Equinox.1463

My last paragraph is hypothetical, yes, but not that far from being realistic, under my impressions after seeing the game do averagely well on Twitch, YouTube and Reddit (lol). edit: clarity

Sorry for the delay in response! I kind of forgot about the thread, although I'm glad others agree with me. Yup - I figured it out quite late in my gameplay too, when somebody with experience told me exactly what was going on with the training AIs. They can simply apply the physics of PvP maps to HotM ("simply" lol) Me, a designer who pitches daily: Actually, to this day, I've seen some of the biggest money sinks enjoy PvP a lot - outside its obvious flaws, it's quite an enjoyable game mode! ultimately, these sharks could sink in even more of their money because of such events in the game mode, maybe, and we could see an uprise in activity due to an increase in visibility. Furthermore, while immediate money might not be currently on PvP's menu, I'm also certain a revamp of this map could be mediatized and talked about a lot by those whales that spent tens to hundreds of thousand on a game - they don't flaunt but you (hypothetical, my bad) don't need to be massive about your money for it to be something that others notice. I'm certain these sharks would find ways to increase the game mode's population too if the revamp is successful. Not only would visibility on Twitch be massively increased at least for a period, mediatization all across social medias about this big map revamp could make the game mode look viable - and interesting - to many others who are just waiting for the right signs of life from a decade old MMORPG that would gladly hop in. In this day of modernity where the average whale or shark of a younger generation has not only time, but also enjoys MMORPG video games, such consequences are inevitable. At least their revenue stream from the Black Lion Gem Store would see increase in revenue for a short time after the revamp, even longer if done right. I feel like ArenaNet is doing things right nowadays...

Yes! And a bigger/different FFA could also muster a better community.

Or, and hear me out, this very simple solution: if you don't leave your base for a minute, you're automatically disconnected and your team is given no punishment.

The current PvP hub map is obsolete. At best, its islands give traders a simple place to Black Lion their way into profits, or said islands will sometimes sprout a useful conversation about game mechanics. At worst though, on the daily, you'll see active trolling, voluntary harassment, and all kinds of online obscenities usually punishable with an IP ban, all allowed in this hot mess of a map that has nothing anymore sticking its components together. Let's change this. Let's create a map, together, that would fundamentally make sense vis-à-vis Conquest since ArenaNet hasn't done so in many years and may need some inspiration to make some more out of an obsolete, broken map brimming with potential for big reveals. This post will ignore Stronghold because I've not had enough experience in that substratum of Gw2 PvP. Firstly, the PvP map is the first introduction to this game mode. A game mode that can literally compete with the best MMO titles in the world, and yet most, if not everything in the PvP introduction map fundamentally differs from what Conquest PvP is. One of the many culprits here is the Mastery System being fully usable in a map that fundamentally shouldn't use it. Being able to use mounts sure is practical, but the running mastery messes with people's expectations of how you actually run in a game. Removing all Masteries - even gliding - would ultimately make more sense in the PvP hub's map to decrease misunderstandings between Conquest, WvW, and PvE. Since it's introducing itself as one of the most agreed-upon toxicity-brewing areas of the entire game, the Free for All arena should also be destroyed and rebuilt as ArenaNet has done in the past. The sheer volume of non-sense said, done, acted upon, and overall created in this stew of egos should be enough of an argument by itself, but for the sake of it, I'll go ahead and add that something better could have been done eons ago using Private Arenas. The island being recycled into a Custom Arena one would thematically make more sense and would allow players to enjoy real-time PvP without the interference of Top Rankers being bored, random people harassing, and without nearly as much toxicity generated around a TEAM-based game mode. On this new island, NPCs could be introduced with guides created by the players, for the players, making the learning curve in PvP that much smoother. Websites like Guildjen and MetaBattle are amazing hubs for advanced mechanics and rotation decision-making knowledge and build suggestions, but the basics of this game mode - like how many points you generate per death, or per point captured - should have NPCs teaching those because essentials should be taught linearly in a game. No singular person has taken the time to read the window pop-up at the start of a game, since it is intrusive at best. Most players (understanding from a UX perspective) will close the window immediately without concern for its content because "automatic isn't organic," and if they require information they'd rather have to click something to access it than have it spit at them in the middle of a screen. This change would help focus the PvP player base into creating builds made for Conquest, and not for trolling in an area where your base stats are dependent on the time you have spent playing Gw2. The current Bots island is too small for peak hours and has players fighting alongside each other against untrained robots that are incorrectly programmed. Dodging is called "block" and happens while immobilized or crowd controlled, even if the model itself is not moving. The AI is literally the worse in the game, with no advanced pathing whatsoever being present in their trajectories. Those robotic AIs don't use skills in proper order - even though they could be reprogrammed easily - and will end themselves for no apparent reason. They also teach players to always press 1 or 2 in downstate, while spacing skills out when fighting, with no awareness of self-healing, etc, all while using the wrong trait combinations. The list goes on. The island could get to twice its size, with more, smarter AIs, more Chieftain Utaheins and Svanirs, and more golems while also being the hub for Top Rankers - even enabling ArenaNet to expand on their "private hub" for said Top Rankers with more functionalities and more accessibility features and possibly letting that "private hub" have its personal free-for-all arena for actual top rankers - and it wouldn't need to have a single new texture or item created for it. Concluding this, I realize that no small effort is required to revamp a map, and I do not believe I've seen it done before, but for the greater good of the game, I believe a new PvP hub map is needed, one that reflects what is Conquest in Gw2 truly. (This post was written with a sensationalistic approach)

