvp "esports" failed so hard right at launch, because nobody wanted to take a game like that seriously. It wasn't about cooldown management. You just lived forever regardless of what happened. Esports failed cause the game's PvP wasnt interesting to watch. No one really knew what the actual heck was going on outside those who actually played the game, not to mention conquest is not a fun mode to actually watch. There was nothing fun about watching a match hit its end timer with minimal points scored. (Bunker meta).There were bunker buster builds in that META too. While I am aware that there were folks who try to revise history and claim they didnt exist, that doesnt negate the fact that they did exist, but required some skill to bust bunkers with. Its likely far easier to defeat on the forums what cant be immediately defeated in game however. When eSports failed, alot of the champion level players from previous eras moved on. They made videos indicating their reasons for doing so, so there is no revisionist history applicable here.

really? i dont recall many people defending DE, felt pretty lonely at that, yet i dont complain about ranger here. DE is still stronger. but i see quite some rangers here that did complain about deadeye and now try their hardest to deal with the complains. i only wish if they do change something about ranger, that they do not provide some cheap bandaids like they did with DE. from a powerlevel sic em rangers are not too strong, yet if their playstyle is deemed an issue, one needs to provide changes that improve gameplay as and against it, could actually result in an overall buff to ranger. All kinds of people were defending DE hand over fist, even after the one shot no downstate trololol week that happened shortly after its buff. As for glass sic-em soulbeast, I win as many times as I lose to them. It definitely is a gimmicky meme build which many play as a one trick pony and when that trick doesnt work they die just as quickly as those they burst down.

No, the first step is to get rid of the bunker meta. Then once bunker is out of flavor, we will have period of glass, then everyone will resort to bruiser builds instead of glass, and then we will have more balanced game play. Pure dps builds today are a symptom of heavy tank/healers like FB and endless sustain builds like scrapper etc. The first ERROR was to get rid of the bunker META. People complain alot more about being bursted down before they can see their opponent than they ever did when fights actually lasted a while and cooldown management was actually a skill needed to play GW2 in any PVP mode.

Lots of overlap in the folks who complain about rangers burst DPS now, but defended DE hand over fist in the past. Shouldnt have lobbied to get rid of the bunker META so hard that we ended up in a smurf/gimmick/meme/munchkin META.

This does not belong on the list. WvW is a server vs server gamemode. If I see someone from an enemy server and want to attack them then that is just part of the gamemode. If the duel takes place in "duel specific areas" like obsidian sanctum and the arena in EoTM then sure but not in arbitary dueling spots made up by players. What's next? Telling roleplayers to stop their fantasy acts in PvE? Who are you to dictate how people should play? If crashing into a dueling spot and sucking the fun out of everyone isn't a toxic behavior, I don't know what it is.Asking people not to PVE in a PVE zone is a bit different than being in a mass PVP area using it for an entirely different purpose than what the designers intended. I dont typically roll over known duelers with a blob, but they have to understand its gonna happen from time to time in a mass PVP mode map.

The salt does not get responded to. Rather, it gets displayed in the trophy case.

Forumites shouted down the previous bunker META using "unskilled play" as their excuse, and it was replaced by gimmicky burst-before-they-can-react builds which take even less skill, with a side order of just as gimmicky high-mobility-escape-reset-repeat rotations, negating any penalty for initiating and failing against those who were able to counter a high damage burst in time. As far as how to handle it? Just take the W every time someone's burst fails and they immediately hit their escape rotations, and move off before they attempt again.They will either have to cede the fight completely, or blow mobility cool downs to catch up to you.

