Anomaly.7612

I think Anet needs to decide which classes/builds are meant for sustain and which are meant for burst and balance around that. As it stands now classes that have builds that are meant to be bursty i.e (but not limited to of course) like Mesmer, Thief, Ranger, have been nerfed to the point that their burst just tickles. I've always thought that condi is meant to counter bunker and power counters condi and bunker counters power since they have high armor/defensives. It seems to me that bunker just counters mostly everything, survives the teamfight and helps carry the momentum of a teamfight win so more people play bunker builds that have a lot of CC to stop other bunkers from using their defensives to sustain which just turns into a pillow fight in a kiddie pool full of mayonnaise that makes you slip and fall down every few seconds. I honestly think if we had a 5v5 premade queue where people coordinate burst, defensives and CC like in WoW arena this wouldn't be as much of an issue but when you're not on comms or have any kind of ping system other than pressing T and PvE'ing into an enemy while hoping others follow along, there's gonna be some issues. Imagine if we had a ping like in FFXIV that was a 5 second countdown on a target to coordinate burst better. That'd be pretty cool.

Let's be honest here, Teapot missed the mark here as to 1) why thief would still get picked in ATs, 2) why people are angry at these nerfs. Yeah that clip came off pretty patronizing tbh and seemed like he's just one of the many who hates the class and was glad to see its one strength toned down. Did he mock engineers? I didn't see the stream but I'm guessing not because he didn't take the time to clip and post it.

But the whole point of initiative is there are no CD's on weapon abilities (except sneak attacks like backstab). And the whole point of revenant energy system was 0 cd's on utility skills and low cds on weapon skills.. oh wait. None of it is true anymore. Your point? Thief has been out for 8 years and revenant was the most recently released class. All Rev weapon skills have CD's. It's silly to change the core of what makes a class's identity all because they can't actually balance. Throwing a CD on one ability is just lazy design when it doesn't follow the pattern of everything else with the class. So yeah.... It'll probably happen. Compare current rev to release one and you see how much he was changed by cd's being increased to match those of other classes while still costing energy for some reason (wep skills used energy as tradeoff for the low cds) or the slapped cds on utility skills - originally only Glint had those due to her unique elite desing with facets.So as you see they went the cheap route with rev changed the design completely and its nothing like it was originally sold as to me. Also rev was released in 2015, thats not recent at all.I said it was the most recently released. As in the last. Anyways, I also think it's lazy to backtrack on Rev design by doing that but we're talking about Anet so...shrug

But the whole point of initiative is there are no CD's on weapon abilities (except sneak attacks like backstab). And the whole point of revenant energy system was 0 cd's on utility skills and low cds on weapon skills.. oh wait. None of it is true anymore. Your point?Thief has been out for 8 years and revenant was the most recently released class. All Rev weapon skills have CD's. It's silly to change the core of what makes a class's identity all because they can't actually balance. Throwing a CD on one ability is just lazy design when it doesn't follow the pattern of everything else with the class. So yeah.... It'll probably happen.

But the whole point of initiative is there are no CD's on weapon abilities (except sneak attacks like backstab).

builds like healbreaker should not be viable to play in this game, they add no fun at all - in fact they actively reduce fun I feel the same way because this game isn't meant to have a holy trinity and healbreaker was kinda imposing the idea that a build can do nothing but support and win a match. Unless Anet WANTS to propose a holy trinity style of gameplay in which case they need to divvy out those roles to the respective classes that do it well and tone down healing on all other classes. But I don't think that's their intent.