1. Deactivate Team, Say, Emoji, and Map chats. A competent player in a match will find ways to communicate meaningfully in other means (specific pings on the map, numerical showing how many enemies are on the map). 2. Don't go in the FFA. It is a toxic mess of people who truly need help. For 200g you can get a private server - or you can hop in any particular one and duel in there. You will learn so much more from fighting in actual Conquest maps. 3. Deactivate #1's chats - I can't stress this enough. The toxicity in games may feel unreal if you read chats, so trust me when I say, after 5 years of PvP, it's much more efficient to communicate on the minimap directly. People might get confused but we humans adapt surprisingly fast to confusing scribbles on a map ^^ You can replace the chatter dialogue with combat numerical by selecting the "combat" item in the chat creation menu. (It's shift or ctrl and left or right click, tbh I do it by habit now so I really don't remember my key binds for it XD) 4. Not really another point, but I'd love to see the FFA removed. Its whole existence makes no sense in the current state of the gamemode since heck, even when you're having a duel and no one is harassing you, there's always that one monthly winner going around activating waves, fire paths, and Chieftain Utahein and Svanir (they're usually nice enough to stop when you ask them, but knowing where they are in the first place isn't even common knowledge). Add to that that players who've maxed out the Commander's masteries have an insane advantage over other players because they PASSIVELY WILL RUN FASTER... Finally, the FFA is probably where the most toxicity is brewed because of your aforementioned reasons - and I'm not one to say I haven't fallen into that trap because I've been toxic my fair share of times in there. I,d love it if they could replace the FFA with a Private Arena selection island that explains the trope of both Conquest and Private Arenas; it would make so much more sense. (I want scrims okay) And I want to thank you for your honesty about the veterans of this game mode. I agree that I've rarely come across one who's kind when they feel wronged - myself included.

I can feel that haha Another one I tend to say often is "we don't need 3 caps, they have a thief, focus on 2 caps" and it is bizarre. I thought it was general knowledge! Especially if the thief can two-skill you to downstate.

Am I the only one who remembers stun on MoD? Because even then, Mesmers weren't that strong. The mantra can only be cast once each who-know how many seconds, or they have to cast a super long animation that takes forever to finish, to gain access to it again. To me, the issue here is the lack of clarity that you just got dazed - although the skill sound is everything I need personally I'm also an ex mesmer main - but you can still dodge and run away (kite). It is unreactive on your side and superreactive on the mesmer's side, meaning that unless they specifically get the daze on your heal constantly (which then, you're facing a good mesmer, and you're probably good yourself) it will be used elsewhere and then your problem becomes non-existent. Sure, in 1v1s, Mirages are strong, but in no way is it because of MoD! The pressure they gain from you panic-pressing your buttons while dazed and thus not moving (and getting tormented to death) is probably much more of a factor to your problem with the skill.