Imagine this: You and your opponent are 600 range away from each other, both mounted. You want to kill them. They want to kill you. You're both running a generic unspecified build (has damage, CC, sustain, mobility). Whoever initiates is at a disadvantage because you need to dismount yourself to start attacking them. This means you are throwing away 10k of health, 3 dodges, and a ton of mobility. Your opponent can now kite and dodge while you waste your damage and mobility skills trying to dismount them. When you get close to dismounting them, they dismount themselves and start the fight fresh, while your skills are on cooldown having not done any damage to their actual health. The one who stayed on their mount is playing the mode correctly. When they give us the ability to dismount other players from our own mount the gankers will have their daddys records back. When I want fair isolated 1v1s I play PVP. then you be playing PvP wrong because that's what duelling servers are for. Dismounting skills would also heavily favour zergs and numbers over solo roaming gankers.please stop with this ganksters paradise memes. its complete dribble. Nope. I play the modes correctly - both PVP and WVW. Those who refuse to play the modes correctly are the ones asking for the changes to favor their own playstyle at the expense of others - in a game that already has a mode far more similar to what they are asking for - its just not the one they are trying to get changed. Stop complaining that football needs to be more like basketball, and just go to the part of the park with the basketball court on it. if you pvp for duels, then you ARE playing it wrong.PvP is a team game of 5 people centered around holding nodes. and again... please stop with the ganksters paradise meme dribble. Its actually quite concerning how little thought is put forward. Its also concerning that WvW is no longer an open world pvp map and that pvp is for dueling.like, when did that happen?To roam is to play WvW wrong and to duel during pvp matches is playing it right?No wonder both game modes are spinning in the toilet. Youre right, it is concerning indeed. For instance: WVW is not dueling mode. Sure you can roam, but people playing the mode correctly will escape you when they arent looking for 1v1s, or zerg roll you. This is what happens when you get on the football field with basketball gear. You dont get to play iso-ball there. That gets played on the basketball court. This park has one of those, so why demand the football field be changed to a basketball court as well? Anyway, your argument is a strawman, as I never stated I like to duel in PVP matches. Since you cannot address the real argument you had to make this "dueling" stuff up in order to have something to oppose. I do PVP when I want more isolated 1v1s, where everyone else is playing a PVP optimized build (rather than chasing group support builds who are NOT looking for 1v1 combat across maps). While I can get ganked there, its not always strategically sound for the other team to do so as they leave points open. This is the mode you want to play if you want smaller fights to matter. Not WVW. Lets have a look here."When I want fair isolated 1v1s I play PVP." - Sov"then you be playing PvP wrong because that's what duelling servers are for." - Sephiroth"Nope. I play the modes correctly - both PVP and WVW" - Sov You don't even know the meaning of the words you're using.You're talking about football fields and junk. You can't even put together an analogy that makes sense or is relevant.Strait up ridiculous, seriously. As I said, no wonder both game modes are spinning in the toilet.WvW is a mode that caters to all open world PvP. (or has for 6 years anyway)PvP matches are 5 players, no one duels in the matches (unless they are below silver) because there are dueling servers for that. You literally cant tell people they are playing open world PvP wrong, its like telling people they are doing open world PvE wrong.Youre trying to enforce your ways upon everyone else.. EDiT: looks like quite a few people have pointed this out to you. and they are all simply word smithing and term parsing to avoid addressing what cant be addressed - people playing the mode incorrectly are the ones complaining. They tried to dribble in and score but got tackled by multiple other players, then demanded a foul be called, then were told this is legal on the football field. Go to the basketball court if you want to play iso ball. You describe yourself a lot. If you cant focus on the conversation its fine, maybe you should try a sports forum. The only complaints I see are directed at people suggestions towards balanced game play. Such comments are as follows:"Boohoo you cant kill anyone anymore""If you roam you play WvW wrong""If you kill people you play WvW wrong""Ganking doesnt belong in WvW"... and so forth... The force is straw(man) with this one - as yet again I said none of those. You forgot to address my actual position here: "youre playing the mode wrong, and the people you demand changes for are playing the mode correctly." Actually you didnt forget it, youre intentionally talking past it, due to not being able to address it without the "I hate that people can escape me" argument leaking like a sieve. Not that they werent able to escape you before, but they just have another convenience mechanism to use to do it with. The other strawman I see alot in these threads is "the way I play = skill but the way you play = unskilled." Typically when this is refuted with "play the mode correctly" (or at the very least stop complaining about how those playing the mode correctly have the upper hand) - this is when people trying to get the mode changed to fit their needs at the expense of others begin grasping for a weaker (strawman) argument to oppose. This is why none of these topics are discussed through to completion. The misrepresentation by those whose position ran out of ammo gets to the point where they have to make stuff up in order to disagree with it. So instead of one or two somewhat longer discussions, the forum will see 25 shorter discussions on the same topic strewn about over 6 months of time, none of them ending in discussions of the same topic the thread was started about. One person actually did make a semi-solid point by saying if both people wanted the fight the one who dismounts first is at a disadvantage, but that is also easily refuted by stating that if they both wanted the fight they can both dismount. I can't respond to somebody who doesn't know the point they're trying to get across and sits there throwing assumptions and accusations at me which aren't true. (one look at the main page and you'll see me asking for more mount cosmetics.. FOR EXAMPLE)It's also extremely difficult to communicate with someone that accuses me of doing exactly what they're doing, it actually hurts my head if I put any thought into it. Apologies for the inconvenience but for those reasons this conversation between us is over. The post you quoted literally had my premise posted in it. You just cant directly address it without poking all sorts of holes in your own argument. Accusations of not knowing what I'm trying to get at are greatly exaggerated.