So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs You can buff Firebrand a little and maybe power core for all I care. But burn guard is way too effective while being very easy to play. As I said, i have no problems with them as I know how to counter them, but they are very present in many games. I have seen scrappers, scourge MM necros, reapers, core bunker guards, condi thieves, core warrior, berserker, different rangers, condi mirages, weaver and tempest. Of course, still many core necs and DHs, but... ... and me as power chrono. :tongue: Now that there are fewer thieves, I can stay on that build more often and let those slow guards explode. Around 1550 with only playing memes. Okay, you SEEING something means absolutely nothing. I see a lot of people running things that don't work or aren't good, doesn't mean they're viable. Scrapper is straight outclassed by Holo, scourge MM is a meme and is a constant source of mockery from EU players that NA struggles against it. Core warrior isn't killing anything with even a tiny amount of consistent cleanse, and Berserker is bad and still bad beyond meming people who panic and can't dodge obvious CC. Condi mirage might make a come back. Weaver can't do anything with a support on the enemy team. Core necro is a meat sponge that can't touch a team with cleanse support and trapper DH is the last viable guardian build. Power chrono is a glass cannon that dies to anything that looks at it hard enough and can dodge telegraphed burst and is gonna really become useless if power Shiro starts another reign of terror. The fact you think burn DH is an issue speaks a lot and not in a good way. Again, most of the things you listed aren't viable or just straight up outclassed by the main build the class uses. Shifting the main thing you see on a match also doesn't change the fact that what the classes can run that's viable is extremely limited. Having 1-2 builds even worth mentioning, much less actually using, means we've got no build diversity. It was on EU. MM scourge did quite well, while being as slow as it is. My power chrono destroyed dual burn DH teams easily, I didn't even die once in those games. And I am not great with that build. I did not see power rev indeed, but it is less of a hard counter to power mes than thief was (is?), so I will keep an eye on that. I only played like 4-5 games since yesterday's patch. And only around P1. In higher tiers, people will of course know how to counter a power chrono properly. €: I am not saying all these builds are viable. But the meta seems shaken up a little and I will not judge before one or two weeks came in. Then maybe we can talk about guard, maybe necro or whatever comes up. If you can destroy DH with power mesmer, how can you reasonably say it's way too effective for how easy it is to play? How hard a build is doesn't mean it should have any standard of viability attached to it, even if you literally just auto attack. This build is make or break by trapper runes and Dragon's Maw, remove either of those things or just dodge Dragon's Maw and you've got a build that can't hope to do anything but F1 and that's also severely jeopardizing their effectiveness even if it lands. Once it's gone, guardian is without any viable builds left baring some new discovery or such a serious shakeup in the meta that an old build comes back. I seriously doubt much will change. If power thief were to be out then power Shiro will likely fill in its place again, even if it is a compromise on mobility in exchange for better team-fighting capabilities. This could let condi mirage come back and keep it in check but I doubt it. I agree the meta could be shaken up a bit, but I don't see it being so much so that Berserker, non holo engis, non tempest ele's, etc etc will be able to come back. One or two things might shift, but we'll still be in a stagnant state of little build variety. Oh how I remember the days when all the competitive thieves rerolled power Rev. People on the receiving end hated it even more and begged for thief to be good again. rocks back and forth in old squeaky chair Yeah.... Those were the days.

I mean after they released an utterly disastrous february patch and, instead of reverting it like good developers would, tripled down on it, yeah, I think theyd have to land a flawless patch, because otherwise its just a reminder that were still playing a much worse game than at the start of the year. Or they could you know... Have a public test realm for their patches and get data and feedback from players before a patch lands so they'll have an idea of how it'll affect their game and make tweaks accordingly? No. Too much work.

All of this is true but there is one big issue, the entire class and all of its elite specs were balanced around the mobility of IA. I am fine with them nerfing it but i am not fine with just leaving the rest of the class as is, if their intent is to move thief away from a pure decap bot then they have to buff/rework the rest of the class to be able to actually fight and not just +1 players who are half dead. P much. All this will do is make a match more focused on team fights. Decapping will take longer and have less value. Decapping a side node as a thief had high value because one could decap and return to the mid fight quickly enough that the lack of the thieve's presence for that short time didn't really matter. Well now that length of time is greater meaning the thieve's team will be possibly outnumbered in mid for longer causing a higher chance to lose the teamfight giving two options: Full cap far and possibly duel an enemy going from mid to far and leave home to be contested by rezzers to fight the enemy(ies) who went mid to home after they won it and possibly die again to the enemy's increased momentum. Or Leave it decapped since realistically dueling an enemy would take so long that you'd just get +1'd anyways and die by the time you get the first enemy downed (happened to me many times), and just go back home to help +1 your team's rezzers, get a kill and help your team possibly snowball that momentum into mid and hopefully win the mid fight due to possibly outnumbering them due to them having rezzers now. Travel time is even longer now due to the ini change and +1'ing your team at home might not be fast enough to contest and win the point which will just result in some mouth breather on your team saying "teef decap far!!1!1?!" Acting like they're your mom telling you to do your chores and backseat gaming to the point that you AFK on roads stunned in disbelief that all your life choices have resulted in this very moment and the last thing you can do to attempt turning your life around is buying a banana stand but all you can think of while selling children at the local farmer's market frozen chocolate covered bananas on a stick is bitter resentment that Anet failed you in poorly designing your main so you absent mindedly leave the money in the stand, it gets stolen, and now you're left with nothing but sadness and hatred for a company that makes pennies selling pixelated chairs in a game that turned its back on you. Teef life rough.