1. Make custom games actually useful and enjoyable for both the owner and the players. This will make it a lot easier for Server Moderators to do anything at all in the custom arena maps. Currently, you can't easily swap a player in between teams or in/out of spectator mode. I'd like to see commands like /swap @usernamesomething red or /join @usernamesomething blue than requesting for the individual to open their game window browser (usually unbinded) and have them do it themselves. Continuing on improving custom arenas, I do NOT understand why they are the last window in the PvP Panel browser. From a UX perspective that entails it's the least important of their features... 2. Remove Free For All Arena and make it an instance-generation portal where you can either go in 1v1 or go fight your pre-made party. That's significantly big in scope, although it's a lot easier in my mind - use the same map, and make the portal door the portal, but instead of being able to jump in the FFA, you'd join an instance with either your party or other solo players. This would remove so much of the cannibalism our PvP community goes through. Newer players (I'd assume they usually are in groups) would be able to play against their party members without interference, effectively letting them learn in peace, while those who want to spend time hitting and mashing their keyboard with their forehead could go ahead and do that in another instance. The population may be low but I don't believe that would break an already quite bad system. 3. Honestly, rework the ranking system. Currently, when you're half-decent, you have to play your mind out to quite literally have a close match. This wouldn't bother me - after all, it is ranked - but risk-reward is currently quite literally not worth it since you will have bad players on either team because the matchmaker tries to make small queues. Reworking a system that never worked would mean shattering it from its core though, and I really don't think ANet cares enough about PvP to gift us a new system that isn't sus in its pairing. edit: changed wording

I agree with you ^^ In general Scourge does deserve some love.

Scourge had an unfortunate event of nerfs, but I'm not complaining not seeing them in PvP when they've dominated the meta for the many years before their nerfs shot their potential down to hell and even under. And the buffs to core necro are indirect buffs to Scourge? Ish?

I've hardly seen a balance update thread be received well, but the lack of appreciation everyone shows this specific one is concerning. I'm a PvP Bladesworn hardstuck gold that loves to duel mid and high platinum players because it's fun to do so, so do take my word with a grain of salt. 1; Catalyst received way more than a slap on the wrist. People don't understand that Catalyst was using weakness and blindness to their advantage to force resources over their opponents extremely fast or be "one-shot". Now, that's basically gone. More than 40% of their blindness and weakness uptime have been cut (don't take my math literally here). 2; For what it's worth, the buffs they gave to EVERY other class is a surprising change in balance direction after the few years where everything got nerfed down to unplayable levels but a select max-min builds, and it is refreshing. I'm intrigued at what fine-tuning will be brought forth by the balance team moving forward as this balance patch is pivotal in (at least PvP.s) meta. Keep the snowball moving forward ^^ 3; And Roy, for the record, please organize the cameras differently next time! (I'm simply joking) EDIT: Can we make gunsaber mode stowable? It's the only elite mechanic that can't be stowed I believe. At least Holosmith (closest thing to it) can stow their weapon casts, whereas you can't using Gunsaber.

Nothing productive to add personally. I just wanted to underline the phrase, "so people can get beat up by cassowaries," since its very iconic of what happens when you fight back as a Moa!

I'd have to agree. The Catalyst's ability to "dance on aoe is quite unprecendented. The aoe's also proc any type of single damage mitigation in a near constant basis - making it impossible to use aegis proactively and having to instead use it for that split second lightning animation. I think that superspeed is the problem though. It needs a speed nerf as right any Superspeed acquiring spec can do quite well because, to take what you said, they can dance very well. I'd argue that swiftness and superspeed are the problem that causes a lot of headaches right now. Diminishing their speed bonuses could be harsh but needed to bring down the overall mobility spurge around the Mists right now. (lol, the "mists" mean the PvP section of the game)

Well, to be fair, you didn't read my post much either - as I was questionning the pertinence of your comment from a World versus World sttandpoint. But we do agree that Catalyst and Ele is overperforming to some degree - so let's leave it to that and keep the veiled insults for our own mind ^^

To me this means absolutely nothing as Celestial stats have been removed from PvP. Before adding more confusion to this discussion, please stop using some random example in another game mode to justify a class being overperforming at the highest levels of play in PvP. The dynamics, the builds on the meta, and the overall gameplay is hugely different in-between PvP and WvW, if you must know, as you can build anything and be decent in WvW. Good luck getting higher than g1 with anything Harbinger other than its meta builds - and it's not overperforming on the same standard as Catalyst is. I'm questioning the pertinence of WvW comments in the PvP threads.