Imagine this: You and your opponent are 600 range away from each other, both mounted. You want to kill them. They want to kill you. You're both running a generic unspecified build (has damage, CC, sustain, mobility). Whoever initiates is at a disadvantage because you need to dismount yourself to start attacking them. This means you are throwing away 10k of health, 3 dodges, and a ton of mobility. Your opponent can now kite and dodge while you waste your damage and mobility skills trying to dismount them. When you get close to dismounting them, they dismount themselves and start the fight fresh, while your skills are on cooldown having not done any damage to their actual health. The one who stayed on their mount is playing the mode correctly. When they give us the ability to dismount other players from our own mount the gankers will have their daddys records back. When I want fair isolated 1v1s I play PVP. then you be playing PvP wrong because that's what duelling servers are for. Dismounting skills would also heavily favour zergs and numbers over solo roaming gankers.please stop with this ganksters paradise memes. its complete dribble. Nope. I play the modes correctly - both PVP and WVW. Those who refuse to play the modes correctly are the ones asking for the changes to favor their own playstyle at the expense of others - in a game that already has a mode far more similar to what they are asking for - its just not the one they are trying to get changed. Stop complaining that football needs to be more like basketball, and just go to the part of the park with the basketball court on it. if you pvp for duels, then you ARE playing it wrong.PvP is a team game of 5 people centered around holding nodes. and again... please stop with the ganksters paradise meme dribble. Its actually quite concerning how little thought is put forward. Its also concerning that WvW is no longer an open world pvp map and that pvp is for dueling.like, when did that happen?To roam is to play WvW wrong and to duel during pvp matches is playing it right?No wonder both game modes are spinning in the toilet. Youre right, it is concerning indeed. For instance: WVW is not dueling mode. Sure you can roam, but people playing the mode correctly will escape you when they arent looking for 1v1s, or zerg roll you. This is what happens when you get on the football field with basketball gear. You dont get to play iso-ball there. That gets played on the basketball court. This park has one of those, so why demand the football field be changed to a basketball court as well? Anyway, your argument is a strawman, as I never stated I like to duel in PVP matches. Since you cannot address the real argument you had to make this "dueling" stuff up in order to have something to oppose. I do PVP when I want more isolated 1v1s, where everyone else is playing a PVP optimized build (rather than chasing group support builds who are NOT looking for 1v1 combat across maps). While I can get ganked there, its not always strategically sound for the other team to do so as they leave points open. This is the mode you want to play if you want smaller fights to matter. Not WVW. Lets have a look here."When I want fair isolated 1v1s I play PVP." - Sov"then you be playing PvP wrong because that's what duelling servers are for." - Sephiroth"Nope. I play the modes correctly - both PVP and WVW" - Sov You don't even know the meaning of the words you're using.You're talking about football fields and junk. You can't even put together an analogy that makes sense or is relevant.Strait up ridiculous, seriously. As I said, no wonder both game modes are spinning in the toilet.WvW is a mode that caters to all open world PvP. (or has for 6 years anyway)PvP matches are 5 players, no one duels in the matches (unless they are below silver) because there are dueling servers for that. You literally cant tell people they are playing open world PvP wrong, its like telling people they are doing open world PvE wrong.Youre trying to enforce your ways upon everyone else.. EDiT: looks like quite a few people have pointed this out to you. and they are all simply word smithing and term parsing to avoid addressing what cant be addressed - people playing the mode incorrectly are the ones complaining. They tried to dribble in and score but got tackled by multiple other players, then demanded a foul be called, then were told this is legal on the football field. Go to the basketball court if you want to play iso ball. You describe yourself a lot. If you cant focus on the conversation its fine, maybe you should try a sports forum. The only complaints I see are directed at people suggestions towards balanced game play. Such comments are as follows:"Boohoo you cant kill anyone anymore""If you roam you play WvW wrong""If you kill people you play WvW wrong""Ganking doesnt belong in WvW"... and so forth... The force is straw(man) with this one - as yet again I said none of those. You forgot to address my actual position here: "youre playing the mode wrong, and the people you demand changes for are playing the mode correctly." Actually you didnt forget it, youre intentionally talking past it, due to not being able to address it without the "I hate that people can escape me" argument leaking like a sieve. Not that they werent able to escape you before, but they just have another convenience mechanism to use to do it with. The other strawman I see alot in these threads is "the way I play = skill but the way you play = unskilled." Typically when this is refuted with "play the mode correctly" (or at the very least stop complaining about how those playing the mode correctly have the upper hand) - this is when people trying to get the mode changed to fit their needs at the expense of others begin grasping for a weaker (strawman) argument to oppose. This is why none of these topics are discussed through to completion. The misrepresentation by those whose position ran out of ammo gets to the point where they have to make stuff up in order to disagree with it. So instead of one or two somewhat longer discussions, the forum will see 25 shorter discussions on the same topic strewn about over 6 months of time, none of them ending in discussions of the same topic the thread was started about. One person actually did make a semi-solid point by saying if both people wanted the fight the one who dismounts first is at a disadvantage, but that is also easily refuted by stating that if they both wanted the fight they can both dismount.