Big true. As well as the ability to stay in stealth long enough that clones stand there like a confused John Travolta and become useless.

yeah but having literally 5k range from mobility and able to get to the other side of the map in less than 10 seconds while having stealth for about a min permanently AND gatekeeping squishy sidenoders... thats too much. Its a hit and run class which should be easy to kill but it has damage reduction traits which contradicts it, both its mobility AND damage reduction shouldve been nerfed so they done 50% of it. Thief was not only gatekeeping many sidenoders it did in general gatekeeping many more squisher buildsThe high mobility with the stealth and still. Decent dmg on SA you had always the chance to pick up some squishy in a fight.It was not rly punishable thx to its high survivalability, but punished most other roamer builds Yeah thats why im not entirely happy with the thief nerfs, they took some mobility away which is really good but they didnt touch SA or the damage reduction traits in DD which were the main source of it surviving. Hopefully something will be done about it soon I'm actually convinced you won't be happy until Thief is literally unplayable. No, they can't go 2700 range with just two IA's. Why? It has 900 range with (prepatch) 6 ini. Thief has BASE 12 ini but since Trickery is mandatory it gets +3 for a max of 15. 900+900=1800 for 12 ini with 3 ini left forcing the thief to wait a few seconds to do another one which would THEN be a total of 2700 range. Your calculation is hyperbolic and not in a satirical manner for comedic effect (unless that's actually your intention then well done) and serves only as propoganda to get thief nerfed into oblivion and I'm guessing by your pink quaggan icon you play Mesmer which makes since because thief counters mesmers due simply to the fact that thieves can stealth and render clones useless. I see your scheme. >: l Lol but for real you're just wrong from a numerical standpoint and even moreso now that the cost was increased to 8 so it can only be used once WITHOUT waiting for ini regen and all of these hypothetical scenarios do NOT factor in if the thief has used any initiative for engaging/bursting at all which is only likely part of the time while roaming solo in between points while not using any initiative for stealth access. You even teef, broh?

So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs see how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others!so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS!I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! Players went on and on about powercreep when really only a few outliers needed toned down. Finally after listening to players complain for yrs they did the badly implemented de-powercreep patch which now in every poll comparing pre vs post feb patch more players preferred pre patch.I get wanting things toned down but u will eventually reach a point where further nerfs across the board will result in removing the fun aspect of classes and build deversity aswell, there's a reason gw2 pvp population is in such a dire state compared to yrs before. If a games better balanced but un fun or a blast to play but less balanced what game are u gonna play?For real though. People play the shit out of LoL that has a MUCH lower TTK currently. Or WoW with a lower TTK. Even FFXIV PvP (which most people who play XIV don't do it for the PvP) in its current state is lower and they have dedicated healers. Gw2 has boomercapable PvP at least. Maybe that's their target market? xD

I come from game where thief win 20: 0 is good valid normal sate .. And here thief is slow shadow of what it should be .. but some people cry anyway ,, or just worried to burst them class by nerf other ??? Omg it makes me so happy you posted a Savix video. Best WoW PvP content creator out there. For real though, if Thief was anything like a sub rogue that has multiple HARD CC's like back to back basi venoms (cheap shot from stealth), a 5 second stun (kidney shot), a LONG incapacitate (blind), and if Shadow shot had the damage and spammability of Shadowstrike you'd have people coming to the forums with pages of signatures and petitions to get the class completely removed from the game lol. GW2's take on the rogue/assassin trope is such a pale shadow of what every other MMO does: Slippery, speedy, stealthy, GREAT 1v1 potential, locks down an enemy with CC and high burst. Gw2 PvP only takes the slippery, speedy and stealthy and throws the rest in the bin unless the target is < or = to 20% HP and only then does a Thief shine all because Heatseeker and superior sigil of exploitation but literally any class can +1 and burst someone at 20% for the kill.