An elementalist should not be able to block projectiles for 20 seconds while not actively investing resources into that damage negation. This sentence prefaces the rest of my observations. Be it good or bad they still have ridiculous damage negation for the output they get from being able to swap elements, grant auras (on dodge, on profession skill, on weapon skill, combo fields and combo dashes) while still doing damage that rivals a left-alone Deadeye in DPS - while being tanky enough to survive having 2 or more people on them. I've seen entire matches carried by an elementalist staying on a node and simply kiting. No matter how you put it, if while you're kiting 2 people are hitting you in the current meta, EVERY. SINGLE. PROFESSION. drops. but the Catalyst. If I had to accuse one traitline to be overperforming right now, it would be the fire traitline for its passive condition damage increase, its passive generation of might or blind, it's nearly passive condition cleansing and its insane synergies with burning that's applied on each fire scepter autoattack and can stack up to five in intensity (berserker amulet - 1000 dmg per tick ; condition amulet - anywhere from 3k to 5k per dmg tick). Mind you scepter's autoattack in fire attunement are extremely short in animation and can stack 5 stacks in the first 3 seconds of entering combat. Air's scepter needs some retouching as currently it holds 3 instant casts that the elementalist can use while cc'd (may be 2 - someone fact check me here), 2 of them being instantaneous blinds and 1 of them being able to be a major dmg increase. The whole idea behind catalyst needs to be reworked in my opinion, as giving them access to 4 more combo fields while not removing anything from their gameplay is absolutely disgusting. I'm going to finish this ranty paragraph by adding that currently, elementalist is the only class that all 4 specs are played in PvP at rather high levels in every match. In all actuality I haven't seen a match in the past 100 I played that didn't have an elementalist. Apart from Spellbreaker, warrior's kind of a meme right now. Bladesworn? Lol. Specter? Wow if u have one you could win the lottery. A mesmer? Nearly a guaranteed loss unless that mesmer is actually a really good player. Most guardians are core or dragonhunters nowadays, with the very rare Willbender carrying their team. Firebrand? `Lol x 2. Let's not even address necromancer's state right now in PvP as even though your team can use one most of the time, Catalyst is just better in their situation. Ranger's making a comeback that I would also like addressed - I believe TB has been fair in their reviews of classes though so I'm gonna let that one be. Engis are kinda rare? So yes. Catalysts and Elemetanlist in general is at least Tier 2 in your system. Make core Ele tier 1 as it's more viable than any other core spec but thief.

Honestly, just nerf the shroud elite on core that makes each auto hit for a minimum of 3k, and upwards to 7k. Consistently XD

If you go by a few more years on the past it gets even worse.Phantasmal warlock use to it like a truck. We're talking like 8k+ on one bolt. Yes, in fact it does so well that only one player plays mesmer competitively. takes notes:: Do not use sarcasm in the forums. Honestly, Mesmer just sucks. And that's after putting 1k+ hours into learning it and having fun as a one-trick poney

Honestly, it's a situation of skill-cap. The whole Mesmer class (and its e-specs) are now just extremely difficult to play in PvP but once you got that machinery going, it goes amazingly well. And I'm saying that after playing power phantasm chronomancer.

It's just a SINGLE Weaver burst. As @DanAlcedo.3281 says, maybe the OP was cceed and he eat all the burst bu everything in the log is from a weaver even if i don't see the damages of "rapid fire" who kills the op.... Actually, OP is a Thief (you can see it on the death log on the side, that they died by a Weaver, and they got killed by one too - 8 ticks of Primordial stance with bleeding and burning as main conditions), and as an FYI, you can't see your own name on the team roster to the side screen. To the OP - You ate 8 ticks of Primordial Stance. Now, I'm no "pro", but 8 ticks of primordial stance asks for at least 8 seconds of in-combat damage. Let's assume half of that would be from down state. That means that for four seconds, you stood still and ate a whole lot of that skill you should now dodge because it is nearly the #1 OP skill in the game. The pulsing area around the Weaver - DO NOT APPROACH UNDER ANY CONDITION unless you have ways to mitigate it (dodge, block, blind). You also got hit by 2 Transmute Fire, which means that's 2 extra things you should have been aware of - especially as a Thief. You're unofficially the best at disengaging fights, and seeing the number of enemies at the midpoint, you should have rotated elsewhere. Let's assume you got CC'd for a whole 4 seconds - out of probably what was an Air 5 "Gale" (which is a 3 seconds knockdown, mind you). Unblockable, but huge wind up with an easy-to-dodge animation right before you get CC'd. As a Thief (I'll guess Core Thief by the death icons on the right), with a traditional build (SP or SD, with Shortbow), you have the escape potential, through Shadowstep, to escape that CC. Pair that with what people usually run; Agility Signet (a signet that, when activated, removes 3 conditions), and you get yourself out of most 3 conditions burst. I'll agree whole-heartedly that 5k damage per second for 4 seconds is really strong - especially with how ANet is currently addressing burst. But in that scenario, even with no cooldowns, you could've done a lot more than sit there and hope to keep the point contested against a Weaver - one of the best current 1v1ers in the game. Damage mitigation is one of the best tools Thief has access to due to ease-of-access dodges. You could've taken advantage of that!

That's probably due to the YEARS long complain about Mirage Cloak, which many consider too potent.That's but that's an Evasion not an invul. following this logic we can remove everything from anyone.¬ I could ask the same about guards, they have too much blocks! they dont have more evades/blocks/invulns then other classes¬ but more blocks with aegis and blue shields, its annoying and im too lazy to wait for it to wear off, remove it, nerf it! proven is bs, while fighting a condi mirage today, the rotation goes , invuln > evade > invuln > evade > reflect > long evade > evade > stealth > repeat (lets not forget blinds every now and then)all while being able to apply 20 stacks of confusion and even more bleeds with at least 12 stacks of torment. please tell me how this is not overpowered.Did you ever think about dodging when they went for their bIk BuRsT 2o CoNfUsIoN, 2o+ bLeEdS aNd i2 t0rMeNts? Jokes aside, what shadowpass commented as a build is actually just bad. Considering a decent player knows to cleanse, dodge, stunbreak, all that stuff, and also considering the fact a Mirage will usually not be able to cap fully through that much invulnerability uptime, you literally just have to... walk away from the node and wait for their "burst" to be used up to not die to their combo wombo (20 stacks of confsions means sc ambush + sc 3 + sc ambush + pistol 5, bleeds mean sc ambush + pistol 5 + pistol 4, torment means sc ambush only, really). Just dodge that, my man. Or stunbreak/dodge. That'll help you a crap ton! And to learn the counterplay, play a glassy version of the build - it's a good way to learn how to counter it while also getting better! http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAYtrlRwuYJMJmJWOXtPLA-z5YXGZmC9WBuOA All here for better overall PvP population instead of a few G3 heroes thinking they're the best because they can one-trick poney (right, shadowpass?). /coming from a multi-classer that learnt thief and mirage as first classes and can play all classes with a certainly decent level of success/