Lol "What is 'Executioner and Heatseeker at 20% HP on Squishies,' Trebek?" Nice try. And no, stealth doesn't need to be an "Oh shit!" Button or have a cooldown. Revealed exists.

Mmm, pain. mmm. Delicious. Hope y'all want some non shortbow thieves to spice up your ratings. Yea guys, enjoy your non-shortbow thieves in your teams. Your match will be a 4v5 and you'll auto lose with a thief on your side, good job anet.It's interesting to me how out of all the classes people just want to see thieves hurt. Thief has been nerfed over and over again since beta to be where we are now and people still cry for more nerfs. Some things never change. I think people will hate thief until they give it the mirage treatment. DD now has one dodge. Stealth removed entirely from the class because other classes stole it all (lol). Backstab changed to backrub where you give your opponent a boon. Black Powder changed to White Powder now gives true sight, vigor and swiftness to anyone standing in except the thief so people can see other stealthed enemies. All daggers changed to different lutes. Skills have been changed to notes to play songs that buff allies. Steal changed to Inspire and temporarily increases the AoE of their songs so thief can... Steal... The show. The word Thief has now been changed to Bard for all purposes. (Inb4 "Nerf bard their back rub is creepy and gives Biden vibes)

Name checks out.

Gotta look at the bright side! At least they didn't impose a 300 second recharge timer on it! Oh that be ok cuz just be a placeholder till it gets redesigned 10 month later and counting lol. Honestly from a business standpoint I find it hard to believe ncsoft could be anything but displeased with anets performance. Its kinda ncsoft fault tho as if they wanted gw2 to have any kinda future they really shoulda laid off the whole company and either closed anet or completely re-staffed it cuz these dev seriously have absolutely no clue or direction on how to grow this game, my guys is the devs that did are long gone at this point. I hate to say anyone should lose their jobs but strictly from business perspective these devs at anet are not producing what it takes, not even close.Ehhh, NCSoft doesn't care as long as new gemstore chairs, mount skins, outfits and gliders are being sold. The old crew had their chance to make money off of PvP like they tried to do in vanilla/HoT but they shot themselves in the foot when they pulled out of ESL prematurely instead of just balancing PvP back then and figuring out how to make it interesting to watch. (:::::::::::::::____LOADING__)[Tip: boxing matches with marshmallows aren't interesting to watch or play]

Lol just make players solve a captcha when queue'ing. xD

All while the Acro traitline is still considered an untouchable and nothing was done to Necros. Anet's favored class just like mages in WoW for so long. Silly shit.

Dude all you do is complain about Thief on the forums while using the Thief icon. What Thief hurt you? Jfc.

No changes in PvP to Necros at all. No Lich auto nerfs. Nothing done for mesmers at all. No nerfs to rangers spamming immob at all. But KITTEN Thief mobility amirite?! Literally the only strength the class had left. Another joke patch. Bots are still going to be a problem.

You realize this is the entire playstyle of Thief, right? Thief isn't a bruiser meant to stand there in a fight for long. They get in, do damage and get out. Now that's even harder. Basically just dunked on the basic Thief playstyle. Anet has zero clue what they want to do with Thief. I'm sick of this shit. I was already taking a break from the game and now I'm done. All while Necro lich form saw no changes at all. What a joke.

Zoo scourge necro is just awful. I just hate any build in general that can basically AFK and passively radiate damage. That should never be ok.

All thief would need for team play is to rework the acrobatics traitline that hasn't seen play in years. Literally an entire traitline that's just been KIA for a while now. That would give a sword/dagger bruiser build more capability and teamfight potential.