then im gonna ask you, what is the tradeoff to fb? everything needs a weakness to exploit.when I look at warrior for all the flaws it has it has a weaknesses, it doesnt have small cleanses, only shake it off full clear so it struggles against weakness ( whoops FB can spam it ). it also has big hits, rampage, gs charge,bullscharge,arcing. 1 hit, big impact. so it struggles against blinds and aegis ( whoops FB has alot of them and it vomits it in aoe )Why does FB get to hardcounter every build? you take zerker deadeye to burst it? spam projbloc domes.Warrior wants to ram you down? weakness,blind,aegis.Cmirage focuses you down and all ins you? pulsing resistance, projblock dome. The only weakness I can see to FB is lack of mobility, does it even have to move all that much? if you have 2 of them 1 on each node, and if you have coms you know when your oponents will be going so you can move in advance. Warrior has cleanse every 5 seconds on weapon-swap. That's stronger "small cleanses" than most other builds. Certainly stronger than FB. SeikeNz's explanation is pretty good. A team of 5 FBs will get easily rotated around, and struggle to produce the burst damage to ever kill anything. A team of 5 Heralds will struggle to sustain any fight longer than 10 seconds. When you combine them together they cover each other's weaknesses very well. Nevermind the fact that double-Herald has been meta for a year or more, even before nerfs to Mirage and Scourge which are their natural counters, and before anyone had ever heard of a Symbolbrand. FB doesn't really have anything to do with why double-Herald is a strong pick. It's because double-Herald has by far the best toolkit for a team on voice-comms to quickly move around the map, pick a target, teleport and 1-spike it. Thief can stick to a target just as well, but doesn't have the same damage output. Warriors, Holos, Soulbeasts, can produce the same damage pressure, but can't stick to a target as effectively. Heralds are also great at converting a 1/2 kill teamfight win in to a full team-wipe, by not allowing enemy to escape. A Symbolbrand is basically hard-countered by any ranged build. Be it a rifle Deadeye, longbow/axe Soulbeast, or condi Mirage. The Symbolbrand can force them off a point initially and spam blocks/reflects for ~10 seconds, but if the ranged plays smart and keeps poking, they will eventually win, because eventually the blocks and dodges will run out, and the Symbolbrand has no way of chasing and counter-pressuring, meaning the ranged can simply free-cast. The playstyle is, in many ways, similar to Reaper. You don't beat a Reaper by face-tanking its shroud. You kite for 10 seconds, let it waste all its cooldowns, and then its a free kill.Speaking as someone who has primarily played FB for the last ~6 months, those 3 ranged classes are the ones that I fear the most when I'm going in to a 1v1. Because, yeah, I can force them off the point initially, but in the long-game they will always win eventually. I would always much rather face a Holo or Reaper or Spellbreaker, who I can actually counter-pressure. The only player I have a 100% loss-rate against is Faeleth on deadeye. There are fights where my glass cannon power mesmer, attacks brand wor literarly 30s nonstop, they out heal block/evade/invuln all my damage, easly outheal it.dont know what ranged you mean to take them on, keep in mind that when you keep attacking him and only him for 10-15s, he brings vault to EVERY TEAMMATE in the area.With rev I agree, its super strong, and nerfing everything but the rev and FB is just gonna make us see them in every game.If there are 6 builds that are over the top and considered meta, and you nerf 3 or 4 of them, it solves nothing.Unless the 2 remaining builds can be hard countered it will revolve around those 2 only. I can honestly see 3 FB, 2 herald teams, or just 2 FB, 2herald and 1 mesmer just for stealth to just gut someone out of stealth. or mb thief to portal to obj, depending on maps.FB is in a same spot scourge was, it just makes other specs not be played, dont know what should be done about it but something should. No rush. Okay, you're conflating 2 issues here. One is Symbolbrand's 1v1 capability, what does it counter 1v1, what counters it. The other is FB's position in a 5-man team and a teamfight. In a 1v1 situation, I've already explained above. In a team situation, I agree, trying to pewpew isn't a solution. The solution is different. It is either to 1-pop the FB with your double-Herald (which, if you watch MATs, you will often see that the FB is the first one to go down, exactly like this), OR, you use superior mobility to outnumber the FB's team elsewhere on the map, and snowball, leaving FB uselessly running slowly between points (which, again, if you watch MATs you will often see exactly this). I don't disagree that FB needs tuning down, as does pretty much everything introduced since HoT. But you are exaggerating and being hyperbolic in some of your complaints. FB isn't a god-mode that counters everything, you can play smart and out-maneuver it. Imagine defending class stacking this much. When you're seeing class stacking to the degree you're seeing in in AT's something has gone incredibly wrong balance wise. When you start seeing multiple of the same specialization showing up and doing super well on a team and even winning a MAT balance of that specialization has officially reached a point of being indefensible. We aren't having problems with other things introduced since HoT. Herald IS a HoT Specialization. When it comes to PoF it's reached a point where it's mostly JUST firebrand at this point. You aren't seeing double mirage. You aren't seeing double spellbreakers. You aren't seeing double scourge. You aren't seeing double soulbeast. In fact, you aren't seeing any of them anymore. You're seeing people stack Firebrand and Heralds, occasionally a core necro, holosmith, and thief/daredevil and those aren't being stacked they're being slotted as the 5th into 2Firebrand+2Herald teams. Where am I defending class stacking? I even explicitly said that FB needs tuning down. I'm just debating the ridiculous hyperbole that it apparently counters EVERYTHING, when it obviously doesn't. If something is being double-picked for AT's, it probably means it is too strong. It doesn't mean it is god-mode. Although I do understand what you're saying, and I do agree with it, I think what others are trying to suggest is that Firebrand is the only class with that much diversity for being effective at its role. A great 1v1er and team fighter as Symbolbrand, great support (well, realistically, the only support) as Mender's Brand (eh, that just had a nice ring to it), it can be stacked and still be effective. Compare that to Mirage, (to a certain extent) Holo, Soulbeast, (Rene-what?), Scourge, basically any other PoF spec and it won't be outshone (excepted for mobility, but if you already have two nodes, that's the only thing you need to win the game). I do get what you mean though - it is in no way what Condition Mirage or Yolosmith used to be, ultimate god modes with basically a broken kit, but it's currently what needs to be toned down - Herald I do not think requires toning down as its synergy with any support realistically makes it worth playing because of the lack of buffs to other DPS/roamer specializations. Having diversity of builds is not a problem at all, it should be a target for every single profession. The fact that an elite-spec can be viably played as either a DPS or a bunker or a support is fine. The problem is when a single build can do everything at once.That is true, and I feel rather stupid for phrasing what I meant that way.Other classes require buffs to their kits to compare to Firebrand's, or Firebrand should be lowered to other classes' level. That's basically what I tried to say. Currently, it shuts down the diversity in other classes because of its high versatility and effectiveness, a bit like Mirage back in the day. I'm not saying gut it like Chronomancer, because that would be dumdumb. I am saying that the diversity it offers also shuts down more possible diversity elsewhere, if that makes any sense at all.

then im gonna ask you, what is the tradeoff to fb? everything needs a weakness to exploit.when I look at warrior for all the flaws it has it has a weaknesses, it doesnt have small cleanses, only shake it off full clear so it struggles against weakness ( whoops FB can spam it ). it also has big hits, rampage, gs charge,bullscharge,arcing. 1 hit, big impact. so it struggles against blinds and aegis ( whoops FB has alot of them and it vomits it in aoe )Why does FB get to hardcounter every build? you take zerker deadeye to burst it? spam projbloc domes.Warrior wants to ram you down? weakness,blind,aegis.Cmirage focuses you down and all ins you? pulsing resistance, projblock dome. The only weakness I can see to FB is lack of mobility, does it even have to move all that much? if you have 2 of them 1 on each node, and if you have coms you know when your oponents will be going so you can move in advance. Warrior has cleanse every 5 seconds on weapon-swap. That's stronger "small cleanses" than most other builds. Certainly stronger than FB. SeikeNz's explanation is pretty good. A team of 5 FBs will get easily rotated around, and struggle to produce the burst damage to ever kill anything. A team of 5 Heralds will struggle to sustain any fight longer than 10 seconds. When you combine them together they cover each other's weaknesses very well. Nevermind the fact that double-Herald has been meta for a year or more, even before nerfs to Mirage and Scourge which are their natural counters, and before anyone had ever heard of a Symbolbrand. FB doesn't really have anything to do with why double-Herald is a strong pick. It's because double-Herald has by far the best toolkit for a team on voice-comms to quickly move around the map, pick a target, teleport and 1-spike it. Thief can stick to a target just as well, but doesn't have the same damage output. Warriors, Holos, Soulbeasts, can produce the same damage pressure, but can't stick to a target as effectively. Heralds are also great at converting a 1/2 kill teamfight win in to a full team-wipe, by not allowing enemy to escape. A Symbolbrand is basically hard-countered by any ranged build. Be it a rifle Deadeye, longbow/axe Soulbeast, or condi Mirage. The Symbolbrand can force them off a point initially and spam blocks/reflects for ~10 seconds, but if the ranged plays smart and keeps poking, they will eventually win, because eventually the blocks and dodges will run out, and the Symbolbrand has no way of chasing and counter-pressuring, meaning the ranged can simply free-cast. The playstyle is, in many ways, similar to Reaper. You don't beat a Reaper by face-tanking its shroud. You kite for 10 seconds, let it waste all its cooldowns, and then its a free kill.Speaking as someone who has primarily played FB for the last ~6 months, those 3 ranged classes are the ones that I fear the most when I'm going in to a 1v1. Because, yeah, I can force them off the point initially, but in the long-game they will always win eventually. I would always much rather face a Holo or Reaper or Spellbreaker, who I can actually counter-pressure. The only player I have a 100% loss-rate against is Faeleth on deadeye. There are fights where my glass cannon power mesmer, attacks brand wor literarly 30s nonstop, they out heal block/evade/invuln all my damage, easly outheal it.dont know what ranged you mean to take them on, keep in mind that when you keep attacking him and only him for 10-15s, he brings vault to EVERY TEAMMATE in the area.With rev I agree, its super strong, and nerfing everything but the rev and FB is just gonna make us see them in every game.If there are 6 builds that are over the top and considered meta, and you nerf 3 or 4 of them, it solves nothing.Unless the 2 remaining builds can be hard countered it will revolve around those 2 only. I can honestly see 3 FB, 2 herald teams, or just 2 FB, 2herald and 1 mesmer just for stealth to just gut someone out of stealth. or mb thief to portal to obj, depending on maps.FB is in a same spot scourge was, it just makes other specs not be played, dont know what should be done about it but something should. No rush. Okay, you're conflating 2 issues here. One is Symbolbrand's 1v1 capability, what does it counter 1v1, what counters it. The other is FB's position in a 5-man team and a teamfight. In a 1v1 situation, I've already explained above. In a team situation, I agree, trying to pewpew isn't a solution. The solution is different. It is either to 1-pop the FB with your double-Herald (which, if you watch MATs, you will often see that the FB is the first one to go down, exactly like this), OR, you use superior mobility to outnumber the FB's team elsewhere on the map, and snowball, leaving FB uselessly running slowly between points (which, again, if you watch MATs you will often see exactly this). I don't disagree that FB needs tuning down, as does pretty much everything introduced since HoT. But you are exaggerating and being hyperbolic in some of your complaints. FB isn't a god-mode that counters everything, you can play smart and out-maneuver it. Imagine defending class stacking this much. When you're seeing class stacking to the degree you're seeing in in AT's something has gone incredibly wrong balance wise. When you start seeing multiple of the same specialization showing up and doing super well on a team and even winning a MAT balance of that specialization has officially reached a point of being indefensible. We aren't having problems with other things introduced since HoT. Herald IS a HoT Specialization. When it comes to PoF it's reached a point where it's mostly JUST firebrand at this point. You aren't seeing double mirage. You aren't seeing double spellbreakers. You aren't seeing double scourge. You aren't seeing double soulbeast. In fact, you aren't seeing any of them anymore. You're seeing people stack Firebrand and Heralds, occasionally a core necro, holosmith, and thief/daredevil and those aren't being stacked they're being slotted as the 5th into 2Firebrand+2Herald teams. Where am I defending class stacking? I even explicitly said that FB needs tuning down. I'm just debating the ridiculous hyperbole that it apparently counters EVERYTHING, when it obviously doesn't. If something is being double-picked for AT's, it probably means it is too strong. It doesn't mean it is god-mode.Although I do understand what you're saying, and I do agree with it, I think what others are trying to suggest is that Firebrand is the only class with that much diversity for being effective at its role. A great 1v1er and team fighter as Symbolbrand, great support (well, realistically, the only support) as Mender's Brand (eh, that just had a nice ring to it), it can be stacked and still be effective. Compare that to Mirage, (to a certain extent) Holo, Soulbeast, (Rene-what?), Scourge, basically any other PoF spec and it won't be outshone (excepted for mobility, but if you already have two nodes, that's the only thing you need to win the game). I do get what you mean though - it is in no way what Condition Mirage or Yolosmith used to be, ultimate god modes with basically a broken kit, but it's currently what needs to be toned down - Herald I do not think requires toning down as its synergy with any support realistically makes it worth playing because of the lack of buffs to other DPS/roamer specializations.

Because mesmer is generally unfun to fight with its ability stealth, break targets, clones + distort, and general kitten-wittery. With engineer, most of the attacks are highly telegraphed, so even if you think they're OP, at least you know what happened. Seems like someone didn't want to learn how to fight against Mesmers when they actually were overperforming and broken XDMeanwhile, Warrior simply stomps all its 1v1s while having more passive sustain than any other class in minor traits without any trade-offs. Go figure.